What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

[User Name String]

Which Isaac are we talking about? Golden Sun, or Lost Magic?

Yes

 

[Luigifan18]

Yes

Ah, so I'm not the only one who fondly remembers Lost Magic.

 

[TappyBat]

Which Isaac are we talking about? Golden Sun, or Lost Magic?

Oh Golden Sun. Lost Magic would count too I guess

 

[smashingDoug]

.
Sadly, Vaati has lost relevance, considering that everyone is creaming themselves over Skull Kid... .

Not to hate on skull kid but I feel he is only as popular as he is because of the leaks

 

[Luigifan18]

Bomberman: "What would his moveset even be? An assist trophy was the only potential he had."

WHAT?!?!? Wha... what the hell... there are actually people who see him like this?!? ...I feel like throttling something at the moment.

 

[TappyBat]

WHAT?!?!? Wha... what the hell... there are actually people who see him like this?!? ...I feel like throttling something at the moment.

guess they never played Hero, 64/Second attack or any of the games with the carabombs in them. :/ Pommy would be such a cute trophy too.

 

[PhantomShab]

I'd like Vaati too but I'm assuming he has even less chances than Skull Kid since Nintendo seems to avoid acknowledging the Capcom Zelda games unless they absolutely have to.

WHAT?!?!? Wha... what the hell... there are actually people who see him like this?!? ...I feel like throttling something at the moment.

Yeah it's incredibly stupid and annoying seeing this used as an argument against Bomberman when he not only has a lot of moveset potential if you used even just a bit of imagination, but there are also playable fighters who have done next to nothing at all and still have full fleshed out movesets.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Only newcomer on my wish list that I've seen people badmouth would be Sora, namely for being "a fourth-party" character, even though the Kingdom Hearts games are developed and published by Square Enix. Yes, they heavily feature Disney properties as levels, but those have been glorified background noise to the story in every game except the first one.

And besides, Sakurai considered bringing in James ****ing Bond at one point. I think putting in a video game character owned by a non-video game company is pretty damn tame by comparison.

Edit: Seeing that picture comparing Sora to Rex has gotten me thinking... Am I pointing out the obvious when I say that Rex looks like he was designed by Nomura?

 

[Idon]

(Looking at you, 8 billion Gokus)

DBFZ's alterations are far, FAR, more unique and different than even most of the semi-clones.

I find it best not to judge things purely on their face value, and actually examine what they actually DO.

 

[TappyBat]

Only newcomer on my wish list that I've seen people badmouth would be Sora, namely for being "a fourth-party" character, even though the Kingdom Hearts games are developed and published by Square Enix. Yes, they heavily feature Disney properties as levels, but those have been glorified background noise to the story in every game except the first one.

And besides, Sakurai considered bringing in James ****ing Bond at one point. I think putting in a video game character owned by a non-video game company is pretty damn tame by comparison.

Edit: Seeing that picture comparing Sora to Rex has gotten me thinking... Am I pointing out the obvious when I say that Rex looks like he was designed by Nomura?

he wasn't, but the members of Torna were!

 

[Lukingordex]

So, here's a new one i have read recently about crash:

"The trilogy games are mediocre and didn't do a thing for gaming as a whole, i don't understand how this character has so much recognition"

It hurts

 

[Crap-Zapper]

So, here's a new one i have read recently about crash:

"The trilogy games are mediocre and didn't do a thing for gaming as a whole, i don't understand how this character has so much recognition"

It hurts

Wow ... That one's just sad.
I would not call it critisism, but more bias and bull**** from that one individual, who sure as hell does not know **** about video game legcy/history.

 

[TappyBat]

were they not around for those commercials in the 90's? Looking back they were kinda funny. and the bandicoot was the ps1's unofficial mascot of sorts.

 

[Nintykid]

So, here's a new one i have read recently about crash:

"The trilogy games are mediocre and didn't do a thing for gaming as a whole, i don't understand how this character has so much recognition"

It hurts

This is BY FAR the worst of them I seen so far... did Matpat make this one?

 

[Nemuresu]

I got one:
"Heihachi can't join the roster because he'd play the same as Ryu".
Anyone who knows about Tekken and Street Fighter should know that both games play differently from each other, not to mention that both characters have co-existed before in the controversial Street Fighter x Tekken game, so moveset isn't a problem at all.

