wave dashin in brawl

[NeoFalconHavok]

Wow people care so much about a technical fault in a game its disgusting.

 

[Bajef8]

i think wavedashing is a glitch. it might still be in brawl if sakurai noticed it and didn't care or he didn't notice it [doubtful] and it won't be in if sakurai noticed it and thought of it as a glitch that ruined the point if his gam.

 

[FadedImage]

Well, when it comes to the wavedash, I'm fairly sure they're going to leave it in, my fear/worry is that they'll somehow make it more official, which may impact the use of wavedashing. By official I mean hopefully there's not a recognition system where it reads what you're doing a performs a wavedash for you, to the point where it becomes like a short roll dodge, or something of that nature. The main reason I find wavedashing useful is because it is such a unique movement, you can control how far, how fast, etc. So to make it a set move would be a shame.

 

[S P I K E]

Sure it's been pointed out before... but in debug mode... it clearly states that wavedash or waveland, is a special landing. It was designed into the game. It's titled as "SPECIAL LANDING" in the debug mode... go try it... c'mon.

 

[SiD]

Ok, if that's true, it's evidence that wavelanding may have been intentional, but I guarantee they didn't foresee wavedashing.

 

[gnosis]

That is a fact, just about every definition states that wavedashing is the aftermath of an error. Simple as that.
.

A small error, you say?

Let's see. The physics system sustains aerial momentum when you hit the ground, based on the degree and angle of momentum and the traction of the character and floor. This is true for momentum from being hit, normal aerial movement, and air dodging. If you air dodge into the ground, you gain momentum from the air dodge and ride it out for a set amount, based on the force, traction, and angle involved.

Nope, no errors. It'd be more arguable that -not- being able to wavedash would be an error, or at least a peculiarity, considering how the rest of the system works.

 

[StarIceRaptor]

Id say manipulation of movement sounds kinda glitchy to me.

WDing isn't a glitch b/c it doesn't violate the physics of the game, rather it directly abides by them.

How? Simple. Look at any real-life situation: When an object is forced into a surface at a downward angle, its momentum combined with gravity propel it along the surface for as long as the traction between the object and the surface alow it to go. Apply the same fundamental rule to WDing, and you have an exploitation, not a glitch.

Not only that, but WDing also results differently in direct proportion to the physics engine in Melee; every character's WD is different depending on their stats (weight, traction, ect), further supporting the fact that WDing is not a malfunction and therefore not a glitch.

 

[S P I K E]

Boy... last time I suggested this idea I got flamed. They didn't intend it to be used so often anyways.

 

[susu_atari]

Considering that Brawl will be using a different engine, I doubt the same rules will apply. Also, it's been said that Sakurai has a team of pro testers helping him. You've got to take into consideration the fact that game designers are artists, Sakurai is a designer with a particularly keen eye on attention to detail. When these assumptions are taken into consideration, you can bet that Sakurai is doing everything he can to ensure nothing gets into the game that isn't intended to be in there.

This time around, though, he may intend wavedashing to be in, we just don't know...

Also, just to clarify to those that seem to think wavedashing will be in, simply because it's a by-product of the code which cannot be controlled, wavedashing CAN be removed. In game design, what can be done is LITERALLY LIMITLESS. You CAN do anything you want, do not forget this.

 

[Team Giza]

Sakurai has also been known to purposely keep in glitches in sequels to him game and make them more fined tuned. We saw it from SSB64 to Melee (Z/L cancel) and we saw it throughout many of the Kirby games as well (go through ground stuff became part of the game, though changed a lot. Also the duel power glitch became a mixture move).

 

[Chromeless]

Well, when it comes to the wavedash, I'm fairly sure they're going to leave it in, my fear/worry is that they'll somehow make it more official, which may impact the use of wavedashing. By official I mean hopefully there's not a recognition system where it reads what you're doing a performs a wavedash for you, to the point where it becomes like a short roll dodge, or something of that nature. The main reason I find wavedashing useful is because it is such a unique movement, you can control how far, how fast, etc. So to make it a set move would be a shame.

If anything they would give you more freedom to alter the properties of a wavedash, there is no fundamental reason why properly incorperating it would 'restrict' the move to a single discrete state. I mean after all, there are plenty of 'official' moves that allow you to significantly alter their properties. Hopefully you will be able to control the time spend in a WD as a function of the change in speed, so the less distance you cover the less time you spend in the WD psudo-state.

