What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

[SmashBro99]

My poor Waluigi, it's probably been mentioned already but I have some things to say.

"No moveset potential" - Ignorant people that don't know the character/haven't played games he appears in. This is a pretty stupid argument for any character though, a lot of moves have been improvised for characters to flesh out movesets if you really think about it. A moveset consisting of swimming through air, using piranha plants and bomb-ombs, as well as sports equipment and dancing, yes please! When is the last time you saw Mario spike someone to their death outside of smash? Every character has had their moveset filled with moves we've never seen before in their games, Link kicking people?

"Not enough appearances/major roles" - I can't fight the major roles argument, Nintendo really hasn't used him well, but appearances, he's been in just about every spinoff/sports game, which happens to be a ton. Geno though, one appearance and one cameo lol.

"Just a meme character" - I can understand people who just see the memes think that, but there are people like myself who love the character, I use him in every game he's in, all the time. Just because you don't know the character and see him in memes doesn't mean he doesn't have fans.

The fact that Daisy made it and Waluigi hasn't (yet ) is a bit silly, but I guess if she wasn't a recolor of Peach she wouldn't have been added.

I can see why people don't "like him" sure, but I don't get how people hate him and don't think he deserves a spot, aside from those people harassing Sakurai, and no, I don't support that at all, dude kills himself for us and deserves all the respect and support in the world.

---

Isaac

*sees sword* EW ANOTHER SWORDFIGHTER - Play Golden Sun.

 

[FunAtParties]

Shadow:
I'd rather have Tails/Tails is a better choice

"I'd rather have Tails" isn't a criticism

 

[RineYFD]

Sora:
He's Disney so he won't join because Disney is very strict about their properties:
First off it's actually Nomura who chooses what Sora appears in. Since Disney and Square have a close connection they let Nomura decide what he appears in, advertisements, games etc. Because they don't want to betray Nomura and the fans view of Sora. Even Vice President of Disney Japan, Justin Scarpone said he would be interested in putting Sora in Smash. And we all know Disney loves money. Smash is a big franchise that attracts money(Self explanatory right here) and would be a good way to advertise Kingdom Hearts since most of the mainstream crowd doesn't know much about Kingdom Hearts that much,
Sora can't work without Donald and Goofy, they're the fourth party so they can't be in the game, and Sora cant work by himself:
Um........ Yes, he can in fact! I have counted a few times in the series where Sora got separated from those two and he could still fight. Most of his attacks are either original or from Final Fantasy itself. Even then Donald and Goofy could just make an appearance as a Final Smash or trophies. It's not like they're a big appearance.
Sora would open the floodgates to fourth party characters:
No, he wouldn't. Sora made his first appearance in a video game so therefore's he's Third Party. Even if his first appearance was with movie characters he's still a third party. Plus R.O.B is a toy and he never appears in the games he's packaged with. Yet he appears in Smash, despite the fact he never really debuted in a game. Something like Goku, however, would open the floodgates.
Tails:
Tails is too cowardly nowadays to fight:
Alright,
so we got the Duck Hunt Dog, Wii Fit Trainer, R.O.B, Villager and Isabelle. Wanna know what they all have in common? THEY'VE NEVER ACTUALLY FOUGHT PEOPLE!!!
At least in the early games you could play as Tails and jump on some robots, you could play as Tails. Even then in the modern games, he has done stuff that is quite still dangerous.
Shadow makes more sense since he could be an Echo for Sonic:
Yeah but Tails has had more of a history in the Sonic franchise. Plus Isabelle being in kinda decreases that a lot now. Yes Shadow could still be an Echo, but since Tails probably got more votes in the Smash Ballot(since Shadow was still an Assist Trophy at the time) and Tails got a Mii Costume(Just like Chrom, King K. Rool, The Inkling and Isabelle). And yeas I am aware that Isabelle was an Assist Trophy in Smash 4 too. But with the theme, we've had with the Mii Costumes and the fact that Waluigi and Ashley(two other highly requested characters, WHO ARE ALSO ASSIST TROPHIES) arent in still means Tails has a Good chance.
Tails make an appearance in the background of Green Hill Zone. Characters who have appearancs in a stage cant join:
For Stage Hazard, yes this rule applies. However for characters in the background of the stage, it doesn't. Remember back in the early days of Smash 4, before Toon Link was revealed, he made an appearance in the Spirit Tracks stage. However when he was revealed it was revealed if you play as him in the Spirit Tracks Stage Aflonzo would appear instead. Same goes with Dedede in Dreamland 64. If you play as him in that stage in 3DS/Wii U he no longer appears in te background

 

[Tetiro]

I think for me the most hated critique is not a particular one but rather the ones that can never back up their claim. In otherwords no actual ground

Let's take Isaac for example.

