What tier does Samus deserve?

[Dew Rag]

Ike is a piece of ****

OMG I'M BASHING IKE



but seriously, ike can't do **** against samus, projectiles and grapple for the win
Samus may be slow, but she's way faster than ike, and ike can't do anything against a projectile spammer

 

[greenblob]

Well, hopefully there still will be good combos. If not, **** you Sakurai.

Anyway, I'm still curious about the dair. How fast is it? Is it a good spike? Is it a good launcher for a follow-up aerial?

 

[VersatileBJN]

Ike is a piece of ****

OMG I'M BASHING IKE



but seriously, ike can't do **** against samus, projectiles and grapple for the win
Samus may be slow, but she's way faster than ike, and ike can't do anything against a projectile spammer

Friend code in 2 weeks, please.

 

[Hylian]

He actually beat you in matches #5, 3, 2 and 1.

Do you read? I said I will post the videos when they are up. Did you see me post any videos in this thread after that post? Or in that post? Those are old videos. I said in the new batch he only beats me once. Way different from before when I only beat him once. Pay attention.


And I still stand by what I said. Wait for the videos to see what I mean.

 

[Dew Rag]

Friend code in 2 weeks, please.

I doubt i'm gonna get brawl the day of it's release, it's really not that fun in my opinion, plus i have a friend next door with the japanese version... so I'll be lazier in buying it, but sure, i'll play u when i do get it, if ever

lol, or if ur ever down in UIUC, come to the smashfests

 

[BentoBox]

Do you read? I said I will post the videos when they are up. Did you see me post any videos in this thread after that post? Or in that post? Those are old videos. I said in the new batch he only beats me once. Way different from before when I only beat him once. Pay attention.


And I still stand by what I said. Wait for the videos to see what I mean.

You must be familiar with the concept of pingpong. He used to **** you and now you **** him. How long will the ball stay on your side of the fence? Is your new method of approaching counter-free? Looking forward to your vids .

 

[Hylian]

You must be familiar with the concept of pingpong. He used to **** you and now you **** him. How long will the ball stay on your side of the fence? Is your new method of approaching counter-free? Looking forward to your vids .

Thing is, we played a lot of matches where we just tried to figure out if there was anything he COULD do. The only thing we came up with was picking a really small stage so that it's easier to approach samus.


But yeah I will try to get him to put them up soon.

 

[Gum]

for the last effin time, Samus is not SLOW. there is a difference between slow and floaty. Slow encompasses attack speed. Her running speed is mid range at the least, and her attacks all come out pretty **** quick. Speed also contains the whole agility factor, which Samus has all of.

 

[VersatileBJN]

I'm as excited about Samus as the next guy, but this talk of her owning Marth and Ike now is way beyond premature.

Are you guys forgetting the air dodge AND the counter?

If samus just spams the grapple all day she will be punish constantly by the counter or just air dodged. Counter is unsafe, yes, but what else does Ike/Marth have to worry about from that range.

Samus will have the missles no doubt, but I am fairly sure(not 100% sure until I get my hands on the game) that Ike/Marth will be able to counter the grapple ON REACTION, so there more than likely won't be any fear of eating a missle(which is more than likely to slow to consistently punish a missed counter anyway) or a charge shot.

Still, I am pleased that all the characters I'm looking to use at a high level are looking to be good. Samus' damage output worried me at first, but I really think she will be able to use her pokes and range to build up damage until she able to connect with a FC beam, d smash, f fmash or up tilt.

I don't see many Samus using the bombs much. No use for them this time around? Silven? Hylian?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: After looking at some videos again it seems I drastically underrated the speed in which the grapple comes out in the air. Still, throwing out a counter in grapple range is will be a safe option for both Fire Emblem boys, especially since charge shot will be counterable and they both recover from a missed counter pretty quick. Quick enough to air dodge a Samus player who faked an air grapple attempt to bait out a counter with the intention to punish with a full charged beam

 

[Gum]

I'm as excited about Samus as the next guy, but this talk of her owning Marth and Ike now is way beyond premature.

Are you guys forgetting the air dodge AND the counter?

If samus just spams the grapple all day she will be punish constantly by the counter or just air dodged. Counter is unsafe, yes, but what else does Ike/Marth have to worry about from that range.

Samus will have the missles no doubt, but I am fairly sure(not 100% sure until I get my hands on the game) that Ike/Marth will be able to counter the grapple ON REACTION, so there more than likely won't be any fear of eating a missle(which is more than likely to slow to consistently punish a missed counter anyway) or a charge shot.

Still, I am pleased that all the characters I'm looking to use at a high level are looking to be good. Samus' damage output worried me at first, but I really think she will be able to use her pokes and range to build up damage until she able to connect with a FC beam, d smash, f fmash or up tilt.

