What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

[RileyXY1]

"Agumon is a Anime character!"

I really hate it when people say that. They should do more research about the Digimon franchise. It's more than just an anime.

 

[SmashBro99]

https://imgur.com/a/Nc33X4L You have a competition on why Waluigi should/shouldn't be in smash

Their moveset argument is very weak in particular imo.

First off whether a moveset is good or not is subjective right there.

As for their 2 categories that characters can fall under, again one could argue Waluigi meets both of those, it seems this poster is very limited in their knowledge about the character and possible potential?

As a Waluigi fan if he had a sports moveset, without dancing, or mario items like bomb ombs and such, how would that not be true to his character? (I'd prefer the former of course)

More on movesets, he'd have punches, kicks, headbutts just like the rest of the roster, even those that don't actually do that in their games...

Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't played every game ever made for every series in smash)

Fox when not in his Arwing just uses guns and explosives, and doesn't actually go into hand to hand combat, while someone like Mario does infact throw punches and kicks in his games. (I know he uses the staff in Adventures, I dont recall if he does anything else outside of that, I watched my brother play through that one, wasn't interested and either way, one could argue for or against that him being able to wield a weapon is the same as attacking with his limbs, as in, COULD he.)

The only movesets that are 100% canon and accurate from their base games are like...Ryu and arguably Wii Fit Trainer? Also Little Mac since all he does is punch and that's all he does in his games., and maybe Game & Watch?

I'm sure there are more, and I'm sure there are some that could be argued back and forth but I'm not interested in that, I think I've made my point?

 

[FirestormNeos]

What one video?

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to it directly, but you find it by looking up "It's Dragonite" on youtube. Should hopefully be the first thing that comes up.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Oh MAN! I got so many "bad arguments" for my support for Shantae it's almost insulting to even give them relevance here!
But here we go.
"Shovel Knight's an assist trophy, and because of that, no other Indie game is going to get represented in this game because Shovel Knight's the most iconic Indie character and he's the most popular Indie character!"
Said by a sizable chunk of people over on RTC, when it concerns Shantae and other Indies, it just hits me with her more than anyone else. Like, it's seriously pathetic just how much they keep this argument alive when they refuse to even take a look at our circumstantial evidence and try to look at it from our perspective.

 

[FunAtParties]

Oh MAN! I got so many "bad arguments" for my support for Shantae it's almost insulting to even give them relevance here!
But here we go.
"Shovel Knight's an assist trophy, and because of that, no other Indie game is going to get represented in this game because Shovel Knight's the most iconic Indie character and he's the most popular Indie character!"
Said by a sizable chunk of people over on RTC, when it concerns Shantae and other Indies, it just hits me with her more than anyone else. Like, it's seriously pathetic just how much they keep this argument alive when they refuse to even take a look at our circumstantial evidence and try to look at it from our perspective.

I mean, I can see it. They were in a similar situation after all.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

I mean, I can see it. They were in a similar situation after all.

Who are "they"? I presume you mean other Indie characters? Or the members who are skeptical for a possible Indie character being playable?
Because it'd be neat to play most Indie characters except for Meat Boy. He'd just die by touching everyone, maybe throws a single punch before dying.

 

[FunAtParties]

Who are "they"? I presume you mean other Indie characters? Or the members who are skeptical for a possible Indie character being playable?
Because it'd be neat to play most Indie characters except for Meat Boy. He'd just die by touching everyone, maybe throws a single punch before dying.

Shovel Knight and Shantae

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Shovel Knight and Shantae

Oof, okay. It is pretty funny, because YCG were former WF employees, so it'd make sense that they have sort of this neck to neck situation here.
I'm mainly supporting Shantae because her games were fun when I first got my 3DS back in 2013 or 2014, where I purchased the first Shantae game on there. Then Pirate's Curse came in, had a lot of fun with that. However, there is a constant problem with Shantae, I feel, and that it's not very replayable in a way. It's sort of constant in its static form. That and it was great seeing Nintendo Power treating Shantae like a delectable treat, possibly would've done the same with Shovel Knight, too!
Whereas with Shovel Knight, it was fun and had great replayability. However, I feel that it may just be too early for Shovel Knight to come into Smash, not to say that he doesn't deserve to be in the game because he is pretty great. It's more a personal preference that Shovel Knight has two games in his series under his belt than anything else before he tackles Smash as a fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

"Incineroar has nothing unique about it because we already have Bowser and Charizard."

