wave dashin in brawl

[Sporkman]

One last thing, I defy ANY of you to PROVE to me that they knew about WD before the game released. If any of you can link me to CONCRETE PROOF, I don't want some quote on a board either, I want real evidence.

Your concrete proof is Smash Bros. Melee itself. If the developers hadn't known about doing an air dodge into the ground and the effects of it BEFORE the game was released, then you wouldnt get those little bits of dust fly up around your characters heels.
It's all you need to realize really.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Sorry, but saying, "So yes, I do know what they're opinion on wavedashing is." with no actual source information before that statement is pretty ******** of you.

Hey there mr hypocrite, I didn't say that. Don't ****ing put words in my mouth. If I had actually said it you could have properly quoted me, but you didn't I didn't.....hmm I wonder if there is a reason for that. Read the context you ****ing ****, it was in relation to the understanding of game design.

 

[Bones0]

^Good point. I dont have any proof but this is how I think it happened. Nintendo/HAL was going along making the game and created the physics so if you hit the ground at a 45 degree angle you would slide. They probably first found out on a hill like the top wing of Corneria or the Yoshi Island stage with the 2 hills on each side. It would be a miracle for no one to find that if you airdodged left or right into them that you would slide. Common sense would then lead them to believe that air dodging 45 degrees into a flat area would also make them slide. While not intended at first, they figured it wasn't gamebreaking in the least and left it in.

Point of what I'm saying is, the possibility of Nintendo overlooking the fact you can slide on command on the ground is so small they had to have known about it. I can't wait til Brawl finally comes out and they have WDing in the manual and How To Play video. Not just to shut up noobs complaining about it being cheating, but to make it available to EVERYONE, not just users who go on the internet to talk about smash. It made the game more fun for me even though I only play computers so imagine a younger kid's delight when he can finally WD correctly. Then he might even learn to edgeguard with it or other tactics. It would kind of open up the game more to everyone which is good because it will be online.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Your concrete proof is Smash Bros. Melee itself. If the developers hadn't known about doing an air dodge into the ground and the effects of it BEFORE the game was released, then you wouldnt get those little bits of dust fly up around your characters heels.
It's all you need to realize really.

Dust is part of the landing animation, no matter what you do there is dust, there is more dust from the sliding, essentially the same as when you run in a certain direction then turn the opposite way.

Btw, I just found something that started this whole flame war, and I have to admit that I am to blame. In my first post I said that "Nintendo didn't WANT it in". My apologies for that, I intended to say that they didn't mean for it to be in, I'm very sorry I missed that you guys. However there was no reason to freak out like that, one of the major reasons I posted was to see what everyone here (since most of you seem like tech players) thought about the possibility of glitches/exploits online, and how you think Nintendo would deal with them.

 

[S P I K E]

They certainly did know about this, and as previously stated, why would there by dust flying up if they did not know of it? They didn't plan for it to be used as an actual technique. It was simply added in as a means to stop another glitch. If they did not add this in, the momentum of the air dodge would carry them through the stage. It was a series of if statements applying this effect, of carrying their momentum into a sliding animation so as to keep the game physics fluent. It was only meant to stop characters from air dodging through the stage or platforms when they didn't mean to. Yes it is a manipulation of movement, but it is also a prevention of a much worse glitch. Suppose they thought the lesser of two evils? =)

Thanks... And just to mention, many of your posts are unhelpful and a waste of bandwidth, and many of you should be reported. No offence or anything. =)

 

[Bones0]

Fine, go email Nintendo with this:
"For Super Smash Bros. Melee, was the sliding that occurs from air dodging into the ground (aka Wave Dashing) a glitch or was it known prior to the game's release? Any information would be helpful, thanks."

 

[Zombie Cola]

The physics in this game aren't so bad that it would have carried you through a physical object.......

 

[Dr.Feelgood]

I agree with that one person who said that we should just wait and see if it IS or if it IS NOT in Brawl..and if it is then Great! for thos who use it...and if it isnt then oh freaken well. we will just have to learn how to deal with it thats all..its not that big of a deal..yeah i'm sure it will effect peoples gameplay and how they play, and i would be pretty bumbed if it was removed. and i'm sure alot of you would too....but lets be reasonable here..... Its ...Just.... A....Game.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

I doubt they realised that it could be used in the waywe now use it, they dust comes up because of the friction characters make like when they start running or skid, I really don't think any of this is really going to affect whether it's in brawl as it'll just be a random decision by them.

