Wavedashing in Brawl... (Hacked version)

[Heavyarms2050]

wavedashing suck lol. JK, Seriously though, wavedashing is not need in brawl, (yoshi is going to suck again if implemented), the only thing that would improve brawl is hitstun and l-canceling.

 

[What?]

So I don't need to actually own Twilight.

I just need the specific save file.

Mwarrr! Why can't somebody just do it for me!

Shist. I'll figure it out f'reals, y'all.

 

[Makkun]

You need a real copy of Twilight for about 30 seconds, no joke. This is so you can load the save file and talk to a guy in the game, then a data dump (or something) occurs and the Wii boots to a menu that installs the Homebrew Channel.


Also, I'm uploading a video of Sonic on Battlefield right now.

 

[mentosman8]

Wow, awesome job! The one thing I don't like that I've found is that when you waveland on platforms, your momentum fully stops when you hit the end of the platform. But, its an awesome code and definitely makes the game feel faster, I like it.

 

[Cerozero]

I don't think a lot of people here are understanding the real balance implications of this. Wavedashing isn't even important compared to the new airdodging mechanic.

Mmac raised an excellent point with Yoshi's recovery being screwed. Ness gets screwed in a similar way. Screwing Ness and Yoshi sounds like what Brawl needs to me.

The very long landing animations make airdoding in the air ever hopelessly unsafe for some characters (Luigi and DK mostly). So if Meta Knight or Mr. Game & Watch or someone happens to be pursuing them in the air, they now have zero options to defend themselves.

Did you think Mr. Game & Watch's juggling with his up aerial was obnoxious before? Have fun with it now; it's 50x better. Airdodging through it was a really important option for some characters, and now that's really unsafe to try. In fact, Mr. Game & Watch might be able to keep someone like DK in the air forever. He'd definitely be a way better character, and he's already top tier...

Ice Climbers having wavedashing makes landing grabs with them much easier, and remember it's a lot more practical in brawl to do their infinites than in melee once you land that grab (wavedashing might even give them more variations!). Assuming the fixed version doesn't cause an auto-desynch, they are probably completely broken so you wil think Meta Knight and Captain Falcon in standard brawl are practically on the same tier.

I don't understand why people are saying this should be used in any competitive sense at all as long as you can lock the game trivially with R.O.B.. If you want to move past just messing around, that lock-up is obviously completely unacceptable (not that this should ever move past just messing around anyway).

Have a whole lot of fun dealing with Pit arrow spam in the air when airdodging isn't a viable evasive option. How are you actually supposed to recover past a really smart and really good at aiming Pit with this airdodge mechanic?

As per some other suggestions:

L-Canceling - Is landing lag really too long in brawl? Last I checked it wasn't especially longer than in melee. Cutting it in half would give birth to smash 64 style gameplay more than melee style gameplay; how do you plan to handle Meta Knight doing short hop L-cancel aerials? How about Luigi? Any aerial that already didn't have much landing lag and has a nice hitbox is going to be really stupid with this, and I see absolutely no reason to add in having to press L anyway. If you want to cut lag in half, just do it always and don't require the button push (having to push the button adds in a completely non-skill and is strictly inferior to not having to push it).

Removing the delay from ledge actions would just make ledgestalling better; do you want that? Fox, Falco, and Bowser had infinite ledgestalls in melee if you were frame perfect if you recall, and I'm pretty sure smart ledgestalling was far more dangerous than it ever got explored for. Brawl fixed it... and you want to break it again?

More hitstun is just going to make the top guys better. Meta Knight is the obvious case. How about Mr. Game & Watch? Wouldn't it be so cool if the only way to escape the turtle -> turtle combo was smash DI and he could use air control and good spacing to chain them together in long series or to try to force you into a fishbowl? Maybe the Ice Climbers could exploit it to have an easier time landing grabs so they could be even more broken on top of the wavedashing? Wouldn't it be so much easier to camp with King Dedede if your random pokes kept them pinned down for longer? Some of the guys at the bottom would like this, but in general, it would favor the top.

"auto-sweetspotting" is really just brawl having more generous ledge detection which is a good thing. It was way easier for some characters to grab the ledge in melee than others, and it was pretty silly. It was especially bad if you tried to grab it without doing a B move like Jigglypuff usually liked to do; the detection area was stupidly small.