EDIT: Look who had the last laugh in the end.

 

[FunAtParties]

"Icnineroar has nothing unique about it because we already have Bowser and Charizard."

I'll admit, I'm not the biggest Incineroar fan, but that's pretty dumb.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Their moveset argument is very weak in particular imo.

First off whether a moveset is good or not is subjective right there.

As for their 2 categories that characters can fall under, again one could argue Waluigi meets both of those, it seems this poster is very limited in their knowledge about the character and possible potential?

As a Waluigi fan if he had a sports moveset, without dancing, or mario items like bomb ombs and such, how would that not be true to his character? (I'd prefer the former of course)

More on movesets, he'd have punches, kicks, headbutts just like the rest of the roster, even those that don't actually do that in their games...

Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't played every game ever made for every series in smash)

Fox when not in his Arwing just uses guns and explosives, and doesn't actually go into hand to hand combat, while someone like Mario does infact throw punches and kicks in his games. (I know he uses the staff in Adventures, I dont recall if he does anything else outside of that, I watched my brother play through that one, wasn't interested and either way, one could argue for or against that him being able to wield a weapon is the same as attacking with his limbs, as in, COULD he.)

The only movesets that are 100% canon and accurate from their base games are like...Ryu and arguably Wii Fit Trainer? Also Little Mac since all he does is punch and that's all he does in his games., and maybe Game & Watch?

I'm sure there are more, and I'm sure there are some that could be argued back and forth but I'm not interested in that, I think I've made my point?

https://imgur.com/a/m3v24WJ

 

[Rayleigh]

In specifics, two come to mind.

> "Custom Robo/Golden Sun isn't relevant anymore."
> "Waluigi/Lanky Kong is just a meme-character."

In generalities, the concept of 'X Franchises deserves more / has too much representation' has always rubbed me the wrong way. This is largely that I think about characters on the concept of 'would they be fun' rather than making a row of pedestals and asking myself 'Who is worthy?'.

Its why, even if I do not like, want, or support a character (such as Minecraft's Steve or Sora from Kingdom Hearts), I'm more interested in thinking about how a character could work and be fun for those who want them (and, hey, maybe end up fun for opposing people like me), versus why they are not worthy of being in the game.

 

[NintenRob]

Skull Kid: Boss
Bandana Dee: Goomba with a hat

 

[Rayleigh]

Skull Kid: Boss

That's one that gets me too...though oddly enough not as much.

Leaks are about as true as theories: Wrong until proven right...and even if it were true for Smash Ultimate, and folks' only get Skull Kid as a boss and/or assist trophy?

There's always the next game! Never give up!

 

[KMDP]

"Isaac is a generic swordsman" is probably one of the worst criticisms.

Yes, I am aware this point has more than likely been brought up in this thread, but it bares repeating again.

(There's also "Isaac seems boring" which I saw a few weeks ago).

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

"Isaac is a generic swordsman" is probably one of the worst criticisms.

Yes, I am aware this point has more than likely been brought up in this thread, but it bares repeating again.

(There's also "Isaac seems boring" which I saw a few weeks ago).

There's something worse.
Generic enemy excuse

 

[Bobthealligator]

Elma:
Just another anime swords woman

 

[WaddleKing]

Kind of going to draw comparison here, but I uttermost despise it when not only the same people who are against Meowth for a ton of reasons also use some that could also apply even more to , but even more infrutiating go out of their way to defend it beyond having become a tradition to keep it, the biggest offender being "Popular in Japan" yet list no source of that (I do believe it is but it's not noticeably any more popular than how much Meowth is not only in Japan but also worldwide).
Not to mention it steams from Puff having been a fairly big Pokemon alongside the likes of Psyduck, Snorlax, Pikachu, Meowth and such at the time being in a lot of marketing and so on, and due to its iconicness, still is fairly notable out of the bunch. But Meowth still kept appearing in a fair amount even during the gen 5 shift focus, was there alongside Pikachu.