I don't see many Samus using the bombs much. No use for them this time around? Silven? Hylian?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: After looking at some videos again it seems I drastically underrated the speed in which the grapple comes out in the air. Still, throwing out a counter in grapple range is will be a safe option for both Fire Emblem boys, especially since charge shot will be counterable and they both recover from a missed counter pretty quick. Quick enough to air dodge a Samus player who faked an air grapple attempt to bait out a counter with the intention to punish with a full charged beam

this is why homing missiles are a zair's best friend.

 

[VersatileBJN]

*points to sig*

I'm black and I love Samus.

Counter can't shut down missles like it does with the charge shot?

If that's the case, they are still **** slow.

 

[Hylian]

I'm as excited about Samus as the next guy, but this talk of her owning Marth and Ike now is way beyond premature.

Are you guys forgetting the air dodge AND the counter?

If samus just spams the grapple all day she will be punish constantly by the counter or just air dodged. Counter is unsafe, yes, but what else does Ike/Marth have to worry about from that range.

Samus will have the missles no doubt, but I am fairly sure(not 100% sure until I get my hands on the game) that Ike/Marth will be able to counter the grapple ON REACTION, so there more than likely won't be any fear of eating a missle(which is more than likely to slow to consistently punish a missed counter anyway) or a charge shot.

Still, I am pleased that all the characters I'm looking to use at a high level are looking to be good. Samus' damage output worried me at first, but I really think she will be able to use her pokes and range to build up damage until she able to connect with a FC beam, d smash, f fmash or up tilt.

I don't see many Samus using the bombs much. No use for them this time around? Silven? Hylian?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: After looking at some videos again it seems I drastically underrated the speed in which the grapple comes out in the air. Still, throwing out a counter in grapple range is will be a safe option for both Fire Emblem boys, especially since charge shot will be counterable and they both recover from a missed counter pretty quick. Quick enough to air dodge a Samus player who faked an air grapple attempt to bait out a counter with the intention to punish with a full charged beam

Way beyond premature? I played this out and tested it and thought of ways to counter it for a long time. Of course we tried the counter and airdodge. They are easily countered by samus. If they counter you can just land and then hit marth as he counters your grapple. Or grab him. It's really easy. And if they airdode you can just zair then grab right when you hit the ground. The zair forces the airdodge, and since it has 0 lag you grab them right when they land out of their airdodge.

Please don't doubt me when you haven't even tested this or played the game.

Bombs are really hard to use usefully. Rohnins and I are trying to think of a way to use them though.

Also, if marth or ike counters, samus can just move backwards while zairing and the marth will counter, and then be open to anything samus has.

 

[HugS]

Like I said, IM going to make her top tier. you may not believe me, but just wait and see. She has all the ingredients of a top tier character. Of course people dont see it yet. Another thing is that people have a pre-disposition because of what they knew in Melee. This however is a whole new ballpark.

I'm sure you have a lot of experience with representing a character to its fullest potential. You're speaking as if you do. I mean you, unlike most people, can truly see what she is capable of.
Ya, Ok...

Your shield pressure approach seems near useless in a game where there is hardly any shield stun. Your description of how easy it is to land her limited KO moves seems to have no place in a game where most set up moves are non existent because of the lack of stun and presence of incredible airdodging in this game. This is also why the Nair is near useless. With so little stun, what stops a character like marth from slashing away at you after being hit while you are still in your nair animation? Your definition of speed completely ignores the presence of some newly implemented afterlag on a lot of her moves. Or were you only paying attention to the start up lag and auto cancelling? She is pretty slow.

I think you are looking at her brawl strengths in the context of melee. I am looking at her weaknesses in the context of brawl.

 

[Don Tyrant]

Lmao, I love it how hugs says Ike will suck unless Azen uses him, Azen does have a lot of knowledge, but I am pretty sure Ike will be somewhat useable at the competitive level.

 

[HugS]

Lmao, I love it how hugs says Ike will suck unless Azen uses him, Azen does have a lot of knowledge, but I am pretty sure Ike will be somewhat useable at the competitive level.

Yeah I kind of take it back, ike isn't that bad. That neutral A on the ground makes up for his short comings.

The guy that said I suck at Smash Bros and don't play as Samus...you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

I still maintain my opinions on Samus. I notice alot of you guys are forgetting what tiers are. It doesn't matter how good you play with the character you'll still be doing two to three times more work for your kills than any other character the way I see it. I'm sure alot of you guys are extremely talented and are very smart players so of course you will triumph if you work hard at it enough but I just don't see how Samus will win matches versus equal opponents if she cannot kill. I'm being very biased I know so excuse me but let's just wait for some tournaments. I would love to see if Samus' get anywhere with her opponents surviving into the 175 percentile.

