What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

[Awesomeperson159]

To be fair there's a really easy answer to that.

Spoiler

If you're going off amount of box art appearances, Bandy doubles captain toad (though, due to not being P1, he's never front and center like Captain Toad).

Spoiler

Or are you saying people like Captain Toad because they think he's more relevant? While Toads may be more relevant than Waddle Dees (mainly because Mario as a series has outsold Kirby by around ten times), Return to Dreamland actually beats the original Captain Toad in sales (1.66 million vs. 1.4 million), although with the Switch and 3DS versions, Captain Toad technically did out-sell RTD (I can't find stats for the 3DS, but since the switch version has sold 340 thousand copies and the 3DS version had around 40% of the Switch version's in the first few months, so I'm guessing around 1.9 million total vs RTD's 1.66 million). Of course, if you add the 580 thousand sales of Rainbow Curse and the 1.47 million of Kirby Star allies (which actually is the fastest-selling Kirby game ever made), Bandy's playable appearances crush Captain Toad Treasure Tracker. The only way Captain Toad could be statistically more relevant than Bandana Dee is if you count him being playable in 3D World in a minigame; being a main series Mario game, it crushed Kirby's sales, which isn't uncommon.

tl;dr: Bandana Dee is relevant, people who make the dumb arguments against him support characters that people could make the same dumb arguments against (but the arguments are still really stupid), and it's impossible to hate our pure bandana boi.

 

[jamesster445]

If you're going off amount of box art appearances, Bandy doubles captain toad (though, due to not being P1, he's never front and center like Captain Toad).

Spoiler

Or are you saying people like Captain Toad because they think he's more relevant? While Toads may be more relevant than Waddle Dees (mainly because Mario as a series has outsold Kirby by around ten times), Return to Dreamland actually beats the original Captain Toad in sales (1.66 million vs. 1.4 million), although with the Switch and 3DS versions, Captain Toad technically did out-sell RTD (I can't find stats for the 3DS, but since the switch version has sold 340 thousand copies and the 3DS version had around 40% of the Switch version's in the first few months, so I'm guessing around 1.9 million total vs RTD's 1.66 million). Of course, if you add the 580 thousand sales of Rainbow Curse and the 1.47 million of Kirby Star allies (which actually is the fastest-selling Kirby game ever made), Bandy's playable appearances crush Captain Toad Treasure Tracker. The only way Captain Toad could be statistically more relevant than Bandana Dee is if you count him being playable in 3D World in a minigame; being a main series Mario game, it crushed Kirby's sales, which isn't uncommon.

tl;dr: Bandana Dee is relevant, people who make the dumb arguments against him support characters that people could make the same dumb arguments against (but the arguments are still really stupid), and it's impossible to hate our pure bandana boi.

Captain Toad is the star of his own game. BWD does not have that luxury. Being the main character of your own game will probably grant a lot more credence to most audiences as opposed to a secondary protagonist.

 

[hustler713]

"Isaac is an irrelevant, generic Swordsman, who shots Golden Suns out of his Hand."

 

[NukeA6]

I'm probably too late but my most hated was, "Ridley is too big" despite Melee showing the Xenomorph-dragon looking barely bigger than Samus.

 

[Mr.J]

Now while these are "critisisms" I do see them as a way to put someone's favourite or most wanted character down.
As for me, I'll only list Stanley, while I have more characters I'd like to mention I'm just gonna go with one.

"Why would you want to ask for another Mario/Donkey Kong character? He's just the same."
I see this one pop-up a lot and to be honest, I hate it. Just because a character looks the same as a different character doesn't mean their carbon copies, I mean sure there are a few instances where that is the case. EX: Fire Emblem. But not all the cases have to be that way.

"Mr.Game & Watch already has his bug-spray so he can't be a playable character because of that."
Now while I understand that can be the case for some characters that only share one and an only weapon, that doesn't mean a lot for Stanley's weapon. Because one move doesn't make a character. And if that were the actual case, why does Toon Link have the Master Sword then, if Link already has it?

