Who exactly are the viable characters (for winning tournaments)?

[Anth0ny]

MK- obviously
Snake- obviously
Falco- obviously
DDD- obviously
G&W- obviously
Marth- yes
Diddy- yes
Wario- yes
Olimar- yes
R.O.B.- maybe. at this point, the only person I know who is placing high with rob is holy.
Kirby- yes
Lucario- yes
Donkey Kong- maybe. who uses dk well besides bum? I think dk is a good character, but no one is really proving it...
Ice Climbers- yes. Thanks Lain and Ambrose
Pikachu (?) leaning towards a yes- I'd say yes. Anther alone proves it, and now that the new cg's have been discovered, I think more and more pika's will appear.
Zero Suit Samus (?) leaning towards a yes- yes, but no one but snakee has really shown what she is capable of.

 

[Sky`]

MK- obviously
Snake- obviously
Falco- obviously
DDD- obviously
G&W- obviously
Marth- yes
Diddy- yes
Wario- yes
Olimar- yes
R.O.B.- maybe. at this point, the only person I know who is placing high with rob is holy.
Kirby- yes
Lucario- yes
Donkey Kong- maybe. who uses dk well besides bum? I think dk is a good character, but no one is really proving it...
Ice Climbers- yes. Thanks Lain and Ambrose
Pikachu (?) leaning towards a yes- I'd say yes. Anther alone proves it, and now that the new cg's have been discovered, I think more and more pika's will appear.
Zero Suit Samus (?) leaning towards a yes- yes, but no one but snakee has really shown what she is capable of.

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

ROB and DK...

I don't think so.
ZSS Nah.
Pika... Maybe.

I'm talking about doing it alone. =D​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

 

[Hive]

You know, Iceclimbers would be more viable if popo could find a way to get rid of that dumb *****. I mean she's always in his way

Spoiler

Its a trap! :O

 

[TheReflexWonder]

~KBizzle

I've been screwing around with Pika before some stupid chaingrab became public news. Lol @ people flocking to characters for such silly reasons.​

~Midwest Represent!​

If it helps me take out my worst matchups, I'm all for it. :/

 

[Ussi]

MK- obviously
Snake- obviously
Falco- obviously LOL countered Will only win if there are no pikachus
DDD- obviously
G&W- obviously
Marth- yes
Diddy- yes
Wario- yes
Olimar- yes
R.O.B.- maybe. at this point, the only person I know who is placing high with rob is holy.
Kirby- yes
Lucario- yes
Donkey Kong- maybe. who uses dk well besides bum? I think dk is a good character, but no one is really proving it...
Ice Climbers- yes. Thanks Lain and Ambrose
Pikachu (?) leaning towards a yes- I'd say yes. Anther alone proves it, and now that the new cg's have been discovered, I think more and more pika's will appear.
Zero Suit Samus (?) leaning towards a yes- yes, but no one but snakee has really shown what she is capable of.

If its alone then.... eh

 

[Eddie G]

If it helps me take out my worst matchups, I'm all for it. :/

~KBizzle

That's a perfectly good reason; My post was generally directed to those players who will flock to Pikachu for the chaingrab and only the chaingrab. No interest in the character, no intent on pushing that character's limits, just for chaingrab purposes.

I should have specified, my bad.

And I know it mostly boils down to the players, but have any of you also felt like Brawl has become something of a chess game on the character selection screen for the most part? I don't just mean simple counterpicking, just...certain characters have become absolute necessities against others. Isn't it even a tad irritating?

For example, in Melee you have DaShizWiz's Falco vs. Chu's ICs at Revival of Melee; now on paper the ICs can **** the matchup if they prevent getting separated, gimp Falco's recovery, or in Chu's case get a grab off. However Shiz overcomes these odds by overwhelming Chu with technical assaults and spacing to avoid getting grabbed as much as possible. He averted what is seemingly pre-determined on paper in that matchup. Can you say the same for Falco vs. ICs in Brawl? Or will players just have to run to another character to have a chance at winning the match? Do you see where my restriction-induced frustration is coming from?​

~Midwest Represent!​

 

[Pikabunz]

The chain grab isn't as good as most people think. :/

 

[Cherry64]

You know, Iceclimbers would be more viable if popo could find a way to get rid of that dumb *****. I mean she's always in his way

Spoiler

Its a trap! :O

Lawl. I think Nana owns Popo any day. who kills everyone hmm? Nana Ftw

 

[BentoBox]

For ZSS, I think Falco is at least 65/35 his favor. It may be the same against Metaknight and Diddy Kong too now.

That is sad to hear =/

ZSS was supposed to be this perfect complement for Peach :<

wariooooooooooooooo

 

[Smasher89]

I would say IC, MK, Snake and Diddy...

