What's stopping Sonic from getting more characters?

[RetrogamerMax]

So how big would Eggman be in Smash in one of his mechs or the Egg Mobile? Where would he place in weight?

 

[Quillion]

So how big would Eggman be in Smash in one of his mechs or the Egg Mobile? Where would he place in weight?

If Bowser is the upper limit for character size (in their regular stance, in case you say Ridley), I'd say go for that size.

His Sonic the Fighters mech is large without looking too out-of-place.

 

[Doc Monocle]

Like I've aforementioned, popularity ≠ iconicness/fame. Getting back on topic, Tails is more iconic than Shadow, but not more popular.

That is what RetrogamerMax just said. What exactly contradicts? Were you agreeing with them?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If Bowser is the upper limit for character size (in their regular stance, in case you say Ridley), I'd say go for that size.

His Sonic the Fighters mech is large without looking too out-of-place.

So about Bowser or K. Rool's weight? Because technically, Ridley and K. Rool are bigger than Bowser in canon yet Bowser is still the biggest fighter in the roster. I think they want Bowser to stay as the biggest or heaviest no matter what other heavyweights they add in the future. I mean, he's Mario's big bad so it makes sense Nintendo would want to treat him in that regard.

 

[7NATOR]

I actually made a Quick Shadow moveset in this Google Document

Quick Shadow Moveset

Links to move descriptions Chaos powers | Sonic News Network | Fandom Boost | Sonic News Network | Fandom Spin Dash | Sonic News Network | Fandom Homing Attack | Sonic News Network | Fandom Use this links to read up more on some of the moves talked about in this moveset Stats and special pro...

docs.google.com

Personally, I wouldn't waste a Special Move slot on Spindash or Homing attack. Instead I would make that a Normal Attack, like Down Tilt or Side Tile

Shadow actually has the exact amount of Iconic moves to fill all Special Move Slots

Chaos Control (Timestop)
Chaos Spear
Chaos Warp
Chaos Boost/Chaos Blast

I think Sonic characters like Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles should have stuff like Spindash and Homing attack, but Special Moves should only be filled by stuff Entirely unique to that Character. If they are gonna make Homing attack or Spindash Specials, they should be heavily Modified (Ex: Knuckles's Spindash can go Underground)

 

[kaithehedgefox]

That is what RetrogamerMax just said. What exactly contradicts? Were you agreeing with them?

I agree with RetrogamerMax.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So we all agree that Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow should all come next for Sonic characters right? Because I think they should have priority first because of their importance.

 

[Quillion]

So we all agree that Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow should all come next for Sonic characters right? Because I think they should have priority first because of their importance.

In no particular order, yeah. But it needs to be gradual, starting with FP2, continuing with Smash 6 base, and then Smash 6's DLC.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

In no particular order, yeah. But it needs to be gradual, starting with FP2, continuing with Smash 6 base, and then Smash 6's DLC.

Yep. Though I think no one would be complaining if Sonic got 2 DLC characters in Ultimate because it deserves it being one of the biggest and most iconic gaming franchises of all time.

 

[Quillion]

Yep. Though I think no one would be complaining if Sonic got 2 DLC characters in Ultimate because it deserves it being one of the biggest and most iconic gaming franchises of all time.

I would complain. The fact that each DLC is a different franchise is one of the DLC's strengths.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I would complain. The fact that each DLC is a different franchise is one of the DLC's strengths.

Well, some people complained about Sephiroth with him being another FF rep instead of a new rep from a Square-Enix franchise not yet represented in the roster. Not many people complained about Sephiroth, but some did in that regard. I think one of these days, one of the companies will double dip in the same Pass.

 

[Quillion]

Well, some people complained about Sephiroth with him being another FF rep instead of a new rep from a Square-Enix franchise not yet represented in the roster. Not many people complained about Sephiroth, but some did in that regard. I think one of these days, one of the companies will double dip in the same Pass.

Wasn't the biggest complaint that the next Final Fantasy rep was another FF7 character instead of anyone else in the 15 game long series?