Brawl's balance really isn't bad, but the changes you people want would completely kill it. It's ridiculous how you get mad at anyone who speaks negatively of this, but they're just being realists and saying things that need to be said (if you can't see the myriad problems with using a hacked game in a tournament, you probably just aren't looking very hard).

That being said, this could be pretty fun for messing around. Codes that anyone could use to easily change the base damage, base knockback, and knockback scaling factor of arbitrary moves on top of a few other codes could be pretty cool in letting individuals use Ocarina to create their own fun "custom brawl" games. Of course, they'd have to understand that it's just not practical to try to move past the "just for fun" side of things.

Rather than speculating why don't you test it? If you can't test and back it up then there isn't much point in posting right now.

 

[VietGeek]

I'm currently uploading a short video showing some crap you can do w/ wavelanding.

I'm doing it w/ only Marth and Toon Link but we all know everyone gets extra options from this.

I'm doing wave lands on the side platforms of Battlefield. For some reason trying to do the top one totally went off of my mind.

But I did this for fun so no worries.

If Chibo's doesn't upload before mine, then mine can be the teaser to his more legit version.

*will edit this post*

 

[.CMW.]

Amazing Ampharos I feel your pain, for it is my pain as well. You make a lot of good points but guess what...Wavedashing is in Brawl, there is no convincing anyone that it isn't needed, its going to spread like wildfire and bring many other changes too. Just when I thought Brawl was fun AND imbalanced already, look what happens.

.CMW.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

brawl is bad and wavedashing wont even come close to saving it - but it'll be slightly more entertaining for side tourneys and stuff

 

[Collective of Bears]

wavedashing suck lol. JK, Seriously though, wavedashing is not need in brawl, (yoshi is going to suck again if implemented), the only thing that would improve brawl is hitstun and l-canceling.

Granted you mean more than he did before.

And I was never a huge fan of Wavedashing. Kill it with fire.

 

[What?]

So...do I even really need Twilight if I have to remove the save file from my Wii anyway?

I'm on the YouTube tutorial and I'm so gonna try it out.

Editz: Oh ****, it looks like I do.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

So I don't need to actually own Twilight.

I just need the specific save file.

Mwarrr! Why can't somebody just do it for me!

Shist. I'll figure it out f'reals, y'all.

You copy this save file (from that tutorial) onto your SD card, put your SD card into your Wii and copy the save file to it, switch on Twilight Princess, click that save file, you'll start outside your house and there will be a man standing infront of you, click that man and all this writing will appear, press A 4 times to accept it all, then it'll take you back to the Wii menu and the Homebrew Channel will be there.

 

[Cerozero]

I hate to just parrot someone, but Brawl is bad and not balanced in the least but this helps.

 

[What?]

I don't actually own the Twilight disc though.

I'll need to get it in order to move forward with this, ja?

 

[Makkun]

So...do I even really need Twilight if I have to remove the save file from my Wii anyway?

I'm on the YouTube tutorial and I'm so gonna try it out.

Editz: Oh ****, it looks like I do.

Like I said, you need to have Twilight in order to load the TP save file. It's a hacked save file with all hearts and items blah blah blah only like 12 seconds of actual gameplay. And you simply walk forward and talk to the guy in front of you.

@Mentosman8: You won't stop at the end of the platform if you do it right. Which I'm having a hard time doing. ): If you continue to hold your control stick over, you'll "run" right off the edge.

EDIT: @What?: Just rent Twilight or borrow it from someone. You only need it for a few minutes.

 

[Neon Ness]

And I was never a huge fan of Wavedashing. Kill it with fire.

If I knew how to make this quote my signature, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

It's true, though, wavedashing seems more mindgames than anything really useful. This coming from someone who didn't and still doesn't know how to wavedash very well, though...

 

[GHNeko]

I'm uploading too! Just two videos of my Wavedashing with Marth. The timing is pretty much different and you need to be slower with it. Overall, its just for fun. I was cracking up when I was doing it. In the second vid, I did show you it was possible to CG with Wavedashing, as I was able to get up to 3 fthrows across FD on Diddy, granted it was in training, It's still hilarious, but because of Brawl's new system and how there are characters with stupid good aerials, single airdodging = bad. Also, the distance traveled WHEN airdodging is pretty **** short imo.

If the first air dodge was melee style, and the rest were Brawl, then we'd be onto something. Still wouldnt help yoshi though. >:

 

[What?]

