wave dashin in brawl

[Ironclad]

Does this discussion of whether or not it's an exploit really matter? I for one, don't believe it does.

Let's assume for a moment that Zombie Cola and those who agree with him are correct, wavedashing was an unitentional exploit that the developers never learned of until long after the game's release, making it too late to change.

Does this automatically mean they're going to take it out? No, it does not. Although they did not intend to put it in, they may well realize it's value in the competetive scene and decide to keep it. Nobody, and I mean nobody, except the developers themselves can possibly know either way at this point.

Many of you anti-wavedashing people have the wrong kind of attitude. Some of you seem to think, "Hey, I'm really good at the game, except I can't wavedash. If they take out wavedashing, I can be pro!" I'm afraid that this simply isn't true. The people who make it to the professional level are those who are most dedicated to the game. Wavedashing is not a very difficult technique to learn, and if you aren't willing to put in the time and effort to learn it, then you obviously are not the kind of person who is going to have the drive necessary to be really good.

On the other hand, you may be saying,"I don't care about being pro." Well then, I ask you, why are you so adamant about removing a technique that is primarily only used by those who are serious about competetive smash? Just because wavedashing is there, doesn't mean you absolutely have to use it. Someone please help me to understand why a casual smash player cares about what goes on in the competetive scene if he is never going to be part of it.

 

[CStick]

don't forget, L-cancelling was not originally supposed to be in the first SSB. Even if L-cancelling and wavedashing are glitches, (which they arent) they are not unfair, since they can be done by anyone in the game. Seriously, whats the big deal?

Anyways, it would suck if they take wavedashing out, but I'll live as long as you can still L-cancel.

I'm sure both will still be part of the game, since they do not harm the game, nor do they offer any significantly unfair advantage to any character.

Back on topic: It really depends. From what I heard, the people working on the game now werent the same people who worked on melee, so for all we know they might start clean, which means certain things may not be carried over.

However, I have some faith that wavedashing and at least some kind of lag cancelling will carry over. If it does not, then I'm sure it will ruin Brawl's competitive play potential, which means you won't see me nor alot of other people playing it anymore.

 

[S P I K E]

god **** it is never that serious on typing that much anyways yeah wavedashing should be in brawls since he makers of ssbm but wding in the game to c wat people can do with it. wd changes the whole game play and the movement of any character. like bower without wding he would be slow and usless but wding makes him alot more quicker and moblie around the stage.

AHAHAHAHAH!!!!! Bowser's wavedash is terrible... Thanks and bye... And Zombie Cola, yes you did say that wavedashing was unintended in the game, and in a way you stated glitch, but it seems your wording was simply off. I've stated that people exploited this simple "problem fixing" technique for the current metagame since the beginning. And to clear a few things up for people... Air dodge is theoretically possible in real world physics. =P
Just haven't met anybody with the sheer power and quickness to do it. My reasoning behind this is simply in impulse... Impulse is determined by the time it takes for a certain force to do a certain job on an object, or in this case, your character. Say you slowly raise your leg while laying back on ice, a low friction surface... It wouldn't move you much would it? But through kicking it forward quickly and with some power behind it, you'll move forward correct? Meaning, that the faster a force acts on an object, the greater the force. It's an inverse relation. This in turn could be true while air borne. =D Just getting theoretical though.

 

[Zombie Cola]

This is the same 5-6 posts repeating over 17 pages..........

 

[S P I K E]

Was just lowering the vocabulary standard to let the youngins' understand Zombie.

 

[Rye]

Actually, on a zero friction surface, kicking your leg would result in ZERO movement, no matter how hard you kick. The only reason you would ever move would be because of friction.

You kick outward, newton says the force will act equally and oppositionally to your kick and you'd go nowhere.


Anywho, back to airdodge conversation....

 

[shadydentist]

well, if you kicked quickly and your shoe came off, then you'd be moving. Conservation of momentum, see? And theres no such thing as a "speed" of force, only strength and direction.

 

[Rye]

He never mentioned anything about removal of personal wears. Hell I could "Air dodge" if I jumped into the air with a 100lb weight.

And since your leg won't gain mass, the only way to increase the power of a vector is to increase velocity. Velocity does affect power

 

[Zombie Cola]

Real-time physics engine....not High-end.