Besides, I said that each DLC being a different franchise is a good thing. I didn't say that each DLC needed to be an entirely new franchise.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Wasn't the biggest complaint that the next Final Fantasy rep was another FF7 character instead of anyone else in the 15 game long series?

Yep.

Besides, I said that each DLC being a different franchise is a good thing. I didn't say that each DLC needed to be an entirely new franchise.

But still, you're implying that it would be a bad thing if per say a franchise got two reps in the same Pass.

 

[Quillion]

But still, you're implying that it would be a bad thing if per say a franchise got two reps in the same Pass.

Actually that is what I'm saying. Sonic is great and all, but I still want to have each DLC be from a different franchise, even if that franchise is already in the base game. The DLC being from an entirely new franchise to Smash is irrelevant.

 

[Chaosmaster8753]

Probably because SEGA doesn't feel like doing so?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So we all agree that Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow should all come next for Sonic characters right? Because I think they should have priority first because of their importance.

In no particular order, yeah. But it needs to be gradual, starting with FP2, continuing with Smash 6 base, and then Smash 6's DLC.

And Zavok will probably be added somewhere in the middle of all that, because of course. Why do Sega developers like the Zeti so much anyway?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I would complain. The fact that each DLC is a different franchise is one of the DLC's strengths.

That's understandable. But at least getting both Tails and Eggman would be better than nothing.

 

[Quillion]

That's understandable. But at least getting both Tails and Eggman would be better than nothing.

Just getting Tails OR Eggman would be better than nothing.

I'm still waiting on another western third-party character that isn't from Microsoft.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Yeah, there are about a million other characters out there who would be great to have in Smash, and having two Sonic characters in a single season of DLC just seems redundant. Maybe if Eggman gets in he could come with a Metal Sonic echo that's almost entirely unchanged from Sonic, but that would be the absolute most.

Why do Sega developers like the Zeti so much anyway?

I honestly couldn't tell you. Maybe they think Mario fans who played Lost World would feel abandoned if Zavok wasn't in every spinoff?

 

[Doc Monocle]

So we all agree that Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow should all come next for Sonic characters right? Because I think they should have priority first because of their importance.

I would like to squeeze Amy into that list (I think she would be too much fun for me to ignore), but I know she does not beat the big four, and so I would sadly agree.

Yeah, there are about a million other characters out there who would be great to have in Smash, and having two Sonic characters in a single season of DLC just seems redundant. Maybe if Eggman gets in he

I must cordially disagree on Metal Sonic! If we are given this much wait time about including more Sonic characters, then it would feel to me like a wasted wish if a mere Sonic echo were revealed, at which point it would feel like the 'countdown timer' must have been reset before we could expect to see more distinguished Sonic representation. I would beg anyone to reconsider Metal Sonic.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I would like to squeeze Amy into that list (I think she would be too much fun for me to ignore), but I know she does not beat the big four, and so I would sadly agree.



I must cordially disagree on Metal Sonic! If we are given this much wait time about including more Sonic characters, then it would feel to me like a wasted wish if a mere Sonic echo were revealed, at which point it would feel like the 'countdown timer' must have been reset before we could expect to see more distinguished Sonic representation. I would beg anyone to reconsider Metal Sonic.

You know what, yeah.

Although it's likely in one hand, we can't underestimate Sakurai's own vision.
Remember when Krystal was super likely, and we got Wolf instead? I mean, yeah, NOW it makes sense. But remember Krystal was MUCH bigger than Wolf back then.

I don't see Sakurai being a huge Sonic fan, so it's not completely far-fetched to think that he would simply add a semi-clone Metal Sonic to "get one out of the way" (which is fine by me).

Yes, Eggman, Tails, Amy, Shadow, and Knuckles are more likely (in that order), but there's always the Sakurai factor.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know what, yeah.

Although it's likely in one hand, we can't underestimate Sakurai's own vision.
Remember when Krystal was super likely, and we got Wolf instead? I mean, yeah, NOW it makes sense. But remember Krystal was MUCH bigger than Wolf back then.

