What's stopping Sonic from getting more characters?

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Honestly, there's a ton of Sonic characters that would be more puzzling than Amy, Silver, Rouge and the like, at least the latter are series regulars.

Zavok in particular would be added for no reason other than having to compare him to. Also, because some folks at Sega really like him and Zazz, for some reason, despite the fact that the Deadly Six are supposed to be one-offs.

The most fun one to me would be Honey the Cat, because she's based on a fighting game character, you could get Fighters' mechanics included, and there's no way in hell Fighting Vipers would get anything otherwise.

That being said, the Global Smash Roster gives a general idea of what folks want at the moment:

Some good news, guys. Despite Tails and Shadow having significantly higher post counts for their threads on this forum (Knuckles' thread is 3 pages long and dead), I found a place where Eggman is polling ahead of Tails and Shadow.

globalsmashroster.com

 

[Oracle Link]

I know. I agree Silver and Blaze should wait in line for a while-but maybe Blaze can have some priority there. I don't see her getting in as a second character, but the third or fourth, sure.

He was directly based off of Trunks anyways so idc.

think about it while Sonic/Shadows quils look diffrent from Gokus/Vegeta Silver and this version of trunks have simlar "Hair"

 

[Otoad64]

Honestly, I think there are other Sonic characters that would be at the lower part of the barrel than Rouge. She isn't that important or interesting, but she's definitely in the top 15. Also, she definitely wouldn't be a Echo or semi-clone of Tails or Knuckles.

I guess you could probably make rouge original, it's just that she is usually similiar to tails or knuckles ability wise. maybe cream would be a better tails echo though. And yeah, if sonic ever has 15 characters she should probably be one of them, it's just that out of all of the major sonic characters she's bottom priority, either her or cream, though cream might get in first as a tails echo

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To be fair, it is possible to label a character as unique even if they share a lot of traits.
Conversely, the definition of an Echo can be stretched if the moves have enough differences from their template.

Seeing as adding new music is like having teeth pulled anyways, I figure that most additions would have to be unique (to various degrees) and come with music in the process.

 

[UserKev]

Honestly, there's a ton of Sonic characters that would be more puzzling than Amy, Silver, Rouge and the like, at least the latter are series regulars.

Zavok in particular would be added for no reason other than having to compare him to. Also, because some folks at Sega really like him and Zazz, for some reason, despite the fact that the Deadly Six are supposed to be one-offs.

The most fun one to me would be Honey the Cat, because she's based on a fighting game character, you could get Fighters' mechanics included, and there's no way in hell Fighting Vipers would get anything otherwise.

That being said, the Global Smash Roster gives a general idea of what folks want at the moment:

I'm extremely relieved to see Big The Cat at the top right with the main most requests.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Amy is not a bottom of the barrel pick if you ask me.
She's been in pretty much every modern Sonic game except Colors Wii.
And playable the most after Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles.

For Smash, she's at least iconic, important, and popular enough to get in with shock factor.

But I agree that for Smash, she's a bit of a 2nd tier pick.
She's basically to Tails what Metal Sonic is to Eggman. Only under special conditions could I see her make it in.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At any rate, I don't care which Sonic character makes it in, as long as it's someone. I'd even take the Crabmeat at this stage.

I've been waiting since Brawl, and I'll still be willing to wait as long as it takes.

 

[Oracle Link]

someone did rewrite sonic 06 and added a third Solaris Part (the Heart/good) he called it Innerste which was pretty Funny because he said Mephiles/Iblis are "german" so it fits believe me it doesent Mephiles is a name of Stan (actually its Mephistofules) and i dont even know what iblis means but Innerste Thats Guts (i mean yes it can be used for your Soul but its mostly used for the inside of anything)

 

[Quillion]

At any rate, I don't care which Sonic character makes it in, as long as it's someone. I'd even take the Crabmeat at this stage.

Don't be that extreme; there's a difference between the actual headliners like Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Shadow, and yes even Amy, and the second-stringers like Big, Silver, Blaze, Marine, and Cream. Not saying the second-stringers are bad characters, but I'd rather have more characters in other franchises before them, like say any Final Fantasy character not from FF7.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Don't be that extreme; there's a difference between the actual headliners like Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Shadow, and yes even Amy, and the second-stringers like Big, Silver, Blaze, Marine, and Cream. Not saying the second-stringers are bad characters, but I'd rather have more characters in other franchises before them, like say any Final Fantasy character not from FF7.