And just like Meowth a lot of people know it, I knew people in their 40s and up who don't play video games who know it. But most of the cons I see people list to Meowth could apply to it too, "Only popular cause of the anime" , "Not much of a strong Pokemon fighter" , "Doesn't have a big role in the main series games" .

If Jigglypuff was never in Smash people would use the same reasons against Meowth against it, and would never use the reasons for defending its inclusion for it, I would guarantee it.
And note this is coming from someone who loves Jigglypuff in Smash, she is my favourite MU (In Sm4sh at least) and I used to play her a lot in casuals, I used one in FireRed alongside a Meowth unevolved when I was younger because of how much notable they are. But this just feels like pure blind bias from having gotten warmed up to her being in Smash but not the other.


Another reason that kinda applies to everyone, some people tend to just bring up "Meowth and Gardevoir were Pokeballs they can't be playable" and while I acknowledge Meowth is still a Pokeball in Ultimate, they are mostly listing their past appearances in them as a reason they can't when andhave all made the jump before. That should not be a valid reason against them at all. (Granted if they are confirmed for it for the current game, I'd say it's just requesting them for DLC or a future game, doesn't mean one doesn't know, people did it with Ridley and they got him eventually)

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Any new Pokemon, Mario and Fire Emblem Rep

Too much.
Silly, there is never too much reps in smash though it would overbalance the crossover bit. I was over the moon to see Chrom join the battle.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Skull Kid: Boss
Bandana Dee: Goomba with a hat

Yeah, I'm guilty as charged there, at least with the first statement. Though I was going by on the basis that Skull Kid could work either as a playable or as a boss, but that I personally think he could work better as a boss.

 

[SmashBro99]

https://imgur.com/a/m3v24WJ

I'll just put the post here and then tear it apart again.

Waluigi is very well known for dancing, in many of his appearances in the spinoff games (not the dancing centered game)

Mario Tennis (2000) - he dances after winning the cup.

Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour (2004) - he dances after getting the putt.

Mario Golf: Advance Tour (2004) - tell me that's not a dance move?

Mario Power Tennis (2004) - his special shot he poses (can be considered a dance move) dances as he performs his special shot, and dances when victorious.

Mario Kart DS (2005) - He's in a kart, but I'd say that's as much a dance as he can do sitting down, there's plenty of evidence that he has been constantly been dancing in these games, so we can drop this one if anyone argues that isnt a dance.

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (2007) - Tell me that spin move he has done more than once now is not a dance move.

Mario & Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games (2009) - Dancing then striking a pose.

Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (2011) ^Same exact victory dance.

Mario Party 9 (2012) - That's absolutely a victory dance.

Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games (2013) - Same dance as the other Olympic Games titles.

Mario Party Island Tour (2013) - Ok that spin move again, clearly his trademark dance move. Despite not being known for dancing, he does it in a whole bunch of these games in the video provided below for any interested.

Mario Golf World Tour (2014) - Epic dance moves here!

Mario Kart 8 (2014) - That fancy jump he hits before finishing the race reminds me of a breakdance move, no? Could be wrong I'm no expert.

Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (2016) - Dance imo, but could be argued, tbh the few times he doesn't clearly dance in these games his victory pose is more animated than the other characters, so this is another one you could dismiss.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (2017) - Again when he goes off the jump seems like dancing again.

Mario Tennis Aces (2018) - Special shot he's clearly dancing.

--> Video with proof if interested. <--

Not to mention there is a dancing minigame in half of the Mario Party games, while this is something everyone in the game does it can pay homage to his many many spinoff appearances. Same can be said for using bomb-ombs and other items.

---

Of course any character in the sports games can use items from those sports in their moveset, but it would work best with him to further show that he is indeed the king of spinoff games.

I'm not here trying to convince you to want him in the game, and I don't care if someone (who clearly isnt a fan of the character anyway) won't consider him, but you are just wrong and really need to check facts.

 

[VillagerX3]

Me: I think Chibi-Robo would be a neat addition.
Someone else: He’s too small.

*glares*

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Me: I think Chibi-Robo would be a neat addition.
Someone else: He’s too small.

*glares*

I think chibi robo would be assist first

 

[BirthNote]

"She'd just be a Clone/Echo of Diddy!"