• Another swordsman? We already have enough Fire Emblem
  • Genuine one I've heard. Firstly, he's got magic. Secondly, tell that to Xenoblade. It makes no sense
• Too niche a franchise. It has to be popular
  • Erm, Sakurai has included niche franchises before. Ice Climbers for example. And Dark Pit. It's clear Sakurai doesn't care about that. Just as long as there is a demand by the community
• Definitely no moveset potential
  • Right...so you've probably only spent five minutes thinking through this one. Game Design takes weeks (I should know, I did it!). Research their games, find out their abilities and then come back to this. Sakurai made Wii Fit Trainer a fighter. Anyone is possible
• From a Dead Franchise
  • Sure. Oh how's the Pikmin Kid Icarus (at the time he was added) franchise? That's doing pretty well right? Or how about Duck Hunt? Sakurai doesn't care. Demand is more important

So far I have been spot on with my predictions because I put the petty stuff aside. I look what the fans want and assess which ones are actually possible, look at their hurdles and make a decision. In fact the only three that caught me out were Simon, Richter and Daisy. And there were just cut off my list.

Sometimes I think Smash fans put their own ego on the line and it tarnishes their honest judgement. So this time I put that aside and looked at the honest potentials. And sure enough I have been doing good on the prediction front.

EDIT: Opps! I forgot about the year gaps between Pikmin games. My mistake!

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Tetiro to be fair, Pikmin is pretty much alive, I'd use another example. Still, I 100% agree on the rest.
Had you said; F-Zero, Earthbound, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, or any series that is actually dormant then I wouldn't complain, but Pikmin 4 is in the works. Just a nitpick.

 

[MrRoidley]

Skull Kid: "isn't that popular" (when he is pretty popular??????), "never actually fought in his game" (he'd be possessed by the mask in Smash, and see Hyrule Warriors)

 

[Tetiro]

Tetiro to be fair, Pikmin is pretty much alive, I'd use another example. Still, I 100% agree on the rest.
Had you said; F-Zero, Earthbound, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, or any series that is actually dormant then I wouldn't complain, but Pikmin 4 is in the works. Just a nitpick.

Not a worry I have updated it with a more relevant title at the time. I forgot the gaps between games. Simple mistake to make!

 

[Graf von Tirol]

"Geno is obscure and only appeared in one game."

... really? You know who only appeared in one game and has been on the roster since Melee? The Ice Climbers. Also, Kid Icarus was a dead franchise before Brawl was announced, so "obscurity" should not disqualify a candidate.

 

[VashTehStampede]

When talking about Lloyd Irving

"He's another sword user"

That's such a dated complaint and it's just ridiculous. It's a game compiled of fantasy type characters and there's been plenty of charts and debates about how sword users dont even make up half the roster for ultimate. Lloyd could bring a very unique and interesting take on the sword user pool aswell given he has two. Along with the huge array of artes tales games are known for. I dont know how anyone could discredit him just because of his weapon choice. Lloyd's chances are pretty darn high when it comes to making the roaster and I just want to see my boy finally get his chance to hang out with the big league!

 

[Mario123311]

I honestly have more complaints against Lloyd than just being another swordfighter but I don't want to drag drama here. It has to do with his series' treatment outside of Smash compared to other Namco IPs in general for the past few years... Including Pac-Man. - w -;;

 

[FunAtParties]

"Geno is obscure and only appeared in one game."

... really? You know who only appeared in one game and has been on the roster since Melee? The Ice Climbers. Also, Kid Icarus was a dead franchise before Brawl was announced, so "obscurity" should not disqualify a candidate.

I just hate that criticism in general. If Geno or anyone else is popular despite a large presence more power to him. I think it's great that characters with one-time, memorable roles can get this popular. It makes it feel like anyone really has a chance, and that's how it should be imo.

 

[Delzethin]

Might as well.

