What tier does Samus deserve?

[Eten]

Pretty sure Zair can't go into anything.

Samus has to land first.

Someone confirm this.

Anyway I tore you up in my last post.

I'm done talking to you.

No that's one of the changes from melee to brawl, you no longer have the *can't do anything* fall after a tether attack. You can tether 3x in the air before you just can't anymore if I'm not mistaken.

Not that matters, you land soon enough before then in a short hop, which is where this Zair is coming from.

 

[Dew Rag]

.....that's not what he meant, he meant u cant combo up the zair, which is actually kinda false
from the edge you can drop to jump zair to dtilt , ftilt, or usmash depending on the situation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbanrzSohog

the problem is that this tactic is that it only works once cuz it's easy to see it coming
also it only works on low percentages and depends on where u hit, it's very situational

other than that, zair can only really combo is ur really close which rarely is the case because if you were, you wouldn't be doing the zair in the first place

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

**** dis ****

I'll MM Marth v Samus both of u, eten and fullbleed, where do u both fking live

also the average death percent is around 150

if it was 110 it'd be like melee and we wouldn't have 3 stock matches

What? Please speak coherently.

 

[Dew Rag]

..... I'll money match you marth v samus nub

 

[Xyro77]

Zair can go into tilt,jabs and MAYBE smashes. This does give trouble to some character who have to be in samus face to fight. but against a GOOD marth. samus CAN not compete. face it and move on to something else.

 

[Dew Rag]

obviously fullbleed and eten think otherwise -_-

 

[Xyro77]

They both know nothing. they dont understand that at higher levels of play........in melee or brawl that samus can not keep up. Zair is a great asset to samus but this will not help her hold her previous place among the rest. she has lost WAY too much and gain way too little.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

What the hell is your problem DewRag? All I said was that Samus had a good projectile game. I have no idea how she fairs against Marth and frankly no one will untill the game has been out more than two months.net Ill face you when the game comes out, but I'm not betting money on internet video games, sorry.

 

[Emblem Lord]

No I meant in a SH Samus can't do anything else after a Zair, before landing. I don't think she has enough time to do something else.

I'm pretty sure of that. In a full jump however she is able to do another action after Zairing.

 

[Dew Rag]

What the hell is your problem DewRag? All I said was that Samus had a good projectile game. I have no idea how she fairs against Marth and frankly no one will untill the game has been out more than two months.net Ill face you when the game comes out, but I'm not betting money on internet video games, sorry.

sorry didn't mean to drag u in lol etan is ********

the game is out, japanese brawl, lol i don't know how long it will be before i get a copy cuz i already have *** version and i don't care about wifi

 

[Eten]

She's lost the sex kick power, the wavedash, and the super missile strength. She really does play differently because of that, but I don't think that makes her weak because Brawl IS very different and to accurately gauge a character you do it brawl character vs. other brawl characters, not melee vs. brawl. I'm not sure what Xyro means about Samus not keeping up in Melee though.

Btw you can go from Zair to Zair like I said I just thought it was assumed you short hopped each(you touch in between), not that you can go from one into the other. See above when I responded to the "you have to touch the ground" question about the Zair. You can Zair twice in the same full jump or something too but you don't go full jumping around with Samus normally. Even though she gets back to the ground faster and her dair isn't as bad getting people under you is baad mojo for Samus.

 

[BentoBox]

Samus vs Marth:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uibe4LCW7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syY2eiQf8xU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKhdoOX-sWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPYdDu5B7_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJFjS1JfEdM

Honestly, this isn't nearly as one-sided as you made it sound before posting these vids. If you have no room to work with from the very start, and if Marth gets in, he has a clear advantage. Just look at the first vid, you could only start using the Zair approach from the 2nd stock. Omitting Castle Siege, he beat you twice and you beat him twice. As I've said earlier, Samus destroying Marth was a gross overstatement.

 

[Subach]

So wait..wait.

What you are saying is, When Samus fanboys overestimate her because of one move that's ok.

But when I say hey guys don't jump the gun, she isn't that awesome and doesn't **** Marth..that's bad.