Seriously, it's frustrating. Some people wrote her off at the sight of her for looking like Diddy, others don't know what she could do in the games that the other Kongs simply can't, and some were afraid she'd steal K. Rool's slot so they tried to throw her under the bus as much as possible.

I looked at the gameplay and sprites of the Kongs from SNES, and a lot of people don't give the DKCs credit for the nuance and individuality the playable Kongs had. They had different abilities and animations, which is remarkable considering they're owned by Nintendo. To this day Nintendo is notorious for slapping different heads on the same body with very little difference in animation, let alone abilities. DKC on the other hand went the extra mile to show that these characters weren't palette swaps (Luigi's origins) or the same character with different clothes/voice. Rare didn't cut corners in that department, and Retro took it further in their DKCs. Compare the playable character animations and abilities of NSMB U to DKCTF. The Plumbers and the Toads are the same model x4 with slight alterations to height and jumps, which Miyamoto admitted. The Kongs--even Diddy and Dixie--have very different animations and abilities from one another. They have few animations in common, and their abilities speak for themselves.

It's quite annoying to see people say "Oh, give her Chrom-level treatment and things will be fine" like that will solve the problem. The minimum amount of effort Dixie needs to feel like Dixie is a different UpB, her own Dash Attack, grabbing with her hair in some fashion, and hair attacks that aren't Diddy's reskinned jab. Unlike Diddy, Dixie relies on her hair heavily, while Diddy barely relies on his tail.

 

[AsterikDatBoi]

Me: I think Chibi-Robo would be a neat addition.
Someone else: He’s too small.

*glares*

Just like Olimar did before Brawl.

 

[SmashBro99]

"She'd just be a Clone/Echo of Diddy!"

Seriously, it's frustrating. Some people wrote her off at the sight of her for looking like Diddy, others don't know what she could do in the games that the other Kongs simply can't, and some were afraid she'd steal K. Rool's slot so they tried to throw her under the bus as much as possible.

I looked at the gameplay and sprites of the Kongs from SNES, and a lot of people don't give the DKCs credit for the nuance and individuality the playable Kongs had. They had different abilities and animations, which is remarkable considering they're owned by Nintendo. To this day Nintendo is notorious for slapping different heads on the same body with very little difference in animation, let alone abilities. DKC on the other hand went the extra mile to show that these characters weren't palette swaps (Luigi's origins) or the same character with different clothes/voice. Rare didn't cut corners in that department, and Retro took it further in their DKCs. Compare the playable character animations and abilities of NSMB U to DKCTF. The Plumbers and the Toads are the same model x4 with slight alterations to height and jumps, which Miyamoto admitted. The Kongs--even Diddy and Dixie--have very different animations and abilities from one another. They have few animations in common, and their abilities speak for themselves.

It's quite annoying to see people say "Oh, give her Chrom-level treatment and things will be fine" like that will solve the problem. The minimum amount of effort Dixie needs to feel like Dixie is a different UpB, her own Dash Attack, grabbing with her hair in some fashion, and hair attacks that aren't Diddy's reskinned jab. Unlike Diddy, Dixie relies on her hair heavily, while Diddy barely relies on his tail.

I'm not a supporter of Dixie (I got my wanted DK rep in K. Rool, and will never get my second pick, Lanky) so please correct me if I say something incorrect, but I'm wondering if she could work like this and that would be unique enough for you (any Dixie fans please jump in too!)

- Could Diddy's smashes work for her if instead of his up and forward smashes using his fists, she used her hair?
- I'm pretty sure Dixie Kong wouldn't really make sense with any of Diddy's specials aside from his Monkey Flip, so lets say those got changed to fit her better
- Final Smash would have to be changed of course.
- Grab with hair, focus on hair for attacks

I guess I'm asking if Dixie was more like Isabelle than Chrom, would that be ok? Her own character but borrowing lots from Diddy.

I'm only asking because while I don't support her, I know lots of people do and she, along with Bandana Dee are the two most requested characters that I don't understand well, and want to get a better grasp of.

 

[FalconFire93]

Geno:
“He’s irrelevant and only appeared in one game over 20 years ago”
“He doesn’t deserve a slot”
“He’s overrated”
“Who?”
“Be grateful you got a Mii Costume of him”

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

I'll just put the post here and then tear it apart again.

