What tier does Samus deserve?

[X Megadragon]

Yeah. Also, because of her short running animation, she can do a "fake wavedash" by dashing quick then shielding. It opens up for more mindgames. :D

Also, the grapple beam got a huge buff, aside from the extended grapple nerf. Mid-high tier?

 

[HugS]

My opinion has changed to High tier.

Maybe not now, but in the near future. I'll play her like High tier at least.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I would say samus is either the top of low tier or the bottom few in mid tier, at least for singles.

I played with samus yesterday for a good 10 matches i would say and singles was just too difficult to handle. There are some very good things i could do (nair near the ground hits them up for a f-smash) and missile spamming was....less than applicable against the characters i was playing. (marth, marth, marth, more marth, and marth, and falco).
In teams, this is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ISSUE. Samus is AMAZING in teams. Her basic comboes/spacing are wonderous...not to mention her recovery. Samus can do 2 nairs to f-smash, then go help the team partner. I think for a doubles tier list, even though it won't exist, she is high part of mid/low part of high tier. Remember to think of her in all aspects, balancing her teams and singles she, i guess, will be in the...3/5 (being the lower than half) mid tier.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Sry for double post, but reading the entire thread instead of skimming made me see this

Ganon has an awkward run.. *_*

Anyway..... more food for thought..

The pit player that I mentioned before in my earlier post. I usually always used to beat in Melee...with multiple characters(not only Samus) so I think it's proven that I'm an all around better SMASH PLAYER (not melee) than he is. So the only reason I'm losing must be because of Samus.

ITS A NEW ****ING GAME YOU CAN'T EXPECT TO BE GOOD RIGHT FROM THE START. Samus can have the greatest potential of all characters (not being serious but making a point) and the "top tier" characters as of now are noob friendly. Marth, MK, Pit, are all VERY noob friendly characters. I know i made a thread saying i would quit samus, but that was before i played doubles ^_^. As of now, before anybody has enough skill to really grasp the concepts of every characters potential and **** its basically the most noob friendly characters will win, unless the person is like...5 times playing when you have played for 3 weeks, thats a different issue.
Although i still think she will be the lower part of mid tier that doesn't mean she isn't useable. I mean... jiggly was on the lower end of mid tier, and mango ended up freaking winning against the overpowered characters, (marth/fox)

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

stupid me being impatient and clicking send again...really sry for triple post

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

I don't think i notice this but has anyone mention anything about grapple spam *or Zair as Hylian calls it* i got to play brawl for a good bit yesterday and abuse the mess out of it. I mean its no broken by any means but my friend was having a hard time approaching me due to that move.

 

[HugS]

I don't think i notice this but has anyone mention anything about grapple spam *or Zair as Hylian calls it* i got to play brawl for a good bit yesterday and abuse the mess out of it. I mean its no broken by any means but my friend was having a hard time approaching me due to that move.

I think it's the main reason for why samus may end up High tier. Maybe not soon, but when people figure out how to use her, I really believe she will be.

 

[Wildfire393]

Unless it was stale moves'd to hell, you're probably remembering wrong.



Other characters having a better recovery isn't a nerf on Samus; it's an improvement to other characters. The problem with her bombs isn't bomb jump, but a usurped usefulness as a mindgame and combo-starting option.



What about zair, fair, uair, usmash, homing missiles, and Screw Attack?

The Bair was in training mode, where stale moves don't apply. And it was definitely 170%. It might have been a hit at the "wrong" end of the stage, but it definitely did not kill.

Other characters having a better recovery is not a nerf on Samus. However, it means her recovery being good is less of an outstanding thing. If every character in the top few tiers has an equal or greater recovery and better kill potential, it's going to drop Samus on the tier list a little.

All of the attacks listed there might have small improvements to them (I haven't seen quite enough action to say for sure. But none of these moves have good knockback. Samus has never had a huge problem building up damage, but she did have a bit of a problem killing (it generally involved multiple Nair/Bairs and possibly multiple missiles or a charge shot). With all of her knockback moves nerfed, it doesn't matter if they gave slight buffs to her damage buildng moves.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen much Samus winning.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

The Bair was in training mode, where stale moves don't apply. And it was definitely 170%. It might have been a hit at the "wrong" end of the stage, but it definitely did not kill.

Other characters having a better recovery is not a nerf on Samus. However, it means her recovery being good is less of an outstanding thing. If every character in the top few tiers has an equal or greater recovery and better kill potential, it's going to drop Samus on the tier list a little.

All of the attacks listed there might have small improvements to them (I haven't seen quite enough action to say for sure. But none of these moves have good knockback. Samus has never had a huge problem building up damage, but she did have a bit of a problem killing (it generally involved multiple Nair/Bairs and possibly multiple missiles or a charge shot). With all of her knockback moves nerfed, it doesn't matter if they gave slight buffs to her damage buildng moves.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen much Samus winning.