Don't worry, I'm just making a general (unbiased) statement, I don't have any direct involvement with fan support for any specific character. I certainly wasn't about to have people clamor for Crabmeat, really.

But yeah there's no control over who gets in for the most part. I obviously know that Tails, Eggman or whoever else early enough would come first, it's just that I want the series to finally have a second character, is all. As for FF characters not from FF7, I feel like they'd have more of a chance if their games got the FF7R treatment, although Squall and Noctis may not need that.

In any case, it's impossible to predict which franchise will get their second unique character next. Could be Street Fighter, could be Mega Man.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I honestly think Tails or Eggman should and will get in first. But if I could choose, I certainly would pick Knuckles to be the first to go since he's my favorite Sonic character and he would be a blast to play as with his flying abilities, strength and everything.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sak recently wants villain characters to feel like boss characters

This might give Eggman the edge he needs to get in.

 

[shinhed-echi]

This might give Eggman the edge he needs to get in.

Hopefully so!

Say.... What if the rest of the pass were villains?

Who would you guys like?

I'd like:

Dr.Eggman (+ Metal Sonic echo freebie)
Medusa (Kid Icarus)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)

 

[Quillion]

The trouble with Eggman in contrast to either Tails or even Knuckles or Shadow is that they would probably need to make a lot of stuff up for Eggman while the anthros have established abilities to build from, or they could even recycle moves from Sonic. Eggman with a lot of stuff made up wouldn't look good next to the super-faithful portrayals of the recent characters.

 

[shinhed-echi]

The trouble with Eggman in contrast to either Tails or even Knuckles or Shadow is that they would probably need to make a lot of stuff up for Eggman while the anthros have established abilities to build from, or they could even recycle moves from Sonic. Eggman with a lot of stuff made up wouldn't look good next to the super-faithful portrayals of the recent characters.

On the contrary.

As much as I would love another speedy anthro, Eggman has by far more to work with moveset wise that even Sonic himself.

If we take one move from every boss fight, we could fill at least 3 different Eggman characters.

Heck, SA2 Eggman alone has enough to work with.


Though I have been thinking about the possibility of him fighting inside his iconic Egg pod instead.
They could implement so many moves referencing so many games.
The ball and chain, the giant mallet, the Eggmobile drill, Big Arms, the mines from Lava Reef, the Fire cannons from Angel Island, etc, etc.

 

[Janx_uwu]

The trouble with Eggman in contrast to either Tails or even Knuckles or Shadow is that they would probably need to make a lot of stuff up for Eggman while the anthros have established abilities to build from, or they could even recycle moves from Sonic. Eggman with a lot of stuff made up wouldn't look good next to the super-faithful portrayals of the recent characters.

Yes, because as we all know, Sonic is a super faithfully portrayed character in Smash.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This might give Eggman the edge he needs to get in.

This might also be the edge Porky needs as well. I still have lowkey faith in Porky happening for this game.

Hopefully so!

Say.... What if the rest of the pass were villains?

Who would you guys like?

I'd like:

Dr.Eggman (+ Metal Sonic echo freebie)
Medusa (Kid Icarus)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)

Porky
Skull Kid
Dr. Eggman

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The trouble with Eggman in contrast to either Tails or even Knuckles or Shadow is that they would probably need to make a lot of stuff up for Eggman while the anthros have established abilities to build from, or they could even recycle moves from Sonic. Eggman with a lot of stuff made up wouldn't look good next to the super-faithful portrayals of the recent characters.

Like that's ever stopped Sak before.



The only trouble Eggman has is an endless amount of possible newcomers that can be prioritized over him, let alone other Sonic characters.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Say.... What if the rest of the pass were villains?

Who would you guys like?

I'd like:

Dr.Eggman (+ Metal Sonic echo freebie)
Medusa (Kid Icarus)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)

Dark Matter, Kamek, and Eggman, in that order.

 

[Quillion]

Like that's ever stopped Sak before.



The only trouble Eggman has is an endless amount of possible newcomers that can be prioritized over him, let alone other Sonic characters.

