WHOBO 3!! 3/18-20/2011!! Livestream: http://brawlstream.vgbootcamp.com/

[AllyKnight]

lmao ^.

We need them results

 

[Smoom77]

1. Ally
2. Razer
3. Dojo
4. ADHD
5. Atomsk
5. Vinnie
7. Shugo
7. Will
9. Tyrant
9. Trela
9. Inui
9. Logic
13. Smoom
13. MVD
13. Illmatic
13. RedHalberd

1. Ally Dojo
2. Razer Gnes
3. Shugo ADHD

I fixed 9th place and added on 13tg

 

[ADHD]

Who got the most *****es at the rave?

I say Will or Lee since they are experienced with those ****s.

None other than ur boy poltergust.

 

[AllyKnight]

Redhalberd got 13th

 

[BioDG]

A series of unfortunate events made this one terrible weekend for me, but the tourney itself ran pretty well. I enjoyed it and I enjoyed chillin with all the players who were housed at Sync's.

I agree with everyone about that Ally vs. Trela set.

 

[BSP]

What the...

This live thing is pretty cool. Is this some new feature or something?

 

[AllyKnight]

You can thanks Trela and Me for sweating our balls off LOL

 

[Zigsta]

LMAO @ Polt raving

ADHD, Stitch is amazing.

 

[Isatis]

Was the Ally vs. Trela set streamed? Did any of you two save the replays?

Yes, I implemented the live topic stuff btw

 

[AllyKnight]

I saved all the replays I played on that wii, it's ESAM's

 

[Keitaro]

Was the Ally vs. Trela set streamed? Did any of you two save the replays?

Yes, I implemented the live topic stuff btw

This live topic thing where the new posts just appear is awesome!! Is this for every thread on smashboards or specific ones?

 

[Isatis]

Nice

When I get the replays that'll hopefully be the first thing to go up

Yeah, it's for all threads that have posts newer than 5 min or active. On any threads that have posts older than 5 min, it doesn't work

 

[BSP]

All hail Bionic, this thing is legit.

I watched the stream. My only complaint is that Turaz and BSL were playing on it...like they do every tournament lol, come on guys!

Can we see some results?

 

[Zigsta]

Stop asking for results. Xyro doesn't care.

 

[AllyKnight]

We need results Zigsta, Xyro!

 

[Tesh]

I wouldn't expect official results until tomorrow, Xyro still working hard after all. I think if u ask specifics, people can give you an idea of how people placed though.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

So, Polt and I are beast.

 

[Keitaro]

leffen no one cares about you.

We need a result thread. XYRO WHERE YOU AT?

Lmao!! I'll forever love you Ally for continually doing this

 

[z00ted]

im going to be dissapointed if alot of matches aren't uploaded. noone was saving replays.

Dakpo I know for sure that my set vs Will and RedHalberd were saved, if you could upload it I would greatly appreciate it.

Also 10 minute timer is not going to do ANYTHING. This is coming from the guy who took MJG/Ensis to timer with two stocks left multiple times at this tournament.

12 minutes.. maybe.

 

[AllyKnight]

So, Polt and I are beast.

Yoshi's mad gay. If it was You + not a yoshi, we'd have such a bigger chance least I didnt lose Low tier singles

 

[Smoom77]

Yeah...we just posted top 16, who else do you want?

 

[Gamegenie222]

The whole tourney results.

 

[Smoom77]

Something reasonable please? Only Xyro has the results.

 

[Tesh]

im going to be dissapointed if alot of matches aren't uploaded. noone was saving replays.

Dakpo I know for sure that my set vs Will and RedHalberd were saved, if you could upload it I would greatly appreciate it.

Also 10 minute timer is not going to do ANYTHING. This is coming from the guy who took MJG/Ensis to timer with two stocks left multiple times at this tournament.

12 minutes.. maybe.

THIS

I and many others will still be campy regardless of the timer. Longer timer just means longer tournament.

