What’s the silliest Smash argument you’ve heard? - Read OP

Wario Wario Wario

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"Muddy Mole has no unique gimmick to make him a viable retro rep"

He's a small mammal who can throw heavy objects in spite of his small size and dig through the ground like it's nothing, how do you not see the uniqueness there?
 
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"Bandana Dee is a hat goomba."

He is not, and for the same reason Captain Toad or the Blue and Yellow toads from nsmb aren't. The game designers want there to be a clear distinction between those characters and the rest of their species. The reason they haven't given them real names is probably because they want them to represent their species in the form of a character that still stays true to design. Bandana Waddle Dee represents the Waddle Dees, and Captain/Blue/Yellow Toad(s) represent the toads. In theory, if Ganondorf was named "Evil Gerudo Wizard" in his games, people might appreciate him as being the 'Gerudo rep" in Smash.
 

Haden

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You know I was making fun someone who was mocking Tumblr by calling his argument ridiculous. Right? My post didn't take a stand against Tumblr.
you do realize he was making fun of both tumblr and people who make fun of it right? he shared your stance and some to be contextually technical.


i swear this forums is populated by nonreaders
 

Gimj

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i'm not disagreeing with wanting waluigi in the game, i'm simply saying that his arguments for thinking he's going to be in the game are stupid as hell. if i were to say something similar about literally any other assist trophy, then i would be a laughing stock on the internet.

thank god sans isn't one. there's still hope guys.

also, yes, the purple text is the ridiculous argument i was posting about. i was going to say that the formatting correlates with a post i made on this same thread, but i guess there's no point anymore.
I get it, but saying Waluigi can't/won't be in is also laughable. To say either with any degree of certainty is unwise. It's quite possible that Nintendo decides to add(make playable) Waluigi due to the immense outpouring. It makes sense from a marketing and business standpoint. Anyone arguing Waluigi is a shoe-in or WILL be in is wrong. But talking as if Waluigi doesn't have a chance is unfair, when he is literally the one sole character being highly demanded by the masses to the point where Nintendo themselves were compelled to acknowledge it.
 
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Perkilator

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For the record guys, I don't for a second believe the vid. I just like the thought of a Porky trailer involving Giygas and hadn't seen it linked on the thread :4ness:.



The blurryness and the fact it is a fully animated trailer for a DLC character make this obviously fake.
This arguement's reasonable, but not exactly one I absolutely agree with, in all regards.
 
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REZERO

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I was told that Smash Melee and Smash Ultimate aren't competitive games and that they are party games for families & friends. Except that theres a huge following in the competitive scene and it actually is complicated when you factor in all the playable characters.
 
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Probably anyone who says "[INSERT CHARACTER HERE] is a lock because [INSERT LEAKER HERE] said so!" regarding DLC. If something leaked half a year before actually being announced, unless that is leak bait, someone somewhere ****ed up pretty badly. Then again, I think I only started holding this position after reading about how Square Enix deals with stuff related to leaks (they tend to pretty actively fight them IIRC).
 

Prison

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Well it's kinda his main mechanic to unlock his ability. That or getting hit like Lucario.
Does it not build up over time? I think it's fine he has a counter, but if he gets to unlock god mode that lasts for what feels like 30 seconds, after countering 2 aerials, that's a little busted. Joker is a good character, Given his movement speed, recovery distance, power, the risk to reward and ko potential Arsene is busted beyond belief.
 
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The Grinch leak.
Most arguments defending the Grinch leak sounded very silly to me, especially the ones related to the Grinch renders and the green pixel that was supposed to be proof of Isaac or something.
Most people defending any sort of leak sound very silly no matter who its from. Unless you personally datamined the game, found proof of DLC, and others are capable of doing the same, then there is no reason for anyone to post as a "leaker".
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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"X" character should have priority due to the fanbase wanting them for the longest time.
I remember that after Smash 4's roster was solidified, someone went to the Dark Pit boards expressing his outrage and claiming that for the next Smash, Sakurai and Nintendo needed to prioritize another DK rep above anyone else. It's cute seeing how people with the emotional maturity of a toddler think that the world revolves around them and that they get to call the shots on a game they don't have a hand in making.
 