I've heard a lot of critique toward Lycanroc over the last year-plus. Some of it's valid, some less so, the kind of stuff you get with most characters. But the one that frustrates me the most, that feels the most like a result of naysayers not bothering to do the research? The claim that Lycanroc would be a boring newcomer due to having "no personality".

There're a couple things wrong with that. First of all, even if we were talking a character with no standout personality, it's not as if that was ever a deal breaker in the past. Case in point, these newcomers were basically blank slates until they showed up:



Yet they don't feel that way in Smash at all. So why would an alleged lack of personality stop Lycanroc dead when it didn't for a handful of characters in the past? Why is it only okay when they do it?

But even that misses the point...because Lycanroc actually does have personality, just the kind of stuff that requires doing more than just looking at one piece of concept art and calling it a day. In fact, the lore behind each form that was added to the Sun & Moon website the moment after their official reveals paints a clear picture. Midday Lycanrocs are easygoing, loyal companions who prefer to avoid conflict but will protect friends and loved ones (or engage in friendly battles) if necessary. In contrast, Midnight Lycanrocs burn with a desire to fight and prove their strength, actively goading potential opponents into combat, and with an independent and willful streak that leads them to actively defy orders from people they do not trust.

But it's the Dusk form where things get most interesting, because it takes all of the above from both Midday and Midnight, and merges them into one entity. Clashing personality traits lead to a character with a dualistic nature, one who seeks only to fight if there's a purpose for it, yet carefully contains an inner fury that they unleash with relentless force when they do fight.

While the games aren't very upfront about these personality traits, the anime is:

Which is a pretty big deal, since while Pokémon characters in Smash are ostensibly based on the games, they almost always draw inspiration from the anime.

And it's there where Dusk Lycanroc's personality shines. Say what you want about the show, but it actually captures (heh) the lore very well with Ash's team leader for Alola:

A character who can be gentle and friendly...

Berserk and reckless...

And, after some character development, enraged yet completely in control. These three clips all depict the same individual.

It's a really unique blend of personality traits that you rarely see together elsewhere. And that's on top of the other upsides Lycanroc can offer, like a feral quadrupedal build that we haven't had in Smash yet (since Ivysaur has prehensile vines and the Duck Hunt dog is basically a Looney Tunes character), and mastery over earth and stone, an element that is still completely untouched (and wouldn't even be redundant next to Isaac, since the two wield earth in vastly different ways)! And since the anime is such a huge undertaking, it must be planned out a long time in advance, meaning the odds of Sakurai having been made aware of all of this are...well, they're quite significant.

Sure, there're still some questions worth asking. Especially with these damn rumors hanging overhead. But if anyone claims Lycanroc has no personality, they're dead wrong.

 

[Esquelen]

Rhythm Heaven character for being to obscure character, but I think it's not like that, it's not that popular, but it does not get obscure.

 

[Luigifan18]

Tails make an appearance in the background of Green Hill Zone. Characters who have appearancs in a stage cant join:
For Stage Hazard, yes this rule applies. However for characters in the background of the stage, it doesn't. Remember back in the early days of Smash 4, before Toon Link was revealed, he made an appearance in the Spirit Tracks stage. However when he was revealed it was revealed if you play as him in the Spirit Tracks Stage Aflonzo would appear instead. Same goes with Dedede in Dreamland 64. If you play as him in that stage in 3DS/Wii U he no longer appears in te background

You forget that Knuckles, who also makes a cameo in the background of Green Hill Zone, is now an Assist Trophy, which is even more awkward to overlap with a stage cameo than a playable character. A playable character is either in a given match or he/she/it is not, making the binary decision of whether or not to disable or substitute their stage cameo an easy one. An Assist Trophy could show up at virtually any time as long as Assist Trophies (and items in general) are enabled, especially now that multiple Assist Trophies can be present at a time, as long as there is not code in place to keep a specific Assist Trophy from appearing on a given stage (like Smash 4's code excluding Star or Screen KOs from certain stages), and I'm pretty sure that having code to prevent Knuckles from coming to assist on Green Hill Zone would stick out like a sore thumb. If Knuckles can be an Assist Trophy while also being a stage cameo in the same game, the "stage cameo" role won't stop Tails from being playable.

Rhythm Heaven character for being to obscure character, but I think it's not like that, it's not that popular, but it does not get obscure.

Rhythm Heaven is only obscure in the West. It's actually huge in Japan, from what I've heard.