 

[S P I K E]

Zombie... If you'd like to debate physics with me, sure. Tell me... what stops an air dodge from going through a solid object? Hmmm? A solid ground, tell me. What does the animation tell you? It is an animation we call wavelanding. If it's at an angle, the momentum carries you through a slide, rather than through the stage. Easy enough to explain... And for those who were flaming h1roshi, he didn't mention 2:19 where Mario rolls now did he? He mentions 3:22...

If it was a wave dash it was to a minimum, it looked like it was just momentum carried from link's arrow hitting him, holding him back while he was moving towards Link... or something of that sort though.

 

[Bones0]

The physics in this game aren't so bad that it would have carried you through a physical object.......

Only because the sliding animation known as Wave dashing...



And for some, it really isn't "just a game". It's more of a hobby for most competitive smashers and there are plenty of things we could say the same for. "it's just school", "it's just your family", "it's just your pride"... >_> You can give up a lot of those things easily but it usually is for the worse.

 

[S P I K E]

Very very sorry to double post... my first ever. =(..... but anywho, I meant to type 2:22

My edit button does not work on this computer... Sadly enough.

 

[SiegK]

I was going to say this but noticed somone else beat me to it... but yeah the programmers DEFINITELY found out about wavedashing before the game's release and they decided to keep it in the game... moron.

Im pretty sure they didnt know about wavedashing b4 the game was sent out. It was just one of those 'glitches' in the frames that someone or a group of gamers found out while they were bored or on accident just as other non ethical moves where discovered. For example, L-Canceling speeds up the frames and wavedashing skips frames into a whole different friction not intended. But then again maybe it was intended. NOBODY F***ING KNOWS!!! So, we all know what it is and how the engine has rearranged different frames for different unexpected button combinations. Yes, if it is a glitch. Maybe they did know about it and kept it in anyway or maybe some kid found it out and made it public. All I know, ALL ANYONE knows, seeing how None of you people work for Nintendo from what Ive heard, is what it is and that its hear. yes, it would be easy to fix in braw if it wasnt discovered but I guess we'll all just have to stop the bi*ching and wait for Braw to find out! oy vey this had been covered SO SO SO many times already. Its over. Right?
(BTW, I <3 wavedashing)

 

[Bones0]

Im pretty sure they didnt know about wavedashing b4 the game was sent out. It was just one of those 'glitches' in the frames that someone or a group of gamers found out while they were bored or on accident just as other non ethical moves where discovered.

You need to provide reasoning or explanations of how you came to those conclusions. Otherwise, like it or not, it's just a bunch of hub-bub. I'm not saying you're wrong but it's just the way it works. Without proof you can only theorize.

For example, L-Canceling speeds up the frames and wavedashing skips frames into a whole different friction not intended. But then again maybe it was intended. NOBODY F***ING KNOWS!!!

Actually, Nintendo knows which is why I think we should email them. I've never seen any proof them calling it cheating or unintended even so until then, Ill go with the "innocent until proven guilty" phrase.

So, we all know what it is and how the engine has rearranged different frames for different unexpected button combinations. Yes, if it is a glitch. Maybe they did know about it and kept it in anyway or maybe some kid found it out and made it public. All I know, ALL ANYONE knows, seeing how None of you people work for Nintendo from what Ive heard, is what it is and that its hear. yes, it would be easy to fix in braw if it wasnt discovered but I guess we'll all just have to stop the bi*ching and wait for Braw to find out! oy vey this had been covered SO SO SO many times already. Its over. Right?
(BTW, I <3 wavedashing)

Agreed, I don't think we'll ever know if it was intentional. Unless they come out and say something that is. If it is in Brawl, that just shows they wanted it in. It implies but doesn't prove they put it in SSBM on purpose. If it is NOT in Brawl, that just shows they decided it'd be better to leave it out.