 

[Swaggy-G]

So, here's a new one i have read recently about crash:

"The trilogy games are mediocre and didn't do a thing for gaming as a whole, i don't understand how this character has so much recognition"

It hurts

I mean... people are allowed to not like a thing that you like.

 

[Lukingordex]

I mean... people are allowed to not like a thing that you like.

I'm just following the purpose of this thread, no need to lecture me.

 

[Erureido]

The two main criticisms against Professor Layton that put me on edge.

1) "Professor Layton has no moveset potential. He can't fight at all except when he has a sword."

Remember how often people used to argue against Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Duck Hunt dog being in Smash because they "don't have no moveset potential?" Look at how that turned out. Those characters show you that Sakurai can take characters that don't seem to have moveset potential and make them work.

Professor Layton is a much similar case. While he comes from a game that revolves around puzzles, I think he can be a fitting puzzle game rep by having a moveset that references the puzzles he solved and his intellect. Some of his moves could be a homage to the puzzles he solved like the moving block puzzles, the pouring-liquids-between-bottles puzzles, and I many more. He could also use the magnifying glass or have the exclamation mark from finding puzzles appear in some attacks. Better yet, some of his moves can also utilize the inventions he created throughout the series because of his intellect: his coin-slot machine gun, the stone catapult made from a wooden gate and a boat, the globe glider, and the fossil glider to name a few.

Layton can even use various archaeological tools to reference his archaeology background (since he is an archaeology professor in the games); he can use some of the Azran artifacts as weapons to reference that.

All that shows you how Professor Layton has more moveset potential than what first impressions say

2) "Professor Layton is a complete no-name for a third party. He's not iconic at all."

Okay, I'll admit that Professor Layton is nowhere near the likes of Megaman, Sonic, Pac-Man, Simon Belmont, and Cloud when it comes to fame, but to say that he isn't iconic at all is a bit too much. I'd argue Professor Layton does have some fame and credence to his name.

He's up there along the likes of Phoenix Wright for being one of the most recognizable visual-novel/puzzle-game icons in the past decade. Layton's games also proved to be one of the most iconic titles in the DS games because they aligned with the casual demographic Nintendo was going for when they focused on the Nintendo DS back then. Layton would even go on to have a feature-length movie of his own and, most recently, an anime, which shows the Layton series isn't as obscure as some think.

More importantly, the success of the Professor Layton games are what allowed Level 5 to reach the public eye in the gaming world, and the success of said series led them to publish more succesful titles like Yokai Watch and Inazuma Eleven. Heck, the Professor has made various cameos in future Level 5 games: he appeared on a billboard in LBX, there's a character in Yokai Watch that parodies him, and him, Luke, and Emmy even appeared as a team in an Inazuma Eleven. These cameos show that Level 5 is aware of the success the Layton series and what it meant for the company. Heck, Heck, Level 5's CEO, Akihiro Hino, even admitted the reason why he has the biggest soft spot for the Layton games out of all the Level 5 titles was because they were the first titles Level 5 published and paved the way for their success.

 

[Deleted member]

So, here's a new one i have read recently about crash:

"The trilogy games are mediocre and didn't do a thing for gaming as a whole, i don't understand how this character has so much recognition"

It hurts

I gotta say, this is probably the worst opinion I've ever seen. Can't make this stuff up LMAO

 

[warelander]

My most wanted newcomer would be a Wario character, especially Kat&Ana, Captain Syrup, Mona or 9-Volt and the biggest argument I hear against them would be:

''Wario is a minor franchise!''

To that I'll quote this bit from the Kat & Ana thread, since it adresses this point very directly:

I also want to add that Wario is more then big enough to warrant at least one more rep, after all, the series' legacy consists of:

-8 Platformers

-10 WarioWare titles

-DSi Ware standalone versions of Paperplane and Pyoro

-Wario Blast

-Mario & Wario and Wario's Woods, which are essentially Wario's equivalent of the Arcade DK era


Outside of it's own games it also has:

-The Mario spin offs, which feature a very constant string of Wario series content, including appearences and references to Wario series characters

-The Rhythm Heaves series, which has at least one WarioWare guest appearence each game and in the case of Megamix, two whole challenge sets featuring Ware's main cast.

-Picross NP Vol.7, which features a Wario Land 2 set of puzzles

-Starfy 3, which features Wario in a heavily Wario Land based guest role

-Wario's Woods is featured in NES Remix 2

-The Badge Arcade, which featured Ashley as one of it's mascots, as well as a WarioWare set and a WarioWare x Majora's Mask set

-And Smash itself, which treats Wario as it's own franchise and much like with Donkey Kong, references his relationship with the Mario series, without lumping them together, unlike Yoshi for instance.