And lastly,
"No, he's not worthy a playable character status. He'd be better off as an assist trophy."
I get it, people don't like to agree or share certain sentiments with each other. But that doesn't give them the right to drag each other's character down because of it. It's just unreasonable and quite rude to point out something about someone's most wanted character because it doesn't fit their narrative. So really, people need to stop that. Either comment something worth discussing about the character(s) or just don't comment at all.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

Captain Toad is the star of his own game. BWD does not have that luxury. Being the main character of your own game will probably grant a lot more credence to most audiences as opposed to a secondary protagonist.

So you're saying that people only want characters who are the stars of their own franchise? Does Sakurai exclusively add characters that Nintendo thinks will sell the most games? If only characters who are the stars of their own games can be added, how did Luigi get into 64 despite him only getting player 2 appearances up to that point outside of an educational game that served no purpose other than disappointing kids on Christmas? How did side characters like Bowser Jr., Zelda, Dedede, Peach, or Meta Knight get in? If only characters who are the mascots of their own relevant games, why is it that R.O.B. got in, despite being an extension to a console?

From what I've seen, Bandana Dee is more requested than Captain Toad. BWD's support thread has over 70 pages now, while Captain Toad's has only 30. I know comparing numbers like this is petty, but Bandana Dee is one of the most requested characters overall, to the point of a majority of comments on speculation videos are a) lists of characters they want that have Bandana Dee on them or b) just "I hope BWD gets in". Captain Toad is definitely popular, but among the community, BWD is more popular (he's especially popular in Japan, I've heard).

I'm not saying Captain Toad doesn't deserve to be in Smash at all; quite the contrary, I'd love to see him in and he has a lot of potential. I'm simply saying that 1. the arguments against BWD are invalid, 2. the same """"""""""arguments"""""""""" you can make against BWD you could make against Cpt. Toad (even though they're invalid arguments) and 3. therefore, not only is it not very reasonable to be opposed to adding BWD, but it's completely unreasonable to be opposed to BWD if you support Captain Toad, because the """"""""""arguments"""""""""" you can make against Bandana Dee can just as easily as you could use those """"""""""arguments"""""""""" against Captain Toad.

 

[Ultinarok]

"She can only get in as an Echo because she isn't distinct enough/not significant enough to deserve a unique spot/I only support her an Echo for these reasons."

I mean hey, if you don't support the character BEING true to her character, you may as well not support them at all. At least in my opinion.

 

[Bandiheart]

The Chosen Undead:
1. "There are better Namco reps" (Despite the fact that Dark Souls is extremely popular and in a sense iconic, along with how special and unique they could be. )
2. "They would just be a basic swordfighter" ( The Chosen Undead has access to a large arsenal of weaponry including hammers, axes, daggers, and scythes. He even has magic! Have the people who use this argument even looked at Souls? )

Giegue/Giygas
1. "Mother is a dead franchise" ( We know that really doesn't matter to Smash bros."
2. "He'd just be a Mewtwo echo fighter." (This. This isn't even slightly funny. Giegue has many more opportunities, although I could see him borrowing some moves from Mewtwo. )
3. "Why would you add something so large?" (Mind you that Giygas wasn't always a nightmare-screen, and was actually a physical entity at one point.)

Takumi
1. "Too Many Fire Emblem reps" ( That's not exactly true. It's about even with Pokemon and Mario. Pokemon technically has 8-reps, probably 9 by the time Ultimate releases, since all of the Pokemon are their own characters, and Mario has 8 as well. )
2. "He'd be just like the other Fire Emblem reps." ( Except he wouldn't though? He doesn't have access to a sword at all, only being able to use a bow. Yet again, do people who use this argument even look at the games? )

Tabuu
1. "He would be overpowered" ( I believe that Tabuu could easily have a moveset that is balanced, but still stays true to his source material, albeit maybe with a few new additions. )
2. "He's too big" ( Ridley made it. )

 

[FirestormNeos]

snippet-y hoppity SmashBoards is not a government-owned property

Whenever I think of Dark Souls getting a rep I groan in dismay, I always think of Solaire before I think of Chosen Undead. idk, seems like it'd be interesting to have a Smash Bros character use legitimate light magic.

