What tier does Samus deserve?

[Wildfire393]

hmm. it doesnt matter. her shots come out just fast enough to kill the arrows right before they reach her. fact.

Alright. But that still doesn't change the fact that you simply CAN'T use the Zair and Homing missiles as a keep-at-bay/harrassment/damage-building technique against him, or he just counters with arrows. And those were the techniques you were touting as making this character so high-tierworthy.

 

[Gum]

you can actually use homing missiles. her initial jump is high enough to avoid the arrow arch and still fire missiles. but i digress.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Pit can control his arrows.

So it's not as simple as Samus can just jump to avoid them.

Light arrows are a pain.

 

[Gum]

Pit can control his arrows.

So it's not as simple as Samus can just jump to avoid them.

Light arrows are a pain.

i know but you can jump forward and avoid the arrow arch like i said. her initial jump is pretty high. again i digress.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think she would be better off jumping forward and doing an airdodge followed by a Zair or a homing missile.

 

[Hylian]

Samus vs Marth teaser:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syY2eiQf8xU

 

[Waka_Waka_do_do_yea]

Samus vs Marth teaser:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syY2eiQf8xU

Do you think grapple cancel will become a big thing? Or are you just fooling around in all your vids >.< .

 

[Paradigm]

Holy crap people are going to hate us Samus players so much ( :

Good stuff, Hylian.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Samus vs Marth teaser:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syY2eiQf8xU

You definitely have the most advanced and knowledgeable Brawl Samus so far. Mega Props to you! *bows*

 

[gdtyrael]

I cant believe ppl still have not realized that theres NO tier list on Brawl, all chars are playeble now, yes there are better ones but the gap is so close compared to the worst one that a tier list will be useless

 

[Xyro77]

Hylian, dont argue with them. Do what i did, just **** and become the best samus in tx.


Personaly, i dont think samus will be in High tier anymore. too many nerfs in my opinion. but to say shes low or bottom........thats stretching it.

 

[X Megadragon]

That Zair was used very well. It's godly. :O

 

[Emblem Lord]

I cant believe ppl still have not realized that theres NO tier list on Brawl, all chars are playeble now, yes there are better ones but the gap is so close compared to the worst one that a tier list will be useless

Do you know what a tier list is?

 

[shadydentist]

Do you know what a tier list is?

I'm sure he's implying that every tournament will end in a 35- way tie between all the characters.

<.<


>.>

 

[Hylian]

Samus vs Marth:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uibe4LCW7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syY2eiQf8xU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKhdoOX-sWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPYdDu5B7_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJFjS1JfEdM

 

[Spyckie]

zair approach... lol.

I love it in the second-to-last match how marth was thinking about how to counter the z-air or approach effectively and then just gave up. He can't sit either because he's got nothing to spam.

Too good.

This just means that player's skills and knowledge of the matchups will be more important than characters themselves (or just, people with z-airs will wipe the floor). I think people will no longer 'main' character, but rather have a set of characters that they're good at to counter other people's choices.

 

[Xyro77]

zair approach... lol.

I love it in the second-to-last match how marth was thinking about how to counter the z-air or approach effectively and then just gave up. He can't sit either because he's got nothing to spam.

Too good.

This just means that player's skills and knowledge of the matchups will be more important than characters themselves (or just, people with z-airs will wipe the floor). I think people will no longer 'main' character, but rather have a set of characters that they're good at to counter other people's choices.

it will be the same as melee and 64. you will have people who MAIN a character and stay only with that character. Then you will have people who will have multiple characters. same as melee and 64

 

[Hylian]

it will be the same as melee and 64. you will have people who MAIN a character and stay only with that character. Then you will have people who will have multiple characters. same as melee and 64

What he is saying is that one character is not going to be able to handel the entire cast most likely. Which is not the case in ssb and ssbm. In brawl it seems like every character might have a hard counter that is almost as hard as shiek vs bowser in melee. Therefor you would have to play more then one character to do well in tournaments.

Also, since this game requires much less technical skill, learning chracters will overall be easier and it will be to your advantage to know how to play several characters.

 

[Xyro77]

ah i see but i disagree. I stick with horrible samus. Im on the hunt........im after YOU^

 

[Eten]

So like what? I see Samus as dominating characters like Luigi and Marth, who are without projectiles and are not small. Their basic short hop aerial approach is shut down hard. I see other characters who have dominate projectile game and range like Samus to be similar, such as Link and Snake and Zelda, if of different strengths. I see small characters like Kirby and Pikachu as dominating these characters due to their nature of being so evasive.

And conveniently, I see these lightweights being dominated by the first group again, characters like Luigi and Marth and Metaknight who have the range, power and priority and overpower the smaller characters. Would anyone else consider this accurate?

 

[Xyro77]

marth is better than samus in this game. always will be.

 

[Emblem Lord]

^^^^This.

Seriously.