There is also just how Wario's appearences outside of his home series are all heavily influenced by his own series.

His greed, strenght, love for garlic, association with bombs, the Shoulder Charge, his Plane, Bike and Car, his biker persona, Diamond City, Wario Man and even design tweaks like the short sleeves, are all elements that come from his own series, with his rivalry with Mario and his spin off partner Waluigi being the only Mario series elements that are really relevant to him these days.

Wario is a big series and I sincerely believe that the only reason people don't see it as more of a no-brainer for a new rep is that Wario fans online tend to be pretty quiet for the most part, but I think it's well overdue for more love in Smash and Kat & Ana, being the most recurring Wario characters period, would be a fantastic choice to fill that gap.

The Wario series may not be one of Nintendo's frontliners, but it still has a history, rich legacy and prominence in other Nintendo titles that most other Nintendo franchises would die to have.

 

[Meritocracy]

The biggest argument against my most wanted is a popularity in his own franchise thing, people argue he's not as popular as shadow or knuckles, (his only real competition) however, I feel they're equal in popularity, an Tails is the most important to the franchise, being "Player two" since the second game, much like Luigi

 

[UnknownM]

All of them. Including the wanted fighters for other people. Let people support and wish for characters without constant wars.

 

[FunAtParties]

For Starfy: "All he does is spin"

Sure, it's his main attack, but no one says all Mario does is jump on people's heads, or all Kirby does is suck. Starfy throughout his games utilizes plenty of vehicles, and transforms, you can create 2 or 3 full movesets for Starfy from stuff he does in his games alone, way more than most characters have. Tbh how is a character not having attacks still a criticism in Smash anyway? I mean, look at half the roster.

Anyway it wouldn't bother me that much if the people that said it just made the effort of checking out my damn thread and looking at the movesets lmao.

 

[verysleepywolf]

Most hated criticism: "relevance".

Skull Kid spiked in popularity after the leaks, yes.

Hardcore fans of Majora, myself included, raised awareness of the fact he was a missing AT. This rekindled some hope for anybody that actually wanted him, but wasn't anything strong as many ATs were and still are missing. The reveal of the Moon AT took it further. Now there are leaks about him and he's very much in the spotlight. This is exciting as **** for OG, Brawl era Skull Kid supporters like me.

Now that he's been talked about, Skull Kid appears to be one of those characters that people want both on a casual level and a deeper level coming from adoration of Majora's Mask. Basically, the leaks and evidence have revealed that relevance was his obstacle and nobody thought he had a chance, but otherwise liked him.

Now he has a chance, and he is generally pretty popular.

 

[Gothitelle]

Gothitelle (Who'da thunk it) gets criticised a lot (mostly after the "leak" on /v/) for being too obscure a Pokemon, which is ridiculously silly. Did everyone miss Wii Fit Trainer and Ice Climbers?

 

[Exalt4747]

Incineroar:

"We already have Charizard"

And....? There's Squirtle and Greninja.

(Also, I much, much, much prefer Incineroar to Charizard, and he has plenty of different moves. Additionally, Greninja did not bring dark moves to the table: Incineroar could do this fairly easily.)

"But only one of those is fully-evolved."

I really doubt that Sakurai would make or break a pick on that.

"Literally nobody/like three people like him."

Oh come on.

Bandana Dee has been covered, and anyone else I'd really want isn't likely enough for them to even be hit.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Not my most wanted, I don't even support him, though I have seen a very recurring criticism against Captain Toad:

HE CAN'T JUMP

So Luigi can't jump too, because in Luigi's Mansion, Luigi can't jump. Ok.
I guess... Olimar can't jump too? And Link in most of the games. Etc.

 

[Jigglymaster]

"The Sonic franchise can't have 3 characters! That's way too many for a 3rd party. They're supposed to be guests."