 

[S P I K E]

SiegK.... Quick question... Who are you? Really. =P Mr. I have a whole 10 posts. =)
Go get an AR, test it out, and get back to us. Show us significant and relevant proof that wavedashing was not known by the programmers and debuggers. Then I'll stop debating with you and raise your reputation or something. I've shown my reasoning why I believe that wavedashing was intended to be in the game physics, but not, for a word, abused as it is. Which to repeat, is to carry momentum from air dodges into a sliding animation and not through platforms or solid stages. Get back to me.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Your hitbox stops you from going throigh a solid object..... a platform a ledge.....you think animations are what keeps a character from falling through the earth? Explain your idea and maybe I will understand, don't get so cynical with me. I made a God**** statement, so don't get your panties in a bunch.

 

[Bones0]

That doesnt change a thing, the animation is attatched to the hitbox and if your hitbox tries to go down when there is something solid there, it has to do something. Your hitbox slides too. I figured that was a given...

 

[Zombie Cola]

The dust that comes up from you hitting the ground is an animation, it is an extra detail added on when the game detects the hitbox of a character colliding with a solid object. Bones your statement makes no sense, you have no clue what you are talking about, I absolutely guarantee that. I tried to make amends, I really wanted to get along and get your opinions, but it is obviously not going to happen. I honestly don't think that some of you understand the different parts of a game and I can clearly tell that bones is one of them, so please refrain from posting obnoxious nonsensical remarks.

 

[S P I K E]

Bones, it's okay, there is just no reasoning with some people... Either way, to your comment about me being upset? I'm laughing at you, just thought I'd let you know. By your statement there... Your hitbox stops you from going through solid objects? Then why can you fall through platforms? Your hitbox should stop you shouldn't it? Wow.... Dumb programmers must not know what they're doing huh? But wait! airdodging doesn't send you through objects... Amazing!!!

 

[Coo_Too_Tim]

There are some levels that you go through the stage when hit at a certain angle, such as pokemon stadium. When you hit the burning tree, your hitbox doesn't stop you there.

 

[Zombie Cola]

You'll notice that to go through a platform you have to input a command. You push down to go through platforms, you don't just fall through them.

 

[S P I K E]

Oh and to make my statement a little more general, yes airdodging can send you through platforms and certain stages at an upward angle, otherwise, no.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Interesting, because you can jump through them, but landing doesn't push you through them....once again, it's a command.

 

[Bones0]

Zombie Cola, your statement makes no sense, you have no clue what you are talking about, I absolutely guarantee that. I tried to make amends, I really wanted to get along and get your opinions, but it is obviously not going to happen. I honestly don't think that some of you understand the different parts of a game and I can clearly tell that Zombie Cola is one of them, so please refrain from posting obnoxious nonsensical remarks.

Look at me, I can type baseless insults and criticisms in order to dance around the fact I'm not addressing the other peoples' points! WHEEEEE!!!


Also, you CAN just drop through platforms without landing. You can fall right through them...

 

[Zombie Cola]

I addressed your points just fine, they don't make sense. You have no points, you just leech off other peoples posts and agree with them. You don't understand this, it is so obvious, have you had ANY formal training in the development of software? I'm serious and don't ****ing bull**** me either.

 

[Bones0]

No, Ive never had any software training but I know if something makes sense or not. It would make sense that instead of going through the ground, you would hit the ground. Right? So if you hit the ground at an angle, to make it more realistic or something I guess, Nintendo made it so you slide on the ground. What are we even arguing over anymore? >_>

 

[Zombie Cola]

Hell if I know, I tried to stop it earlier and pose a new question. But someone kept arguing so I retaliated, I'd be happy to move on with the discussion.

 

[cF=)]

rofl rofl jugding a french canadian's english when it's clearly not my mother tongue. Not really surprised your building paragraphs off other people's attack instead of debating your point.

"Bring me articles, scans, proofs" is what you've been telling while your arguments arn't backed up by any solid evidence. Nobody will believe a noob among thousands of noobs who join this forum everyday, having problem with advanced techniques and bull****ting their thoughts about how it's unfair to press an additional button to LAG-cancel (because L doesn't stand for the left trigger, I don't remember who was the ******* who said "R-cancel").

And how silly and cocky can a newcomer be by saying he doesn't want any link to smashboads thread ? Arn't you actually aware advanced techniques and most of today's smash knowledge comes from here ? Don't you know that by browsing these pages, you unleash years and years of research about this game ? If theres anywhere you should gather smash info, it's here so listen up kid, you got nothing to teach about this game to anybody.