We should play 1 stock matches with food on.

 

[RT]

The whole tourney results.

Only Xyro has those, wait until late today/tomorrow/whenever he feels like putting them up.

 

[Orion*]

Honestly, it's this type of mentality that is ruining what little competitive value this game has. It's this type of mentality that has this whole thread in an uproar against what the BBR is doing. It's this kind of mentality that was prevalent in the BBR when I was a member.

You guys always try to boil the game down to situational solutions to these near broken strategies. These solutions don't deepen gameplay, they only make things centralized and shallow.

^^^^^

Hugs da bess?

 

[Mekos]

hope they put the matches up on youtube

What did Esam get? I don't see him on those lists!!

 

[gunterrsmash01]

I think me and halberds set was replay saved. It was on the same wii as..... razer and adhd i think.

 

[AllyKnight]

Esam got like 25th

 

[Mekos]

!!? Noooooooo! That darn Rave!!

 

[Tesh]

I won't be able to upload anything from TV 7 any time soon. I saw MVD and Neon had some stuff saved there.

 

[Mekos]

lol at yall going to a rave.. Eh yo at genesis 2 we need to all go somewhere!

 

[DMG]

I have to agree with Rich here. Its a stupid rule and shouldn't be allowed. It doesn't make sense for there to be no LGL for everyone but MK, when some characters are able to safely plank(GnW, DK, ect.) Will even said on the livestream "I wanted to say I did this to show people how gay and stupid this rule is."

I don't think you need one on every single character in the game. The problem is that characters that aren't technically "broken" at planking still get strong advantages, and people would rather see gay things occur onstage instead of dealing with the edge. Infinites onstage, chain grabs, etc compared to drop down Upb/etc.

Read the 3rd sentence. Please read my whole post before responding to it.


To me, the whole LGL means stifling character progress. I'd rather innocent characters not be negatively affected. Of course with characters being able to do it, as long as the tactics are beatable, countermeasures will be developed.

The game frankly will die out either way. Think about it like this:

1. If you run a **** ton of Nationals without a LGL, you'd basically see MK dominate the game in a gross manner. SiiS x a thousand basically. It's literally no underestimation to say that the game is bad without some kind of limits out there.

2. If you put one on just MK, but not anyone else, you're gonna get exactly what happened. Specific matchups/stages/combos that... yes they are gay but people will debate all day whether you should allow it or not. Yes, you can switch characters or stages to deal with it, but that feeds itself into a cycle of "Well just pick MK anyways", which is basically the same thing.

3. If you put one on everyone in the cast, you limit legitimate ledge play in the game for the sake of a few problem/potential problem characters. Olimar has to worry about how many times he can grab the edge, because of a-hole characters around him.

I can't believe people still play Brawl for fun.

How about, rather than *****ing about every single part of the game (stages, Meta Knight, camping, planking, scrooging, etc...) you either:

a) Use a character who can abuse said tactic

or

b) Don't play

Oh, and just thought I should bring up the irony (if it hasn't already been brought up) of an Olimar main complaining about gay tactics.

The sad thing, as I pointed out earlier, is that regardless of what you do you will encourage a cycle of meta CPing that leads to MK being the best choice anyways. Ok, DK vs Olimar might not be as bad of a MU anymore if you put on a LGL for DK (remember potentially... because this is still very hazy atm for a lot of characters.), but it won't make the game any better. Like you could still say "Well why deal with any BS when I can go MK/better character" and this cycle or logical flowchart is killing the game.

wow lmao, are people really discussing this?

yea will was not at fault cause he didnt break the rules

but this is not about what rich said to will

or whether or not what will did was right.

the problem is the stupid *** ruleset, and the braindead people whoever created that ruleset.

this cannot happen again.

or brawl will die very very soon.
the game is already defensive enough, why the **** would you allow everyone but mk infinite planking options?

there are some characters that by their design, cannot handle planking.

so if this stupid ruleset stands, some tiers, as well as MU's, need to be changed immediately.