 

[MrPowerfulJeans]

Uhh... No one really talks about Blue, from what I can recall... So, I'll just make the case for Generation I Pokemon in general...

Too Many Gen 1 Reps: I see the argument, and, yeah, I'm all for Pokemon from different Generations joining the battle, but consider this: Other than Jigglypuff, the only other Gen 1 Pokemon in Smash are immensely popular picks (The Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, and Pikachu). I think we should have more variety in Gen 1 than just that. Like, there's Machamp, Pidgeot, Gengar, Alakazam, Arcanine, Starmie, Scyther, and the list goes on. And Blue, specifically, can fill three of those slots in one character. Obviously, I don't think there should be too many Gen 1 Pokemon, especially since Gen's 3 and 5 are barely represented at all, but some variety definitely doesn't hurt.

Too Many Pokemon Reps: I don't really like that argument. I understand it, but limiting the character options only because the franchise has too many representations is stupid. Obviously, I'm not saying they should add 12 more Pokemon, that'd be more understandable otherwise. All I'm saying is that, if I want a Pokemon Rep in Smash, I shouldn't listen to the argument that there are already too many reps from that franchise. And that could be said for any hugely represented franchise, like Mario & Fire Emblem. And I think this argument could be more understandable when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, but there are over 800 Pokemon. I think, of all franchises, Pokemon needs to worry about that the least.

 

[Luigifan18]

Uhh... No one really talks about Blue, from what I can recall... So, I'll just make the case for Generation I Pokemon in general...

Too Many Gen 1 Reps: I see the argument, and, yeah, I'm all for Pokemon from different Generations joining the battle, but consider this: Other than Jigglypuff, the only other Gen 1 Pokemon in Smash are immensely popular picks (The Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, and Pikachu). I think we should have more variety in Gen 1 than just that. Like, there's Machamp, Pidgeot, Gengar, Alakazam, Arcanine, Starmie, Scyther, and the list goes on. And Blue, specifically, can fill three of those slots in one character. Obviously, I don't think there should be too many Gen 1 Pokemon, especially since Gen's 3 and 5 are barely represented at all, but some variety definitely doesn't hurt.

Too Many Pokemon Reps: I don't really like that argument. I understand it, but limiting the character options only because the franchise has too many representations is stupid. Obviously, I'm not saying they should add 12 more Pokemon, that'd be more understandable otherwise. All I'm saying is that, if I want a Pokemon Rep in Smash, I shouldn't listen to the argument that there are already too many reps from that franchise. And that could be said for any hugely represented franchise, like Mario & Fire Emblem. And I think this argument could be more understandable when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, but there are over 800 Pokemon. I think, of all franchises, Pokemon needs to worry about that the least.

Oh, yes, I can already see the outcry if Dragonite gets in... >_<;

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Oh, yes, I can already see the outcry if Dragonite gets in... >_<;

People want Dragonite as a fighter?

 

[FirestormNeos]

People want Dragonite as a fighter?

Well it's not a starter pokemon, so I wouldn't say no to it, at the very least.

There's also that one video...

 

[ganondorf_22]

Nobody criticizes my most wanted character because he is perfect in every way.

 

[Muirkat]

iSaAc Is A gEnErIc SwOrDsMaN aNiMe BoY

 

[DNeon]

Apart from 'we have too much anime already' and 'too many swordsmen' like the same doesn't apply for fists apparently, my biggest is:

"They only appear in like, 1 Zelda game"

Yes, Zelda has recurring characters, a total of like...5 of them. Outside of the Triforce, just about everything else about the games resets with every iteration. It's not particularly different to FE, Pokemon and Xenoblade in that regard. Any particularly memorable character from LoZ is the same as any particularly memorable character from any of those. Just look at Hyrule Warriors as an example that there's a large popularity in the 1 offs and a large market looking for them to be remembered.

As for the arguments agaisnt my most wanteds:

Andy: "He's not even the favourite from the game/Sami is cooler" - well sure, but Sami doesn't make sense as the solo rep for the franchise, nor do I think that she's more popular globally but that's just an impression, nothing to back it up. Not to mention there's no reason they have to fight eachother for the spot, Echos and all that.

Bomberman: "His entire thing is bombs" - yeah, he just uses bombs...lots of different bombs, in many ways. Lil Mac just punches and Mario doesn't do much more than jump on heads usually. It's not even entirely true since the adventure games frequently include other gadgets, not to mention Karabons.