I'm also betting that the WD would be much easier to pull off in Brawl, as they can simply program it so that pressing jump and shield/dodge at the same time will preform it from the ground, that way people won't have to worry about timing each character's WD or having to direct the control stick diagonally. Furthermore, the controler options would likely allow you to assign it to a single button if you so desire.

 

[garbage]

I'm willing to bet they just apply some sort of unavoidable lag after an air-dodge to the ground.

 

[_Phloat_]

They will have to work to take it out, or remove Airdodging completely. It is there because without it, the airdodges physics would take you through the floor of the stage for a death.

 

[SiD]

They will have to work to take it out, or remove Airdodging completely. It is there because without it, the airdodges physics would take you through the floor of the stage for a death.

...or you could just stop when you airdodge into the ground. But that's not possible to program.

*rolls eyes*

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

ENOUGH! I DON'T EVEN CARE ANYMORE!

Seriously! When will these topics END?! I used to hate WDing, now I don't even give a

Spoiler

****!!!

 

[Kentalish]

Qq Wait Till The Game Comes Out To Assume Anything

 

[Igneous42]

It has nothing to do with the remote, it's an exploitation of the Physics.

Yeah. It has nothing to do with using the games controller it has to do with the games physics.

Brawl is not Melee .5 it's a new game using a new game play engine. It's physics will be different, so it is possible it will be removed. But nothing is certain.

 

[Team Giza]

Besides if Nintendo was going to make wavedashing on purpose then wouldn't they have put something in about wavedashing in the manual?

Using the hookshot to recover isn't in the manual either... it must of been a mistake! Woah... Pichu isn't in the manual either? ... he must be a glitch! Wait... fast falling isn't in the manual either even though in SSB64 they had a star show up when you did it... but it isn't in the manual... must also be a glitch!

 

[NES n00b]

I think that wavedashing is a glitch and that all people using wavedashing to win are just nerds with no life who think they are good in a videogame. Using glitches does not take skill and ruins the game.

I play this game for FUN do you all know what that means?!?!?!?!?! All the fun is sucked out of the game with this broken tatic and other glitches. If you all need a glitch to make you feel better, then you are a *****.

 

[Team Giza]

Oh noes someone hasn't read Sirlin. Heres the thing, man. The only reason these tactics seem broken to you is because... well... to put it pretty simply... you are not good at the game. The difference is not that we good players don't have lives. The difference is we pay attention to exactly what we do when we play and we correct the errors we see in our playstyle over time. Using stuff like wavedashing correctly does take skill, it takes the same amount of skill and short hopping and aerial at the perfect moment so you completely out prioritize your opponent. The thing that separates us from people like you is that we pay attention to what we are doing when we play and are not limited... we will play with whatever the game can give us to make it more fun and more intense. Our matches are really hyped... how are yours?

 

[NES n00b]

I was being sarcastic. >.>

I was wondering if anyone would take me seriously. lol

Edit: Sorry for the confusion. I am going to use I wrote that post late at night john.

 

[Team Giza]

well there are people who say stuff like that on these boards and finish it off with smilies so its hard to tell the difference. I was considering not posting it when I saw that you had posted in regionals before... but I thought... whatevers.

 

[NES n00b]

well there are people who say stuff like that on these boards and finish it off with smilies so its hard to tell the difference. I was considering not posting it when I saw that you had posted in regionals before... but I thought... whatevers.

I did a good job of pretending to be the average scrub didn't I? I was wondering if the smilies would be enough to show sarcasm.

 

[red stone]

...or you could just stop when you airdodge into the ground. But that's not possible to program.

*rolls eyes*

where does the momentum go though if you go at an angle? that would be like seeing a plane stop abruptly as soon as it touches the ground without rolling

 

[Team Giza]

where does the momentum go though if you go at an angle? that would be like seeing a plane stop abruptly as soon as it touches the ground without rolling

So? It can still be done and it is an easy fix for wavedashing... or you know they could just let you slide on the floor and stay in the airdodge animation and then when it ends you actually land.

I did a good job of pretending to be the average scrub didn't I? I was wondering if the smilies would be enough to show sarcasm.

The only way to be truly sure its sarcasm here is by using [/sarcasm]

 

[NES n00b]

So? It can still be done and it is an easy fix for wavedashing... or you know they could just let you slide on the floor and stay in the airdodge animation and then when it ends you actually land.

Yeah, or they could make all wavedashes really short. Let's just hope that Nintendo keeps in for the sake of the competative players as it does not affect the casuals that much.

The only way to be truly sure its sarcasm here is by using [/sarcasm]

I didn't want to use that.

While on the subject of scrubs, the good thing about having limited connection is that I won't have to hear whining of me cheating.