Some characters are so bad against planking, that even very BAD plankers can get away with it. You ever seen Ganondorf vs CF where CF grabs the edge a **** ton?

Does this inherently mean you should put a LGL on the entire cast? No. Frankly, I don't think people are addressing the planking issue correctly. Instead of asking who a LGL needs apply to, how big it needs to be, etc we need to brainstorm and see if there is ANYTHING else out there that we can use besides a LGL that will do the job better. Because lets be honest, the LGL as a rule is very broad when it comes to dealing with a VERY specific gameplay issue done with VERY specific executions and inputs. AKA, a LGL is a blanket rule.

If we can't find a better alternative, then yes we will have to suck it up and probably have to accept a wide LGL over the horrible alternatives.

Jigglypuff can also plank at Meta Knight's level in the majority of match-ups.

I personally think that every character excluding Diddy Kong should be banned.

The **** are you talking about? No one is even close to complaining about Jiggs. But you know what, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if even tethers were gonna come into questions. People hate the idea of planking, regardless of how strong it is, and it's a shame because that probably tends to cloud judgment over what should be done in each case/what needs to be done overall.

well it might bring out full potential in certain characters, but it also degrades/makes it nearly impossible for others. There should be a LGL for all characters, cuz not only MK can plank.

The real question is how far gameplay DOES degenerate due to this. DK planking for example: it may be strong against some members of the cast. How many members of the cast does it affect, on what stages, what members specifically (what tier/strength), etc. If his planking completely ***** Olimar, Pikachu, Marth, and Wario, but is just average against most other characters, that would certainly be acceptable for competitive play. Yes it's very gay, but what isn't in Brawl?

People are biased against ledge play because of that: involving the ledge. I'm not gonna defend it like Chibo over there. That's not my job or my passion. But I do think it's a bit of a double standard we have when ledge play is compared to onstage tactics.

Well I've had some time to calm down, so I wanna say a few things then leave this alone:

-I apologize to Will and everyone else for the things I said after the match and on the livestream. Will and I talked and we are cool. It's very, very hard for me to not be mad at him, because let's be honest: any one of you would be mad too if you had a legit chance of placing high in tourney, spending 300 bucks to do so, then have someone plank you that hard (especially after you 3 stocked them the previous game lolol). But as ******** as it was, my displaced anger should have gone towards the situation, not Will.

Xyro just approached me a few minutes ago and apologized profusely for what happened, and also informed me he would be enforcing a LGL at all future tournaments.

I'm more sad than anything right now, but ultimately something good came out of this, and if I had to be the one to suffer for it then so be it.

I'm sorry for anything rude I said to Xyro/Will/anyone else in this discussion. I just hope you all at least understand my frustration with what happened.

Yeah Rich it was fine. You apologized literally like 10 seconds after the rant to Will, and that was a big step forward at such a soon time. I respect Will for not rubbing this in your face or **** talking you about this, and I respect you more for apologizing to him on the spot and getting to the "calm point" fairly quickly. End of the day, I have a lot of respect for both of you, and even Allan for talking to you about it and coming together with something.

The funny thing is that all of the problems in brawl tend to stem from the mindset of the players rather than the game itself. You can play super gay in virtually any game where you compete against another player. The problem is that we still have this "Win at all costs" mentality where we are willing to make the game as boring as possible for the sake of winning a match.

You can't make a rule in a fighting game to stop people from playing super gay, that comes down to the player more than anything else. I totally understand why Rich was pissed. I would be pissed as well if I paid all of that cash for a super fun tournament only to be ledge camped to death. If Brawl dies (Which I do not think will happen anytime soon) it will be solely because of the anti-fun mentalities of so many brawl players.

