wave dashin in brawl

[Amon Yakamoto]

or the fact that Marth takes damage if u hit his sword...Thats Some old Bull-****, they need 2 correct that for Brawl

 

[Slippy Toad]

Personally I hope its gone

 

[Ophelius]

i think what you're trying to say is
i suck at this game and NINTENDO MADE IT TOO HARD

This game is NOT too hard you :newbie:!

 

[Ironclad]

or the fact that Marth takes damage if u hit his sword...Thats Some old Bull-****, they need 2 correct that for Brawl

Yeah I know, jeez Marth has it so hard already.

This thread has really devolved into something completely meaningless. Probably because there's not really anything left to discuss.

 

[Ophelius]

Right. Hmmm... Ummm... Nope, nothing. I just think that if they take WD out of Brawl, they'd put something else even more complicated in.

 

[Amon Yakamoto]

uuh yea....complicated............Wavedashing rules heh heh.
No but seriously it wouldn't be as thrilling without all the advanced moves mainly wavedashing, sure they got that raw *** Tri-Force Omni Slash for Link and stuff but without the fast action it just won't be as thrilling

 

[Inferno_blaze]

It'd stil have the same action, and pretty much the same speed without WD, all I see they need to do is speed up roll a bit and make you invincible suring the whole thing and it'd be fine.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

that would be some infinite invincible rolls. we dont need no dark sakura-esc bs.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

What are you on about? They're still be lag after rolls, yyou'd just be invincible whilst rolling (you aren't all the way though at the moment) and they should be a little faster.

 

[Chromeless]

What are you on about? They're still be lag after rolls, yyou'd just be invincible whilst rolling (you aren't all the way though at the moment) and they should be a little faster.

I still think that WDing plays a far too important role to simply be rid of, and I don't think it would be a good Idea to make rolls much better then they are now. Rolls serve the purpose of the quick escape, you use them when you jsut want to get away from a given situation, NOW. WDing on the other hand is a far more calculated response and allows much more interesting play in many ways. The key is that it allows much finer control over spacing, allowing you to fake out your opponent by setting up false advances and retreats, and allowing you to keep the preasure on your opponent by keeping the fight closer and retaliating faster.

I do strongly advocate making WDing easier to pull of though, surely assigning such a simple move to a button wouldn't harm the game as long as the infinites are taken care of..

 

[MonkeyMan]

WDing isn't that hard to start with, making any ******** newb able to do it takes out a bit of the compeitive nature of smash. plus it'd almost take out a layer of intensity, having a culmintation of all the techs makes what play this game really good some time. (meaning compleatly owning newbs and haveing a great match between pro's.) well i'm being redundant. the only thing i might think of changing is making triangle jumping (kinda like a 1/2 wave dash but you leave the ground for a short time) more usful cuz that honestly is almost usless

 

[Chromeless]

WDing isn't that hard to start with, making any ******** newb able to do it takes out a bit of the compeitive nature of smash. plus it'd almost take out a layer of intensity, having a culmintation of all the techs makes what play this game really good some time. (meaning compleatly owning newbs and haveing a great match between pro's.) well i'm being redundant. the only thing i might think of changing is making triangle jumping (kinda like a 1/2 wave dash but you leave the ground for a short time) more usful cuz that honestly is almost usless

I fail to see what is '********' about newbs being able to WD in much the same way that I find 'owning newbs' simply because I know a move they don't to be compleatly unsatisfying. Matches between pros would hardly become less intense because the move is easier to do, they will still have to work just as hard to so much as touch each other (and if anything WDing could be given more depth by altering its physics anyway).

I simply see no value in making a basic move difficult to do for the sole sake of making it difficult to do.

 

[King Malice]

If WDing is no more in the Wii, you will see a lot of people still playing the GC, therefore decreasing profits for the Wii.

You and I, and everyone knows that if one sole smash player gets the Wii and realizes there is no WDing in it, they will make it an announcement on the forums, which would make no one want to buy the Wii.

 

[Thino]

WD is cool , advanced technique, fast , useful and all... but ,is and stay a glitch that debuggers just let in the final release . chances are for it to be remove in Brawl

 

[Inferno_blaze]

If WDing is no more in the Wii, you will see a lot of people still playing the GC, therefore decreasing profits for the Wii.

You and I, and everyone knows that if one sole smash player gets the Wii and realizes there is no WDing in it, they will make it an announcement on the forums, which would make no one want to buy the Wii.

