What tier does Samus deserve?

[FuLLBLeeD]

wow... hylian u obviously don't read or have a shallow view of brawl or w/e

gg, lost respect for u

Wow...I thought the Smash community would be better then the rest of the console kiddies. Guess I'm wrong. This doesn't go for all of you, just the two kids that seem to have a stiffy for a flamboyant fictional swordsman. And honestly, no, I never played melee competitively, but just my your attitude I can tell you're probably not nearly as great as you say you are. I'm just making observations based on videos, you are babbling incoherently that I don't know anything. Uh, I don't claim to be the best Samus buddy, I'm just saying that Hylian is a good Samus and can obviously hold his ground against a good Marth. If you want to babble about that tier list crap, thats fine, don't do it to me.

So DewRag, if you keep sh*ttalking others maybe you should actually 1v1 them and back your crap up. If you don't buy the USA version, then I'm never going to play you, so you can shut up. Hylian on the other hand, I sent you a PM. I'm hoping you will add me to your friends list and show me a few things with Samus once the game comes out.

And to the kid thats calling me a poop head..honestly, go back to Halo 2 and leave the rest of us alone. The low entry barrier for consoles lets all sorts of morons get into online play...which is the reason I prefer PC games. My registration date doesn't anything, I'm not the one that keeps coming off like a tard.

 

[Phazon_Dude]

Top. This "community" is really sucking...

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Okay, guys, not to add injury to insult, but seriously, the samus boards is one of the worst right now with the exception of phanna, hylain, and rohins (me included but i don't have game so i can't really inform anybody on anything, but whatever)

This thread is "what tier does samus deserve" not "omg zair totally counters marth so she's top tier"(im not making fun of anybody, im just pissed how this has turned into a samus vs marth thread, not tier based thread)

There are many aspects in which to look at somebody's tier position. Regardless of how amazing zair is, the other parts will overcome her zair and make her low of mid/high of low, at least for now. (Just to throw it out there, my brother suggested a combo, SH double nair, to the run reverse aerial bair. Not sure if it works, somebody test plz.)

1) MAIN POINT: Killing potential as compared to other characters. You may be able to combo to hell and get percentages to over 150% easily, (exaggerating, but you get my point) but if you can't land a killing move, its useless. Samus has....4-5 okay killing moevs, F-Smash, beam, dtilt, dsmash, u-tilt. That doesn't give a lot of variery, and utilt and d-smash are very hard to land from personal experience. Then again, i haven't played the game for too long so i hope to experiment after i can just experiment instead of playing pikachu so i don't get kicked of the system. Samus, i think, has one of the WORST killing potentials in the game. Since she has such limited kill moves, the opponent can play cautiously at high percents to avoid those, since they all have fairly short range.

2) Recovery: Thankfully, samus still has a pretty good recovery, even though the auto-sweetspot grapple makes it rather annoying to tether recovery if somebody is hanging on the ledge...but her up-b makes up for that. She is quite mobile in the air compared to the rest of the cast, so she has an edge on most people.

3) comboability: Samus has decent comboability from what i have seen, but then again, practically nobody has any comboability, so samus has an advantage in this area compared to others.

4) Character Matchups: Probably the least influential part of determining tiers, cuz if you are a good character, you will have good matchups, so its kinda one then the other. If she has an advantage on a high tier, good for her, but most people play more than one character on the off-chance they play somebody who has an advantage on their main...so that advantage is partially neutralized.

5) spacing: The only type of spacing i have seen from a samus so far is zair...which once adapted to, can be easily shielded, since its pretty predictable. Eventually, poeple will start avoiding it, and based on the way hylian plays, samus will be screwed, or so i think...might be completely wrong cuz every time i play samus, my opponents so far haven't let me try anything, and i play a kirby so its kinda short to zair...so i never really tried so far.

Being good against 1 or 2 high tier characters doesn't make samus any higher than her ability to perform against the MAJORITY of the cast allows. My fingers hurt after 20 minutes of writing this. Commence flaming, or whatever you guys want, but the only people i really listen to are hylian, phanna, and rohins anyway, cuz they are the 3 smartest on these rapidly deteriorating boards. Sometimes id rather just go on aim (even though i dont' have one) and just talk to phanna about it.....if i could yadayada. Btw, if anybody wants me to give them their friend code after, just pm me *cough phanna/rohins cough* Hylians would be nice too ^_^

 

[Falconv1.0]

Wow..poor Samus boards...>_>

It used to be this bad in the Ike boards...yikes.

