What it takes to make sonic a well rounded character

[Tenki]

Well, from your categories, I actually normally use ASC/feint + Grab/Grounded gameplay. The vids that people took were really weird in that I either played differently from normal (eg, vs Rowan's Peach) or I just played stupidly (me vs C.Mob's Fox and Link on Battlefield)

But yeah, switching up your styles as well as approaches, and even mixing them, is what we all should be doing anyway.

I think I mentioned once how I was playing against a ROB player and I randomly had the impulse to imitate __X__'s aggro rush, and it caught him really offguard and got me a free stock lead- then I switched back.


It's more of balancing your own playstyle than advancing Sonic's metagame.

I'm actually starting to put less focus on what Sonic can do as a character and more on what we can do to become better players `.`;

 

[IceDX]

Well, from your categories, I actually normally use ASC/feint + Grab/Grounded gameplay. The vids that people took were really weird in that I either played differently from normal (eg, vs Rowan's Peach) or I just played stupidly (me vs C.Mob's Fox and Link on Battlefield)

But yeah, switching up your styles as well as approaches, and even mixing them, is what we all should be doing anyway.

I think I mentioned once how I was playing against a ROB player and I randomly had the impulse to imitate __X__'s aggro rush, and it caught him really offguard and got me a free stock lead- then I switched back.


It's more of balancing your own playstyle than advancing Sonic's metagame.

I'm actually starting to put less focus on what Sonic can do as a character and more on what we can do to become better players `.`;

Yeah i know what ur saying about balancing urself out but i belive that most sonics have a prob doing just that and they get predictable thats why im encouraging someone to make a thread describing each one when is the best time to use them, on what stages, agaist what characters etc... i think this would really help All the sonics out there going to tourneys and stuff get there game plan out and haveing a better gameplay overall...

 

[da K.I.D.]

defensive is 3000s style
and im happy that somebody finally brings me up when talking about examples of good sonics
also, im working on my aggresion, airial followups and feints, im actually working on my own really rough version of phanna's dash dance

 

[___X___]

Tenki used MAH MOVES?!?!?!

ZOMG!

i feel luved <3


and im not surprised he did. im the best sonic in TEH WORLDZ!

 

[ROOOOY!]

I'm better than you.
Because I camp more.
All you need to do is be a defensive POS and counterattack (grabbing is a MASSIVE part of my game too, actually) and you win.
Once you play good people, you realise that just rushing into them and hoping something happens doesn't work because you get smacked straight out of it.
I'll put some vids up MAYBE when I'm being less lazy.


I'd actually like to ask something. Which of Sonic's moves actually have bad priority? I've never quite figured it out. His jab is bad, but aside that, what else? His tilts all have pretty good priority, don't they (aside dtilt?)
Upsmash is hax and has invincibility stuff when you're at the apex.
I honestly don't know.
Like, his jab and SDR. Anything else?

 

[___X___]

you asking meh?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Anyone lol.
The priority issue is thrown around a lot by people who don't main Sonic and no thought is put into it whatsoever seemingly, it's just one of those automatically assumed things now.
I'm just not sure which moves have bad priority other than the fore mentioned jab and SDR.

Spoiler

And I'm not really better than you X lol. I just think the defensive playstyle suits Sonic better

 

[___X___]

1, 2, 3, 4.

Hey Hey Oh...
Hey Hey Oh...

It's you and me moving
At the speed of light into eternity yer,
Tonight is the night to join me in the middle of ecstasy.
Feel the melody in the rhythm of the music around you, around you
I'm gonna take you there, I'm gonna take you there
So don't be scared
I'm right here baby
We can go anywhere, go anywhere
But first it's your chance,
Take my hand come with me


It's like I've waited my whole life for this one night
It's gonna be me you and the dance floor
'cause we've only got one night
Double your pleasure
Double your fun and dance
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever girl forever
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever on the dance floor

Feels like we're on another level
Feels like our loves intertwined,
We can be two rebels breaking the rules
me and you, you and I
All you got to do is watch me
Look what I can do with my feet
Baby feel the beat inside,
I'm driving you can take the front seat
Just need you to trust me
Oh ah oh
It's like!

It's like I've waited my whole life for this one night
It's gonna be me you and the dance floor
'cause we've only got one night
Double your pleasure
Double your fun and dance
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever girl forever
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever on the dance floor


It's a long way down,
We're so high off the ground,
Sending for an angel to bring me your heart
Girl, where did you come from?
Got me so undone,
Gazing in your eyes got me singing what a beautiful lady
No "if"s, "and"s or "maybe"s
I'm releasing my heart and it's feeling amazing
There's no one else that matters
you love me and I won't let you fall girl
Let you fall girl oh
Ah ah ye yer
I won't let you fall, let you fall
Let you fall oh oh
Yer yer
Yer yer
It's Like!