 

[Falconv1.0]

I would say IC, MK, Snake and Diddy...

IC's have really bad match ups and really bad stages.


Me thinks no.

 

[Snakeee]

This really depends on how you define "tourney viable" because there are characters that can win a tournament, but if they run into their one or two match ups where it is heavily uphill, it will be far more difficult.

Either way, I'd still say my characters, ZSS and Sheik/Zelda (probably only together) are tourney viable.
I'd include most characters up to at least upper mid tier as this as well. Whichever way you put it, much more characters in this game are tourney viable than in Melee and that I'm very happy about.

 

[Eddie G]

This really depends on how you define "tourney viable" because there are characters that can win a tournament, but if they run into their one or two match ups where it is heavily uphill, it will be far more difficult.

Either way, I'd still say my characters, ZSS and Sheik/Zelda (probably only together) are tourney viable.
I'd include most characters up to at least upper mid tier as this as well. Whichever way you put it, much more characters in this game are tourney viable than in Melee and that I'm very happy about.

~KBizzle

You make a good point; this game does have more tourney viability within the cast, at least that is what has presented itself.

P.S. You are awesome for being a Faize fan. I have two favorite characters in all of gaming, Faize and Albert Wesker. A strange mix...I know. ​

~Midwest Represent!​

 

[Smasher89]

IC's have really bad match ups and really bad stages.


Me thinks no.

none which doesn´t make powershield the best move in the game , snake is managable and the ROB matchup is about getting more passive damage in then in other matchups, G&W is hard though but there´s alot of room for developement in those matchups...

 

[Falconv1.0]

none which doesn´t make powershield the best move in the game

That answer doesn't make any sense.

I'll take my MK to Rainbow Cruise. I cant think of a single IC player that would ever keep IC's in that match up.

 

[Sky`]

none which doesn´t make powershield the best move in the game , snake is managable and the ROB matchup is about getting more passive damage in then in other matchups, G&W is hard though but there´s alot of room for developement in those matchups...

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

IC's get Shredded by Peach/MK/ Anything that can space well. xD

They are good, just not... amazing, ya dig?​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

 

[Crizthakidd]

mk
snake
ddd



you dont really see anyone elese takign it to the top unless its specifically that player in a mid sized tourny.
those 3 can take the huge ones but its also cuz who plays them

all other tourneis can be taken by
falco
GnW
ic
marth
maybe rob
anther

 

[AvaricePanda]

all other tourneis can be taken by
falco
GnW
ic
marth
maybe rob
anther

I lol'd.

I don't see why people think ICs are insanely good just because of their chaingrab. As aforementioned, they do have some pretty crappy stages and a horrible grab range, so "Don't get grabbed" is a lot easier with them than D3.

Still, they're good, but like Sky said, not amazing.

It really depends the size of the tournament. I don't expect an Ike to get top 5 at a national tournament, but in a regional, Ike getting 3rd is pretty believable.

And @ King Beef, I see where you're coming from. Some people, when they get a matchup that's even just 45:55 or 40:60 against them, they go counterpick crazy. If people don't even attempt to play through bad matchups, those matchups can't evolve. Now, if your character has a really stupid matchup against some characters, like DK vs. D3 or Fox vs. Pika, then counterpicking is understandable. But even a 35:75 or 30:70 matchup can be pushed through. Unless you're actually really good with the person you're counterpicking with, you're probably better off sticking with your main.

And that Shiz vs. Chu match was a good example.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Those characters that are bolded, can't do it alone. They would need Subs to win a Regional, however they remain viable due to the fact that they are good characters and can subsist on many stages.

The one who is slashed has a terrible time against certain matchups, and therefore would have to have a sub or two to win tournaments regularly.

Can you explain why they need a sub, especially for 60:40 match-ups in some of those characters cases.

The chain grab isn't as good as most people think. :/

How so?

 

[Barge]

Ice climber's aren't THAT tourney viable. Seeing as how most of their bad matchups are top/high tier.


SS Tier
Meta Knight 15.00 Bad

S Tier
Snake 13.91 Bad

A Tier
Falco 13.03 Good
King Dedede 12.94 Good
Mr. Game & Watch 12.50 Bad
Marth 12.09 Bad
Diddy Kong 11.94 Even

B Tier
Wario 11.47 Even
R.O.B. 11.38 Bad
Lucario 10.94 Even
Olimar 10.94 Good

The top 11 alone.
Theres
5/11 Bad matchups
3/11 Even matchups
and 3/11 good matchups

 

[Snakeee]

side note: ZSS destroys ICs :D

but I don't know they seem pretty viable to me. A slip up from any character, and a grab can cost them their whole stock

 

[Barge]

Indeed, I lost to a good one the last tournament I went to >_>
Only included top 11 since they're the most used at tournaments, though.