Do you really think that this shuts down Marth?

Marth has alot of options to approach.

SHing is just one.

But since he can't just SH all day you think Samus rocks Marth or something?

The Samus board amuses me.

 

[Eten]

Yes.
I followed your analysis of the Zair and Samus vs. Marth in the other thread. The rising, peak, and falling Zair was a good classification that imho should be adopted around here. And you came up with decent counters to it.

But that was just the Zair. A whole game of spacing and pacing through missiles into Zair and finally shield into up-B against Marth's main form of approach- any sort of jump towards the opponent: makes it completely in Samus's favor. I'm not sure if you've played against a good Samus w/ those moves yet as marth, but when you do it should be clear by playing that it's an uphill battle for Marth just due to his difficulty in approach- the matchup is Samus's game, not Marth's. Relatively there are characters with hell of a lot better options vs. Samus on approach than that. Let alone that some of Samus's moves like her dtilt actually outranges marth.

Remember, marth != marth anymore. Relatively to other characters Marth isn't the "marth" of brawl, which is a feeling I'm getting waay too much around here.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Thing is this....the match-up only got harder for Marth when Zair was discovered. Before that when I saw matches of Marth vs Samus it was heavily in Marth's favor.

Very heavily.

IMO, it's even right now. Cuz once Marth gets in he has advantage from what I'm seeing.

But if she can keep him out then it's her game.

I'm not saying Marth ***** Samus. I'm saying Samus doesn't **** Marth.

I just get sick of seeing Samus players spew things like Marth gets owned by Samus and such and such.

It's simply not true.

Also I already talked about the whole range thing. Range is most important vs slow characters.

Against someone that can penetrate that range it has less of an impact.

This is funny to me because like I said in my thread, before Zair was discovered alot of Samus mains were on the verge of abandoning her.But when it was found all of a sudden you have Samus players talking about all her "good" moves, the same moves that they were condenming before.

This is the truth. Samus was nerfed. Hard. So hard that it demoralized the Samus community. But when zair was found it motivated the Samus community again. So much in fact that people took a second look at her moves and said hey, her moves are pretty ok.

But now since you know Zair is amazing, you have people over hyping Samus and saying how great her other moves are and what not. Samus has the same moves as she did before Zair was discovered. Zair didn't make her moves more amazing. It just got Samus mains pumped and forced them to really think about Samus as a character.

This is what I think. Samus has decect moves. But this Zair thing is getting to your heads.

Really think about it. Missiles? Marth has never had trouble with missiles. And overall Marth's close range game > Samus's close range game.

Zair is what makes this harder for Marth.

Please make no mistake.

 

[Subach]

Emblem lord, I am becoming very tired of your condescending attitude.
Please forgive us if we Samus fans want to have ****ing evidence that Samus hasn't been sold out to hormone driven idiots by Sakurai. If you want to be a fanboy of a broken character, do it in the appropriate board.

 

[Phazon_Dude]

I think I can play the new Samus even better than the old, despite the loss of super missile spam and also Crouch Canceling. I've always played more defensive, mind games and won many of my matches against "pros"... yeah.... so I guess I will be the one the REVOLUTIONIZE Samus and bring her to the top!!

Isn't there already a Marth vs Samus thread? Why are people talking about that topic here?

 

[Emblem Lord]

So wait..wait.

What you are saying is, When Samus fanboys overestimate her because of one move that's ok.

But when I say hey guys don't jump the gun, she isn't that awesome and doesn't **** Marth..that's bad.

Ok.

I understand.

Clearly you are not one of the Samus supporters that is capable of intelligent discussion nor are you able to comprehend why I post the way I do.

Hello ignore list.

 

[Dew Rag]

#1 a lot of samus players are ******* (no offense to some of u)

#2 Marth is better than samus. Sure she has some moves that she can use to her advantage but overall, if both players are at the same skill level, Marth will dominate

and don't say i don't know **** cuz i've been playing since japanese brawl came out, and seriously Samus is in the low tier, maybe mid tier at best

marth is by far in top tier, or god tier lol

and people that haven't played the game at all yet... why are u even arguing from just videos?

 

[Eten]

Zair is what makes this harder for Marth.

Please make no mistake.

Exactly. Being outranged by Samus and being unable to outcamp Samus he's got to rely on his limited approach in brawl, and Zair hurts that big. Samus now has control of this match up. It's his weakness of no projectile and lack of flexibility that's going to make this a painful matchup for Marth, and he doesn't have his core super-ridiculous KO power and range anymore to compensate, just his speed and disjointed hitbox sword.

 

[Dew Rag]

no samus doesnt have control of this matchup

it's like saying anyone that has projectiles has control of a matchup which isn't true

zair hurts, but it doesn't really hurt that big
all marth has to do to shield dash to fair or fsmash or nair or etc... all zair is is a nuisance, nothing more nothing less

 

[Eten]

There is no punishable lag on Zair.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Her projectile game is definitely still useful. Super missiles were the only thing that got nerfed, and I have to agree those were lame as hell in melee. People are talking about he projectile game like its useless...its not, its still a very viable tactic. Its just a bit more balanced this time around.