Do you REALLY think that the fact that WD isn't in it will stop people buying it? If you wouldn't buy it simply because they took out one thing then you really aren't a smash bros fan. Even if people on this forum didn't buy it which will never happen, melee was japan's only million selling GC game! You reckon that was because of WD, people didn't buy melee knowing it was in there and got on fine without it. As yet another point, it's 1 game on the wii, people will still buy the console for other games like TP and MP3 or Galaxy.

Also I agree with Chromeless that it'd be better if they make it a proper move in the game (a slide back or forward), it just means other people can do it which there is nothing wrong with, It does open up more oprtunities like faking but I believe that if it's in it should not be faster than running speed to do multiple ones as otherwise you just don't runn with some characters (luigi). If they make it like L-canceling is then I'm happy for it to be in. Making it a button wouldn't remove any complexity of it's use only what you press, all the techs and such would still be there.

 

[Randall00]

I can't really forsee them NOT including wavedashing for Brawl. It's a property of the physics of the game. If they were to remove wavedashing, they would have to remove directional air dodges, as the wavedash is how the engine handles a landfall during an air dodge. Otherwise, we'd air dodge through the floor of the stage and die.

If they kept air dodges and replaced the wavedashing mechanic with just a simple standing landfall you'd be able to land with no lag and no momentum regardless of which direction you were heading. This would be an incredibly broken mechanic because it would be effectively going against the entire Smash principle of having the same attack hit you further and further as you accumulate more damage.

If you could just air dodge into the ground to stop your momentum, you could conceivably take a forward smash on Flatzone at 500% damage, air dodge into the ground (or a platform), stop completely and continue on with the match. Egads....

 

[Thino]

They could just make it so the engine disables all down air dodge from a certain distance from the ground

 

[Randall00]

Well, yes, they could, but I can see that being pretty frustrating in actual gameplay. Plus there has to be a good reason for them to remove wavedashing if it's going to happen at all. That, or a good reason to "disable" downward air dodges at certain distances above the ground.

I don't know about you, but I can't think of a good reason for either. The wavedashing mechanic is not seriously broken (if at all) and the tremendous following and staying power of the game at the highest level is a testament to that fact.

Additionally, it's certainly not a character imbalance issue, if that's what some people are thinking. The characters with the strongest wavedashing properties aren't even top tier and although Fox may have a great wavedash, it's got nothing on Luigi's or the Ice Climbers, but you can bet he's winning more tournaments. Sure, Fox probably wouldn't be as strong without the wavedash, but at the same time, it's not the wavedash that makes or breaks his position in the tiers.

 

[Zodiac]

It'd stil have the same action, and pretty much the same speed without WD, all I see they need to do is speed up roll a bit and make you invincible suring the whole thing and it'd be fine.

Wavedashing does have many advantages, though its not used TOO much by most pros. I hardly use it at all unless it can give me a distinct advantage. like WD backward and dsmasheing with y.link.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Additionally, it's certainly not a character imbalance issue, if that's what some people are thinking. The characters with the strongest wavedashing properties aren't even top tier and although Fox may have a great wavedash, it's got nothing on Luigi's or the Ice Climbers, but you can bet he's winning more tournaments. Sure, Fox probably wouldn't be as strong without the wavedash, but at the same time, it's not the wavedash that makes or breaks his position in the tiers.

It helps the higher tiers more than the lower tiers in ratio, think of how many of the low tiers have pathetic WD, bowser for instance, DK, there are plenty, top tier they all have good to great ones, fox's marths both are great. Sheik doesn't really need it with her agility.

 

[MonkeyMan]

I fail to see what is '********' about newbs being able to WD in much the same way that I find 'owning newbs' simply because I know a move they don't to be compleatly unsatisfying. Matches between pros would hardly become less intense because the move is easier to do, they will still have to work just as hard to so much as touch each other (and if anything WDing could be given more depth by altering its physics anyway).

I simply see no value in making a basic move difficult to do for the sole sake of making it difficult to do.

you take my words out of context with your 1st quote, its not ******** for newbs to WD but some people simply can't do it which is ********, i'm calling the people ******** not the actoin of making it easier. 2ndly its not just knowing somthing they don't its proving that they don't know as much as they blab, way too many people i meet think they're good, but alll they can do is C stick and B moves and i simply smack the **** out of them for being so oblivious. and as i said before its not just makeing it duificult (which it really isn't) but its using a move that takes time to master to show off a lil bit of your valor, the fact that it'd still be just as hard to hit people isn't really the issue. might be yours but don't address it as mine

 