That is why I personally love the LA scene. Are we the best? No. But we play some damn good matches and we do not gay each other to death on a regular basis solely to win. The rest of the competitive community at a higher level needs to adopt a similar mindset.

If you are not gonna play for fun why bother playing?

Well you know what? Brawl IS gay. High level play is a lot of gay stuff. Ally vs M2K, what do you want? Super rushdown instead of ******** shuttle loop frame traps or Snake Dthrow techchase guarantee punishes? Playing NOT gay is basically not playing the best you could. Our mindset for Brawl is to play gay, because that's what the game favors naturally. You'd be lying if you said otherwise, and most top players FULLY accept that Brawl is gay. Hell, a lot of top players EMBRACE that Brawl is gay and make it a point to go as far as possible.

Redhalberd vs Gnes. Game 3 on Brinstar. Halberd gets the lead and runs away. Now maybe Red could have rushed him down and won, maybe not. Who knows. But whats obvious? Running away and timing out Gnes was hands down the SMARTEST thing he could have done that match. It also happened to be the gayest thing he could have done. Was it sheer coincidence that the two seem related? No. It's how things are. The game allows gay things... it encourages gay things. To say that players are taking things too far, or that it is our fault for doing these things and killing the game, when the game itself is like this before we even touch it... well that's ignorant frankly.

To be fair, a lot of players ARE thinking about quitting because Brawl isn't fun to them anymore. Despite people like Ally who will keep winning money for basically forever if they keep playing, a lot of people will strongly consider not playing Brawl even if they have money/time for it if it's not fun. But still, this is BRAWL. This was to be expected of the game. Disheartening the soul and what not.

lol @ scrubs that whine about planking

jus get bettar

It's a bit more complicated than that, and I know you know that, but I'm not gonna get into it right here right now. Some other thread, some other time, a more indepth discussion will be had.

i've already dealt with this bull**** in grand finals in mid tier singles.

i got lucky and counterpicked stages that Pit couldn't plank on and ended up beating Esca game 5 because he made a mistake.

Xyro, for the 28th time - LGL please.

Also Grim Tuesday you are basically stating that every character should have a secondary, simply because some characters can beat almost half of the cast without an LGL. (See Pit in Japan).

Will just gave us a prime example of how ******** a tournament without an LGL can be in America.

Not every character should have a secondary. You know that, and are overexaggerating the "secondary effect" that would come into play from a strong tactic that changes MU's like planking. You could say "MK makes every character look into a secondary" or "this hard MU makes this character look into a secondary" and go down the list finding stuff for everyone in that regard.

People seem to forget that the LGL does not gonna mean the complete end of timeouts. Someone said Redhalberd timed out someone with like 28 LGs?

But with that aside, people just want to keep banning stuff in hopes to make the game... more fun? Less gay? More fair? then more than just DK planking rofl. With Unwinnable matchups and we just tell the people who main characters who get ****ed by 0-deaths/locks, "pick up a 2ndary for said matchup."
So then, why not have an olimar have a pocket DDD for DK? Same **** to me. Both character specific 0-deaths and planking timeouts are equally as gay to me, and both can be remedied by one thing, switching characters.

In brawl, people will always find loopholes to rules, and, if we want to ban stuff that makes the game "boring and gay", then you have a lot more to worry about then just different characters planking.
Rolling is an approach in this game FFS, so if your gonna take this game seriously thenbe prepared for not just some, but all of the gay **** there is and honestly, most players aren't even playing the game as gay as they could be

Btw my pool was
1. shugo
2. dphat
3. ozz

good stuff

Yeah. What you just said is why I suggested heavily looking into non LGL alternatives because people will find ways around that.

And everyone said Brinstar wasn't a problem with MK... lol. When are people gonna learn about THAT! Say what you want about DK vs Olimar, but this **** has happened IDK how many times and the community still thinks the stage is acceptable.