 

[S P I K E]

I never said zero-friction did I? That wouldn't matter either way, if you apply a force such as kicking your leg, you're going to move. =P

 

[SiegK]

Wow, this thread needs to die. Lolz. Please. Ite the same thing over and over again. now we arnt even talking about wavedashing and brawl. Now its on 0-friction. new thread plix.
XD

 

[S P I K E]

He was the one that brought that up, it's just an in depth discussion of how theoretically, airdodging is possible IRL physics. Heh heh...

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Actually, on a zero friction surface, kicking your leg would result in ZERO movement, no matter how hard you kick. The only reason you would ever move would be because of friction.

You kick outward, newton says the force will act equally and oppositionally to your kick and you'd go nowhere.

I would just like to point out that this is WRONG, people can move in space (zero friction) by pushing out their legs or arms, there is and equal and opposite reaction to any action, you kick out your leg, you move the opposite direction, with zero friction you would simply move forever as there are no forces acting upon you. A body with balanced forces (or none at all) acting upon it will remain at rest or travel at a steady speed.

I like this thread, it's become intellectual and is talking about physics, a subject I am very interested in (gonna take it A-level).

 

[Stryks]

No... more... physics... brain... hurts...

 

[bbb]

I would just like to point out that this is WRONG, people can move in space (zero friction) by pushing out their legs or arms, there is and equal and opposite reaction to any action, you kick out your leg, you move the opposite direction, with zero friction you would simply move forever as there are no forces acting upon you. A body with balanced forces (or none at all) acting upon it will remain at rest or travel at a steady speed.

Untrue, the fact that every action causes an opposite and equal reaction is exactly why there would be no change in movement, or the lack there of.

Two equal forces acting in opposite directions = zero net force

Zero net force means = zero acceleration

 

[S P I K E]

Plan 9 wins that argument. =P he is correct. =D I never said zero friction in the first place though, so that is irrevelant to this entire thread. There is friction in Smash Brothers... so lets stop arguing about zero-friction... Kay..?? Thanks.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Lawl. Spike ftw.

 

[Rash]

wavdashinbraw!

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Untrue, the fact that every action causes an opposite and equal reaction is exactly why there would be no change in movement, or the lack there of.

Two equal forces acting in opposite directions = zero net force

Zero net force means = zero acceleration

Nope fraid not, you can move in space see,by waving your arm, your arm pushing out one was causes and opposite reaction which is you being pushed the other way, there is an uneven force as there is nothing resisting your push which means that you accelerate in the opposite direction. You can move in a vacuum. Newton's law states that an object with equal forces acting upon it will remain at a steady speed or be stationary, you create an unbalanced force by flapping your arms, once you stop the forces are equal again and you remain at a steady speed.

What you are saying is that it is impossible for us to move as there are always equal forces acting upon us which is untrue.

Ahem yeah I should really stop.

 

[S P I K E]

The lack of space in a vacuum wouldn't allow you to move unless you gained mass, or lost mass, or perhaps energy. mass may be converted into energy and vice versa through the equation we know as E=mc^2... You see, kicking your leg or waving your arm would not allow you to move because the force of your arm in one direction has the same effect in the other direction. You simply have nothing to push off of. I made an error in my previous statment and withdraw from it. Now say, if you threw an item, such as a weight, or article of clothing, yes, you would move. But you wouldn't move very fast at all.

It's the same with how astronauts move in space, they use "jet packs" to release energy from behind them and direct them to whatever location they may desire. If your stuck in the middle of a vacuum, your only hope is to have a prjectile to move.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Sorry what I meant to say is that in a vacuum it is still possible to move as in you can twist and turn around, it's hard to push against something as there is nothing to push against but you can still twist around, however if you farted then that would send you off in the opposite direction due to the force it produces causing imbalancements, I didn't mean to say you could easily move like forward and backward, you probably could but it'd be hard to do (just beein speaking to my mum, who used to be a thingy physicist but now's a teacher.

So we were both wrong and right, I did mean moving by doing something like throwing just got muddled up.

 

[Zombie Cola]

.....back on topic guys. No offense, but none of this applies to Brawl.

 

[Revolver Roosevelt]

I'm pretty sure you would only be able to simulate wavedashing in real life by strapping rockets onto people. When a character airdodges, he almost instantly accelerates to a certain velocity and moves at a constant speed for a bit before deccelerating. By hitting the ground, characters cancel out the decceleration period and simply use friction to slow down to a halt. Luigi's low coefficiant of kinetic friction makes the friction force in a wavedash weaker than the force that normally halts an airdodge.