 

[Gindler]

I recall equi winning a gigabits (80+ people tourney usually) with WOLF

What exactly defines viable? not having many bad matchups?

 

[gallax]

pika is definately tourney viable. we have the ability to kill near 85% on most chars(with thunder). we can combo out of our grab. we can CG a lot of chars to a very nice percentage. our qac gives us an awesome and almost ungimpable recovery(when used right). and we have one of the fastest moves for momentum canceling which leads to a longer stock.

 

[Mr.E]

Why does Dedede never get mentioned as a character not tourney-viable? Last I knew, he had a bad match-up with all three of MK, Falco, and G&W, three of the other top five characters. (And, to be fair, he's arguably Snake's toughest match-up.) I wouldn't say it, as I am not so tight, but those of you with stricter definitions of "viable" should take a second look.

 

[Kinzer]

D3 will probably be going down...

...He's just so high because he ***** people in the lower half of the tier list, and maybe give some people in the upper half some trouble to be fair.

 

[Deathcarter]

Edited my opening post with an clarification of my definition of viability and changing DK and Ice Climbers to maybes.

 

[Gindler]

Why does Dedede never get mentioned as a character not tourney-viable? Last I knew, he had a bad match-up with all three of MK, Falco, and G&W, three of the other top five characters. (And, to be fair, he's arguably Snake's toughest match-up.) I wouldn't say it, as I am not so tight, but those of you with stricter definitions of "viable" should take a second look.

He does pretty decent agains MK and G&W. A good D3 can easily beat a good MK or G&W with enough skill (and a little help from a 17% damage Bthrow). His worst matchup though is the ICs I hear.

 

[MoonShoes]

I never like to use Dedede too much,
he floats yet he falls fast... but I think that he's got a limited set of effective moves
at least he doesn't fly far, so he's harder to K.O.

 

[Brinzy]

The thing with him is that, even in his worst match-ups, he still has incredible staying power, power in general, nice range, ******** things like a shockwave on an Fsmash or random gordos, etc.

DDD ***** characters and he has many characters that can **** him. It's just that, even with the characters that **** him, he's still got his innate strengths.

ICs: Ok, they tear him up, but remove Nana and suddenly DDD is ****** Popo. Not to mention just choosing a proper stage hampers the ICs.

Zelda: Glass cannon and can rip through his aerials and recovery... but dies at very low %s as soon as she has to recover or as soon as she whiffs and eats an utilt

Pikachu: chaingrabs, very quick, good aerials, good edgeguarding... but dies at low %s as well

Ness: Edgeguards him decently, builds damage off of D3 very easily, etc... and then gets knocked off the stage and edgeguarded disgustingly.


those are the only ones I know, and I'm sure DDD has other fights like this. The point is that his tougher match-ups still grant him some way to kill off his opponent effectively. He's that good.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The thing with him is that, even in his worst match-ups, he still has incredible staying power, power in general, nice range, ******** things like a shockwave on an Fsmash or random gordos, etc.

DDD ***** characters and he has many characters that can **** him. It's just that, even with the characters that **** him, he's still got his innate strengths.

ICs: Ok, they tear him up, but remove Nana and suddenly DDD is ****** Popo. Not to mention just choosing a proper stage hampers the ICs.

Zelda: Glass cannon and can rip through his aerials and recovery... but dies at very low %s as soon as she has to recover or as soon as she whiffs and eats an utilt

Pikachu: chaingrabs, very quick, good aerials, good edgeguarding... but dies at low %s as well

Ness: Edgeguards him decently, builds damage off of D3 very easily, etc... and then gets knocked off the stage and edgeguarded disgustingly.

those are the only ones I know, and I'm sure DDD has other fights like this. The point is that his tougher match-ups still grant him some way to kill off his opponent effectively. He's that good.

While this is true, he still has to get around the fact he can't chaingrab them while Nana is around, they outcamp him, and DDD's ending lag on his attacks could leave him open enough for a grab.

 

[HiddenBowser]

IC's don't get ***** by MK at all. I'd say it's slightly in favor of MK, like 55/45. If the IC player camps the MK, it makes it hard for the MK to get inside and hit the IC. I play with Lain and Omniswell all the time. If I'm not mistaken, the only MK's Lain's ever lost to in tourney were myself, Dojo, and Spammer all of which were very close sets. I haven't seen omni lose to a MK other than myself either except for kel because he dropped a ton of grabs and his nana was tripping all over the place, so he shoulda won that. and it's not their fault that like almost all of the other IC players out there suck <--- it's true

Also, DDD beats G&W and Falco. He only loses to MK, IC's, and Pika imo... and snake vs DDD is only slightly in favor of DDD.