I have no clue what Giygas in Smash would look like. Where the hell do people get "Mewtwo Echo" out of him?

Takumi's a good idea. Not on my wishlist, but if they get in, I'll be hyped.

Only reason I don't like Tabuu as a playable character idea is that I'd prefer he'd return as a boss. What I would enjoy seeing was a playable character who is Tabuu in disguise or something. Maybe give that character a couple of Tabuu's moves from SSE and Off-Waves as a final smash.

 

[hustler713]

Whenever I think of Dark Souls getting a rep I groan in dismay, I always think of Solaire before I think of Chosen Undead. idk, seems like it'd be interesting to have a Smash Bros character use legitimate light magic.

I have no clue what Giygas in Smash would look like. Where the hell do people get "Mewtwo Echo" out of him?

Takumi's a good idea. Not on my wishlist, but if they get in, I'll be hyped.

Only reason I don't like Tabuu as a playable character idea is that I'd prefer he'd return as a boss. What I would enjoy seeing was a playable character who is Tabuu in disguise or something. Maybe give that character a couple of Tabuu's moves from SSE and Off-Waves as a final smash.

Because it looks like Mewtwo and uses Psychic Attacks.

 

[KirbyMain64]

Olamar cuz who asked for him and octoling as inkling echo fighter!

 

[FirestormNeos]

View attachment 166479

Because it looks like Mewtwo and uses Psychic Attacks.

Wait, that's Giygas?

I thought we "couldn't comprehend the true form of him" or something.

Clearly I was mistaken.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Wait, that's Giygas?

I thought we "couldn't comprehend the true form of him" or something.

Clearly I was mistaken.

In EarthBound, yeah, because his body was destroyed by him going crazy with evil power... or something. They didn't do a good job on elaborating on some things in that game.

But in EarthBound Beginnings, he's basically a stick figure in a jar.

 

[Troykv]

Micaiah.

Hmm... It's hard to say; because currently she has the same arguments against her that many of the other decently popular choices from Fire Emblem (over-representation and stuff).

 

[Multi-bottle Thief]

Micaiah.

Hmm... It's hard to say; because currently she has the same arguments against her that many of the other decently popular choices from Fire Emblem (over-representation and stuff).

Ehh, people are gonna say that no matter what at this point. One more won't kill anyone, especially if Micaiah brought something new to the table.

 

[Deleted member]

Before got in:
"She's a goddess, she would be OP!"

Yeah right, like if canon powers have anything to do in Smash to begin with.

 

[Jurae818]

"They're not relevant enough."
"X would be better (Doesn't give reasons why and if they do, it's all subjective)."
My favorite: "Literally who? We're scraping the bottom of the barrel now."

 

[Golden Icarus]

For me, it’s that Isaac is “just another sword user.” That is the dumbest thing to me. Literally the prime reason I want Isaac in, above other characters is because of his moveset potential. Utility Psynergy (which extends to summoning giant hands, and morphing into a collection of orbs), earth Psynergy (which means earthquakes, rock manipulation, plant manipulation, healing magic, curses, ragnorak), and monster summons. Not to mention his ability to use all four elements. Hell, the reason people usually suggest that he just be an earth user is because he already has more than enough to make him stand out. It’s just absurd that the fact that he also has a sword should hinder him. In addition to that, there are countless different ways to use swords (just look at Link and Roy), just like there are countless ways to punch and kick people (Sheik and Captain Falcon).

Also, basically every argument I see against Toad is ****. I can’t even begin to count the things he has going for him as a unique, individual character. But you can’t stop the people from screaming that he’s “too generic,” or in Captain Toad’s case, that he “can’t jump.”

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wait, that's Giygas?

I thought we "couldn't comprehend the true form of him" or something.

Clearly I was mistaken.

That was in EarthBound .