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The "There are no major Nintendo characters left to be added to Smash!" argument is plenty silly to me. Just because you don't think that there aren't any doesn't mean that there actually aren't. Very few people have a proper overview of all of Nintendo's series and characters.
 

Sans3546

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"Ultimate's online is anything better than an abomination."

seriously, i'm like twenty more unwanted free for alls away from selling my cartridge and getting melee, and i will make sure they take place across three to five major updates before giving up for good.
 
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PeridotGX

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"Just make Paper Mario a Mr. Game & Watch clone, it's easy!"

Heard from both people who don't have an attachment to the Paper Mario games and from people who are incredibly sad and desperate Paper Mario fans who want to bargain in an extreme way.
remember that time in Paper Mario where Mario threw fish and was a judge?

good times
 

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"Just make Paper Mario a Mr. Game & Watch clone, it's easy!"

Heard from both people who don't have an attachment to the Paper Mario games and from people who are incredibly sad and desperate Paper Mario fans who want to bargain in an extreme way.
Speaking of that, I once saw an argument that Paper Mario could have regular Mario's moveset. That was one of the dumbest things I've ever read considering how Paper Mario and regular Mario are animated and the fact that Paper Mario has no legs means little to no kicks.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Speaking of that, I once saw an argument that Paper Mario could have regular Mario's moveset. That was one of the dumbest things I've ever read considering how Paper Mario and regular Mario are animated and the fact that Paper Mario has no legs means little to no kicks.
The only way I can see that working is on the grounds of what Sakurai did to Dark Samus. All that wasted potential...
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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"Ultimate's online is anything better than an abomination."

seriously, i'm like twenty more unwanted free for alls away from selling my cartridge and getting melee, and i will make sure they take place across three to five major updates before giving up for good.
If you think that someone is being silly for not exaggerating the online's problems, then there is something wrong with you.

The problems are there, but you are being irrational for thinking that it's impossible for other people to find the online serviceable.

Your issue even sounds greatly exaggerated and improbable. I played online all week and I've got all my matches in my battlefield ruleset except for a couple that were on omega, which didn't bother me. No unwanted free for alls. Then again, this is just my anecdotal evidence. Maybe some people just have it worse constantly, every day of their lives, so what do I know? But I can't help to feel that you are greatly exacerbating yours to make the issue seem worse than it is. 20 unwanted free for alls? In what time interval? Consecutively? Often during one play session or across different ones?

And what does abomination mean to you anyways? It's a word reserved for extreme cases. Makes me think you haven't lived long enough to see or experience truly nasty stuff.
Then again, the smash fanbase isn't exactly notorious for their ability to cope and everything has to be considered an extreme without any grey areas.
 
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Sans3546

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If you think that someone is being silly for not exaggerating the online's problems, then there is something wrong with you.

The problems are there, but you are being irrational for thinking that it's impossible for other people to find the online serviceable.

Your issue even sounds greatly exaggerated and improbable. I played online all week and I've got all my matches in my battlefield ruleset except for a couple that were on omega, which didn't bother me. No unwanted free for alls. Then again, this is just my anecdotal evidence. Maybe some people just have it worse constantly, every day of their lives, so what do I know? But I can't help to feel that you are greatly exacerbating yours to make the issue seem worse than it is. 20 unwanted free for alls? In what time interval? Consecutively? Often during one play session or across different ones?