I don't see Sakurai being a huge Sonic fan, so it's not completely far-fetched to think that he would simply add a semi-clone Metal Sonic to "get one out of the way" (which is fine by me).

Yes, Eggman, Tails, Amy, Shadow, and Knuckles are more likely (in that order), but there's always the Sakurai factor.

It's only just recently that he managed to get in a unique second newcomer for a TP series, so we can't really determine a pattern from just that alone.

Besides, he's currently mostly following Nintendo suggestions for DLC until further notice. If it was an ARMS situation, maybe I could see it, but until then nah.

 

[Oracle Link]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Pum Pum pum pum pum puuum
Together, we can show the world what we can do
You are next to me, and im next to you
Push me on through until the battle's won

Nothing at all just memes

 

[Quillion]

Here's a video I found that sums up a lot of the frustration against Sonic's general representation in Smash. It covers all of the major sticking points: lack of a second character, stage selection, and Sonic's own moveset.

 

[7NATOR]

Here's a video I found that sums up a lot of the frustration against Sonic's general representation in Smash. It covers all of the major sticking points: lack of a second character, stage selection, and Sonic's own moveset.

I just now watched this video, and I do agree with a lot of the takes here

While I doubt we would get a Sonic Moveset overhaul, If we do get Eggman, Tails, Shadow & Knuckles in FP2, I could see Sonic also getting an update perhaps more substantial than what Cloud got when Sephiroth joined

Perhaps more Expressive motions, Roger Craig Smith recording new lines, Maybe we could have the Boost added as a Move to replace one of the Spindashes. I think this would be especially true if Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles were the characters since they'd likely use Sonic has a base, so while they are animating one of those 3, they might as well touch up on Sonic as well

 

[Oracle Link]

Here's a video I found that sums up a lot of the frustration against Sonic's general representation in Smash. It covers all of the major sticking points: lack of a second character, stage selection, and Sonic's own moveset.

I really dont like this Video he hates on Alph and more importantly he hates on Zelda spirit train THE ONLY HANDHELD STAGE!!!!!!!

 

[RileyXY1]

Basically because Sega might want to instead prioritize some of their other IPs over giving Sonic a second character.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Basically because Sega might want to instead prioritize some of their other IPs over giving Sonic a second character.

Probably. I think this was one of the reasons Sephiroth was chosen over other popular Square-Enix characters like Sora, Geno, 2B, Crono, Lara Croft who are from different IPs not yet in the game yet excluding Super Mario of course. But yeah, I think one of the reasons they went along with Sephiroth was to promote FF7 on the Switch as the Switch port of FF7 is the first time ever it has been on a Nintendo console. Sephiroth's Smash inclusion is a good way for Square-Enix to promote the classic PS1 Final Fantasy games that have been ported to the Switch that many Nintendo fans might not have been able to play until now. People seeing Sephiroth in Smash will spark interest in their minds to go buy and play FF7 and these PS1 FF games that they might have never played before.

 

[Quillion]

Probably. I think this was one of the reasons Sephiroth was chosen over other popular Square-Enix characters like Sora, Geno, 2B, Crono, Lara Croft who are from different IPs not yet in the game yet excluding Super Mario of course. But yeah, I think one of the reasons they went along with Sephiroth was to promote FF7 on the Switch as the Switch port of FF7 is the first time ever it has been on a Nintendo console. Sephiroth's Smash inclusion is a good way for Square-Enix to promote the classic PS1 Final Fantasy games that have been ported to the Switch that many Nintendo fans might not have been able to play until now. People seeing Sephiroth in Smash will spark interest in their minds to go buy and play FF7 and these PS1 FF games that they might have never played before.

I'm pretty sure Sephiroth was more timed with the remake more than anything.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm pretty sure Sephiroth was more timed with the remake more than anything.