[Chromeless]

you take my words out of context with your 1st quote, its not ******** for newbs to WD but some people simply can't do it which is ********, i'm calling the people ******** not the actoin of making it easier. 2ndly its not just knowing somthing they don't its proving that they don't know as much as they blab, way too many people i meet think they're good, but alll they can do is C stick and B moves and i simply smack the **** out of them for being so oblivious. and as i said before its not just makeing it duificult (which it really isn't) but its using a move that takes time to master to show off a lil bit of your valor, the fact that it'd still be just as hard to hit people isn't really the issue. might be yours but don't address it as mine

Ignoring the semantics of the '1st quote' (which I believe is best dropped like a hot potato), the last part I believe to be important. The issue is mine and that of all those who don't wish skill in Smash to be defined by technical methods. I expect many here to disagree with my views, but I do feel that it possible for most people here to at least empathise with my view in the same way that I empathise with the pro technical view.

I don't believe in showing off 'a little bit of your valor', you may, but understand that I gain absoutely not satisfycation whatsoever out of beating someone because they have inferior technical skills to myself. That is where I'm coming from, I simply disagree on what this game is 'about', I don't feel that it should be 'about' technical skill anymore then chess is about weightlifting. I mean, ok, you can become good at WDing fairly easily, but even so, the controls still force to to preplan the move to a degree that you shouldn't need to were it a one button/cardinal direction affair.

I do understand that you may feel otherwise though, you may appreciate technical mastery for itself alone and I understand that. But understand that I do not and for that reason do not wish any more of it then absolutely necessary.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

I don't see how it would take any less time to master it, it's all in how you use it not how you press the buttons, a noob would stil lget owned and use it completely wrong and you'd still trash them. The game should be about how you aplly what you can do, which it is for the most part, there's no good reason for it not to be made into a move. Plus it'd get rid of that annoying jumping noise from characters like mario. Also hopefully making them look less ********.

 

[MonkeyMan]

Ignoring the semantics of the '1st quote' (which I believe is best dropped like a hot potato), the last part I believe to be important. The issue is mine and that of all those who don't wish skill in Smash to be defined by technical methods. I expect many here to disagree with my views, but I do feel that it possible for most people here to at least empathise with my view in the same way that I empathise with the pro technical view.

I don't believe in showing off 'a little bit of your valor', you may, but understand that I gain absoutely not satisfycation whatsoever out of beating someone because they have inferior technical skills to myself. That is where I'm coming from, I simply disagree on what this game is 'about', I don't feel that it should be 'about' technical skill anymore then chess is about weightlifting. I mean, ok, you can become good at WDing fairly easily, but even so, the controls still force to to preplan the move to a degree that you shouldn't need to were it a one button/cardinal direction affair.

I do understand that you may feel otherwise though, you may appreciate technical mastery for itself alone and I understand that. But understand that I do not and for that reason do not wish any more of it then absolutely necessary.

ohh see that's all i wanted to hear! ^^ well it is true i admire technical skill but that only gets you so far. but skill i consider isn't just that on a technical level. My friend has the tech skills down way better then i and I still win 1/2 the time because we are about as equaily skilled in different areas. But this thread isn't one based off of technical skill just WDing so i digress, but if you look a couple posts earlier some one makes an increadibly strong point about waveshining that can't be simply ignored. You do make a strong point thogh that skill can't be measured only on a technical level. Sorry if there were any misunderstandings.

 

[SiegK]

Yeah I know, jeez Marth has it so hard already.

Are u kidding me? Marth, Fox and Shiek have it way too easy. Lol. They pawn all. But cant be considered someone's 'best' character. Too imba (Imbalanced), need to change Fox and Shiek, Marth a little bit too. LOL, Peach and Yoshie's broken moves are so funny. BAM 50% BAM 75%. Haha.
(sorry of Im a lil late with this, but I just had to say something)

 

[Dirty Rotten Imbecile]

completly off topic but siegk i agree wtih you banner 100%. SONIC FOR TOP TIER!!!!!!!!

 

[Zombie Cola]

Nintendo answers,

Ok guys, it took a few days but I finally got a response from Nintendo on the Wavedash situation. The response was vague to say the least, although I doubt it's due to a lack of information I have included the e-mail I sent as well as the response. Hopefully this will clear some stuff up, or at the very least settle a few arguments.

This e-mail is unedited and presented in its entirety, unless noted otherwise.