It's like I've waited my whole life for this one night
It's gonna be me you and the dance floor
'cause we've only got one night
Double your pleasure
Double your fun and dance
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever girl forever
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever (ever, ever)
Forever on the dance floor



Oh ah ah ah ah ah
Yer
Forever (ever, ever, ever)
Forever ever ah.

 

[infomon]

The thing about priority, is that the word is tossed around by n00bs who don't actually understand how Brawl works at all. Priority is mostly just about perception, with a little bit of the game engine thrown in.

Disjointed hitboxes and hurtboxes are the most important thing that matters to give the impression of priority. Sonic fights with his head, legs, and gimpy arms, so he's generally quite vulnerable; his hurtbox is usually exposed. Contrast this with G&W's turtle, which can own Sonic all day, because the turtle extends so much farther than G&W.

Aerial attacks cannot be interrupted and cannot clash against other attacks, with few exceptions. Ground-attack hitboxes, alternatively, can clash against many things, and the attack will be interrupted if its hitbox overlaps an enemy hitbox that would do within 10% damage of the attack or more.

Specials, afaict, are generally designated as grounded or aerial, and follow the corresponding mechanic, appropriately. Some exceptions are grab-type attacks, glide attacks, and projectile-ish things like Olimar's pikmin.

Aaanywayy.... so Sonic's ground attacks appear to have low priority simply because his attacks are in general weak, which means they will be interrupted easily. And also his hitboxes (ground attacks and aerials) are not very disjoint, so even while attacking his hurtbox can usually be hit by large, disjointed hitboxes from opponents, like anybody with a sword

His grounded spindashes cut through nothing since they deal less than 10% damage, so any enemy hitbox will interrupt his attack, and the stronger ones won't themselves be interrupted.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Yeah it's all to do with range really.
And in the air, isn't it the aerial that hits the opponent first that wins the 'priority' battle? That's why u-airs such a beast because the hitbox extends so far from his legs lol.

 

[Tenki]

I'd actually like to ask something. Which of Sonic's moves actually have bad priority? I've never quite figured it out. His jab is bad, but aside that, what else? His tilts all have pretty good priority, don't they (aside dtilt?)
Upsmash is hax and has invincibility stuff when you're at the apex.
I honestly don't know.
Like, his jab and SDR. Anything else?

I'd just like to cut in and say that, while playing against a formerly spammier MK (who's had a few weeks' rust), he didn't spam up-B much this time, but Tornado.

And he was doing a grounded tornado and I cancelled it.

with jab.



lol the funny part was that he was busy button mashing and didn't realize he had input a side-B in the opposite direction, so I chased it and got a free F-smash

 

[da K.I.D.]

you didnt know that?

 

[Greenstreet]

yer i've been fiddlin round as a mk to test out my mate, and he has opportunity to be punished. its just eally hard. sonics need to be opportunity takers, flawless ones unfortunately.

 

[R4ZE]

ok tenki. you are offically better than me if you can cancel mk's tornado with jab.


idk if u have god hax on .. but that would be impressive for anyone to see IMO. I ebleive you, but its just impressive. I wanna try that now lol.


but like you said, grounded tornado's are terrible right?

 

[Tenki]

Tenki = weather. I can like, tell tornados to stop and they'd have to do it.

<_<

but it was more of a fluke than anything lol.

Wifi match, I was trying to use standing jabs as a bait for a dash attack/grab but he started tornado, and due to input lag, I was still jabbing when the tornado got to me. Then he ended up doing side-B so I foxtrot F-smashed to chase+punish xD

And yeah, grounded tornados are crappy. I've cancelled them situationally with all of Sonic's ground moves except for d-tilt and u-tilt.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Pfft. Tenki=*****.
But yeah you can jab the tornado when its grounded.

I finally managed to get the timing down with the Fsmash. I can get MK out the tornado with it around 75% of the time.

 

[R4ZE]

ASC, FSMASH, springs, and HA are the most reliable ways for me to break tornados.


Doesnt it seem weird that tornado out priorities so many moves, yet it does so little damage, and it's stale-moves doesent seem to really effect it's priority?

 

[infomon]

It just has a large hitbox, and MK is deep inside it so it's hard to hit him out of it. Unless it's on the ground, in which case any hit against its hitbox will stop the tornado. (with the exception of some lasers etc.) Also the tornado has lots of weak hits, which means when an attack clashes against the tornado, the tornado still has a bunch of chances to hit back after.