People been predicting that this game would "die" back in 2008 and now there are more tourneys than ever worldwide with consistently increasing attendance. Seriously gtfo with that BS it's NOT gonna happen because this game is still awesome no matter what.

You want proof that this ****ing game is dying? Dphat, Atomsk, and I planned on either this or Genesis 2 being our last "real" tournaments. Jason (even if you don't believe him) has recently talked about quitting Brawl/smash in general. People who like the game naturally, also have outside life **** to deal with. Dojo, Lee Martin, etc probably won't play much longer for their own reasons.

There ARE some new players getting into the scene. 2 players from Texas just got into the game, with Whobo being their 2nd real tournament IIRC. I'm not denying that. But at the same time, you see SO many people contemplating quitting Brawl for varying reasons, and you CAN'T ignore it. Think about it like this: early Brawl, Texas was able to turn a REGIONAL into a hyped National with 110+ players enter. Could you do that now? Hell no. It's like that for most regions right now. Less people overall compared to the "old days".

And you actually took it serious in 2008 when the game had just CAME OUT? It's 2011 and where are you getting increasing attendance??? So many people don't even play anymore and more and more people are quitting

Yeah a lot of people quitting at this point. If LoL and Marvel didn't exist, I'd still play.

Any talk of how much fun people had at the actual tournament? o_O considering the turnout was higher than WHOBO 2and all the massive hype for some matches, guess I'll wait for the results topic.


@ planking complainers

Would you have been fine to see Will get camped to death onstage and possibly 3-stocked again, even though DK had enough tools when used properly, could give olimar a little bit of trouble? People also seem to forget Pikachu vs ICs on FD, where that seems to be Pikachu's most prominent strategy against them. If the characters are so good, they should have options against these things.

@Illmatic

Just because Esca was a little harder this time because of the no- LGL isn't really a good reason. Peach not having many answers to it makes planking the ledge an obvious advantageous strategy. In the end, didn't your skills prevailed anyways. (and who knows, if you practice you may discover some nasty things peach could do to chars on the ledge).


My best wishes from this hopes that this planking complaining or whatever progresses into a dynamic ledge/offstage game for more characters. Can't expect to deal with something you've never truly experienced before.

If someone gave me a reason to stop planking of DK of all characters then I'd be like okay, but I haven't seen it yet other than crying.

I like this post.

The metagame changes towards better plankers and characters than can dislodge them from the easier. Why are we preventing this? Its the natural course of the game, we will either find new counters to most of the plankers or the game will 100% degenerate. If you ban pre-emptively you will never know if there is going to be new counters. Also, losing a match by getting 3 stock then planking and winning is a perfectly legit technique as long as the planking is not overcentralizing vs the whole cast. I didn't see will plank his way to top 3, where you at richbrown, wheres your counterpicking? Your adaptation? Its your job as a player to keep up with these things. Don't blame planking when it only works vs you, don't blame the rules for not banning planking, blame yourself for not coming up with a better way to beat it. As always, expect the unexpected and be able to adapt on the fly.

The part I agree with is being flexible.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN... ATTENTION PLEASE... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LEARN OTHER CHARACTERS FIRST, AND THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT MU SPECIFIC BULL****. Don't main Wario and complain about grab release. Don't play Peach and complain about Pit planking you. Don't play Falco and complain about people planking you. Being a good player MEANS putting yourself into good situations, both in gameplay decisions and pregameplay decisions like stage and character choice. If you are going to main a character, be prepared to accept their weaknesses. Lucario easy to time out? Tough luck, you could have learned another character.

Look at Ally. He could play Snake all the time, or he could elevate himself and say "Hey I can pick different characters for different situations to get advantages". See him using MK/Marth/etc as well? That's the sign of using other options besides maining one character, to your advantage.