View attachment 165985

Waluigi is very well known for dancing, in many of his appearances in the spinoff games (not the dancing centered game)

Mario Tennis (2000) - he dances after winning the cup.

Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour (2004) - he dances after getting the putt.

Mario Golf: Advance Tour (2004) - tell me that's not a dance move?

Mario Power Tennis (2004) - his special shot he poses (can be considered a dance move) dances as he performs his special shot, and dances when victorious.

Mario Kart DS (2005) - He's in a kart, but I'd say that's as much a dance as he can do sitting down, there's plenty of evidence that he has been constantly been dancing in these games, so we can drop this one if anyone argues that isnt a dance.

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (2007) - Tell me that spin move he has done more than once now is not a dance move.

Mario & Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games (2009) - Dancing then striking a pose.

Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (2011) ^Same exact victory dance.

Mario Party 9 (2012) - That's absolutely a victory dance.

Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games (2013) - Same dance as the other Olympic Games titles.

Mario Party Island Tour (2013) - Ok that spin move again, clearly his trademark dance move. Despite not being known for dancing, he does it in a whole bunch of these games in the video provided below for any interested.

Mario Golf World Tour (2014) - Epic dance moves here!

Mario Kart 8 (2014) - That fancy jump he hits before finishing the race reminds me of a breakdance move, no? Could be wrong I'm no expert.

Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (2016) - Dance imo, but could be argued, tbh the few times he doesn't clearly dance in these games his victory pose is more animated than the other characters, so this is another one you could dismiss.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (2017) - Again when he goes off the jump seems like dancing again.

Mario Tennis Aces (2018) - Special shot he's clearly dancing.

--> Video with proof if interested. <--

Not to mention there is a dancing minigame in half of the Mario Party games, while this is something everyone in the game does it can pay homage to his many many spinoff appearances. Same can be said for using bomb-ombs and other items.

---

Of course any character in the sports games can use items from those sports in their moveset, but it would work best with him to further show that he is indeed the king of spinoff games.

I'm not here trying to convince you to want him in the game, and I don't care if someone (who clearly isnt a fan of the character anyway) won't consider him, but you are just wrong and really need to check facts.

https://imgur.com/a/QeP4lyf

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Irrelevance. I'm not going to specify a character, because this honestly fits like a billion characters. Including several that are already in.
Besides, I love retro games, am I supposed to not want retro games to be represented?

 

[PhantomShab]

Irrelevance. I'm not going to specify a character, because this honestly fits like a billion characters. Including several that are already in.
Besides, I love retro games, am I supposed to not want retro games to be represented?

I know how you feel. Anytime I see "muh relevancy" being used to detract from a character I roll my eyes. Just imagine how freaking boring roster speculation would be if you only limited your thoughts to what characters can be used to shill recent games. We'd be talking about Incineroar and Springman 90% of the time.

 

[BirthNote]

I'm not a supporter of Dixie (I got my wanted DK rep in K. Rool, and will never get my second pick, Lanky) so please correct me if I say something incorrect, but I'm wondering if she could work like this and that would be unique enough for you (any Dixie fans please jump in too!)

- Could Diddy's smashes work for her if instead of his up and forward smashes using his fists, she used her hair?
- I'm pretty sure Dixie Kong wouldn't really make sense with any of Diddy's specials aside from his Monkey Flip, so lets say those got changed to fit her better
- Final Smash would have to be changed of course.
- Grab with hair, focus on hair for attacks

I guess I'm asking if Dixie was more like Isabelle than Chrom, would that be ok? Her own character but borrowing lots from Diddy.

I'm only asking because while I don't support her, I know lots of people do and she, along with Bandana Dee are the two most requested characters that I don't understand well, and want to get a better grasp of.

YES! That would be A-OK in my eyes. Completely Unique is ideal, but Isabelle, Lucas or Wolf-Level is a great alternative! I'd be very happy if Dixie took any of those development routes as she would be just fine from then on. I think a lot of people would embrace that and I know I certainly would.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I know how you feel. Anytime I see "muh relevancy" being used to detract from a character I roll my eyes. Just imagine how freaking boring roster speculation would be if you only limited your thoughts to what characters can be used to shill recent games. We'd be talking about Incineroar and Springman 90% of the time.