I have killed with samus's bair at 100-120 quite a few times. I mean, you won't kill bowser until 150 unless you do it off the stage. Samus has decent killing potential, but way less than most other characters. All the smashes, even U-smash have killing potential. Bair, dair (gimping) and...dtilt all can kill

 

[Reno>]

I think it's the main reason for why samus may end up High tier. Maybe not soon, but when people figure out how to use her, I really believe she will be.

I completely agree. She is still able to play it smart in match, and her spacing is really good. which has made the transission from melee samus to brawl samus easy for me.

 

[Hylian]

After playing more, and realizing that samus completly destroys marth, I think Samus should be either top tier or very near it.


I am completly serious. She will probably counter over half the cast. She is impossible to approach if you don't have a projectile.

 

[Pi]

After playing more, and realizing that samus completly destroys marth, I think Samus should be either top tier or very near it.


I am completly serious. She will probably counter over half the cast. She is impossible to approach if you don't have a projectile.

Great ****in news man.

 

[Paradigm]

After playing more, and realizing that samus completly destroys marth, I think Samus should be either top tier or very near it.


I am completly serious. She will probably counter over half the cast. She is impossible to approach if you don't have a projectile.

Is this primarily/entirely due to zair spam? While I'm glad to hear I won't likely have to struggle with low-tier as my main, I worried I'm going to hear a lot of *****ing about cheap/boring strategies.

 

[Terminator guy]

High.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7EnqhP6JeIo
nuff said

 

[Hylian]

Is this primarily/entirely due to zair spam? While I'm glad to hear I won't likely have to struggle with low-tier as my main, I worried I'm going to hear a lot of *****ing about cheap/boring strategies.

Yes. Zair spam all match. And if they get close to you...just up B out of sheild, then zair spam more.

 

[BentoBox]

After playing more, and realizing that samus completly destroys marth, I think Samus should be either top tier or very near it.


I am completly serious. She will probably counter over half the cast. She is impossible to approach if you don't have a projectile.

Kal's marth loses to your samus everytime now? ''Destroys'' sounds like an overstatement to me =x

edit: ^ I see =o

 

[Hylian]

Kal's marth loses to your samus everytime now? ''Destroys'' sounds like an overstatement to me =x

edit: ^ I see =o

I will post the videos when they are up. I think his marth only beat my samus once out of all the times we play and that was the first match. Way different from the videos I have up now.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

lol wow i don't know why i never tried using zair...maybe she should be higher tier than i thought...

 

[BentoBox]

I will post the videos when they are up. I think his marth only beat my samus once out of all the times we play and that was the first match. Way different from the videos I have up now.

He actually beat you in matches #5, 3, 2 and 1.

 

[X Megadragon]

Wow, great discoveries. With an advantage over Marth, DHMing and the super-buffed grapple, Samus for Top Tier. :D

 

[Gum]

What if winning with samus used to get you lots of money? And what if now all the hard work you put into her just ends up losing you lots of money?

I'm not saying I won't main her, but I'm just pointing out that there's more than Fun at stake for some people.

As far as brawl goes, she has an upper hand in the following categories:
1. Comboability
2. Spacing
3. Landing Lag (She has none)
4. Recovery

However, in a game where knockback diminishes and percentages soar beyond what we are used to, the most needed ability is her greatest downfall:
KO ability.

Her KO moves are few, and their applications are very limited. The lack of stun in this game makes it extremely difficult to set up opponents into these already "Hard to land" moves. I don't understand how developers would see past this. I'm hoping that with new releases of this game, they will patch up the knockback on samus's moves.

Problems:
1. How are you going to make missiles slower AND weaker. Good thinking.
2. If you are going to make a move last as long as her Nair does, why give it so little knockback?
3. Fsmashes, dtilts, and dsmashes kill at decent percentage, but without wavedashing, you'd be hard pressed to land any of these attacks on skilled opponents who don't make mistakes.

The only solution I can think of is to become adept at racking up damage to 200+ with increased defenses. Or we must figure out ways to gimp our opponents in a game that has auto sweet spots, amazing recoveries, invulnerable air dodges, and invulnerable up B's. Good luck.

Why can't samus players ever get it easy? Just like in melee, we'll have to work harder than our opponents will. Shame.

IMO she'll be mid tier, possibly high, possibly low.