I'm just so happy I'll actually be able to STEP BACKWARDS in Brawl.

 

[Earthbound Zero]

I need to buy an SD card, now. o-o

 

[mentosman8]

I gotcha, I'm still getting used to the timing on it(definitely much harder to pull off a perfect wavedash), so hopefully once I'm more used to it I can pull that off

 

[CT Chia]

aight i cant really get the wavelanding down that well lol. im too used to melee, and it hurts my finger using Z so much (cause my timing is so bad with L and R) for a while. your momentum stops when u reach the ledge so u have to use a combination of WDing and dashing to get the full effect. the timing is much more precise than melee and the smallest error makes u airdodge melee style, lose all momentum, and slows everything down a lot. you can theoreticalyl do all the cool melee waveland stuff, but its tough without a lot of practice. im not gonna put up another vid right now, im not good enough at it lol

 

[Collective of Bears]

If I knew how to make this quote my signature, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

It's true, though, wavedashing seems more mindgames than anything really useful. This coming from someone who didn't and still doesn't know how to wavedash very well, though...

Copy the quote -> User CP -> Edit Sig -> Paste the quote -> Save sig.

Hey, I don't mind. I never liked Wavedashing. But that's just me.

 

[VietGeek]

Pretty much this will only be for fun. The simple fact is that we're probably unbalancing the game further artificially adding stuff like this.

Like for some reason I feel as if adding hitstun would make this game become Smash 64 in terms of ridiculousness.

But oh wait, my join date is in 2008 so my opinion doesn't matter. Not that it would change anyone's in the first place. ^_^

Eh, I should've just sacrificed quality for speed.

Whatever, you can watch my amazing tech skill in high definition (or at least as high as Youtube will offer).

^ So by the time I eat dinner, my sh*t should be ready to just be finalized on Youtube.

In the meantime, feel free to watch Marth pwn people with love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbEZQLgSQyI

 

[_Green_]

I hate to just parrot someone, but Brawl is bad and not balanced in the least but this helps.

No, not at all
It makes attacks in the air godly broken.

 

[Makkun]

aight i cant really get the wavelanding down that well lol. im too used to melee, and it hurts my finger using Z so much (cause my timing is so bad with L and R) for a while. your momentum stops when u reach the ledge so u have to use a combination of WDing and dashing to get the full effect. the timing is much more precise than melee and the smallest error makes u airdodge melee style, lose all momentum, and slows everything down a lot. you can theoreticalyl do all the cool melee waveland stuff, but its tough without a lot of practice. im not gonna put up another vid right now, im not good enough at it lol

If you're having trouble, try it with Sonic. I have only tried a few characters but he seemed really easy to use in order to get a feel for it.

My Sonic Wavelanding on Battlefield video is currently processing, so it should be posted soon.

 

[Collective of Bears]

But oh wait, my join date is in 2008 so my opinion doesn't matter. Not that it would change anyone's in the first place. ^_^

Don't worry. By 2009 you'll get some attention. But for now, nobody pays attention to Weegee '08ers.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Did you guys just make....
Draconic Reverse....Useless?

*******s...

Some characters will combo you to hell in back with Single airdodging. Yoshi for instance, will force to airdodge or take a hit with Egg toss if done right, and if you air dodge your screwed >.>

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

the ppl complaining about yoshi and ness not being able to recover and such didnt play enough melee, airdodging could get u into alot of trouble in melee if done wrong, now this applies to brawl. yoshi has super armor during his second jump like he did in melee he can DJ then up>B then control an AD back to the stage , if u complain about ppls recoveries then dont use the code, it was made for fun, not to break the game

and ive done an airdodge with rob and all he did was freeze in a standing position and blink then i landed and was able to continue playing but when i tried again it froze, just saying that it is probably possible to fix the freeze thing with rob

PS. I though rohins made a hitstun code already????

 

[Makkun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xs_UZM28OI

Here you go, Gimpy and friends. Yeah yeah I make some mistakes but I made the video after less than 10 minutes of practicing. I'd like to think that my wavelanding is really smooth in some parts, hopefully this is what you wanted to see, Gimpy.

By the way, I just played a short round with Pit, someone I don't really use. AND HE IS GODLY

Edit: I apologize for the quality of my videos... I need some real recording equipment. x_x

 

[Cerozero]

No, not at all
It makes attacks in the air godly broken.

you'll have to show me which ones.