I never really used Samus, but I always enjoyed seeing a good Samus because of the awesome stuff she could do. I really hope people find ways to become really good as her...

Still, I fear she may end up in low tier, with ZSamus in higher area of mid tier.

 

[ESAM]

btw, for people who couldn't figure it out, im esam....so don't say i joined feb 2008 or whatever, but i like the name esam better, i wish i could transfer my info on there...but i can't so whatever.

 

[JEW RAG]

how bout we all just start over and if u want to argue about marth/samus and how great she is against marth we talk about it in the marth vs thread
no more talk about crap


one thing i want to address is diminishing returns or stale moves
stale moves only keeps track for 9 hits before reset

for example:
you grab and hit 8 times and throw and it will reset ur fair if u've been using fair too much

any spammable moves to reset?

cuz i know most people like to grab and do 8 hits quickly and throw but with samus that's a problem

maybe uncharged b? or... bombs?

 

[ESAM]

Hm...thats really helpful, i never knew how many you actually needed to reset the stale moves, nice jew rag.

 

[Pi]

Alright finally back on track! I hope....

Everyone seems pretty chill right now....Emblem Lord and Dew Rag (no offence but you didn't 'have' to retort ), I get your guys points but you do realize that arguing about who's a better player over the internet solves nothing? I don't think anyone can really say with 100% certainty that someone is dead wrong, I apreciate the info you've brought, about how marth can counter it if people would look at it it might actually be helpful xD.

But any way, if you did actually agree with me that all the major points are covered then could you two refrain from arguing about the match ups any more? This doesn't just go for you guys though, this goes for everyone, this thread isn't for that . We'll just have to wait and see how samus does against marth in tourny's and stuff.



Also, Hylian IS a good samus player, there's no doubt about that but again there isn't much we can do to rank him until we get some tourny's going! So let's hope for the best and stay back on track and see what we can make out of samus, eh?


@Jew_Rag, so long as you use (and connect) with any move 9 times, the moves that you did NOT use get completely reset? So say...you shoot 11 homing missles, and 9 out of the 11 connect, every other move got reset back to 100% KB and damage? But homing is at like... I think it's 50%? Or say if you hit with 5 Homing missles, and 4 (un)charged shots, every OTHER move is completely reset? But Homing and (un)charged both have lossed some power?




Also, how do you catch items in the air?

 

[JEW RAG]

if u shoot 11 homing it'll stay at the same power as the 9th missile, you'd have to do 9 other moves to reset so that the missiles are back to full strength

to catch items in the air, u press z

 

[Eten]

I dunno about using bombs, they aren't too great to use because of some weird changes to the move, but for resetting stale moves really you should only worried about resetting the KO moves. A combo move can actually make less knockback useful, but either way it won't ruin you like a stale KO move could. But Samus doesn't have any real overlap on her KO moves- fsmash, bair, uptilt edgeguard, charge shot, are usually easily saved for when you get the opponent setup for a KO w/ damage being built up by everything else. Her best "battery" moves are likely her missiles and Zair, but she isn't like some other characters who's KO moves also tend to be extremely important moves for other things too.

 

[infernovia]

I say samus is top tier for fun. Who's with me?

lol, but seriously, Hylian has a really nice Samus. When I saw it in action, it definitely seemed like a good wall and 'GTFO' thing that a range character really needs. I won't talk about how good it is though because I haven't played.

 

[Mr. M]

I won't talk about how good it is though because I haven't played.

That's the problem right now. Most of us experienced Samus users from Melee/64 are still waiting to try her in Brawl. I've been playing a lot of Smash 64, and I've noticed, Sakurai has just turned back time a little and made her more like her 64 self rather then her Melee self, in a sort of sense.


Hopefully, Samus will win me that Gamestop tournament.

Oh and, if Bombs can still be used for a counter bomb jump (it blows up on the enemy, and you get pushed away), then fighting in this game with Samus could be pretty broken at times, if used correctly. Of course, I'm not sure though, because I haven't played. argh, Brawl couldn't come out any sooner.

 

[Pi]

Do your moves have to connect in order to reset? Or can they just be shot/preformed?

And does deterioration occur if your moves do not connect?


And is pressing Z the only way? I thought I heard you could press A, or air dodge...