That particular look of Giygas is from MOTHER 1, the earlier NES game. And since it was released before Pokemon, I think its quite clear that Giygas' overall design was what inspired Mewtwo's design from Red, Blue and Yellow.

 

[NukeA6]

Before got in:
"She's a goddess, she would be OP!"

Yeah right, like if canon powers have anything to do in Smash to begin with.

Funny enough, she wouldn't even be the strongest character in canon if she was added in the very first Smash Bros.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

The only true answer is "MUH RELEVANCE! NO ONE REMEMBERS A CHARACTER UNLESS THEY WERE CREATED LAST WEEK!!"

 

[Seanp12]

So you're saying that people only want characters who are the stars of their own franchise? Does Sakurai exclusively add characters that Nintendo thinks will sell the most games? If only characters who are the stars of their own games can be added, how did Luigi get into 64 despite him only getting player 2 appearances up to that point outside of an educational game that served no purpose other than disappointing kids on Christmas? How did side characters like Bowser Jr., Zelda, Dedede, Peach, or Meta Knight get in? If only characters who are the mascots of their own relevant games, why is it that R.O.B. got in, despite being an extension to a console?

From what I've seen, Bandana Dee is more requested than Captain Toad. BWD's support thread has over 70 pages now, while Captain Toad's has only 30. I know comparing numbers like this is petty, but Bandana Dee is one of the most requested characters overall, to the point of a majority of comments on speculation videos are a) lists of characters they want that have Bandana Dee on them or b) just "I hope BWD gets in". Captain Toad is definitely popular, but among the community, BWD is more popular (he's especially popular in Japan, I've heard).

I'm not saying Captain Toad doesn't deserve to be in Smash at all; quite the contrary, I'd love to see him in and he has a lot of potential. I'm simply saying that 1. the arguments against BWD are invalid, 2. the same """"""""""arguments"""""""""" you can make against BWD you could make against Cpt. Toad (even though they're invalid arguments) and 3. therefore, not only is it not very reasonable to be opposed to adding BWD, but it's completely unreasonable to be opposed to BWD if you support Captain Toad, because the """"""""""arguments"""""""""" you can make against Bandana Dee can just as easily as you could use those """"""""""arguments"""""""""" against Captain Toad.

I don't think he's saying that only characters who starred in their own have should be in, but rather that they have a higher chance. In that regard, Cpt. Toad does have an edge that BWD lacks, and it wouldn't be unlikely that that edge could be what motivates Sakurai to prioritize a Cpt. Toad over BWD. And so if GameXplain thinks that's a difference maker, they've got the logical foundation for it. Does that mean it's a 100% guarantee? Of course not. But it's far from unreasonable or unfair to BWD.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Muh relevancy is by far the worst argument. By far. I can understand why a company would push characters they're trying to market, but fans should care only about characters they like, regardless of how long ago their games were released. I seriously don't understand people who look at cool characters and dislike them exclusively because they're not relevant.

Thankfully that stupid as hell argument suffered a great blow with K.Rool, a nowadays-irrelevant character who nevertheless had enough of a resume to deserve a spot, so in a way, Sakurai seems to agree. But if it was Sakurai pushing the agenda, I'd understand, since Nintendo would want characters that market current games. But it's usually fans who get extremely defensive about a character being irrelevant, and as such, unworthy.

I can understand many arguments, really, even if I don't agree with them. "Waluigi is unimportant to his own series and as such he doesn't deserve to be in Smash!" Okay, I can see why one would think that. It's true that Waluigi's never had an important role in a Mario game. "Bandana Waddle Dee is just a hat goomba!" Well, regardless of how true or false this is, that's basically saying his design is unappealing. "Isaac would just be another generic anime swordsman!" Not true, but he might look like it. Those arguments are meh, but I can see why those things would make those characters unappealing (even if they are based on wrong assumptions).

But "this character's game was enjoyed many years ago rather than a couple of years ago" is extremely dumb, because it implied the only thing against this character's inclusion is the chronological point in time in which their game was released.