Ok.

I understand.

Clearly you are not one of the Samus supporters that is capable of intelligent discussion nor are you able to comprehend why I post the way I do.

Hello ignore list.

No, I'm tired of seeing you act like all superior and condescending because your a Marth player, AKA a character that is horrendously broken. Maybe I'd take if if you were god/Taj-like with a crappy character, but you act like people have ever even ONCE considered Marth as anything else but godly or broken, but that has only come to past in the fantasy world you seem to live in. You criticize us for over hyping Samus, yet you are being an utter hypocrite.
If you can't see that your over hyping Marth, your head is obviously stuck where it shouldn't be.

If you wish to discuss the facts, that's fine, if you wish to be a stuck-up fool, that isn't okay.
No matter how much I dislike you, though, I won't put you on my ignore list.
It only proves that I'm better that you.
The funny thing about you is that you don't seem to realize that people would like Marth MORE if he actully had a weakness to speak of.

I realize that Samus is turning out to be one of, perhaps THE crappiest character in the whole ****ed game, but as a fan of her character and not her body, I still have hope she'll turn out alright.
Is that so bad?

#1 a lot of samus players are ******* (no offense to some of u)

#2 Marth is better than samus. Sure she has some moves that she can use to her advantage but overall, if both players are at the same skill level, Marth will dominate

#1. Hey, at least I can use proper grammar.
#2. Sure thing, it only makes sense that Sakurai would sell the series popular in Japan more so than some series popular in America that he knows nothing about. Or, scratch that, he'd only sell the part of the series that has universal appeal, AKA armorless Samus.
Funnily enough though, Samus's voice sounds deeper than Marth.
If the teir was based on manliness, than Samus would destroy Marth for sure.
That's pretty sad for Marth, who has only become MORE flamboyant since Melee.

 

[Pi]

'Tires don exits'

I think this phrase applies particularly to OUR teir lists, because of the way they are made (based off of tournament results).

Any way.


Yes, marth is gay.
Yes, marth is a better character.
But it doesn't matter.


There are so many types of skill to consider in a match, there is pretty much always a way to not get hit, which shielding and air dodging being so great now, and super armor provided by grabs. I think that's the only reason this game seems more 'balanced'.

If a marth and a samus of equal skill level played, the samus would get dominated. Samus users have to work a hell of a lot harder than marth users to beat them, but that's your choice. I doubt if one move is going to give us some huge advantage over marth, but I'm not saying it isn't going to help.


If you're playing this game for fun then I think having a character that isn't 'the best' or 'top teir' is good, because it provides a huge challenge, and when you do beat those 'high teirs' its a hell of a lot more satisfying. I mean the teir list basically states that #1 should beat #2, and #1 & #2 should beat #3, and so forth. So when #10 beats #3 it's so much more fun!

But if you're playing this game to win, then play marth or fox or something.

 

[Doomgaze]

After the vs Marth thread I played a lot more vs Marths and the zair worked well.. for a while.

I think the zair will "destroy" only _weaker_ marths. Try playing a decent one, I know it doesn't take long before they learn how to get around the typical zair approach/retreat. If you miss even ONE zair you can say hello to fair combos. Now weight that against each that you do hit with.. 4%~damage without no effective follow up.

Like I've been saying earlier, Samus SH is short, yes, but it's also slow. There's enough delay between her landing grapples for a marth to maneuver around, and eventually close in on her.

Also SH zair doesn't combo into anything -_- sometimes you can ftilt as you land but most of the times Zair is not used for close range like that. Removing all lag but landing lag sure sounds sweet but it can not be used like good old SHL.

Missiles? Too slow and/or can be repelled easily with the sword.

Grab? Even slower. Try this and you will have a fsmash for dinner.

Samus has a lot of other viable moves but not going into detail right now.

However I'm not saying that the matchup is horribly inbalanced, but I still think it's slightly in Marths favour at best.

EDIT: Also, there's no way Samus kills frequently at or before 110% in this particular matchup.