1. Her missiles are fine. They both have uses. Power missiles have less knockback, and come out slower, but they actually travel faster than in Melee and EAT tHE HELL OUT OF SHIELDS. Homing missiles also travel farther before blowing up, and have taken the place of power missiles in terms of canceling.
Solution: start your approach with a single power missile(so that your opponent cant rush you and get past your first aerial homign missile. They have to respond, which gives you time to start your approach) , then go into homing missile canceling into either more homing missiles or a grapple before landing as you are approaching. Really good for pressure.

2. Sex kick has much less knockback, true, but it comes out very fast (great for doing out of shield) and still has really good priority. This makes it still very good for stopping your opponents combos and jamming up their air game, not to mention it combos with all her other aerials pretty well. It also works with her grapple, which is an excellent manuever against priority whores(Pit, Wolf, Meta, Marth)

3. Her smashes and tilts are amazing. Hard to hit with? No. First of all, her dash attack moves her past the shielding opponent and behind them, and she can immediately follow up with a forward tilt behind her for a hit, or more pressure. Your opponent cant shield grab that anymore as long as you keep her momentum past opponent. Secondly, Samus is much more mystifying in Brawl. SHE IS NOT SLOW. Floaty yes. Slow? not at all. she is surprisingly hard to deal with at close range, especially in the air. She baits your opponent because they are confident that they can out do her at close range. Because she has NO landing lag, she can pressure and deal with fasties with surprising ease. Hook, line, and sinker is her best strategy in Brawl. Wavedashing not needed.

In terms of killing, she is fine. all her moves hit pretty hard. hard enough to get your opponent off the stage some distance, and then gimp them with your tether. Samus and ZS have a huge advantage here, because they have the longest and fastest tethers, and tethers edge hog. KO not needed. be as gay as possible. After all, your opponent is going to try to gimp your tether as much as they can, so why not flip the script. In fact, since damage does indeed soar above what we are used to, why worry about it? Screw the KO, fire at will and gimp as much as you can. This works extremely well since most characters have auto-snap recovery. Only exceptions are flyers.

My guess is between high and top tier. Possibly top 5. At any rate, Im going to make it a reality. you will see me again.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Ill admit she is good, but not nearly good enough for top tier....or top 5. She will be around the same area as the FIRST tier list, being the lowest of high or around the top of mid.

 

[Gum]

Ill admit she is good, but not nearly good enough for top tier....or top 5. She will be around the same area as the FIRST tier list, being the lowest of high or around the top of mid.

Like I said, IM going to make her top tier. you may not believe me, but just wait and see. She has all the ingredients of a top tier character. Of course people dont see it yet. Another thing is that people have a pre-disposition because of what they knew in Melee. This however is a whole new ballpark.

 

[BentoBox]

Funnily enough, I hear that in every single character sub-forum.

 

[Gum]

Funnily enough, I hear that in every single character sub-forum.

thats fine, but it doesnt change the fact that im going to make her great. I stick with my favorite character, and lucky for me my favorite character has lots of potential.

 

[Nocturnal~Dragon]

i would put her at mid, shes still good, but for now(at least for me) it is still a bit akward to play her without wavedashing and her mislles(from melee), but i think it just takes getting used too

 

[XSilvenX]

Double Post Laggy Smashboards

 

[XSilvenX]

The guy that said I suck at Smash Bros and don't play as Samus...you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

I still maintain my opinions on Samus. I notice alot of you guys are forgetting what tiers are. It doesn't matter how good you play with the character you'll still be doing two to three times more work for your kills than any other character the way I see it. I'm sure alot of you guys are extremely talented and are very smart players so of course you will triumph if you work hard at it enough but I just don't see how Samus will win matches versus equal opponents if she cannot kill. I'm being very biased I know so excuse me but let's just wait for some tournaments. I would love to see if Samus' get anywhere with her opponents surviving into the 175 percentile.

And just because Hylian says Samus supposedly "destroys" Marth (which we don't know yet...) that doesn't mean Samus is high tier. Who's to say Marth is even anywhere near high tier this time around...theres alot of work to be done when it comes to comparing characters and rendering a tier list. ALOT of work... so for all we know Marth may be mid tier. Who's to say that just because he plays similar to how he played in Melee that he will be High tier. After all it IS a different game and there are different focuses now. Maybe alot of the same things Marth excelled at are not as effective in Brawl...once again who knows I'm just saying theres alot of doubt there.

...and please with your retorts try to refrain from bashing. I know I'm public enemy number 1 with this and all...so yah.

And just so you guys know I STILL PLAY Samus but she is definitely not my main...I have wayyy more luck with Ike...but I wouldn't call it Luck.

 

[X Megadragon]

Well said, Gum. Samus has the potential for top tier, and people just aren't realizing her potential.

