What’s the silliest Smash argument you’ve heard? - Read OP

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#1
We all know the Smash fan base tends to have ridiculous arguments. But what is the most ridiculous argument you’ve ever heard?

For me, “There’s too many sword characters in Smash! Therefore, we must exclude any any all future Smash newcomers that wield a sword from from future Smash’s games!”
“All of them?”
“All of them!”
“Even Isaac?”
“...”


Mod Edit: Please remember to keep complaints within the realm of Smash Bros. and to avoid using personal language. Speculation is, at best, educated guessing after all.

:ultpiranha:
 
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Mrplutoguy112

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#3
My personal favorite argument would have to be that fans of Melee don't think the other games arent as fun or fastpast and always hope that one day Melee will happen again.

But the argument is ridiculous because people need to understand that if they want melee just go play it Its not that hard! Also Melee will never happen again.
XD
 

Frizz

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#4
I might be a little biased, but...

The "Too many Fire Emblem characters/reps" argument doesn't really hold up all that well. Super Smash Bros. is a game about Nintendo's All-Stars (and then some). If more people happen to like Fire Emblem's characters more than they do with say, the Donkey Kong or Kirby series, then it's only natural that there would be more FE characters than the recently mentioned.

Same goes for the "Too many swordfighters" argument. There's no such thing as "representatives" in the Super Smash Bros. series, so there's really no need to include a random no-name lance user for the sake of variety. Relevance is important, as is popularity.
 

The DanMan051

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#5
I could rag on the Geno overhyping or asinine "too many swords" argument, but I once saw someone spinoff from the latter into there being "too many human characters".

...Of course, the originator of that string of debates was arguing whether or not Persona had a shot at getting into Smash (it's Sega's biggest international franchise aside from Sonic and has been around for two decades, while also covering the entirety of SMT for "legacy" if you must).
 
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#6
"As a Metroid fan, I'm outraged about them reducing the size of Samus' breasts"

I could rag on the Geno overhyping or asinine "too many swords" argument, but I once saw someone spinoff from the latter into there being "too many human characters".

...Of course, the originator of that string of debates was arguing whether or not Persona had a shot at getting into Smash (it's Sega's biggest international franchise aside from Sonic and has been around for two decades, while also covering the entirety of SMT for "legacy" if you must).
oh hai
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
#7
I could rag on the Geno overhyping or asinine "too many swords" argument, but I once saw someone spinoff from the latter into there being "too many human characters".

...Of course, the originator of that string of debates was arguing whether or not Persona had a shot at getting into Smash (it's Sega's biggest international franchise aside from Sonic and has been around for two decades, while also covering the entirety of SMT for "legacy" if you must).
While I agree Persona could have a shot, if it gets in Smash off of the backs of all of the SMT games that are on Nintendo consoles, I’m going to be pretty pissed off to be honest.
 
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#8
"As a Metroid fan, I'm outraged about them reducing the size of Samus' breasts"
But seriously though this has had me scratching my head for months. You can't even see Samus' body through normal gameplay in Metroid. Yeah she shows up as a 2D image in the Mission Complete sequences, and Zero Suit is playable for a brief period in the Metroid 1 remake and Other M, but is her breast size really one of her crucial character traits? I could sooner relate to fans that are upset about her hair color changing between blonde, brunette, and green.

Don't tell these "Metroid fans", but Samus no longer has her Super Metroid design and instead has looked closest to her Other M design since Smash 4. "As a Metroid fan..." Ugh, give me a break. Complain about something that matters, like her suits. I don't like how her alt colors are just recolors of the varia suit and there's no proper Fusion Suit, or some of the weirder designs throughout the series.

While I agree Persona could have a shot, if it gets in Smash off of the backs of all of the SMT games that are on Nintendo consoles, I’m going to be pretty pissed off to be honest.
Yeah my personal SMT pick is Jack Frost. He's weird, he's cute, he could use unique powers. And if you gotta have a Persona 5 character because it's so recent and popular, then pick Morgana. Hard to get a cooler character than Morgana. But I guess it's taboo to pick a mascot character for a mascot fighter over another human. Yeesh.
 
D

Deleted member

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#9
But seriously though this has had me scratching my head for months. You can't even see Samus' body through normal gameplay in Metroid. Yeah she shows up as a 2D image in the Mission Complete sequences, and Zero Suit is playable for a brief period in the Metroid 1 remake and Other M, but is her breast size really one of her crucial character traits? I could sooner relate to fans that are upset about her hair color changing between blonde, brunette, and green.