It hasn't, but those were EARLY characters. The newer characters are held to a higher standard.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It hasn't, but those were EARLY characters. The newer characters are held to a higher standard.

To be fair, it's not often that Eggman fights with the exact same tools in every Sonic game. Would be faithful in that sense for Smash to have its "own" Eggman boss attack moveset.

 

[Quillion]

To be fair, it's not often that Eggman fights with the exact same tools in every Sonic game. Would be faithful in that sense for Smash to have its "own" Eggman boss attack moveset.

The same applies to Ganondorf, and look at how people feel about HIS Smash portrayal.

 

[Eremurus]

For the overall popularity of Sonic, I've never understood why his franchise never received more representation. Is it because they rarely develop Sonic games in this day and age?

I feel like Dr. Eggman or Tails would be the most appropriate. Iconic characters that wouldn't be Sonic semi-clones.

 

[Lenidem]

The same applies to Ganondorf, and look at how people feel about HIS Smash portrayal.

I don't know about Eggman, but in every game Ganondorf appears, he or a version of he uses dead man volley. In Wind Waker, his phantom versions does, and in Twilight Princess, he does it when possessing Zelda. Pretty sure every single version of pig Ganon does it too.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, ZoroCarlos and I discussed about this, and he's provided a proof-of-concept from a friend, showing how Eggman might work with a Smash moveset:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tWgFRmFWik-XfhxxpEmDrV_VsLkrvHB27GKQIIc5C-k/edit

But if that still isn't enough to be convincing, whatever. Stuff happening is the only way I ever win arguments around here anyway...

 

[shinhed-echi]

So, ZoroCarlos and I discussed about this, and he's provided a proof-of-concept from a friend, showing how Eggman might work with a Smash moveset:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tWgFRmFWik-XfhxxpEmDrV_VsLkrvHB27GKQIIc5C-k/edit

But if that still isn't enough to be convincing, whatever. Stuff happening is the only way I ever win arguments around here anyway...

This moveset is PERFECT!
This is what I mean.
Eggman can pick up one move from each of his inventions and turn it into a moveset.

And these are basically the classics + SA2. Imagine using more. He's got like 30 something games to choose from.


But again, perfect moveset. Would definitely main him if he was represented this way.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm surprised nobody has done a Smash parody of the House of Villains song since Ultimate has given us so many villains and more than the previous titles:

If Eggman or Porky get's in, somebody has to put the Smash villains' heads on all the villains heads in this video since Smash is really becoming the House of Villains.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Hopefully so!

Say.... What if the rest of the pass were villains?

Who would you guys like?

I'd like:

Dr.Eggman (+ Metal Sonic echo freebie)
Medusa (Kid Icarus)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)

Dr. Eggman
Gruntilda (not happening this game, but it's who I want most)
Kamek (either on his own, or maybe he could come with Baby Bowser, ala Icies/RosaLuma)

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Gruntilda (not happening this game, but it's who I want most)

: You say I am who you want most you say? Well, look no farther as I have a support thread ready today!

The Cackling Witch that Rhymes! The Gruntilda Winkybunion Support Thread!

: If you log into Smashboards today, you're in for a big surprise! Cause Gruntilda has her very own Smashing delight! Hello bois and gurls and welcome to the Gruntilda Winkybunion support thread! If you want to support, don't cower in fear! Come closer and come here...

smashboards.com

 

[kaithehedgefox]

This is interesting! I've already wanted more Sonic playable characters beacause it's the #1 most iconic non-Nintendo videogame franchise in the world!

 

[Otoad64]

This is interesting! I've already wanted more Sonic playable characters beacause it's the #1 most iconic non-Nintendo videogame franchise in the world!

pretty sure that's either minecraft or pac-man but it's definently up there!

 

[kaithehedgefox]

pretty sure that's either minecraft or pac-man but it's definently up there!

Nah, Sonic already trumps Pacman, with Pacman being #2.

 

[7NATOR]

A new Sonic Character was probably planned to be added as early as 2015 along with Steve and Sephiroth, most likely.

 

[Quillion]

pretty sure that's either minecraft or pac-man but it's definently up there!