It's harder for character mains to legitimately complain about stuff that sucks in MU's, if they won't look into playing other characters to cover that. I'm not saying that as a "mains sucks" or as a blow to players in particular, but I'm saying that if you tend to complain about something that sucks for your character instead of looking into other character options, that of course it's probably gonna look gayer than it actually is and your judgment about it will probably be clouded by that.

When a tourney thread turns into conversation over drama, it usually gets locked and a specific thread is created by a mod over it lol. inb4closedthread.



Some people still do play to get better and to prove their skill level to themselves and others.



The ledge grab rule should be on everyone because it is not correct to limit MK specifically. While this has been done for MK's infinite dimensional cape, no one else in the game has that tactic available to them, but everyone can grab the ledge. Broken or not, 1 character shouldn't be nerfed by a rule placed in play specifically for them. Everyone must abide to and play by the same rules. When the rules are made different for certain characters, that is just wrong.

What's wrong with certain characters deserving certain rules? Let's say that exactly 5 characters were BROKEN on the ledge. Completely BROKEN. MK Pika blah blah blah. Good. Now, if we know this, WHY would we turn around and say "Hey Wario, you can't grab the edge because it could be broken?"

Might as well not let anyone grab the edge ever, so that the chances of stalling through it are completely cut off. Why not take it even further for the sake of the game?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?



Hugs: Planking is not entirely "low skill". There can be a lot of thought put into execution timings and combating it. I mean yeah planking can be gay, but gay doesn't immediately translate into less skill. Timing someone out with Wario on a Neutral is gay, but god DAMN it is far from unskillful I can tell you that damn much.

can we please have MORE THAN ONE PERSON IN THE BBR (i.e. MORE THAN JUST ADUM) looking at planking for each character? it's very tiring to see all these complaints about planking when we don't have that much data about it

You have people still looking into it for a lot of characters, and options.

i'd like to see some research done on combating every character's planking before we call it broken lol

Esam lost to illmatic and mvd

Seibrik lost to me and redhalberd. And infinity in pools. I think he went wario vs infinity.

Redhalberd lost to tyrant and adhd i think. And espy in pools.

MVD lost to trela and me iirc.

Yeap

VINNIIIIIEEEEE

Some of That's 70's show was there.

Trela as Eric Forman.
Nicole as Donna.
Dojo as Fez.

*Dphat voice*

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO








LAST BUT NOT LEAST! SHOUTOUT TO ALLY: "What do you like to do in Canada?"
"I like to Fiiish. Then play Video Games. Then Fiiish some more" lmfao. Ally I love you bro, WE GOTTA DO MELEE MONEY MATCHES WITH THAT 1 CONTROLLER! OMG WHOEVER MADE THAT CONTROLLER HATES MANKIND!

"You salty bro?" "Yeah I'm salty. Let's play again" loool. Imma miss you Ally.

 

[Mekos]

I mean i think people are gonna eventually quit brawl cuz we getting old lol. I'm 20. And I know alot of smashers are 19+. We got college, internships, and realize were about to be past the young adult stage in a few years lol. Smash can't be our number 1 priority unless we want to live with our moms our whole lives lol.
That's why now I only go to tourneys if I know I can leave without being in debt(unless its close).

 

[KRDsonic]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaang. DMG completely ****** this topic with his infinite wisdom.

 

[Trela]

I'm glad you all enjoyed me and Ally's Set with each other.

Of course, the result will be different next time!

 

[Mr. Doom]

Ask Inui.

Rich you shoulda just done this. XD

Oh shiz... Exposed.

 

[Sky Pirate]

There ARE some new players getting into the scene. 2 players from Texas just got into the game, with Whobo being their 2nd real tournament IIRC.

Austin got a ****-ton of new people recently.
IIRC, it was the first national for 7/10 of the ones that went. :D

 

[cMeDu]

Omfg DMG busting out that NEXT level wall....

Good stuff .

 

[DMG]

Oh yeah, actual shoutouts will come soon. I got a lot of people to cover, and I wanna play LoL with my mans David Allied Hance.