Don't tell these "Metroid fans", but Samus no longer has her Super Metroid design and instead has looked closest to her Other M design since Smash 4. "As a Metroid fan..." Ugh, give me a break. Complain about something that matters, like her suits. I don't like how her alt colors are just recolors of the varia suit and there's no proper Fusion Suit, or some of the weirder designs throughout the series.


Yeah my personal SMT pick is Jack Frost. He's weird, he's cute, he could use unique powers. And if you gotta have a Persona 5 character because it's so recent and popular, then pick Morgana. Hard to get a cooler character than Morgana. But I guess it's taboo to pick a mascot character for a mascot fighter over another human. Yeesh.
Oh I don’t mind Jack Frost support. I’m just saying that if Persona gets in Smash using SMT’s history on Nintendo consoles I’m going be mad as all hell is all I’m saying.
 

ItsMeBrandon

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#11
I've seen people claim that "Brawl is an objectively bad game," or otherwise pretend it's not a real Smash game.

It's the classic "my opinion is fact" that I enjoy seeing people fruitlessly try to push onto others.
Even so, I personally think Brawl is still far more fun than Melee. Competitively, no, but then this argument makes no distinction between casual and competitive play, and I don't play either game competitively.

Really, any argument that says that Melee is objectively the best game and that the next game needs to be Melee 2.0 makes me cringe more than anything. If Melee players are fine with going back to the GameCube to play their favorite Smash game, we don't really need a new version of that, and I think every Smash game is best having its own identity anyway.
 

Drakonix

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#12
Mewtwo and Roy being replaced by Lucario and Ike as “flavor of the month”

My god, I had to go into LENGTHY arguments to get people to stop having this mindset lmao
I am sorta sad to admit that I had that mentality at one point.
I liked Ike however, but didn't care much about Lucario. (Also Toon Link instead of Young Link. YL was one of my favs in Melee). I have definitely put that mentality in the past though! :)
 
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#14
Any theories that might end up with not so desirable results are bad and dumb and baseless and the people who believe them are stupid people who hate smash and actively want there to be less characters so they can brag about being right. But theories that imply 10+ unrevealed characters are good, and logical, and based on facts and hard data, and the people who believe them are mature big brained individuals.
 

The DanMan051

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#15
"Ridley is too small."

I was speechless; I've never seen that sentence before.
To be fair, it's completely consistent with those who do think Ridley would be too big-- I'd agree that having him shrunk down and hunched over is kinda awkward looking. But for people who actually wanted him... yeah, it seems dumb to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Oh I don’t mind Jack Frost support. I’m just saying that if Persona gets in Smash using SMT’s history on Nintendo consoles I’m going be mad as all hell is all I’m saying.
It doesn't even "need" that-- Q was released in 2015 on 3DS and Q2 is on the way. Also, it happens to be Sega's second biggest global franchise aside from Sonic at this point (Sega's owned Atlus for a few years). If we get a unique Sega newcomer and it isn't a Sonic character, it'll be a Persona protagonist (of note is that Sakurai himself is a fan of the series). But overall SMT legacy I guess fits the same bill that people who are still insecure about Cloud have used FF's legacy to try and sate themselves.
 
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Mogisthelioma

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#16
"Kirby can't get a newcomer! Then that would be SAKURAI BIAS!"
"Kirby's first party, let's focus on other series instead!"
"Why would we need another Kirby fighter? it's popular enough, let's make less popular series better by proliferating their representation!"
"Let's have as many third parties as possible! **** the idea of 'Nintendo only!'"
"(Insert classic but bat game here) should be represented/represented more because it's iconic and nostalgic!"
"Bandana Waddle Dee is 'Hat Goomba,' he's not interesting enough to be relevant."
"The Legend of Zelda doesn't deserve another fighter."
"Sonic deserves another fighter!"
"Fire Emblem deserves another fighter!"
"You can't overrepresent a popular series!"
 

Zachmac

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#19
I got in a lot of silly arguments during Smash 4 speculation.
"Roy can't be in as DLC, we already have another character named Roy(:4roy:), it'd be too confusing!"

"Palutena would be overpowered, she's a goddess!" was common, but there was one guy who I constantly got into arguments with who insisted that "Palutena can't fight, that's what she has Pit for!", which even if that was true (it obviously isn't) it would still be a dumb argument.