Hi, first off I would like to thank you for taking the time to read these e-mails, as I can tell you that it means a lot to all the fans that you
really care about our opinions. My question is one that has been presented time and time again, but I have yet to see a clear and honest answer. The so
called wavedashing technique in Super Smash Brothers Melee, was it an intentional aspect of the game, or did it simply slip through? If it was unintentional then I completely understand, Nintendo and HAL labs cant be perfect ALL the time. However, if HAL knew about it at the time of release, did they purposly put it there or was it just the culmination of several different gameplay features that were left in the game intentionally? If so, did you mean for it to be used as it is today, or were your hopes that it would just solve some minor physics problems? I doubt seriously that any of the following information can be provided at this time, but what is the overall likelihood of the wavedash appearing in Smash Brothers Brawl? Once again thank you so much for your time, and consideration.




Message(#6851-000519-4503\5194503)

Hello and thank you for contacting Nintendo,

I'm afraid there isn't an answer to your question about the wavedashing
move you mentioned in your e-mail. Having said that, I am unable to
find specific information in regard to this game feature or if it will be
something included with the upcoming Super Smash Bros. Brawl game..

Nintendo excels at making sure our fans can get backstory information,
character descriptions, and--most importantly--the information they
require to complete the games that we publish. This can happen through
our website (www.nintendo.com), Player's Guides, and Nintendo Power
magazine.

Having said that, many details about our games will remain mysteries,
left to the active imagination of the player. You can share what you
think with other like-minded fans at our forums
(http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo). There are a number of bulletin
boards/forums which allow you to post questions and observations. You
can also participate in online chats.

In order to use this feature of our site, you'll need a My Nintendo
membership, but it's free and easy to get by going to the following
address:

http://my.nintendo.com/cpp/mynintendo/myNintendo.do

If you have questions, please visit our FAQ page:

http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/help_faq

Sincerely,

Nintendo of America Inc.
David Glover

Nintendo's home page: http://www.nintendo.com/
Power Line (Automated Product Info): (425) 885-7529

 

[SiegK]

So...They didn't know about it?

 

[bbb]

Totally off topic but, Dirty Rotten Imbecile I agree with your name.

 

[Chromeless]

Wait, so you asked Nintendo of America?

Keep in mind that they only take part in localisation and marketing, I seriously doubt that they would have any idea what was going on in the mind of the physics programmer.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Wait, so you asked Nintendo of America?

Keep in mind that they only take part in localisation and marketing, I seriously doubt that they would have any idea what was going on in the mind of the physics programmer.

No, I sent it to the only section where they would allow questions. Nintendo of America also serves as the info hub for the US, info is handed down to them and they give it to us. I have a friend that works as a Nintendo marketing rep and she used to always tell us the stuff that came directly from Nintendo Japan.

 

[McFox]

It sounds like the rep who answered your mail had absolutely no idea what you were talking about.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Yeah I actually thought about that. Sort of pisses me off to be honest with you.

 

[Dirty Rotten Imbecile]

Totally off topic but, Dirty Rotten Imbecile I agree with your name.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[SiegK]

Nuthing has changed. HAHAHA. Still stuck w8ing for Brawl and what will really come. Wow. We are all kinda usless? Exept those of us with common sense. Yay for common sense and totaly off topic awesome banners and names!

 

[bbb]

Nuthing has changed. HAHAHA. Still stuck w8ing for Brawl and what will really come. Wow. We are all kinda usless? Exept those of us with common sense. Yay for common sense and totaly off topic awesome banners and names!

yeah, pretty much, but until it comes out, I say we all bicker like ninnies!!!!






I want a wii so bad.

 

[commonyoshi]

Pun intended?

 

[McFox]

Do not bicker like ninnies on this forum or I'll end up banning you. If you're bored because you don't have anything to post, then don't post NOTHING, just don't post period. People can still post to a forum without actually saying anything, which is what starts happening when people get boerd. If you don't have anything to say, don't say it.

 

[SiegK]

Do not bicker like ninnies on this forum or I'll end up banning you. If you're bored because you don't have anything to post, then don't post NOTHING, just don't post period. People can still post to a forum without actually saying anything, which is what starts happening when people get boerd. If you don't have anything to say, don't say it.

Calm down dude, ur the one talking off topic. We're talking about bickering like ninnies about if wavedashing will be in the braw or now, and kill eachother in doing so. We are bickering about Wavedashing and we are ninnies because it doesnt matter what we really say at all untill the wii does come out. So =P

 

[bbb]

Yes indeed pun intended. But I think the only way to settle this particular debate would be to e-mail Sakurai some how. Sadly not even a guy I know who used to live in Japan can write Japanese so I son't know how you'd translate. But I personnaly think if they wanted to get rid of wave dashing, they would have done something about it in the European and Australian versions like they did to some of the other glitches as well as Marth's and Falco's D-air spike.

But that's just me.