Master Chief: "Not on Nintendo" - it's actually crazy the amount of mental gymnastics used to fit this rule to Cloud
Also Chief: "Better FPS characters" - yeah, iD has the original FPS genre pushers, but the issue with Doom Slayer is that he lacks any kind of character outside of the fact that he's mad and he's brutal. Since the last one doesn't translate to Smash at all because...well they can't...he's just 'a very angry guy with a gun'. Yeah he's iconic but you can't just butcher what makes him iconic to put him in.

 

[FunAtParties]

Uhh... No one really talks about Blue, from what I can recall... So, I'll just make the case for Generation I Pokemon in general...

Too Many Gen 1 Reps: I see the argument, and, yeah, I'm all for Pokemon from different Generations joining the battle, but consider this: Other than Jigglypuff, the only other Gen 1 Pokemon in Smash are immensely popular picks (The Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, and Pikachu). I think we should have more variety in Gen 1 than just that. Like, there's Machamp, Pidgeot, Gengar, Alakazam, Arcanine, Starmie, Scyther, and the list goes on. And Blue, specifically, can fill three of those slots in one character. Obviously, I don't think there should be too many Gen 1 Pokemon, especially since Gen's 3 and 5 are barely represented at all, but some variety definitely doesn't hurt.

Too Many Pokemon Reps: I don't really like that argument. I understand it, but limiting the character options only because the franchise has too many representations is stupid. Obviously, I'm not saying they should add 12 more Pokemon, that'd be more understandable otherwise. All I'm saying is that, if I want a Pokemon Rep in Smash, I shouldn't listen to the argument that there are already too many reps from that franchise. And that could be said for any hugely represented franchise, like Mario & Fire Emblem. And I think this argument could be more understandable when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, but there are over 800 Pokemon. I think, of all franchises, Pokemon needs to worry about that the least.

This well written, so I hate to disagree, but I'm going to anyway, at least with the Gen 1 statement.

Gen 1 does have too many reps imo. There's 7 generations of Pokemon, and currently 9 Pokemon in Smash, but somehow 2/3 of the Pokemon in Smash are all from Gen 1. All Gen 2 gets is a clone, and Gen 3/5/7 (7 probably not for long) are all ignored entirely. As someone who thinks Meowth deserves a spot, it's hard for me to say, but I agree with anyone that says Gen 1 doesn't need anything else.

I also don't agree that all they Kanto starters are popular picks. Charizard, yeah, the rest, not so much. If they weren't vets, they wouldn't have had **** for requests.

 

[Machete]

This well written, so I hate to disagree, but I'm going to anyway, at least with the Gen 1 statement.

Gen 1 does have too many reps imo. There's 7 generations of Pokemon, and currently 9 Pokemon in Smash, but somehow 2/3 of the Pokemon in Smash are all from Gen 1. All Gen 2 gets is a clone, and Gen 3/5/7 (7 probably not for long) are all ignored entirely. As someone who thinks Meowth deserves a spot, it's hard for me to say, but I agree with anyone that says Gen 1 doesn't need anything else.

I also don't agree that all they Kanto starters are popular picks. Charizard, yeah, the rest, not so much. If they weren't vets, they wouldn't have had **** for requests.

Just because there are many non-Gen 1 Pokémon doesn't mean they're as popular, iconic, or important as the Gen 1 Pokémon. The fact we're getting another Kanto remake, the success of Pokémon GO, and all the Gen 1 pandering in recent Pokémon games proves Gen 1 Pokémon are on a category of their own. Game Freak certainly treats them as far more important than the other 'mons. Neither The Pokémon Company nor Smash Bros has treated the different Pokémon generations equally.

Having said that, I do agree that there shouldn't be more Gen 1 Pokémon, and that it'd be healthier for Smash Bros to represent newer generations. If Smash Bros had to be limited by what's more popular, we'd have a pure Mario vs Pokémon fighting game with cameos by Link, Kirby, and Miis. I wish it was an Ultra Beast precisely because it's a more unique, Gen 7-exclusive concept.

 

[xzx]

Paper Mario: "Just another Mario" ...

 

[Nekoo]

Well. It's easy. Since I got Roy, Cloud and now Chrom most of the argument broke down. But there still ONE newcomers I really want. Sora.