The prevalence of recency-biased arguments is the consequence of people conflate notability with recency, rather than looking at general impact, all whilst deluding themselves into thinking the only audience that matters are little kids and that anything that has a recent successful game is automatically going to be inherently more appealing than characters with a lack of recent appearance. This is the biggest reason why people argued that K. Rool wouldn't do well on the ballot and we all know how that argument went.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

I don't think he's saying that only characters who starred in their own have should be in, but rather that they have a higher chance. In that regard, Cpt. Toad does have an edge that BWD lacks, and it wouldn't be unlikely that that edge could be what motivates Sakurai to prioritize a Cpt. Toad over BWD. And so if GameXplain thinks that's a difference maker, they've got the logical foundation for it. Does that mean it's a 100% guarantee? Of course not. But it's far from unreasonable or unfair to BWD.

That's a fair point. It is possible Sakurai could see Cpt. Toad as more relevant than BWD, but even if so, we all know how unpredictable Sakurai is, and any requested character has a fairly high chance of making it in (just look at Ridley and K. Rool, who were brought in almost exclusively on fan demand).

However, GameXplain's criticism of Dee is very unfair and quite unreasonable. For example, one of their arguments was seriously "They removed Waddle Dee Toss and Waddle Dee Army from Dedede's moveset, which obviously means that Waddle Dees aren't fit for battle, which means Bandana Dee doesn't deserve to be in Smash Bros!", despite a) that obviously being due to the 3DS' limitations and have nothing to do with Waddle Dees as a species, b) having not all that much to do with BWD because he's not just a generic enemy, and c) even if you made the connection between those moves and BWD, the removal of those moves would increase his chances because Waddle Dees were removed from Dedede's moveset.

I mean, listen to these rebuttals:

Spoiler: Bad Rebuttals

https://youtu.be/cXH29sGMecs?t=1m15s
https://youtu.be/cXH29sGMecs?t=3m18s
https://youtu.be/cXH29sGMecs?t=7m09s
https://youtu.be/cXH29sGMecs?t=10m12s

It's pathetic, and if you watch the full video the prosecution makes great arguments while the defense repeats the same point over and over despite it being invalidated multiple times and taking all of the arguments out of context without any research whatsoever (he literally uses a parasol in Battle Royale and the defense says it ruins the point of a spear character, invalidates the prosecution's statements about the importance of BWD, and turns him into a generic Parasol Dee). And the defense wins. And they say at the end that "he might be fit for an assist trophy".

It's not that they think he's not relevant enough. I actually don't know why they don't think he could/should be playable. He's one of the most deserving characters out there and one of the most requested. I think they just don't like him.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

"His popularity only spiked due to Star Allies, he is flavor of the month."
While Marx's popularity did indeed only spike after Star Allies, calling him flavor of the month is unfair as Marx has been a very popular request for a while now.

"Magolor will knock down his popularity because Magolor is more popular"
This really depends on your region, in Japan definitely but in the west, I'd argue Magolor will still be dwarfed by Marx in popularity due to the heavy 90's nostalgia, true villainy and moveset potential he brings not to mention he's arguably the most important and well known Kirby villain there is.

"He's not a true villain due to Star Allies"
Yes he is, unlike Kirby and the rest of the lot who want to save the world, in the official Japanese guide for the DLC it states that he's only there because he wants to kill the Jambastions, wanting to do something for bloodlust and not defending your home isn't very heroic... and besides he's probably also using this to maybe sneak in another one of his deception plans... Kirby and Dedede are gullible enough for it to happen twice.

 

[Kulty]

For Shadow The Hedgehog,

1. ''He's just a dark version of Sonic. Nothing special about him...''
2. ''Sonic doesn't deserve a 2nd representation, because his games are bad.''
3. ''So the Sonic franchise finally has their edgelord in the game. How nice... (sarcastically)''

There are some that I can think off, but those are the main ones that trigger me.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

"Ninten shouldn't be a character he's just Ness with his hat turned a different way"

(meanwhile Ninten is a pretty different character in terms of fighting when compared to Ness).