 

[Xyro77]

Lets be honest here. EVERY character board over-hype that character. In this case, you 2006-2008 users are doing the same thing. You will learn that samus is not GOOD but not horrible. You will alo learn that while Zair is usefull and neat, it will not tunr the tides of battle. This will be proven true then u are fighting little characters that are fast.

 

[Pi]

Pretty much what I'm hearing is samus is going to be ranked roughly the same as in melee. Good but not great?

 

[Dew Rag]

marth is better why are we still on this topic
samus will most likely be low or mid tier ok? lol
I think it's pretty obvious for people that own brawl and have been playing it for the past month

 

[Mr. M]

God tier, duhhhh.


Nah, from what I've seen, she's basically screwed over. This isn't the Samus I remember. And no, before you say it, I don't wavedash, and I rarely L-cancelled (because I thought before I leapt, unlike y'all. )

She's weaker, period. There arn't many redeming features to her anymore. Hell, I think I'm going to drop her as my main. We'll see I guess. But from what I have seen, I'm not impressed. Samus lost her touch.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Subach: So pretty much everything you said is just the rant of a fanboy. I never once made a claim about how great Marth is without solid evidence, unlike you with Samus.

And the intelligent Samus players seem to agree wtih hat I'm saying about Marth and the match-up sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Yeah.

Your ****ing stupid, man.

Seriously, stop posting.

You are an idiot and make Samus fans look bad.

Including me. Yes, I'm a fan of her or why else would I lurk on this boards. I love her games. Stop acting like an idiot. You are shaming everyone in this forum with your ignorance.

Also I don't care about people liking Marth more. That's not what being a true fan is about.

A true fan accepts whatever strenghts and weaknesses their character may have. They don't delude themselves and they don't care if people jump on the bandwagon just cuz they are top tier or w/e.

Marth is one of the bravest, most heroic heroes in Nintendo history. Despite being a prince he has had hard life. He is a great man, and that's why I'm a fan of his.

Him being top tier, is secondary.

Anyway, your last post further proved your idiocy.

Anyone in this forum could see that since no one is agreeing with you.

BTW, I never once insulted Samus or her character. But you did just that to Marth.

And I'm the condescending one?

****ing moron.

 

[Hylian]

Pretty sure Zair can't go into anything.

Samus has to land first.

Someone confirm this.

Anyway I tore you up in my last post.

I'm done talking to you.

Zair can go into anything actually. You can use it 3 times in the air >_>.


Also, eten was right about one thing, samus does control the pace of this match, much as Falco controlled the pace of most of his match-ups in melee. I have tons of experience with samus and unless I am playing a zelda or pit I have never had probelms controlling the pace of the match.

Everything else eten was pretty much wrong.


In my opinion Samus has the advantage in this match-up 60-40. I have thought a lot about this, and played more and I really don't see how marth could have the advantage.

I mean, he has to get around zair.
He has to get around her up-B out of shield or in general.
He has a horrible grab game.
He has almost no way to set up a kill against samus easily.
If he messes up he can take nasty damage really fast from things like zair ---> chargeshot --grab --> dthrow --> up B fair or uair.


She just has so many options that marth does not. She forces him to approach which is important against marth and has many defensive options when he get inside her.

Did you know you can jab a marth before his fair comes out? Behind you? Her jab is amazing and resets like every move. I haven't even really mentioned this to people yet haha.

I could argue a bunch of reason for marth being able to do things to samus. I already have to myself. But every time I do I just come up with twice as many things samus could do. She just has more options this match-up.

Even if it isn't in samus's advantage, it is defenitly harder for marth much like how a lot of people consider marth vs shiek in melee to be even but marth just has to work harder.


Those are my thoughts anyways.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Anyone who thinks Marth vs Shiek is even is a crack fiend.

 

[Dew Rag]

samus doesn't control the match-up hylian u need to face better marths

the vids of ur friend's marth doesn't represent marth very well

no offense to both of you
and marth does have a lot of options -_-
w/e i'm tired of dis pointless crap
i'll go back to my video thread and just lurk around posting more vids =_=

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hylian:

Falco did control the pace of his match-ups.