But the dumbest one that I saw then and that I still keep seeing today has to be "X character just doesn't 'fit' in Smash, they'd stick out too much and wouldn't make sense". Smash Brothers isn't supposed to make sense and characters aren't supposed to look like they "fit in". That's why we can have a free-for-all match between Mr.Game&Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, Olimar and Bayonetta on Pac-land.
 
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#20
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Uffe

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#21
I believe the argument of too many sword characters comes from the fact that we've got 7 Fire Emblem characters who wield swords. I don't think people would complain so much about them if they actually had something other than a sword, even though they'd probably fall into that category if they had spears, staves, or lances. I'm still trying to see why Geno is relevant rather than people wanting him simply because nostalgic reasons.
 

Tollhouse

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#22
You guys nailed all but one of the arguments I had in mind.

No one has mentioned the moronic argument that Ultimate is a port of smash 4. I have a friend who was talking to me about this and it's baffling to me when he says that Ultimate's roster amount isn't impressive because Sakurai just ported over all the characters from past games. Much like what Bandai does with a lot of their DBZ and Naruto games. It just makes me cringe how ignorant people can be and it's a real insult to all the work Sakurai's team has put into this. How could you have watched the first Ultimate presentation and still think it's a port?
 

Manonymous

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#24
I've seen people claim that "Brawl is an objectively bad game," or otherwise pretend it's not a real Smash game.

It's the classic "my opinion is fact" that I enjoy seeing people fruitlessly try to push onto others.
Even so, I personally think Brawl is still far more fun than Melee. Competitively, no, but then this argument makes no distinction between casual and competitive play, and I don't play either game competitively.

Really, any argument that says that Melee is objectively the best game and that the next game needs to be Melee 2.0 makes me cringe more than anything. If Melee players are fine with going back to the GameCube to play their favorite Smash game, we don't really need a new version of that, and I think every Smash game is best having its own identity anyway.
I totally agree with you on that ! Melee hardcore fans are such a pain in the *** ! If they love it, it's fine ! But don't let your notsalgia alters your judgement. Melee is not the best Smash and it's content is not the most well-developed. Hell, there are so many bugs in Melee, more than in Brawl and Sm4sh.
 

The DanMan051

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#28
You guys nailed all but one of the arguments I had in mind.

No one has mentioned the moronic argument that Ultimate is a port of smash 4. I have a friend who was talking to me about this and it's baffling to me when he says that Ultimate's roster amount isn't impressive because Sakurai just ported over all the characters from past games. Much like what Bandai does with a lot of their DBZ and Naruto games. It just makes me cringe how ignorant people can be and it's a real insult to all the work Sakurai's team has put into this. How could you have watched the first Ultimate presentation and still think it's a port?
To be fair, it does kinda feel like Smash 4.5-- especially with the lacking amount of actually new content. I'd say it's similar to Monster Hunter Generations: clearly based in 4/4U's engine but instead focused on experimenting with the gameplay and bringing a bunch of older monsters and areas back. There's clear visual similarities and stuff with a far easier transition between 4/4U and it, but it still has enough different that you can't knock it as "not a new game". It's a celebration title before a series reboot. Of course, I can only hope Smash ends up better off than how **** MHW ended up (probably the only case where Capcom carves out the soul of a franchise to try and grow it in the West and it actually works).
 

JoyStar

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#30
"Shantae is the most definitive indie game character of all time" (paraphrasing from the RTC thread a while back).

I mean I love the Shantae games but completely ignoring every other indie title out there is just ridiculous.
Agreed. Heck I never even heard of her until a week or two ago.
 

Q-Long

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#32
everyone here is listing common generic stuff like "goku should be in" or "popular characters only" or "he can't fight" or whatever

but i saw someone say because people supported lesser known characters, they were jobless because they didnt know how money works because popular characters would give nintendo more money.

i couldnt even tell if it was trolling or not, contextually it didnt seem like trolling, but i couldnt even be mad it was so over the top and ridiculous i just started watching netflix

(which is good for you, dont get rapped into arguments that are pointless, there is really no impact you have aside from directly supporting a character)

"Shantae is more influential to gaming than Castlevania"
holy **** what the ****

shantae literally uses castlevania and metroid has influences to its gameplay and i like shantae too....
My favorite on the forum recently has been that Geno is more of a gaming icon than Lara Croft.