 

[___X___]

i **** mk's =]]]]

and everyone else =]]]]

thats all you guys need to know <3

 

[IceDX]

i **** mk's =]]]]

and everyone else =]]]]

thats all you guys need to know <3

That does´t help us in anyway _X_,
will u share ur Rapeing abilities with the rest of us

 

[Boxob]

Hey.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

I'm not American but i'll contribute anyway. Sakurai obviously designed Sonic as he is represented in his games, moves fast, hit many really fast times ect. By giving his moves low priority, he wanted Sonic mainers to use his attacks with a purpose. To find the right situation to use them so priority wont matter. Sonic was built for players with quick reactions and a adapting gameplay. If you fail at doing something, adapt and create a certain response from your opponent (mindgames) to take advantage. All of Sonic's moves have more then one way they can be used.
Sonic's tilts come out fast but not hard. With dtilts low knock back it's easy to link with the other tilts and grab. Say someone rolls behind you, with quick reactions you can dtilt>ftilt them after the invinciblity frames finish.
Example, the spring. We all know what it can do in the air but what about one the ground? Dash attack > spring > bair at high percentages.
Sonic was not built to be a one hit character. He was built to be as good in the hands of some who knows what all his moves can do, chain into, take fully advantage of mistakes ect, ect...

I would say more but...

This is the best description of Sonic in Brawl, that I've ever seen...

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I think focus was lost somewhere...

 

[Tenki]

THC!!!

D: I understand your bumpage, but you don't understand our development!

lol

The threads were good for their time.

 

[Chis]

Oh this thread. Ah I got quoted.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Negropost!

 

[The Halloween Captain]

It's Necro! Spell it right if your going to comment on my posting.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Negro is waayy cooler than necro.

 

[Chis]

I'm not American but i'll contribute anyway. Sakurai obviously designed Sonic as he is represented in his games, moves fast, hit many really fast times ect. By giving his moves low priority, he wanted Sonic mainers to use his attacks with a purpose. To find the right situation to use them so priority wont matter. Sonic was built for players with quick reactions and a adapting gameplay. If you fail at doing something, adapt and create a certain response from your opponent (mindgames) to take advantage. All of Sonic's moves have more then one way they can be used.
Sonic's tilts come out fast but not hard. With dtilts low knock back it's easy to link with the other tilts and grab. Say someone rolls behind you, with quick reactions you can dtilt>ftilt them after the invinciblity frames finish.
Example, the spring. We all know what it can do in the air but what about one the ground? Dash attack > spring > bair at high percentages.
Sonic was not built to be a one hit character. He was built to be as good in the hands of some who knows what all his moves can do, chain into, take fully advantage of mistakes ect, ect...

I would say more but...

Okay then.

His dtilt can edge guard, lead to another down tilt, up tilt, forward tilt, grabs and jabs.

Sonic's all about thinking outside the box. You have to think about the properties of each move,ect.

Sonic isn't just about using AT (advance techniques), it's about applying them in the situation. Also playing on his strengths (taking advantage of this slide sliding). Say you hit Sonic's dash attack with the initial hit (6% damage) and you too far to follow it up, you do a 3x stutter steep forward smash. Sonic's obviously a great edge guarder, with many ways kill many different opponents making their way to the stage. Take the homing attack for example. If you HA some before the have use their double jump, they will lose it. Plus, if you space right you can edge guard those with multiple jumps. Kirby, Dedede ect. I don't see enough of that.
Also his BV and B> great attacks... ASC can be used as an approach but also as edge guarding if use carefully and correctly. ASC first hit should raise them into the air if you don't hold forward >HA on characters at >110% works. But I have leave it there I afraid. I'm using the Wii browser to type this so my hands quite tried. I'll finish later.

Edit: Tenki it's just the most effective way I see Sonic being played.

So this is what I said.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

To me, Sonic is one of them mindgame dependant, hit and run, catch the oppenent off guard kind of guy, all that fancy SDC(spin dash cancel) shiz is for mindgames, I'm no sonic main, but I might pick him up for fun.

 

[Chis]

To me, Sonic is one of them mindgame dependant, hit and run, catch the oppenent off guard kind of guy, all that fancy SDC(spin dash cancel) shiz is for mindgames, I'm no sonic main, but I might pick him up for fun.

Do it.

 

[Kinzer]

And give us your soul while you're at it.

 

[aeghrur]

And we might give you steak... might.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

Necromancy isn't tolerated -_-'.

 

[Greenstreet]

Why is this bumped....? I hated this thread with the burning of 1000 suns.