Most agree that Falco vs Marth is even or even slightly in Marth's favor.

Just putting that out there.

But...I'm done here anyway.

 

[Rohins]

I'm pretty sure emblem was talking about short hop zair and not being able to do anything until you land.

I don't have too much experience vs many marths. It's an ok match up, zair helps a bit but I feel just being able to do moves out of shield in general has made it easier to deal with.

In general, I've found zair to work really well vs people who aren't used to it. Once people adapt it loses its shock value. Granted it's a great move, but it doesn't really "fix" Samus' main problems.

I feel Samus' main problems are: lack of strong kill moves and lack of setups for her already weak kill moves. Up angled fsmash and bair are her two best kill moves. Fsmash in general is hard to land. For the most part I hit with it when I'm punishing, rarely set it up. Bair again is hard to hit with. The time the hitbox is out is pretty short and there's no guaranteed way (that I know of) to set it up. Best I can come up with is punishing a roll on a platform.

 

[Hylian]

Hylian:

Falco did control the pace of his match-ups.

Most agree that Falco vs Marth is even or even slightly in Marth's favor.

Just putting that out there.

But...I'm done here anyway.

Huh? I am aware of almost every match-up in melee lmao. I know falco controlled the pace...thats why I said he did.


And generally, Marth vs Falco is slightly in marths favor, only because of stage counterpicks. Marth counters falco on FD. The actual match-up is pretty even.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Zair can go into anything actually. You can use it 3 times in the air >_>.


Also, eten was right about one thing, samus does control the pace of this match, much as Falco controlled the pace of most of his match-ups in melee. I have tons of experience with samus and unless I am playing a zelda or pit I have never had probelms controlling the pace of the match.

Everything else eten was pretty much wrong.


In my opinion Samus has the advantage in this match-up 60-40. I have thought a lot about this, and played more and I really don't see how marth could have the advantage.

I mean, he has to get around zair.
He has to get around her up-B out of shield or in general.
He has a horrible grab game.
He has almost no way to set up a kill against samus easily.
If he messes up he can take nasty damage really fast from things like zair ---> chargeshot --grab --> dthrow --> up B fair or uair.


She just has so many options that marth does not. She forces him to approach which is important against marth and has many defensive options when he get inside her.

Did you know you can jab a marth before his fair comes out? Behind you? Her jab is amazing and resets like every move. I haven't even really mentioned this to people yet haha.

I could argue a bunch of reason for marth being able to do things to samus. I already have to myself. But every time I do I just come up with twice as many things samus could do. She just has more options this match-up.

Even if it isn't in samus's advantage, it is defenitly harder for marth much like how a lot of people consider marth vs shiek in melee to be even but marth just has to work harder.


Those are my thoughts anyways.

Hylian has proven hes a good Samus player with his videos. Obviously, Samus is still a good character, and for all those saying that she doesn't stand a chance against Marth, I'd like to see you play Marth and take on Hylian.

Marth doesn't have projectiles. Samus does, and she also has Z air. Using grapple/missle/charge shot combos in the right order can absolutely destroy Marth. I've seen it done in Hylians videos.

And honestly, Dew Rag, Emblem, you guys are acting like children. This is what you deal with when you play console games online, which is why I mainly play PC games.

 

[Xyro77]

Full bleed. Marth HAS and always WILL be better than samus. Your too poop faced to know that. Marths sword destroys missle. duck or jump over or shield slide the tip of Zair. Marth has options.


2ndly, marth can combo the poop out of samus. FACE IT, your poop and u know nothing about WTF you are saying. No to mention your a 2008 member...........this is 100% evidence your poop.

And just to shut your moron self up. ill play hylian with marth just so i make realize you dont know F.


PS: your a poop face

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Full bleed. Marth HAS and always WILL be better than samus. Your too poop faced to know that. Marths sword destroys missle. duck or jump over or shield slide the tip of Zair. Marth has options.