Edit: Aniki dun need wavedash and neither do I.

 

[red stone]

whatever, i'm almost sure it's in. it'd be even more trouble to take it out than to just leave it alone. it's win win because everybody (cept nubs and people who choose not to use it) loves wavedashing anyways

 

[NES n00b]

whatever, i'm almost sure it's in. it'd be even more trouble to take it out than to just leave it alone. it's win win because everybody (cept nubs and people who choose not to use it) loves wavedashing anyways

That's how i feel, too. You keep the competative audience while keeping the joe gamer, casual, and new gamer audience. There are very few people who don't like wavedashing. It might be because of ignorance but that doesn't matter.

 

[Conformal_Invariance]

I have tinkered with the spacing/evasion/occasionally-goofy-looking technique, the Wavedash.

I have also seen how players utilize this.

If it were removed, I think it would cause somewhat of a slowdown... somewhat.

I do see more of those SHFFL's or whathaveyou being utilized much more.

It would force a somewhat slower game in the aspect that spacing would be a little trickier to get.

At least, that's what I think.

Besides, who knows what they've done with the physics?

Though I find it likely that what I've said might've already been mentioned...

 

[Xanderous]

Sarcasm is used in literature all the time. It's not the writer's fault if you can't handle it.

 

[GreenKirby]

 

[Girl]

Like im sure someone has said before, it depends if they keep aerial dodging and dashing. Dashing I am pretty sure with remain. As for aerial dodging, who knows (probably in). Also, if these two parts are in, the physics engine would have to be very similar, if not the same as Melee. We mus wait and see

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Hmm well my standpoint on the whole issue is that its about 99% sure that airdodging is in (judging from some screenshots (OFFICIAL SCREENSHOTS). Sliding is also a part of brawl, as we've seen in the trailers wario, and mario seem to be wavelanding at certain points.

My theory is that you will slide when you hit the ground with horizontal momentum, and that if airdodging is still in the game, it will continue to serve as a means of creating this horizontal... diagonal momentum, thus giving us instant sliding or ''wavedashing''

Wavelanding, or some form of it is already in the game, watch the trailers in slow mo if you think im yanking your chain.

In or out, wavedashing isnt going to be the technique thatll change the game completly, we have to see how shffling works since shffling is the basis of the metgame of most of the best characters in melee from fox to falcon to sheik.

I hope wavedashing is in though, its really good for fast spacing, edgehogging, and screwing with your opponents head, making him miss a grab or a smash. Dunno, pretty good technique overall, anyone who wants it removed around here usually has a childish reason behind it because there is honnestly no reason to remove a perfectly good technique like the WD, or the spotdodge.

As for aerial dodging, who knows

Not quite, pikachu air dodges in the trailer, and also :

Mario is airdodging here ^^^^

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Am I the only one that thinks WD topics are really boring and tedious?

Nobody will know till the game is out.

The End.

 

[S P I K E]

Am I the only one that thinks WD topics are really boring and tedious?

Nobody will know till the game is out.

The End.

You're boring and tedious. The End.

 

[gnosis]

If wavedashing was removed, I'd be sad for a while, but if it was removed in a way that eliminated wave landing, then I'd be really sad.

Cuz wave landing is where it's really at.

 

[FadedImage]

Furthermore, the controler options would likely allow you to assign it to a single button if you so desire.

That's what scares me the most. It's going to be so official, AKA easy to perform, it will no longer be a distinguishing characteristic between the good, and the not so good. The mastery of movement involved with the wavedash will become easily accessible, thus shrinking the skill curve. It would be like making a SHFFL one button, it would just be sad to see.

 

[Mandalore]

I don't think wavedashing matters that much. All it'll do is make competitive battles go a bit slower and have less for noobs to shout about. I don't doubt that someone will discover a new way to abuse the game mechanics. I'll just lose a bit of mobility with Mewtwo and Luigi, so it doesn't matter to me.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

You're boring and tedious. The End.

Erm.. Nice comeback?

 

[blazedaces]

That's what scares me the most. It's going to be so official, AKA easy to perform, it will no longer be a distinguishing characteristic between the good, and the not so good. The mastery of movement involved with the wavedash will become easily accessible, thus shrinking the skill curve. It would be like making a SHFFL one button, it would just be sad to see.

Ya but think about this for a second. If it were just a button there would be almost no way of controlling it as we can now (how far you wavedash depends slightly on the angle at which you airdodge, how much down, how much along...).

I think this will be enough to distinguish the good and not so good. But still, you've got quite a point there...

-blazed