 

[Dew Rag]

There is no punishable lag on Zair.

it doesn't matter if there is no lag, as long as u dodge the zair or shield it, u can attack her easily

Her projectile game is definitely still useful. Super missiles were the only thing that got nerfed, and I have to agree those were lame as hell in melee. People are talking about he projectile game like its useless...its not, its still a very viable tactic. Its just a bit more balanced this time around.

it useful, yes, i never said it wasn't, but it doesn't give you control over the match-up

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

it doesn't matter if there is no lag, as long as u dodge the zair or shield it, u can attack her easily



it useful, yes, i never said it wasn't, but it doesn't give you control over the match-up[/QUOTE

It does. Watch Silven's videos-missiles rack up damage and set up for combos, and the charge shot is a good KO move.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol.

Did some of you even read my thread in the Marth forums?

Dash to shield is pretty much Marth's generic answer to the Zair and it's reliable.

Also Marth can still full jump and instant duouble jump to approach.

Some of you make it seem like Marth will get 3 stocked by Samus everytime and do her no damage, which is ridiculous.

IMO it's even and I'm sticking with that until more and more peopl play the match-up then we will see what's up.

But one thing I just can't believe until I it has solid backing by really good players is the suggestion that Samus owns Marth in the match-up.

Also wtf?

Eten did you just say that Marth isn't a powerhouse nor does he have hard hitting KO moves?

Wow.

You

Know

nothing.

Marth has plenty of power and pretty much the most KO options out of anyone in the game.

You sir proved your ignorance. And you contradicted yourself. First you said the match-up is hard for marth for other reasons besides the Zair.

Then why I tore that rgument apart and said that Zair was the only thing that made it ahrd for Marth, you said exactly.

Soooooo, you admit that Zair is all Samus has going for her in this match then?

So then...how could you possibly thing Samus has advantage if only one moves helps her out?

Also..Marth's approach is limited?

Since when?

The only thing he can't really do is projectile to approach, and he can't crawl.

But his d-tilt let's him move forward so that is a substitute for crawling so other then that, he isn't lacking in his approach at all.

Just because Kal tried to SH all day vs Samus and ended up eating Zair for breakfast, lunch and dinner, doesn't mean other Marths will so the same.

I know I won't.

 

[Eten]

it doesn't matter if there is no lag, as long as u dodge the zair or shield it, u can attack her easily

And now we're into mystical fairy game physics where you can punish a move with no punishable lag.

Falling Zair has the 3 frame lag from landing frames only. Rising and peak Zair can go into other Aerials or another Zair. Given the beams range is about the distance between the Pokemon 1 platforms, you're looking at needing to cover that distance+ Samus's directional jump after Samus misses a rising Zair(just forget it if it isn't a rising Zair). Like I said, with no projectiles or lack of flexible approaches to mindgame it up, Marth is at a disadvantage just on approach alone.

Have either of you even played against a decent Samus?

Eten did you just say that Marth isn't a powerhouse nor does he have hard hitting KO moves?

Wow.

You

Know

nothing.

Marth has plenty of power and pretty much the most KO options out of anyone in the game.

You sir proved your ignorance. And you contradicted yourself. First you said the match-up is hard for marth for other reasons besides the Zair.

You know what Marth's Fsmash now KO's at? ~100%, where the average KO % is around 110%(IE, something like Samus's Fsmash). You know what the real powerhouses are? Zelda kick KOs at LESS THAN 100%, Luigi's up-B KOs at 60%, etc. Don't call me ignorant if you don't know yourself what you are talking about. Marth's KO power is not in the area now that it was in Melee vs. other characters, same exact thing with his sword range.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Pretty sure Zair can't go into anything.

Samus has to land first.

Someone confirm this.

Anyway I tore you up in my last post.

I'm done talking to you.

 

[Dew Rag]

**** dis ****

I'll MM Marth v Samus both of u, eten and fullbleed, where do u both fking live

also the average death percent is around 150

if it was 110 it'd be like melee and we wouldn't have 3 stock matches

 

[Emblem Lord]

Tipper F-smash kills around 80%-90% depending on the stage and where on the stage you are sent off.

Typical kill range is 110%?

What?

Typical kill range is like 130%-150ish.

Marth has a crazy amount of kill options.

Holy **** you are stupid.

I think from now on I will only talk to Hylian, Hugs, Frotaz, Dew Rag and a few others in the Samus boards.

They are actually intelligent and don't pull **** out of their *****.

 

[Dew Rag]

lol, i seriously don't know why i talk on the samus boards when more than half are ******** as hell and don't know what they're talking about