That too. But you can't denie that Sephiroth is also used as a promotion for the PS1 FF Switch ports as well since Square-Enix is making a big deal out of the PS1 FF games coming to the Switch since they have never been released on Nintendo consoles until recently on the Switch.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm pretty sure Sephiroth was more timed with the remake more than anything.

Like, several months after the remake was released. Smash is many things, but punctual is not one of them, exactly.

That too. But you can't denie that Sephiroth is also used as a promotion for the PS1 FF Switch ports as well since Square-Enix is making a big deal out of the PS1 FF games coming to the Switch since they have never been released on Nintendo consoles until recently on the Switch.

One thing that's been pretty consistent with several of Ultimate's newcomers so far is that the characters who promote a specific game or two come much later than expected. With that in mind, it's hard to tell which recent games will result in a Smash inclusion after the fact next.

 

[Quillion]

Like, several months after the remake was released. Smash is many things, but punctual is not one of them, exactly.

To be fair, FF7R's development was reportedly tumultuous. It was delayed quite a bit and brought a co-director to work with Nomura. So it's hard to say when Sephiroth even started development.

 

[Perkilator]

Know what? I'm really not sure. The Echo Fighter concept seemed like a good fit for Shadow, yet he got Assist Trophy'd anyways. Eggman (or, for that matter, any other Sonic character) does have hope for a non-Echo spot, but that's really all I can say.

 

[Otoad64]

Know what? I'm really not sure. The Echo Fighter concept seemed like a good fit for Shadow, yet he got Assist Trophy'd anyways. Eggman (or, for that matter, any other Sonic character) does have hope for a non-Echo spot, but that's really all I can say.

in my opinion an echo fighter wouldn't do Shadow justice.

 

[Janx_uwu]

To be fair he plays exactly like Sonic in most of the games they're together in. I'm not saying he can't have his own moveset-I made one for him a while back, and many others have too-but that doesn't mean he needs one to do him "justice" (whatever that means).

 

[Otoad64]

To be fair he plays exactly like Sonic in most of the games they're together in. I'm not saying he can't have his own moveset-I made one for him a while back, and many others have too-but that doesn't mean he needs one to do him "justice" (whatever that means).

I guess, but I would rather him be a semi clone at worst.

while he plays similarly to sonic. he's also really different.

but yeah, he could be a echo if he has to be.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Nearly every major playable Sonic character bar Amy plays very similarly to Sonic, with only like one or two extra abilities on top, so going by that logic everyone who isn't Eggman or Amy could be an echo too. Just because it's technically possible doesn't mean it fits well enough that it should be done, or even be an option for that matter.

 

[Quillion]

To be fair, wouldn't everyone expect the Sonic characters to at least share the same down-B Spin Dash? At least the newer characters wouldn't be shackled by a "Ganondorf situation" where fans want moveset changes but the developers refuse to change them presumably due to not wanting to alienate older players (and I want to say that Sakurai has never directly said that he is against changing a character's moveset for that reason).

 

[Otoad64]

To be fair, wouldn't everyone expect the Sonic characters to at least share the same down-B Spin Dash? At least the newer characters wouldn't be shackled by a "Ganondorf situation" where fans want moveset changes but the developers refuse to change them presumably due to not wanting to alienate older players (and I want to say that Sakurai has never directly said that he is against changing a character's moveset for that reason).

I would expect Tails and Shadow to have it, but not Amy, and while Knuckles could have it he might not depending on how they implement his dig ability

 

[Doc Monocle]

To be fair, wouldn't everyone expect the Sonic characters to at least share the same down-B Spin Dash? At least the newer characters wouldn't be shackled by a "Ganondorf situation" where fans want moveset changes but the developers refuse to change them presumably due to not wanting to alienate older players (and I want to say that Sakurai has never directly said that he is against changing a character's moveset for that reason).

Perhaps they would not have to be exactly the same. There might be a certain charm in Amy's, Knuckle's, and Shadow's having variants of the Spin Dash, and similarly to what Otoad64 said, Knuckles would have an impressive introduction to burrowing attacks.