And just because Hylian says Samus supposedly "destroys" Marth (which we don't know yet...) that doesn't mean Samus is high tier. Who's to say Marth is even anywhere near high tier this time around...theres alot of work to be done when it comes to comparing characters and rendering a tier list. ALOT of work... so for all we know Marth may be mid tier. Who's to say that just because he plays similar to how he played in Melee that he will be High tier. After all it IS a different game and there are different focuses now. Maybe alot of the same things Marth excelled at are not as effective in Brawl...once again who knows I'm just saying theres alot of doubt there.

...and please with your retorts try to refrain from bashing. I know I'm public enemy number 1 with this and all...so yah.

And just so you guys know I STILL PLAY Samus but she is definitely not my main...I have wayyy more luck with Ike...but I wouldn't call it Luck.

LoL man there is nothing wrong with your desire to stop maining Samus, but you're coming off a lot like Wes did back when he first "quit" samus.

He had this pompous attitude acting as if he had discovered the secrets to playing samus and figured out that she could not compete. He acted as if anyone who continued to main samus was doomed to eventually find out what he had found out so much faster; her inability to win.
He then moved on to a character that was pretty mediocre (mario) and acted as if he would change the face of the game somehow. He didn't. Just saying.

 

[Don Tyrant]

Yeah I kind of take it back, ike isn't that bad. That neutral A on the ground makes up for his short comings.

Have you gotten to try out most of the characters, just curious, I know a lot of people have been playing Brawl since it released in Japan.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Way beyond premature? I played this out and tested it and thought of ways to counter it for a long time. Of course we tried the counter and airdodge. They are easily countered by samus. If they counter you can just land and then hit marth as he counters your grapple. Or grab him. It's really easy. And if they airdode you can just zair then grab right when you hit the ground. The zair forces the airdodge, and since it has 0 lag you grab them right when they land out of their airdodge.

Please don't doubt me when you haven't even tested this or played the game.

Bombs are really hard to use usefully. Rohnins and I are trying to think of a way to use them though.

Also, if marth or ike counters, samus can just move backwards while zairing and the marth will counter, and then be open to anything samus has.

- Land and then hit Marth as he counters your grapple? You mean after he misses his counter I assume. Well, from what I've seen and read, Marth recovers from counter almost immediately after active frames.

- Characters aren't helpless out of an air dodge. What gives you the impression throwing right after an air dodge is going to be bread and butter?

Sorry if I don't take everything said here by people who own the game as law. I definitely respect your findings and look forward to playing you(tho NJ vs Texas will be laggy I dont 'mind), but I have a suspicious and curious mind by nature.

It seems a lot of your air grapple stuff is with short hopping in mind. Sorry if I still don't see how Samus will be able to consistently punish Marth/Ike for missing a counter at such a far distance(most of the time at least. I'm sure Samus players will use air grapple at close range sometimes, too, but I don't know about it's priority up close)

 

[Sonic XD]

Dojo has released samus's moves, do you think she will be mid or high tier? Maybe ZSS will be high tier?

 

[Sonic XD]

Double post

 

[VersatileBJN]

Hugs, Azen is in VA going by his location information on SWF. Since you live in Cali, have you fought Azen yet?

I'm asking because I'm wondering how the connection was if you 2 got down.

 

[Reno>]

Anyway, I'm still curious about the dair. How fast is it? Is it a good spike? Is it a good launcher for a follow-up aerial?

Dair to screw attack is a combo all in itself.

 

[Dew Rag]

just one question versitileBJN

have u even played brawl?

i can see how marth can easily best samus, considering i use both in brawl (and ike for teams), but Ike, seriously, doesn't do well if he can't get close, and even if he can, it's really easy to dodge his attacks

missile spam + grapple ***** ike

 

[HugS]

I haven't played AZEN online, I just have a general idea of how he approaches new games, and how he ***** at them.

 

[Sonic XD]

Is samus a higher tier than zss?

 

[VersatileBJN]

just one question versitileBJN

have u even played brawl?

i can see how marth can easily best samus, considering i use both in brawl (and ike for teams), but Ike, seriously, doesn't do well if he can't get close, and even if he can, it's really easy to dodge his attacks

missile spam + grapple ***** ike

Maybe you need to play Ike at a higher level and then see what you can dp vs Samus. Acting like Samus ****** Ike is set in stone after 3 weeks.

Show some vids of your Ike and I'll let you know if I'm convinced you're using the character in a way that sets him up for success. This is probably why Azen is ****** with Ike: he knows how to adapt and play a character proper.

and no, as stated on the previous page I did not play yet. I'm getting it next Saturday.

EDIT: If you do decide to purchase NTSC Brawl i'd like to play you in it. I'm sure you're a oretty good player and that's the type I'm looking to play on a consistent basis to get my game sharp quickly.

 

[BentoBox]

Is samus a higher tier than zss?

They're both bottom tier, right under Yoshi.