I swear I've seen like five separate people try to argue that.
that's pretty crazy. i love geno too. they should maybe try "he is more of a nintendo icon"
 

Putuk

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#33
"Charizard was better as a solo fighter"

Bruv if I could punch someone through the internet...
Can you imagine that there are people,

RIGHT NOW,

IN THIS VERY THREAD,

ON THIS VERY FORUM,

THAT DON'T THINK THAT IVYSAUR IS THE BEST ADDITION TO THE ROSTER
 

Oddball

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#34
that's pretty crazy. i love geno too. they should maybe try "he is more of a nintendo icon"
Anyone trying to say that Geno is any kind of icon, relevant, or important are wrong. It's fine that you like the guy or that you support him being in the game, but in the big scheme of things, the guy isn't anymore important than Koops, Gombella, or any other number of one-shot Mario characters.
 

Manonymous

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#35
Anyone trying to say that Geno is any kind of icon, relevant, or important are wrong. It's fine that you like the guy or that you support him being in the game, but in the big scheme of things, the guy isn't anymore important than Koops, Gombella, or any other number of one-shot Mario characters.
Exactly ! Hell, is less important than LUBBA ! And he's as important as Stanley, so why him and not the others ?
 

Tollhouse

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#37
To be fair, it does kinda feel like Smash 4.5-- especially with the lacking amount of actually new content. I'd say it's similar to Monster Hunter Generations: clearly based in 4/4U's engine but instead focused on experimenting with the gameplay and bringing a bunch of older monsters and areas back. There's clear visual similarities and stuff with a far easier transition between 4/4U and it, but it still has enough different that you can't knock it as "not a new game". It's a celebration title before a series reboot. Of course, I can only hope Smash ends up better off than how **** MHW ended up (probably the only case where Capcom carves out the soul of a franchise to try and grow it in the West and it actually works).
You've played Ultimate? But the gameplay experience is completely different based on footage and word from the people who've played it. I mean pros like Zero who've played smash 4 for hours everyday have said the game feels different than smash 4. And you're saying Ultimate lacks new content when Sakurai hasn't even finished talking about what else the game has to offer. We still have more characters, stages, and that hidden mode that we have no information on. Every returning character has been altered and every stage from past games has been changed to suit the new gamplay or it's undergone enhancements in aesthetic. All of these things say that this is a new game. Just because assets have been reused doesn't discredit the game from being new. What's important is the end result. The final product.
 

Kevandre

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#38
Can you imagine that there are people,

RIGHT NOW,

IN THIS VERY THREAD,

ON THIS VERY FORUM,

THAT DON'T THINK THAT IVYSAUR IS THE BEST ADDITION TO THE ROSTER
There's just no accounting for taste sometimes fam
 

Zachmac

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#39
"Charizard was better as a solo fighter"

Bruv if I could punch someone through the internet...
Can you imagine that there are people,

RIGHT NOW,

IN THIS VERY THREAD,

ON THIS VERY FORUM,

THAT DON'T THINK THAT IVYSAUR IS THE BEST ADDITION TO THE ROSTER
Okay but seriously though, Charizard kind of sucks on his own. He's mediocre at best and a wannabe Bowser at worst. He's also the sort of character who makes having a secondary mandatory if you want to use him competitively, so having two of them naturally built into his moveset is probably the biggest buff he could have received going into Ultimate.
 
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Diem

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#40
"SSE is confirmed for Ultimate because look at the game's file size!"

Despite the file size being about 16 GB, which is barely larger than Smash Wii U. Once that's brought up, they move the goalposts:

"But the compression! It's just that small because they've gotten better at compression, so the game is actually way bigger than that!"

Okay, so now the file size isn't truly indicative of anything? It's true that Nintendo's compression is top-notch (Sakurai said that despite having way more music than the Wii U game, all the music in Ultimate only takes up a quarter the size it did in the Wii U game), but there's also way more characters and stages in Ultimate than in the Wii U game, all using higher-quality assets. In that case, I'd imagine that the storage size would probably balance out. Still, the argument begins with pointing to the file size as being confirmation of SSE, but once it's pointed out that the file size is about the same as Smash Wii U, the goalposts move to "muh compression," showing that the file size doesn't tell us anything at all.

There's a separate argument, though, that's less crazy but still stupid.

"But look at the trailers! They're so cinematic, it has to mean that we're getting SSE!"

Smash 4 had the same kind of trailers, though. That's where their cinematic budget went instead of going into SSE. If anything, the trailers are evidence against SSE, because why put the time and money into such flashy trailers when you could save those resources for the game itself?

I've seen these arguments come up multiple times and believed by large groups of people. I would love to see a sequel to SSE with all these amazing characters, but the way people say it's confirmed based on really stupid evidence drives me nuts. They're just getting their hopes up for something that's almost assuredly not going to happen for a number of reasons.
 
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