>He's Disney
Yes and? He's still eligible for smash. And while he's legally a Disney characters most people still link him to Square...
Since jeee... that's the whole goal of KH at first

>Muh He need Disney content to fight
Not true. Out of all the game he's in. Sora NEED Disney partner only in KH 1 and KH II (and soon KH III). And the Keychain is a non issue and at worst he have tons of keychain to use.

>There Geno who's a better Square-Rep

It can be anyone. It can be Lara Croft, DQ like Eldrick or Eight or Slime, a Chocobo or whatever. Square could make a Smash game with all of their series without blushing in front of Smash in term of iconic Characters. They have toooons of Series and they're all worth to be in. Whenever it's DQ, Lara, FF or Sora, we shouldn't use "X have more chance than Y" when we have the notoriety to always be wrong with that argument in smash.

 

[Luigifan18]

People want Dragonite as a fighter?

Well, I do, at least. It's my second-favorite Pokémon (first is Mew, third is Heatran).

Well it's not a starter pokemon, so I wouldn't say no to it, at the very least.

There's also that one video...

What one video?

 

[FunAtParties]

Just because there are many non-Gen 1 Pokémon doesn't mean they're as popular, iconic, or important as the Gen 1 Pokémon. The fact we're getting another Kanto remake, the success of Pokémon GO, and all the Gen 1 pandering in recent Pokémon games proves Gen 1 Pokémon are on a category of their own. Game Freak certainly treats them as far more important than the other 'mons. Neither The Pokémon Company nor Smash Bros has treated the different Pokémon generations equally.

Having said that, I do agree that there shouldn't be more Gen 1 Pokémon, and that it'd be healthier for Smash Bros to represent newer generations. If Smash Bros had to be limited by what's more popular, we'd have a pure Mario vs Pokémon fighting game with cameos by Link, Kirby, and Miis. I wish it was an Ultra Beast precisely because it's a more unique, Gen 7-exclusive concept.

Gen 1 is in a "category of it's own" because Game Freak treats it with a bias. Plenty of well-known and loved Pokemon originate from later games, and there's plenty of Gen 1 Pokemon overvalued from older fans who refuse to address anything past Gen 2. I'm not really about this Gen 1 bias at all.

 

[Luigifan18]

Gen 1 is in a "category of it's own" because Game Freak treats it with a bias. Plenty of well-known and loved Pokemon originate from later games, and there's plenty of Gen 1 Pokemon overvalued from older fans who refuse to address anything past Gen 2. I'm not really about this Gen 1 bias at all.

Yeah... my two favorite Pokémon are both Gen I (Mew and Dragonite), but my third-favorite, Heatran, is Gen IV.

 

[Machete]

and there's plenty of Gen 1 Pokemon overvalued from older fans who refuse to address anything past Gen 2.

which is precisely why they're on a category of their own? and why Gen 1 Pokemon are used in the marketing of stuff like Let's Go, and why the Alolan forms, and why Pokemon Go was a success? Which is why they are on a category of their own?

I am not sure what your point is.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Yarn Yoshi

He can easily be an alternate for Yoshi :
I don't beileve that since Yarn Yoshi has differences from Yoshi, the wooly stuff, recovery, eggs can be replaced with yarn, it'd be weird for Yarn Yoshi to throw an egg instead of Yarn

Unrelevent :
Ok let's see, Yoshi's wooly world in 2015 and Yoshi and Poochy's wooly world 2017. Lol do your research

Too generic :
I'm not starting on this one, people are idiots to say this if this was true then this applies to

Birdo and Boshi make better echoes instead of Yarn Yoshi, he's uneeded :
Wow, people never do research, Birdo and Boshi never appeared in Yoshi games and they need to or else Yarn Yoshi gets it or cross series echoes are allowed or only DK, Yoshi and Warioware franchise have cross series echo due to them being linked. he can also be a troll character and like retro characters, there are 2 each game ever since Melee
Melee : Dr Mario and Pichu
Brawl : Pokemon Trainer and Olimar
4 : Bowser Jr and Wii Fit Trainer
Yes while other fighters fit the list like Killager, Duck Hunt, ROB and Jigglypuff i've excuses for them, Killager was wanted alot due to New Leaf's popularity so Sakurai revived his old idea, he was also asked for in the proposal for Smash 4 along with Rosalina and Luma, Duck Hunt and ROB are retro also got in due to their legacy, Duck hunt was fun for many NES owners and ROB was the reason people buyed NES they are a trio (along with Mario) and Jigglypuff was added cause she was popular during the 151 days and ay Kirby semi echo (i prefer semi clone).