 

[Kazydai]

I haven't logged on in months and all of a sudden I remember why.

This is just too ********!! This whole Brawl vs. Melee thing needs to stop!!! Yeah, the Melee to Brawl transition has been hard for some, but are all you people really gonna ***** about it THIS much!! I'm competitive and I love BOTH games for what they are and what they each have to offer.

Hell, the 64 to Melee transition was hard, too, for me at least. I rocked in 64, and sucked in Melee, when it first came out. Just going from the 64 controller to the GameCube controller was a *****, but I kept practicing and eventually I became good at Melee, too.

So we've moved from 64 to Melee...why can't we do the same for Brawl? People are just pissed because they feel threatened by new players. Apparently, slow heavyweights like Ike aren't supposed to win fights against Foxes and Shieks.

Whatever.

 

[Problem2]

hey, my wii just froze. D= I was playing MK vs ROB on Halberd.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Am I th only one who doesn't think this is a bid deal? Seriously it's not like this is going to affect the tourney scene or anything, and it was inevitable that someone was going to eventually figure this out, so what's the big deal. And yes I played melee

Spoiler

Quite badly though

and yes I can wavedash pretty well.

 

[Makkun]

hey, my wii just froze. D= I was playing MK vs ROB on Halberd.

Currently, airdodging with ROB freezes the game, 'cause he doesn't have an animation of the "specialfall" or whatever it's called when you are helpless in mid-air after using your Up-B.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I haven't logged on in months and all of a sudden I remember why.

This is just too ********!! This whole Brawl vs. Melee thing needs to stop!!! Yeah, the Melee to Brawl transition has been hard for some, but are all you people really gonna ***** about it THIS much!! I'm competitive and I love BOTH games for what they are and what they each have to offer.

Hell, the 64 to Melee transition was hard, too, for me at least. I rocked in 64, and sucked in Melee, when it first came out. Just going from the 64 controller to the GameCube controller was a *****, but I kept practicing and eventually I became good at Melee, too.

So we've moved from 64 to Melee...why can't we do the same for Brawl? People are just pissed because they feel threatened by new players. Apparently, slow heavyweights like Ike aren't supposed to win fights against Foxes and Shieks.

Whatever.

You totally win this thread.

 

[mentosman8]

I haven't logged on in months and all of a sudden I remember why.

This is just too ********!! This whole Brawl vs. Melee thing needs to stop!!! Yeah, the Melee to Brawl transition has been hard for some, but are all you people really gonna ***** about it THIS much!! I'm competitive and I love BOTH games for what they are and what they each have to offer.

Hell, the 64 to Melee transition was hard, too, for me at least. I rocked in 64, and sucked in Melee, when it first came out. Just going from the 64 controller to the GameCube controller was a *****, but I kept practicing and eventually I became good at Melee, too.

So we've moved from 64 to Melee...why can't we do the same for Brawl? People are just pissed because they feel threatened by new players. Apparently, slow heavyweights like Ike aren't supposed to win fights against Foxes and Shieks.

Whatever.

Please don't turn this into Melee vs. Brawl... This is just a hack(hence not tournament standard) for those who would like to play Brawl with some tweaks to put some more speed into the game. If you don't like the hack, don't post here, and definitely don't turn a discussion about a hack(which is incredibly fun, and an amazing piece of work) into a "You need to move on from Melee!!!", it's just not necessary and creates one of the threads you're *****ing about

Edit: Also, before you respond, I love Melee and Brawl in their own ways, this is just a way to mess around with a game that feels more like a sequel than a whole new game for the fun of it.

 

[.CMW.]

You totally win this thread.

Seconded.

.CMW.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xs_UZM28OI

Here you go, Gimpy and friends. Yeah yeah I make some mistakes but I made the video after less than 10 minutes of practicing. I'd like to think that my wavelanding is really smooth in some parts, hopefully this is what you wanted to see, Gimpy.

By the way, I just played a short round with Pit, someone I don't really use. AND HE IS GODLY

Edit: I apologize for the quality of my videos... I need some real recording equipment. x_x

First vid up, nice, I guess this is pretty cool, but like I said, it isn't that big of a deal IMO.

 

[Mmac]

I don't think a lot of people here are understanding the real balance implications of this. Wavedashing isn't even important compared to the new airdodging mechanic.