Not to mention, if you hyperfocus on relevancy when it comes to newcomers, then you risk adding a bunch of boring picks who have yet to prove themselves as viable contenders just because they happen to be the current flavor of the month. coughcorrincough

 

[TheLastJinjo]

"Dr. Mario is literally just Mario in a doctor outfit!"

 

[SmashBro99]

https://imgur.com/a/QeP4lyf

Finally something we agree on, Nintendo hasn't used him at all, he clearly has a fanbase that want more than just knowing he'll be in the next mario party or sports game.

As far as him needing that to be a playable fighter, we'll have to disagree some more. But this is where it comes down to opinions and bias, while he is a spin off character, he doesn't need his own game to be developed, his personality is deeper than Mario, plenty of other characters in those games, and a bunch of other characters in smash, but of course he could be more developed if he had his own game, sure there is potential there, but there is already plenty to work with.

Dancing is something that he does, that is not a common thing in his series (Mario) outside of minigames in the Mario Party games that everyone dances in, or the spinoff DDR game, in my previous post I showed proof that he dances a ton when you said he isn't known for it, and it's something unique that the other Mario characters arent known for.

Peach does a little dance as a taunt in Smash, but in the actual Mario games she doesn't dance all that much, same goes for every other character.

It's exactly like Wario loving gold, or Luigi being a wimp (most of the time), or DK loving bananas, or Peach baking cakes.

The fact that he tries to cheat, gloats when he wins, gets salty when he loses and has an inferiority complex along with tons of other things set him aside from everyone else, just like the crazy dance moves he busts out.

I always love discussing my favorite Mario character, but there is a time to know when I'm gonna stick to what I think, and you will stick to what you think, and just agree to disagree, after having this discussion and reading your replies it's clear that you didn't a lot about the character, and that's fine, and I'm not trying to be a **** about it I just don't see this going anywhere, but like I said whenever I can talk about Waluigi I'm happy to. I just think I've proven my point.

YES! That would be A-OK in my eyes. Completely Unique is ideal, but Isabelle, Lucas or Wolf-Level is a great alternative! I'd be very happy if Dixie took any of those development routes as she would be just fine from then on. I think a lot of people would embrace that and I know I certainly would.

Good to know, thanks and best of luck for Dixie I feel like while she might not be in the base game (just because of K. Rool and I think she'd have been revealed with him) she will be DLC for sure, hope you get her sooner rather than later but even as someone who doesn't support her, I feel like she's a lock for this game!

 

[FooltheFlames]

This sounds an awful lot like the brain trust who insists that supporting Ashley makes you a pedophile, haha. The second you start insulting the fanbase, rather than make some sort of constructive argument, you lose.

All too true haha! XD

The argument used against her now that's currently the most annoying though is, "Assist Trophies will never be playable." Even though history has already proven that fan rule wrong before.

 

[Machete]

Muh relevancy is by far the worst argument. By far. I can understand why a company would push characters they're trying to market, but fans should care only about characters they like, regardless of how long ago their games were released. I seriously don't understand people who look at cool characters and dislike them exclusively because they're not relevant.

Thankfully that stupid as hell argument suffered a great blow with K.Rool, a nowadays-irrelevant character who nevertheless had enough of a resume to deserve a spot, so in a way, Sakurai seems to agree. But if it was Sakurai pushing the agenda, I'd understand, since Nintendo would want characters that market current games. But it's usually fans who get extremely defensive about a character being irrelevant, and as such, unworthy.

I can understand many arguments, really, even if I don't agree with them. "Waluigi is unimportant to his own series and as such he doesn't deserve to be in Smash!" Okay, I can see why one would think that. It's true that Waluigi's never had an important role in a Mario game. "Bandana Waddle Dee is just a hat goomba!" Well, regardless of how true or false this is, that's basically saying his design is unappealing. "Isaac would just be another generic anime swordsman!" Not true, but he might look like it. Those arguments are meh, but I can see why those things would make those characters unappealing (even if they are based on wrong assumptions).