 

[FunAtParties]

which is precisely why they're on a category of their own? and why Gen 1 Pokemon are used in the marketing of stuff like Let's Go, and why the Alolan forms, and why Pokemon Go was a success? Which is why they are on a category of their own?

I am not sure what your point is.

Pokemon Go was a success because of the gimmick of being a real life Pokemon trainer. You had already made a decent point before then, so I don't see why you softballed that in there.

My original point is the other Gens all have their own gems, and Gen 1 isn't so special that it needs 2/3 of the representation in Smash. Of course the first gen is the most significant, but it isn't THAT significant to where it completely eclipses everything else the series has.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

I've seen plenty of people touch up on the Hat Goomba argument against Bandana Dee so I guess I'll touch up on something else.

"He doesn't have moveset potential beside his spear"/"He's just the Spear ability."/"He wouldn't be unique at all."
First off: They managed to make two entirely different movesets consisting pretty much only using a sword (Marth, Ike), there's no reason to believe they couldn't make one with a spear alone. And besides, simple doesn't necessarily equal bad. But I would agree that I'd prefer to see some other things mixed in, which brings me to my second point:

Ironic how him being a special case of a mook actually gives him much more moveset potential than one would think. People tend to cite Dee's parasol as another weapon he's used. (And admittedly, Parasol and Spear are more than enough to create an entire moveset around.) Smash Flash 2 also incorporated Beam attacks from Waddle Doos. Bandana Dee was created for the purpose of being a Waddle Dee representative if Star Allies' pause screens are any indication, so giving him Waddle Doo attacks isn't really strange when taking that into consideration. And besides, Sakurai is no stranger to giving a few moves to characters who never used said moves. (Ness, Lucas.)

And besides, why limit his possibilities to just these three abilities? You got other stuff to pull from such as Return to Dreamland's various items, Rainbow Curse's transformations, and if Dee's not in the base roster, they could make use of Battle Royale's versions of various abilities that have different moves from mainline games, as well as friend formations and elemental effects from Star Allies!

Going back to my Waddle Dee representative point, Waddle Dees have also been seen using bow and arrow (Epic Yarn), riding Nruffs (boar-like enemies found in Return to Dream Land and Star Allies), driving cars (Planet Robobot), and much more. Sure, stuff like driving cars is extremely minor and in one game, but the point is: Waddle Dees have been seen using various objects and whatnot, they could easily, EASILY make a solid moveset when combined with the weapons he's used.

And if you want him to only use stuff that he's familiar with, look no further than this potential moveset. Credit goes to Bandanna_Waddle_Dee for making it.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

I've seen plenty of people touch up on the Hat Goomba argument against Bandana Dee so I guess I'll touch up on something else.

"He doesn't have moveset potential beside his spear"/"He's just the Spear ability."/"He wouldn't be unique at all."
First off: They managed to make two entirely different movesets consisting pretty much only using a sword (Marth, Ike), there's no reason to believe they couldn't make one with a spear alone. And besides, simple doesn't necessarily equal bad. But I would agree that I'd prefer to see some other things mixed in, which brings me to my second point:

Ironic how him being a special case of a mook actually gives him much more moveset potential than one would think. People tend to cite Dee's parasol as another weapon he's used. (And admittedly, Parasol and Spear are more than enough to create an entire moveset around.) Smash Flash 2 also incorporated Beam attacks from Waddle Doos. Bandana Dee was created for the purpose of being a Waddle Dee representative if Star Allies' pause screens are any indication, so giving him Waddle Doo attacks isn't really strange when taking that into consideration. And besides, Sakurai is no stranger to giving a few moves to characters who never used said moves. (Ness, Lucas.)

And besides, why limit his possibilities to just these three abilities? You got other stuff to pull from such as Return to Dreamland's various items, Rainbow Curse's transformations, and if Dee's not in the base roster, they could make use of Battle Royale's versions of various abilities that have different moves from mainline games, as well as friend formations and elemental effects from Star Allies!