And what does abomination mean to you anyways? It's a word reserved for extreme cases. Makes me think you haven't lived long enough to see or experience truly nasty stuff.
Then again, the smash fanbase isn't exactly notorious for their ability to cope and everything has to be considered an extreme without any grey areas.
i mean it's probably serviceable for those who enjoy free for all casual matches, but it seems any hope of me finding others for competitive play got shafted this game for reasons i will never understand. also, when i said 20 unwanted free for alls, that wasn't a statistic or anything. that was me trying to make a point that i am so fed up with ultimate's online that i am about to quit the game all together and dive into the other big smash community with lots of persistent followers (melee). also, there's absolutely no exacerbating going on. everything i have said is the experience i have had with this game up to this point in time. back in 1.2.0, i recorded 100 consecutive games, and 74 of them were free for alls with an additional 15 1v1 matches using anticompetitive rulesets (timed battles, random stages with hazards, and/or items).

i don't know what causes the problem or whether others are having it. what i do know is my personal experience with ultimate's online has been complete sh*t, and no update to date has changed the fact that i keep getting that casual free for all garbage when i clearly stated in my preferred rules that i want fair competitive 1v1 matches. arenas aren't giving me any of that either. 90% of arena battle matches i participate in where someone doesn't self destruct by accident end with one party three stocking the other. there is a clear skill gap in any arena i visit which isn't beneficial for anyone involved.

this is simply me stating my experience, because i know how sh*t it is on my end. i don't have any friends willing to play ultimate (my region in real life is mostly a melee region), so i am unable to vouch for them or use data from their accounts.
 

RileyXY1

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"Heihachi shouldn't be in because we already have Ryu!" Well, we can two fighting game reps and Heihachi will not play like Ryu at all because Street Fighter and Tekken have completely different game mechanics. Although I don't support Heihachi, I hate it when people assume that Heihachi and Ryu will play exactly the same because it shows that these people are completely ignorant of the Tekken franchise.
 
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"Bandana Dee is a generic member of its species and shouldn't be in!"

OK, let's just remove :ultinkling::ultinklingboy::ultyoshi::ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultpichu::ultmewtwo::ultlucario::ultsquirtle::ultivysaur::ultcharizard::ultgreninja::ultincineroar::ultvillager::ultwiifittrainer::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter::ultrob: for all being unnamed members of their species.
I don't want to ridicule your argument - and honestly, it really isn't ridicilous, I agree with it as a matter of fact - but there's just something incredibly funny about the thought of "Wii Fit Trainer" being also the name of the character's species.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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Besides, Pokemon Trainer is not a real name either. It should be among the guys like Villager, etc. Just basically a playable class instead of a specific person. Even some of the Pokemon are far more directly based upon a specific member instead of as generic. Villager and Pokemon Trainer are the most generic we have. Not that that's a bad thing. They're there to represent the gameplay of the series, not to have a canon personality or anything.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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i mean it's probably serviceable for those who enjoy free for all casual matches, but it seems any hope of me finding others for competitive play got shafted this game for reasons i will never understand. also, when i said 20 unwanted free for alls, that wasn't a statistic or anything. that was me trying to make a point that i am so fed up with ultimate's online that i am about to quit the game all together and dive into the other big smash community with lots of persistent followers (melee). also, there's absolutely no exacerbating going on. everything i have said is the experience i have had with this game up to this point in time. back in 1.2.0, i recorded 100 consecutive games, and 74 of them were free for alls with an additional 15 1v1 matches using anticompetitive rulesets (timed battles, random stages with hazards, and/or items).

i don't know what causes the problem or whether others are having it. what i do know is my personal experience with ultimate's online has been complete sh*t, and no update to date has changed the fact that i keep getting that casual free for all garbage when i clearly stated in my preferred rules that i want fair competitive 1v1 matches. arenas aren't giving me any of that either. 90% of arena battle matches i participate in where someone doesn't self destruct by accident end with one party three stocking the other. there is a clear skill gap in any arena i visit which isn't beneficial for anyone involved.

this is simply me stating my experience, because i know how sh*t it is on my end. i don't have any friends willing to play ultimate (my region in real life is mostly a melee region), so i am unable to vouch for them or use data from their accounts.
What you are telling me is your own experience, your own anecdotal evidence. And we humans also have a tendency for making exaggerated assertions, we do it to make a point but in several cases they may not be completely accurate. People do that all the time. And I can't help but see those patterns in your post.
I mentioned before that I've managed to get mostly 1v1 matches with competitive rulesets in quickplay, which is why I called it serviceable (then again, my own anecdotal evidence).