 

[Sonic XD]

They're both bottom tier, right under Yoshi.

This is no time for jokes.

 

[Hylian]

- Land and then hit Marth as he counters your grapple? You mean after he misses his counter I assume. Well, from what I've seen and read, Marth recovers from counter almost immediately after active frames.

- Characters aren't helpless out of an air dodge. What gives you the impression throwing right after an air dodge is going to be bread and butter?

Sorry if I don't take everything said here by people who own the game as law. I definitely respect your findings and look forward to playing you(tho NJ vs Texas will be laggy I dont 'mind), but I have a suspicious and curious mind by nature.

It seems a lot of your air grapple stuff is with short hopping in mind. Sorry if I still don't see how Samus will be able to consistently punish Marth/Ike for missing a counter at such a far distance(most of the time at least. I'm sure Samus players will use air grapple at close range sometimes, too, but I don't know about it's priority up close)

No, this is why you need to play the game. You have no idea what you are talking about.


-No, Marth will NOT miss the counter. The grapple is long enough to hit him, make him counter, and since there is no lag when you land you can just run up to marth as he does his attack animation out of his counter (which will miss samus) and do anything you want to him. Countering the grapple is pointless unless you are right in front of samus, and even then, samus can land and spotdodge because the 0 lag factor.

-Again, you have no idea what I am talking about because you haven't played the game. Do you know how airdodges work now? I am sure you do. They go with your momentum. So lets say a marth jumps at me. I zair to keep him away. He then airdodges. I land from my zair while he is still airdodging and then immediatly grapple. Marth will be grabbed due to the frames of landing lag from his airdodge. While not much, since Samus's zair has 0 frames of landing lag, the grapple comes out instantly and grabs marth.


And you don't make them miss the counter(Which is EXTREMELY laggy and easy to punish if they miss) you make them counter with zair, and they will miss samus, and then it's a free hit.

Please do not argue if you havent played the game. You cannot even compare the physics with 0 experience. I have tested and used everything I am saying in pleanty of matchs, while you are just speculating.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Fair enough. Fair enough.

I'll reserve anymore comments on the match up until I'm actually playing you or other Samus with him.

i saw video in which you were owning your friend's C.Falcon in the beginning by just punishing his aerials with a shielded up B. Later on he jumped at you, you kinda stopped doing it. Any reason behind that?

 

[BentoBox]

This is no time for jokes.

then stop asking the same ridiculous question because NO ONE KNOWS.

 

[Falconv1.0]

then stop asking the same ridiculous question because NO ONE KNOWS.

*High fives

Seriously, I cringe a little when I hear "is (name here) high tier?"
>_>

 

[Lovely]

Geez, I miss out on a lot of things in the Samus Boards, (or Smash Borards at the matter), why are we talking about tiers now?

 

[Hylian]

Fair enough. Fair enough.

I'll reserve anymore comments on the match up until I'm actually playing you or other Samus with him.

i saw video in which you were owning your friend's C.Falcon in the beginning by just punishing his aerials with a shielded up B. Later on he jumped at you, you kinda stopped doing it. Any reason behind that?

It was CF, and I was just kind of screwing around lol.

 

[Gum]

hey people lets all not forget that Samus' regular charge beam shots stun now. they stun pretty well. they can be used against marth with projectile mix-ups to set up and attack. pretty nifty.

 

[BentoBox]

Hi2U mr.lag

 

[Dew Rag]

in reality, Samus should really be in Low Mid tier

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well before the Zair stuff was found out she was bottom tier material.

But the Zair stuff pushed her up to mid tier IMO.

But I have already thought of ways to deal with it depending on the character.

Also the Zair has lag.

Land lag from a jump. 3 Frames. Nothing noteworthy but it is there.

Anyway Samus got nerfed and she didn't deserve it.

Kinda sucks cuz she was one of my fave nintendo characters, besides the FE lords.

 

[frotaz37]

But I have already thought of ways to deal with it depending on the character.

Too bad Ike isn't one of those characters right?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Oh.

It's you Frotaz.

-__-

IKE IS THE MAN **** YOU SON!!!!!!

lol.

Nah. I honestly think Ike will high tier, And I have my reasons to back it up. If you want those reasons just pm me.

 

[Psydon]

Well before the Zair stuff was found out she was bottom tier material.

But the Zair stuff pushed her up to mid tier IMO.

But I have already thought of ways to deal with it depending on the character.

Also the Zair has lag.

Land lag from a jump. 3 Frames. Nothing noteworthy but it is there.

Anyway Samus got nerfed and she didn't deserve it.

Kinda sucks cuz she was one of my fave nintendo characters, besides the FE lords.

1. Samus wasn't that bad pre-zair. >< She's an aerial combo character now; we just need to get used to that.

2. If the zair's lag isn't noteworthy why are you mentioning it? =P The zair is unstoppable!