It's too bad Bamco as of late has caused Pac-Man to be associated with mobile shovelware. At least everything Sonic EXCEPT the flagship Sonic Team games are doing well.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sega celebrated the new year with some nice pieces of art.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...social_media_with_some_stunning_sonic_artwork

 

[Otoad64]

Sega celebrated the new year with some nice pieces of art.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...social_media_with_some_stunning_sonic_artwork

where was this when they made those crappy twitter profile pics and that crappy desktop background?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh, Rouge would be my personal choice any day.

That said, Echoes have the same bodyshape, which only applies to Metal Sonic and Shadow. Silver is the only other kind of close, though possibly Amy might too? Classic Sonic does not come close, as it's a different set of proportions(which is actually the same as Tails. In a twist, Tails and Classic Sonic could be Echoes of each other).

That aside, I was hoping Shadow would be in. I prefer him as a non-echo, but I don't see anything wrong with an Echo either. Incidentally, Sakurai didn't ignore the spin-offs either, as many of Sonic's attacks are from Sonic the Fighters, and his Down Aerial is pretty much Shadow Rocket from Sonic Battle itself. He focuses on a good amount of Classic and Modern stuff in different ways. Though only the Homing Attack is directly from Modern, it also got upgraded to use the version from Sonic Unleashed instead of Sonic Adventure.

Anyway, there's a ton of great ones, but I highly doubt we'd suddenly get three more. Sakurai has noted he does care about series balance, and it's third party, not first/second party with special circumstances like Smash For and Fire Emblem had. He has to license each character. And when only 2 can feasibly be an Echo, you have even less chances. Considering we didn't see Shadow as an Echo either, it makes you wonder if Sega just doesn't want to play ball in this case. Every single Sega character is from a different franchise too.

 

[Quillion]

Anyway, there's a ton of great ones, but I highly doubt we'd suddenly get three more. Sakurai has noted he does care about series balance, and it's third party, not first/second party with special circumstances like Smash For and Fire Emblem had. He has to license each character. And when only 2 can feasibly be an Echo, you have even less chances. Considering we didn't see Shadow as an Echo either, it makes you wonder if Sega just doesn't want to play ball in this case. Every single Sega character is from a different franchise too.

We're definitely not going to get three more for DLC, but getting one DLC for Ultimate and two more for Smash 6 base could work.

And I don't get why Sega wouldn't want to play ball. They're pushing Sonic pretty hard, and everything but the flagship Sonic Team games are doing well lately. They're certainly handling their other franchises like Yakuza, Puyo Puyo, and Persona better than ever, but not at the expense of Sonic.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We're definitely not going to get three more for DLC, but getting one DLC for Ultimate and two more for Smash 6 base could work.

And I don't get why Sega wouldn't want to play ball. They're pushing Sonic pretty hard, and everything but the flagship Sonic Team games are doing well lately. They're certainly handling their other franchises like Yakuza, Puyo Puyo, and Persona better than ever, but not at the expense of Sonic.

You are aware they said no for Sonic for Brawl at first, right? And we know they didn't actually say yes to Sonic for For at first either. So basically they seem to be fine with other content, but when it comes to playable, we see no evidence of it being plausible. They couldn't even get an Echo for base either, which is surprising since Shadow or Metal Sonic(as I noted, the only feasible ones) didn't happen. Shadow suddenly being revealed late makes it questionable too. Did plans fall through? Did Sakurai never ask? Does Nintendo and Sakurai feel Sonic is enough? They keep going for other Sega franchises as is.

And I highly doubt we'd even get two next game under that. It's been clearly difficult to even get an extra character from any franchise outside of Echoes alone. Sephiroth is pretty lucky in itself, and isn't a good indicator of things to come either. Since most of the time we get an Echo. That's in fact the only time we got two third party characters from the same franchise, being a unique situation for Castlevania. The Echo mold made it easier for both to work as well as Castlevania getting massive ballot votes(the main reason they were chosen), but also because Sakurai wanted to use both of the main protagonists over Alucard. Imagine if he didn't do that. That's the point I'm making. Sephiroth is a very special situation that I wouldn't apply anywhere else. For all we know, he was agreed upon to be done eventually, which is also when we'd get a lot more FFVII content. I think he was likely in talks for a very long time. So maybe base for next game otherwise.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think Tails getting in as DLC in Ultimate would be good promotion for the Sonic 2 movie. It's literally the perfect time to put Tails in as DLC if anytime.