When you say recorded, do you mean that you saved your replays for each of those 100 matches or did you use a recording device? And the great majority were free for alls and anti competitive rulesets? A lot of that seems hard to believe. Was that on an earlier build of the game? How about if you were to do it now in the wake of patch 3.1.0?
Do you stream your matches? Because I'm interested to see what is happening from your end.
 

Mogisthelioma

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"The online isn't that bad, at least it works."

-Peer to peer connection is strictly worse than server run, which is what every other developer uses
-The removal of local co-op with friends online is a downgrade from Smash 4
-A defunct ranking system that fails to accurately track one's placement in the community
-Only arenas have guaranteed rulesets, another downgrade from Smash 4
-GSP is tracked per fighter and not by the player which makes everything all the more tedious
-Arenas can be easily rigged, trolled, or shut down by the host
-Amiibo battles are boring and pointless
-Still no in game voice chat

If Smash 4 had **** online, then Ultimate's online is just a blank, emotionless void.
 
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"The online isn't that bad, at least it works."

-Peer to peer connection is strictly worse than server run, which is what every other developer uses
-The removal of local co-op with friends online is a downgrade from Smash 4
-A defunct ranking system that fails to accurately track one's placement in the community
-Only arenas have guaranteed rulesets, another downgrade from Smash 4
-GSP is tracked per fighter and not by the player which makes everything all the more tedious
-Arenas can be easily rigged, trolled, or shut down by the host
-Amiibo battles are boring and pointless
-Still no in game voice chat

If Smash 4 had **** online, then Ultimate's online is just a blank, emotionless void.
Arenas, by default, make Ultimate better than 4. The issues with arenas you listed are more unlikely to happen than they are likely to happen. Plus, just make your own room if it’s really that much of a problem for you. Also, there are discords you can join to get matches going almost any time. In 4, unless you had friends ready to go right then and there, it was either a stupid item fest or FD snoozefest.

Also, you have voice via the phone app. And you can talk to randoms in arenas if it is enabled for the room. Couldn’t do that in 4.

"Bandana Dee is a generic member of its species and shouldn't be in!"
The real issue is that Bandana Dee is just generic. Unless you have some epic moveset he can do that I am unaware of, I can’t see how he’d be a fun character to play.
 
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Mogisthelioma

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Arenas, by default, make Ultimate better than 4. The issues with arenas you listed are more unlikely to happen than they are likely to happen. Plus, just make your own room if it’s really that much of a problem for you. Also, there are discords you can join to get matches going almost any time. In 4, unless you had friends ready to go right then and there, it was either a stupid item fest or FD snoozefest.

Also, you have voice via the phone app. And you can talk to randoms in arenas if it is enabled for the room. Couldn’t do that in 4.
The fact that those issues are possible to begin with in the first place is my problem. It royally sucks to finally play in an arena only for the owner to get salty and shut it down. The only troll/shutdown free guaranteed arena is your own.

And you don't have to use a phone app to VC on PS, Xbox, or PC. It's already in the game. A phone app makes things more complicated than they should be.

As for BWD, head over to his support thread. People suggest loads of different movesets for him from being a zoner to a brawler. And besides, there are already plenty of fighters with generic movesets in this game, so the bigger question is how can we improve on them?