 

[AustarusIV]

Terra

• Bottom of the barrel pick!
  • The protagonist of the best-selling SNES RPG and most popular Final Fantasy character from the classic-era, whose game is considered a rival contender with FFVII for best title in the series and is one of the most beloved games from the 4th generation, and is one of the earliest female protagonists in an RPG is considered a bottom of the barrel pick now? Really?
• Final Fantasy doesn't deserve another character!
  • Uh huh, and who are you to determine that? I can't say that it would happen, but it's certainly big enough and popular enough to get an extra character considering that FF content is currently limited to just Cloud. So who's to say SE would like to see more representation for the franchise?
• She's not the main character!
  • The fact that promotional and crossover material has often used her as the face of FFVI, not to mention the fact that most of the game revolves around her, that her main theme is used as a motif throughout the whole game (including the Overworld for the first half), her very existence is a driving point between the relationship between humans and Espers, and that she shows up again near the end to help the party members regardless of whether or not she's been recruited, should be obvious enough that she is the main character.
• Kefka makes more sense/he's more popular!
  • Subjective opinion. While I like Kefka as a villain, it's important to note that he's actually not very popular in Japan because he's seen as an annoying idiot there for the most part, while Terra is popular in all the regions. Also, we have never gotten a main villain playable in Smash before the main protagonist, and it makes little sense for him to him to be chosen unless the story revolves specifically around him, which it doesn't.

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[Exalt4747]

Wait wait...Terra ISN'T the main character?

 

[AustarusIV]

Wait wait...Terra ISN'T the main character?

For a while, there was a controversy as who was considered the main protagonist of FFVI because of how there was much focus on all the playable characters of the game, not just for Terra. SE has said they tried to give as much focus to all the playable characters as they could, treating them all as 'main characters' in their own right, adding to this controversy, and it doesn't help that Celes more or less takes prominence in the second half of the game in the same manner that Terra had during the first half. However, Terra is nowadays universally considered the main character (or at least the face or de facto main character) of FFVI ever since Dissidia Final Fantasy cemented it.

 

[RidleyKraid187]

TOO BIG.



For my current most wanted, Shantae, it’s the “too sexy” argument, and the “well, Shovel Knight didn’t make it, and he’s the end-all be-all of indie characters”, as if Shantae isn’t able to stand on her own merits, merits that, in many cases, equal or surpasses what Shovel Knight had going for him.

 

[Lukingordex]

For Starfy: "All he does is spin"

I've heard this one more than once about Crash too lmao

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Bandana Dee: "Kirby already has 3 reps."
I only see this argument from FE fans that know that FE gets hated for "stealing" spots from more popular franchises, like Kirby. Bandana Dee is more deserving for smash than any FE character will ever be.

 

[Klimax]

"K Rool is ugly and irrelevant"
But he's in the game now.

 

[nuclearneo577]

Rayman being in Brawlhalla has no effect whatsoever on his possibly of being in this game, I don't even like him that much personally but it would make a lot of sense I know that a lot of people would be happy with it so I've been saying that I want to see him for a while.

Spyro shouldn't be written off as impossible just because Crash is more popular, they have a lot of fanbase overlap and Skylanders did have Bowser and Donkey Kong, so Crash getting in actually would boost his chances a lot. Assuming that they aren't added as DLC at the same time of course.

Master Chief getting in even as DLC is still a major stretch, but there is some logic behind thinking that it could happen for similar reasons to why and Sonic and Cloud got in, since all three of them are faces of game consoles that went up against Nintendo systems. People shouldn't write him off as being a different case as Sonic and Cloud because he's still selling Xbox games, cause Phil Spencer is a big fan of Nintendo and there is somewhat of a pattern here.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Isabelle:
1) "She's a pacifist."
She's an Animal Crossing character. What character from that series isn't a pacifist?

That's pretty ironic to include in a list of reasons NOT to include her, since She Was Recently Revealed to be in the game as a Playable Fighter; AND N-O-T as an Echo Fighter, but an ORIGINAL Character with her OWN Unique Moves that AREN'T just a Reskin of the Villager's Moves; i.e. the Villager never had a Fishing Pole Grab, OR a Gynoid Rocket Mine

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

I guess they just don't wish to beat up a dog!

...

I mean ... Waifu dog.

Yeah; because EVERYBODY HATED That Dog for mocking them every time they missed; and The Reasons they LOVED his inclusion is due to the fact that D*** Dog can get the Crud beat out of him for all those times he mocked the player; very Cathartic for those who have played Duck Hunt(Not the Debaucherous Horror Parody called Duck Season)

 

[FunAtParties]

I've heard this one more than once about Crash too lmao

I'll level with you, I'm sorta guilty of that. I said that when they were comparing him and Rayman, and many were saying Crash had more interesting attacks. My apologies

 

[ShadowTheHedgehogZ]

Shadow:
I'd rather have Tails/Tails is a better choice