Going back to my Waddle Dee representative point, Waddle Dees have also been seen using bow and arrow (Epic Yarn), riding Nruffs (boar-like enemies found in Return to Dream Land and Star Allies), driving cars (Planet Robobot), and much more. Sure, stuff like driving cars is extremely minor and in one game, but the point is: Waddle Dees have been seen using various objects and whatnot, they could easily, EASILY make a solid moveset when combined with the weapons he's used.

And if you want him to only use stuff that he's familiar with, look no further than this potential moveset. Credit goes to Bandanna_Waddle_Dee for making it.

DOn't forget his parasol from battle royale

 

[SupriceSupplies]

DOn't forget his parasol from battle royale

People tend to cite Dee's parasol as another weapon he's used.

I did.

 

[jamesster445]

I heard a particularly dumb argument regarding Master Chief recently.

How putting him in is like putting an soldier from Call of Duty or Fortnite.

Wut?

MC is a distinct character than the multiplayer Spartans, complete with a story arc and a personality. He's also iconic enough that anyone can take a look at him and go "I know who that is".

 

[Jyl]

I think currently the biggest one that gets me is how people think Lip's Stick being in the game automatically deconfirms her, when items used by playable characters already exists. Granted Lip's Stick is Lip's main weapon but still it's not a 100% deconfirmation.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

My poor Waluigi, it's probably been mentioned already but I have some things to say.

"No moveset potential" - Ignorant people that don't know the character/haven't played games he appears in. This is a pretty stupid argument for any character though, a lot of moves have been improvised for characters to flesh out movesets if you really think about it. A moveset consisting of swimming through air, using piranha plants and bomb-ombs, as well as sports equipment and dancing, yes please! When is the last time you saw Mario spike someone to their death outside of smash? Every character has had their moveset filled with moves we've never seen before in their games, Link kicking people?

"Not enough appearances/major roles" - I can't fight the major roles argument, Nintendo really hasn't used him well, but appearances, he's been in just about every spinoff/sports game, which happens to be a ton. Geno though, one appearance and one cameo lol.

"Just a meme character" - I can understand people who just see the memes think that, but there are people like myself who love the character, I use him in every game he's in, all the time. Just because you don't know the character and see him in memes doesn't mean he doesn't have fans.

The fact that Daisy made it and Waluigi hasn't (yet ) is a bit silly, but I guess if she wasn't a recolor of Peach she wouldn't have been added.

I can see why people don't "like him" sure, but I don't get how people hate him and don't think he deserves a spot, aside from those people harassing Sakurai, and no, I don't support that at all, dude kills himself for us and deserves all the respect and support in the world.

---

Isaac

*sees sword* EW ANOTHER SWORDFIGHTER - Play Golden Sun.

https://imgur.com/a/Nc33X4L You have a competition on why Waluigi should/shouldn't be in smash

 

[Fatmanonice]

"Geno is obscure and only appeared in one game."

... really? You know who only appeared in one game and has been on the roster since Melee? The Ice Climbers. Also, Kid Icarus was a dead franchise before Brawl was announced, so "obscurity" should not disqualify a candidate.

Not to mention that the addition of Richter utterly annihilated this argument. If Smash in 2018 can get a third party character who premiered in a Japanese exclusive game in 1993 and last major playable appearance was 1997 and mostly considered a cult classic, any argument about obscurity or age is virtually moot.

 

[jamesster445]

https://imgur.com/a/Nc33X4L You have a competition on why Waluigi should/shouldn't be in smash

Well that was one the stupidest things I've ever read.

More than anything else I've always hated the argument that Waluigi doesn't have a personality.

Waluigi has surprisingly, one of the most developed personalities despite being just a spin off character. Hie's a braggadocios a$$ that gets super salty when he loses while popping off when he gets the slightest victory. He's a self pitying loser who desperately wants attention. Have you ever wondered why a self conscious person such as Waluigi often has a defensive playstyle in the Sports games? Waluigi's actions informed not just by how he's treated in universe but also in a meta way how he's treated IRL. To say he doesn't have a personality/character is ignorant.
Second, there's no moveset potential. Have you ever been smacked in the face with a baseball bat? Waluigi is an athlethe, and athletes are basically humans in their physical prime. It shouldn't be hard to make a moveset use sports equipment in addition to his unique body proportions and his trickster mindset.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anything relating to “leakers” and the Box theory.....