Mmac raised an excellent point with Yoshi's recovery being screwed. Ness gets screwed in a similar way. Screwing Ness and Yoshi sounds like what Brawl needs to me.

The very long landing animations make airdoding in the air ever hopelessly unsafe for some characters (Luigi and DK mostly). So if Meta Knight or Mr. Game & Watch or someone happens to be pursuing them in the air, they now have zero options to defend themselves.

Did you think Mr. Game & Watch's juggling with his up aerial was obnoxious before? Have fun with it now; it's 50x better. Airdodging through it was a really important option for some characters, and now that's really unsafe to try. In fact, Mr. Game & Watch might be able to keep someone like DK in the air forever. He'd definitely be a way better character, and he's already top tier...

Ice Climbers having wavedashing makes landing grabs with them much easier, and remember it's a lot more practical in brawl to do their infinites than in melee once you land that grab (wavedashing might even give them more variations!). Assuming the fixed version doesn't cause an auto-desynch, they are probably completely broken so you wil think Meta Knight and Captain Falcon in standard brawl are practically on the same tier.

I don't understand why people are saying this should be used in any competitive sense at all as long as you can lock the game trivially with R.O.B.. If you want to move past just messing around, that lock-up is obviously completely unacceptable (not that this should ever move past just messing around anyway).

Have a whole lot of fun dealing with Pit arrow spam in the air when airdodging isn't a viable evasive option. How are you actually supposed to recover past a really smart and really good at aiming Pit with this airdodge mechanic?

As per some other suggestions:

L-Canceling - Is landing lag really too long in brawl? Last I checked it wasn't especially longer than in melee. Cutting it in half would give birth to smash 64 style gameplay more than melee style gameplay; how do you plan to handle Meta Knight doing short hop L-cancel aerials? How about Luigi? Any aerial that already didn't have much landing lag and has a nice hitbox is going to be really stupid with this, and I see absolutely no reason to add in having to press L anyway. If you want to cut lag in half, just do it always and don't require the button push (having to push the button adds in a completely non-skill and is strictly inferior to not having to push it).

Removing the delay from ledge actions would just make ledgestalling better; do you want that? Fox, Falco, and Bowser had infinite ledgestalls in melee if you were frame perfect if you recall, and I'm pretty sure smart ledgestalling was far more dangerous than it ever got explored for. Brawl fixed it... and you want to break it again?

More hitstun is just going to make the top guys better. Meta Knight is the obvious case. How about Mr. Game & Watch? Wouldn't it be so cool if the only way to escape the turtle -> turtle combo was smash DI and he could use air control and good spacing to chain them together in long series or to try to force you into a fishbowl? Maybe the Ice Climbers could exploit it to have an easier time landing grabs so they could be even more broken on top of the wavedashing? Wouldn't it be so much easier to camp with King Dedede if your random pokes kept them pinned down for longer? Some of the guys at the bottom would like this, but in general, it would favor the top.

"auto-sweetspotting" is really just brawl having more generous ledge detection which is a good thing. It was way easier for some characters to grab the ledge in melee than others, and it was pretty silly. It was especially bad if you tried to grab it without doing a B move like Jigglypuff usually liked to do; the detection area was stupidly small.

Brawl's balance really isn't bad, but the changes you people want would completely kill it. It's ridiculous how you get mad at anyone who speaks negatively of this, but they're just being realists and saying things that need to be said (if you can't see the myriad problems with using a hacked game in a tournament, you probably just aren't looking very hard).

That being said, this could be pretty fun for messing around. Codes that anyone could use to easily change the base damage, base knockback, and knockback scaling factor of arbitrary moves on top of a few other codes could be pretty cool in letting individuals use Ocarina to create their own fun "custom brawl" games. Of course, they'd have to understand that it's just not practical to try to move past the "just for fun" side of things.

I wish more people would pay attention to this

 

[Pluvia's other account]

You totally win this thread.

Seconded.

.CMW.

No he doesn't.

 

[VietGeek]

You totally win this thread.

So...when we try to go against something, using curse words and exclamation points correctly will neat us free Internets?

And Solid, we know this really won't affect anything. Heck, Ice Climbers have one of the sexiest wavedashes but Popo gets so desync'd by it I feel it will either give ICs more possibilities, or just make WDing for them a desync process rather than mobility.

But we all know this is for fun. Making this the standard is asking for suicide lol.

Anyone know why a 167 MB video takes a day-break and beyond to finish? <_<