Edit: Fixed typos
 
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And you don't have to use a phone app to VC on PS, Xbox, or PC. It's already in the game. A phone app makes things more complicated than they should be.
I don’t see much of a difference in effort between:
A. grabbing your headset, plugging it in/turning it on, then creating a party
and
B. pulling out your phone, turning on the Switch app, and starting a chat for your BA
It would be nice for it to be system-level, but the effort is not really more or less than other chat systems.
 

Mogisthelioma

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I don’t see much of a difference in effort between:
A. grabbing your headset, plugging it in/turning it on, then creating a party
and
B. pulling out your phone, turning on the Switch app, and starting a chat for your BA
It would be nice for it to be system-level, but the effort is not really more or less than other chat systems.
I'm not saying it's not simple, I'm saying it's even simpler if Nintendo pulled their stuff together and gave in-game VC a try. It's 2019 and they still have barely any idea how the internet works.
 
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MacSmitty

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I'm not sure if this counts but... "The Smash community is the saltiest competitive communities ever"- Says the general comments thread of a channel that has a compilation of salt videos from many games, Smash included.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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The fact that those issues are possible to begin with in the first place is my problem. It royally sucks to finally play in an arena only for the owner to get salty and shut it down. The only troll/shutdown free guaranteed arena is your own.

And you don't have to use a phone app to VC on PS, Xbox, or PC. It's already in the game. A phone app makes things more complicated than they should be.

As for BWD, head over to his support thread. People suggest loads of different movesets for him from being a zoner to a brawler. And besides, there are already plenty of fighters with generic movesets in this game, so the bigger question is how can we improve on them?

Edit: Fixed typos
Some of the issues you listed are not a problem of the game's online itself though, like people trolling arenas or the amiibo battles.
Amiibo battles are the same side feature that was introduced in Smash 4, at worst they are just there and will see little use but they don't harm the online experience at all, so it's silly to use it as a point when attempting to convince people of the online being worse than Smash 4's.

And as the other user mentioned, the fact that you can create personalized arenas are already step up from Smash 4's online. People going into arenas to grief players is not something you can fault on the game or the devs. In online games, there will always be ******** who go out of their way to ruin other people's fun.
In Smash 4's online for instance, I barely touched Free for all For Fun because it was mostly filled with taunt parties, but I knew the mode wasn't the problem, the problem were the bunch of dickbags who bought a $60 game so they could go online and not play it.
 

NuzTheMonkey

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"Incineroar is so OP! He can absorb all attacks with Down B and goes through shields with Side B, he hits so hard too! Stop playing him!"

I swear these arguments remind me of the newbies in TF2 all screaming about how Pyro is OP and needs to be nerfed (Pyro is arguably the worst class).
 
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"Incineroar is so OP! He can absorb all attacks with Down B and goes through shields with Side B, he hits so hard too! Stop playing him!"

I swear these arguments remind me of the newbies in TF2 all screaming about how Pyro is OP and needs to be nerfed (Pyro is arguably the worst class).
Or the Hog Rider from Clash Royale, or Swords from Brawlhalla. Every game has an aspect noobs call unfair.
 
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"Kirby and Meta Knight have more jumps than Ridley or Charizard, therefore Sakurai is biased towards Kirby!"

....Or he's biased toward Pokemon for giving Jigglypuff 5 double jumps as well as the second fastest airspeed in the game.
If Sakurai was truly biased toward the Kirby franchise :ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultmetaknight: would have infinite jumps like they do in their games. The Pits not having as many double jumps reflects how they basically can't fly on their own (but having three double jumps is still awesome). Charizard and Ridley are canonically very heavy, so like bees, it wouldn't be realistic for wings any size to be able to carry them far distances.

"The Banjo-Kazooie trailer was effortless for recycling King K. Rool's Trailer!"

Literally the reason why they made it like his reveal was to capitalize on the fact that both King K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie (as well as Diddy Kong) were designed by Rare (hence "Raring to Go") and acts as a "welcome home!" trailer if anything.
 
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