To see a similar example of this, play as Captain Falcon in training mode. Slow down the game to 1/4 speed Have falcon dash forward and shorthop. When Falcon hits the ground, you should notice that he stops moving a bit farther away than where he actually lands. While it is nowhere near as useful as a wavedash, its the same general idea.

If you could airdodge in real life, you WOULD be able to wavedash, although I doubt you would get a good effect out of it.

 

[MetaKnight0]

If you could wavedash in real life you would end up with many painful friction burns.

 

[SiegK]

Wow this thread has come along way. Lol. At least We're not pissed off at eachother talking about if wavedashing is a glitch or not anymore. Anyway. Wavedash rl? umm, wow. Id have alot of fun with that, haha. Dude, picture Sonic wavedashing, u wouldnt even be able to see him. Haha.

 

[CHUK]

Physics For The Dont Give A Crap!!!

 

[Pierce7d]

I just discovered WaveDashing today, and while I still have mastered it, I doubt it'll take me long. While I love it, it's also unbalances gameplay a bit, so I hope it's removed, or at least limited.

 

[ynnek123]

now, the wavedash actually isnt a real move put in. So why it should vanish? it should only go away if the airdodge did.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Wow this thread has come along way. Lol. At least We're not pissed off at eachother talking about if wavedashing is a glitch or not anymore. Anyway. Wavedash rl? umm, wow. Id have alot of fun with that, haha. Dude, picture Sonic wavedashing, u wouldnt even be able to see him. Haha.

O RLY? Well you're gay! Yeah you heard me! Haha go me for ruingin this thread again, flame me! I want WD removed! j/k

Also the post above mine makes no sense.

 

[Stryks]

now, the wavedash actually isnt a real move put in. So why it should vanish? it should only go away if the airdodge did.

... Ok is it just me, or is this guy high or something? seriously its hard to understand what he said...

 

[ynnek123]

why doesn't it makes any sens. the wavedash is a move discovered by pros . just jumping and airdodging very fast after eachother isn't a real move. and sorry i can't speak english very well.

 

[mista_mista]

Hmm, I'm gonna have to try WD in real life...

 

[titus]

Hmm, I'm gonna have to try WD in real life...

it's easy just do it on ice.

 

[In the Fray]

now, the wavedash actually isnt a real move put in. So why it should vanish? it should only go away if the airdodge did.

he said wave dashin isnt a real move put in by the creators, so why should it leave, and it should only leave if airdodgeing did.

 

[ynnek123]

he said wave dashin isnt a real move put in by the creators, so why should it leave, and it should only leave if airdodgeing did.

thx for pointing it out for them...

 

[In the Fray]

i think we should still be able 2 do it... wavedashing takes lots! of practice 2 master no one knows if we have it or not... yet!

Dude theres nothing hard about airdodgeing across the ground >.>

 

[titus]

Dude theres nothing hard about airdodgeing across the ground >.>

aren't you sugar coating it a bit?

fast falling a short hop while doing a downwards+sideways airdodge sounds better. and less easy.

 

[In the Fray]

aren't you sugar coating it a bit?

fast falling a short hop while doing a downwards+sideways airdodge sounds better. and less easy.

very small shorthop, and dodgeing immdeitly over, sounds easy and its a perfect wavedash. Not to mention what you said sounds more like wave landing.

thx for pointing it out for them...

No prob.

 

[JJC]

Eh, Wavedashing is overrated. You don't need it to win and if it's removed then you'll have to get by with the methods of speed and spacing that the developers originally intended to be used; ie rolling, dashing and jumping (of any length). If you can't use a characters normal attributes to space and move fluidly and rely too much on wavedashing to begin with you aren't that good anyway.

Adapt and learn.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

thx for pointing it out for them...

Then it makes less sense than before.... So basically he's saying because it's not a realy move it should only be removed if something like airdodge was removed, keep in mind that air dodge is a real move. That's why it makes no sense. The fact that it's not a real move is surely removing any connection to airdodging and imo is why it should be removed. If you're saying the only way to remove it is to remove airdodge then you're wrong and many ways have been explained on previous pages.