 

[JadeBladeGamer22]

Steve?

"He's a kids character"
"He wouldn't fit"

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Steve?

"He's a kids character"
"He wouldn't fit"

Both are horrible reasons, i agree, almost everyone in Smash are kid games and they don't fit

 

[Ninten DS]

Newcomers
Captain Toad:
-He can't jump
-He's still a Toad
Tingle:
-He looks like a pervert
Porky Minch:
-He's too big
-He's a terrible person
-He was a boss
-Earthbound doesn't deserve another rep because it's a dead franchise

Echoes
Louie:
-Pikmin is already well represented
-It should have been Alph as an echo
Ninten:
-He's too similar to Ness
-Earthbound doesn't deserve another rep because it's a dead franchise
Black Shadow:
-I haven't seen people complaining about him so I guess he's free

 

[Iko MattOrr]

View attachment 166479

Because it looks like Mewtwo and uses Psychic Attacks.

Sorry for the small off topic but... really? That's how Gygas looks in the game?!? So, that thing that everyone thought was his mouth, are instead just his ears?!? It's way less creepy if you see it this way, and probably that's how it was supposed to be since the beginning, since it fits with the shape of its former body.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Sorry for the small off topic but... really? That's how Gygas looks in the game?!? So, that thing that everyone thought was his mouth, are instead just his ears?!? It's way less creepy if you see it this way, and probably that's how it was supposed to be since the beginning, since it fits with the shape of its former body.

Sakurai also confirmed that the model has to be the same height as said in his latest Fatmitsu Column

Also bad excuse for Paper Mario and Banjo-Kazooie
His recent games suck
https://www.google.com.au/imgres?im...hUKEwizmfqCo-DdAhVRPHAKHfXcDtsQ_B0wFXoECAUQEw

 

[Robertroid]

"Ninten shouldn't be a character he's just Ness with his hat turned a different way"

(meanwhile Ninten is a pretty different character in terms of fighting when compared to Ness).

But up to now, almost every fan requests Ninten to be a clone of Ness

And I can foresee that to make smash fans angry, as he looks visually quite similar to Ness, so if given another spot and being an echo, the backlash may be huge. So better give an unique moveset just in case.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I really and BWD in so much and with each passing day I feel more and more confused as to why anyone would think he's a bad addition to the game I get it, people want their most wanted's over him but think logically.

 

[NukeA6]

Steve?

"He's a kids character"
"He wouldn't fit"

His haters just take one look at him and assume he'd be the most boring character ever yet few have a problem with the Villager and the Ice Climbers (both who aren't exactly gonna win awards for looking the most awesome).

 

[FirestormNeos]

"He's a kids character"
"He wouldn't fit"

"that's an oxymoron, lad."

Porky Minch:
-He's a terrible person

But... he's a villain... and 's already in smash.

 

[Ninten DS]

"that's an oxymoron, lad."

But... he's a villain... and 's already in smash.

"Nobody likes Porky because he killed Lucas' brother, his mother, made chimeras", and yes, I've heard people say Porky shouldn't be playable because of that. Meh, not really an opinion that's said a lot but I've still heard it.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

"Nobody likes Porky because he killed Lucas' brother, his mother, made chimeras", and yes, I've heard people say Porky shouldn't be playable because of that. Meh, not really an opinion that's said a lot but I've still heard it.

THAT'S WHY he DESERVES to be in Smash. He's a fantastic villain. Might as well round off Lucas and Ness with Porky considering has history with both.

 

[Ninten DS]

THAT'S WHY he DESERVES to be in Smash. He's a fantastic villain. Might as well round off Lucas and Ness with Porky considering has history with both.

That's why I hate that argument against Porky, and also that's the reason why I love him. I really wish Porky got in, but feels like he's going to be a boss, with Ninten taking his slot. He'll still be my most wanted tho.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I agree so much with Mariomaniac, that is why Porky is such an amazing villain. He started out as a regular boy like Ness and oh how Giygas corrupted his mind!