 

[Eten]

Moves only count if they hit for any sort of damage %.
Shielded hits don't count. Moves that don't hit anything don't count. That's for both resets and deterioration. That also means for things like Luigi's up-B where it can be sweetspotted for a firejumppunch or missed for a single coin, it counts the same to that up-B move either way, so I'm guessing uncharged charge shots have the same impact to the charge shot move as fully charged shot. You can reset any move as long as you don't use that move for 10(or 9?) consective hits of anything else(even if it is all just jabs or something).

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Ill say it now, the tier list can suck a throbbing vieny ****. Samus will do well in tournaments because people will make her do well in tournaments. Theres actual skill involved in playing Samus, where as anyone with basic motor skills can be a Marth Master.

 

[Hylian]

Check out my new topic. I was going to post it here but it is too important and people who haven't been following this thread won't read it.

 

[Xyro77]

Ill say it now, the tier list can suck a throbbing vieny ****. Samus will do well in tournaments because people will make her do well in tournaments. Theres actual skill involved in playing Samus, where as anyone with basic motor skills can be a Marth Master.

wow, just wow. you are truly a perfect example of the title....smash n00b

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

wow, just wow. you are truly a perfect example of the title....smash n00b

Care to 1v1 when the game comes out?

 

[Xyro77]

FullBleed, if you are truly seious about that challenge......i GLADLY accept. Plz PM your bawl number, i will do the same.

 

[JEW RAG]

Ill say it now, the tier list can suck a throbbing vieny ****. Samus will do well in tournaments because people will make her do well in tournaments. Theres actual skill involved in playing Samus, where as anyone with basic motor skills can be a Marth Master.

false that ****

 

[okiyama]

I vote whatever tier the BRoom give her.

Seriously though, we don't decide the tiers, the BRoom does.

 

[Xyro77]

We the people decide where she goes....based on how well we use her and place.

 

[X Megadragon]

I guess. As board members we can influence the Broom's decisions.

After seeing all of these new Samus discoveries (Charge shot from perfectshield, double homing missiles, homing missile recovery for throwing off edgeguarders, Zairing, "Ken Combo", no aerial lag, triple tether recovery, single bomb jump, quick dash animations) I definitely believe Samus should be at least High Tier. Samus should hold the title for most advanced techniques, like her SSBM title. And she should definitely also hold the title for best approach, instead of Falco this time.

 

[Xyro77]

u can have all the techs but if they arnt too helpful, its a waste. just like super-wavedashing. i cant tell u how many times thats never worked on me. its a useless advance tech.

 

[JEW RAG]

i doubt she'll be high tier considering the many that are so much better than her

mid low seems about right

high and top is more like Marth, Dedede, Diddy, Pit, Metaknight, Olimar, Wolf, Snake (mind games son), Peach, Toon Link, Zelda

there are probably gonna be changes to taht but those char have the potential to be really really good

 

[X Megadragon]

Meh.

@Xyro: Just because you can't execute a SWD... it doesn't render it useless. Samus pros can use SWD to their advantage, it's a fact.

@Jewrag: Samus can counter Marth I've heard. Olimar... yeah, that's a different story. Samus isn't the best character, but once again, can place in the high tier IMO. And BTW, Snake's attacks... are too situational IMO and Samus would probably have an advantage. She has some of her own mindgames too, you know.

 

[Xyro77]

I can do SWD, not hard once u get it down.

its super obviously when they start to do it so no one falls for it(unless your pretty slow or mentaly ********)

PS: i am pro

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

I guess. As board members we can influence the Broom's decisions.

After seeing all of these new Samus discoveries (Charge shot from perfectshield, double homing missiles, homing missile recovery for throwing off edgeguarders, Zairing, "Ken Combo", no aerial lag, triple tether recovery, single bomb jump, quick dash animations) I definitely believe Samus should be at least High Tier. Samus should hold the title for most advanced techniques, like her SSBM title. And she should definitely also hold the title for best approach, instead of Falco this time.

You can't make any summation on tier hierarchy if you don't know what tools the other characters have, especially this early in the metagame.

Perfect Shield is far from Samus exclusive and I'm sure there are many characters can use it much better than Samus can, once everything is figured out.

 

[JEW RAG]

i've been playing with a lot of people for a while and i think we all decided samus doesn't really counter marth

it's like ike, once u figure out u can projectile spam him and run away from him before he does his smash, it's easy

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

PS: i am pro

ROFL