2ndly, marth can combo the poop out of samus. FACE IT, your poop and u know nothing about WTF you are saying. No to mention your a 2008 member...........this is 100% evidence your poop.

And just to shut your moron self up. ill play hylian with marth just so i make realize you dont know F.


PS: your a poop face

I suspected I'd deal with idiots like you when I signed up for this forum. If you want to be taken seriously, learn some proper grammar and punctuation first.

 

[Dew Rag]

just so u know, no one seriously writes with proper grammar in a forum
and if YOU want to be taken seriously, go to tournaments, play in smashfests, and meet more people and don't talk like you know what ur talking about when you dont

 

[Xyro77]

I suspected I'd deal with idiots like you when I signed up for this forum. If you want to be taken seriously, learn some proper grammar and punctuation first.

When SWF becomes English 1301 i will. until then, your a poop face and u stil dont know what yur talking about.

 

[Pi]

Spoiler

I don't think proper grammar or punctuation should effect the message a person is trying to get across, but I do think that insults do .

The main points in this argument have already been covered, let's move on shall we?

There's nothing left to solve by arguing over the internet, you'll have to take it to the Wii! On the 9th we can settle all the arguments, eh?

 

[Xyro77]

Ah there is one 2008 member that i honestly can agee with.^^^^^^^

 

[Dew Rag]

Hylian has proven hes a good Samus player with his videos. Obviously, Samus is still a good character, and for all those saying that she doesn't stand a chance against Marth, I'd like to see you play Marth and take on Hylian.

Marth doesn't have projectiles. Samus does, and she also has Z air. Using grapple/missle/charge shot combos in the right order can absolutely destroy Marth. I've seen it done in Hylians videos.

And honestly, Dew Rag, Emblem, you guys are acting like children. This is what you deal with when you play console games online, which is why I mainly play PC games.

#1 you don't prove that your a good samus player with videos, you prove it by placing well in tournaments and gaining people's respect from playing them

#2 I would take on hylian marth v samus but burned copy of brawl in japanes and etc doesn't work and considering he lives in texas while i live in the north .... um... not gonna work

#3 the reason u've seen "combos" against marth is cuz the marth player isn't really that great of a marth player

#4 and honestly ur the one acting like a child trying to convince older and more experienced players that you know how to play better than we do

#5 sorry kniht just had to retort

 

[Xyro77]

when it comes to match ups. its a given marth will be a challenge for samus. the new version of falco will give her problems too.

By the way, the zair is a good thing to know how to use to keep fools at a distance but what will TRULY change the way samus plays is the sheild canceling. this is semi WD. if u use it in the same way u did WD, you can do tilts smashes,or charge shot if need be.

 

[Dew Rag]

actually u can approach anyone really well by wavedashing, that's why zair doesn't work once someone catches on

well not exactly wavedashing but doing the same thing as u would if you were wavedashing
short hop airdodge and then airdodge again on ur way down

 

[Hylian]

Most of the things I am seeing here are stupid.


Dew rag, you are just plain wrong in a lot of cases and so are you TGM.


Stop assuming things.


PLEASE. This is horrible to read. You two are not acting rationally at all. It's obvious neither of you has much experience in brawl so stop arguing.

 

[Xyro77]

*adds hylian to poop list*

 

[Dew Rag]

wow... hylian u obviously don't read or have a shallow view of brawl or w/e

gg, lost respect for u

 

[Hylian]

wow... hylian u obviously don't read or have a shallow view of brawl or w/e

gg, lost respect for u

No, YOU obviously don't read.

I have even written two succesful articles on brawl. How could you say I have a shallow view? It's obvious that you don't fully understand the competitve aspects of this game and don't have much experience with it, yet you are talking like everything you say is absolute. I have tested and played out everything I am saying for many hours and discussed it with many really good players. I don't just go around forums agreeing with people and bashing others.


Instead of promoting intellegent discussion you are just completly throwing out others opinions and acting like a child. Do I really want a childs respect? The answer should be obvious.


With this kind of attitude you are going to get no where in competitve play. Try being open to discussion rather then just sealing your opinions in cement.