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

I'm pretty sure its way too soon to decide who goes where on a tier list. I mean the game is only out in Japan, it needs some time to spread to more gamers, then we can come up with combo and such and see how good they are. If I'm not mistaken there are still arguments about the melee tier list. So before we start making a tier list and seeing who's where we need time to get a hang of the game.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Like I said, IM going to make her top tier. you may not believe me, but just wait and see. She has all the ingredients of a top tier character. Of course people dont see it yet. Another thing is that people have a pre-disposition because of what they knew in Melee. This however is a whole new ballpark.

Lol gl with that...

The guy that said I suck at Smash Bros and don't play as Samus...you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

I still maintain my opinions on Samus. I notice alot of you guys are forgetting what tiers are. It doesn't matter how good you play with the character you'll still be doing two to three times more work for your kills than any other character the way I see it. I'm sure alot of you guys are extremely talented and are very smart players so of course you will triumph if you work hard at it enough but I just don't see how Samus will win matches versus equal opponents if she cannot kill. I'm being very biased I know so excuse me but let's just wait for some tournaments. I would love to see if Samus' get anywhere with her opponents surviving into the 175 percentile.


...and please with your retorts try to refrain from bashing. I know I'm public enemy number 1 with this and all...so yah.

And just so you guys know I STILL PLAY Samus but she is definitely not my main...I have wayyy more luck with Ike...but I wouldn't call it Luck.

1. I didn't say you suck at smash bros, but im saying its a new game so you can't automatically be as good as the other smash games you have played...it just own't happen.

2. If you think samus sucks, why the hell would you switch to ike of all people...just wondering...

3. I agree with you on the doing 3 times as much to get the same kill, but samus had to do that in melee and she was quite a decent tier

 

[XSilvenX]

Lol gl with that...


1. I didn't say you suck at smash bros, but im saying its a new game so you can't automatically be as good as the other smash games you have played...it just own't happen.

2. If you think samus sucks, why the hell would you switch to ike of all people...just wondering...

3. I agree with you on the doing 3 times as much to get the same kill, but samus had to do that in melee and she was quite a decent tier

Not at all the way I see it. There were so many auto combos for Samus that led to killing moves like bair that it made killing a breeze at times. Also the fact that charge shot was beast in melee was another thing. There were many combos that led to charge shots and the random charge shot out of the blue that would kill...not saying you can't do that in Brawl but since charge shot is relatively weak it just makes things that much more harder.

And it's funny how you are saying Ike is worse than Samus LOLOLOL. If you saw the way pros play with Ike you would'nt be asking why I switched. I should do some vid recording tonight but I'm a lazy guy... . I should have some soon though lol

 

[XSilvenX]

Lol gl with that...


1. I didn't say you suck at smash bros, but im saying its a new game so you can't automatically be as good as the other smash games you have played...it just own't happen.

2. If you think samus sucks, why the hell would you switch to ike of all people...just wondering...

3. I agree with you on the doing 3 times as much to get the same kill, but samus had to do that in melee and she was quite a decent tier

Not at all the way I see it. There were so many auto combos for Samus that led to killing moves like bair that it made killing a breeze at times. Also the fact that charge shot was beast in melee was another thing. There were many combos that led to charge shots and the random charge shot out of the blue that would kill...not saying you can't do that in Brawl but since charge shot is relatively weak it just makes things that much more harder.

And it's funny how you are saying Ike is worse than Samus LOLOLOL. If you saw the way pros play with Ike you would'nt be asking why I switched. I should do some vid recording tonight but I'm a lazy guy... . I should have some soon though lol

 

[VersatileBJN]

Wow, Ike is ****ing trash. I mean I understand wanting to switch to a new character, but Ike?

Might as well stay samus.

Ike will only be good for about 2 weeks. Once people learn the game he won't be able to hurt a fly. Unless azen uses him.

and what makes you come to that conclusion? none of your friends play him well?

 

[greenblob]

Currently, combos do like 20% and most single-hitters do 10%. Assuming that people currently do combos only half of the time, the average damage is around 15% at a time. Ike does like 25% per hit.

But once (if?...oh God no) people develop elaborate 0%-to-death combos (which Ike will probably never have), Ike's 25% doesn't look so impressive.

 

[VersatileBJN]

I don't think this system will allow for many, if any, 0 death combos.

I'd state my reasons I don't feel Ike will be ****, but this is about Samus, and since I'm also using her I'm happy to see people are finding effective methods to make her solid again, maybe even more so than Melee.

 

[BentoBox]

Indeed, with such low hit stun, there will most likely never be such a thing as 0-death combos in brawl.

 

[frotaz37]

Samus will be way higher than Ike.............Ike is crap, give this game a few months and nobody will ever get hit by him.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I love how the guy above me didn't use any logic.

 

[MrNaruhodou]

People should stop bashing Ike and just focus on Samus before this thread turns into a flaming thread.