But "this character's game was enjoyed many years ago rather than a couple of years ago" is extremely dumb, because it implied the only thing against this character's inclusion is the chronological point in time in which their game was released.

 

[BirthNote]

View attachment 166058

Finally something we agree on, Nintendo hasn't used him at all, he clearly has a fanbase that want more than just knowing he'll be in the next mario party or sports game.

As far as him needing that to be a playable fighter, we'll have to disagree some more. But this is where it comes down to opinions and bias, while he is a spin off character, he doesn't need his own game to be developed, his personality is deeper than Mario, plenty of other characters in those games, and a bunch of other characters in smash, but of course he could be more developed if he had his own game, sure there is potential there, but there is already plenty to work with.

Dancing is something that he does, that is not a common thing in his series (Mario) outside of minigames in the Mario Party games that everyone dances in, or the spinoff DDR game, in my previous post I showed proof that he dances a ton when you said he isn't known for it, and it's something unique that the other Mario characters arent known for.

Peach does a little dance as a taunt in Smash, but in the actual Mario games she doesn't dance all that much, same goes for every other character.

It's exactly like Wario loving gold, or Luigi being a wimp (most of the time), or DK loving bananas, or Peach baking cakes.

The fact that he tries to cheat, gloats when he wins, gets salty when he loses and has an inferiority complex along with tons of other things set him aside from everyone else, just like the crazy dance moves he busts out.

I always love discussing my favorite Mario character, but there is a time to know when I'm gonna stick to what I think, and you will stick to what you think, and just agree to disagree, after having this discussion and reading your replies it's clear that you didn't a lot about the character, and that's fine, and I'm not trying to be a **** about it I just don't see this going anywhere, but like I said whenever I can talk about Waluigi I'm happy to. I just think I've proven my point.



Good to know, thanks and best of luck for Dixie I feel like while she might not be in the base game (just because of K. Rool and I think she'd have been revealed with him) she will be DLC for sure, hope you get her sooner rather than later but even as someone who doesn't support her, I feel like she's a lock for this game!

Very much appreciated!

 

[Awesomeperson159]

Definitely Hat Goomba against Bandana Dee. Why does a relevant character that's appeared in most of the recent Kirby games that's unique and has tons of moveset potential need to be in? After all, he's "just a generic Waddle Dee with a bandana with absolutely no difference from any Waddle Dee".

The best part about this is that the people who popularized it (curse you GameXPlain) support Captain Toad because he's a relevant character that's appeared in most of the recent Mario games that's unique and has tons of moveset potential, despite looking identical to a generic Toad with a hat and some equipment.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Muh relevancy is by far the worst argument. By far. I can understand why a company would push characters they're trying to market, but fans should care only about characters they like, regardless of how long ago their games were released. I seriously don't understand people who look at cool characters and dislike them exclusively because they're not relevant.

Thankfully that stupid as hell argument suffered a great blow with K.Rool, a nowadays-irrelevant character who nevertheless had enough of a resume to deserve a spot, so in a way, Sakurai seems to agree. But if it was Sakurai pushing the agenda, I'd understand, since Nintendo would want characters that market current games. But it's usually fans who get extremely defensive about a character being irrelevant, and as such, unworthy.

I can understand many arguments, really, even if I don't agree with them. "Waluigi is unimportant to his own series and as such he doesn't deserve to be in Smash!" Okay, I can see why one would think that. It's true that Waluigi's never had an important role in a Mario game. "Bandana Waddle Dee is just a hat goomba!" Well, regardless of how true or false this is, that's basically saying his design is unappealing. "Isaac would just be another generic anime swordsman!" Not true, but he might look like it. Those arguments are meh, but I can see why those things would make those characters unappealing (even if they are based on wrong assumptions).

But "this character's game was enjoyed many years ago rather than a couple of years ago" is extremely dumb, because it implied the only thing against this character's inclusion is the chronological point in time in which their game was released.

The generic enemy excuse is by far the worst argument

 

[jamesster445]

The best part about this is that the people who popularized it (curse you GameXPlain) support Captain Toad because he's a relevant character that's appeared in most of the recent Mario games that's unique and has tons of moveset potential, despite looking identical to a generic Toad with a hat and some equipment.

To be fair there's a really easy answer to that.

Spoiler