 

[S P I K E]

cF=) Just own't... End of discussion. You can clearly see that it is intended in the developers mode. There is my solid proof. And Zombie Cola, the developing and programming training I have had are based in MS-DOS(C++), and Java, thats about the extent of it though.

 

[Zombie Cola]

First, don't call me kid, I'm older than you,

Second, don't call me a noob, you don't even have a full year on me as far as this board is concerned and you haven't a clue as to the extent of my Smash play.

Thirdly

And how silly and cocky can a newcomer be by saying he doesn't want any link to smashboads thread ? sQUOTE] WHAT THE **** DOES THAT MEAN?! Seriously, I made one grammatical error and you flame me for it, when your dumb canadian *** can't get spelling, grammar or punctuation even remotely close to what it should be.

Fourthly, don't call me kid.


Now spike, where in developers mode can you see that it is supposed to be there? I have seen no evidence of such, and I really would like to. Oh, and this discussion is far from over little man.

 

[SiegK]

SiegK.... Quick question... Who are you? Really. =P Mr. I have a whole 10 posts. =)

Wow. Question, how immature was that. I mean Lol. SO I have a lil over 10 points, does my SmashBoard rank really constitute for my knowledge of the game. And if you really think so, then your a pretty sad individual. Or just some punk lil kid who likes to talk alot. Also, wavedashing aside cheating or not not taking sides at the moment. AR is chearting. So until you can prove your theories in the real game, then your just an annoying lil kid talking off everyone elses theories and restating everything that has already been said. Good day to you, sir.

 

[Arj]

Since I don't feel like seeding through countless pages of *********** hopefully you can address my post now Zombie Cola, since you seem to respond fairly quickly.

Considering they openly stated that it was a form of cheating and that it wasn't meant to be in....... You have no idea what it takes or how to make a game, it's (one again) an EXPLOITATION OF THE PHYSICS ENGINE! You are a child, flaming and calling names because you have a different (and incorrect) opinion. So yes, I do know what they're opinion on wavedashing is. Btw, you have the single worst sig. on this board.......

You made that up, they never said it was a form of cheating, if they did I'd like a link or a reference to an article, if you don't have one I suggest you stop pulling made up information out of your ***.

* You addressed my second paragraph by retracting the statement in question *.

It's not the fact you are against WDing as I really don't care about Brawl at all, it's just that you continue to make up ****.

 

[SiegK]

Since I don't feel like seeding through countless pages of *********** hopefully you can address my post now Zombie Cola, since you seem to respond fairly quickly.



You made that up, they never said it was a form of cheating, if they did I'd like a link or a reference to an article, if you don't have one I suggest you stop pulling made up information out of your ***.

* You addressed my second paragraph by retracting the statement in question *.

It's not the fact you are against WDing as I really don't care about Brawl at all, it's just that you continue to make up ****.

Ok Ok. Every1 please just ignore this post, exept for Zombi, go ahead and read it. but please no1 comment on it, we will just be back tracking our argument and restating everything again. So... Srj, thank you for ur comment on Zombi. Now lets move on. Anyone wanna B**ch at my last comment so I can B**ch back? or are we done? Lolz.

 

[Ironclad]

All this discussion of whether it's a "glitch", or "exploit", or "cheat", is completely pointless. Here are the facts:

- In case you didn't know, there are multiple versions of SSBM. Between each version are several minor differences, such as balance changes and bug removals. Samus' extended grapple and Bowser's flame cancel are two examples of things that were removed from later releases of the game. If Hal didn't know about wavedashing before the game's release, they almost certainly would've learned of it later, and yet despite all the other "fixes" in subsequent versions, wavedashing was left in.

- Wavedashing is a large part of the reason for this game's depth. If they remove wavedashing, they will lose a large part of their fanbase, the tournament players, while the removal of wavedashing is not likely to attract any new players to the game. Therefore, Hal has nothing to gain by removing wavedashing.

It is for these reasons that I believe wavedashing has a very good chance of reappearing in SSBB. In any case, nobody can possibly know for sure at this point, and in fact, Hal themselves might still be debating the issue, since the game is a long way off. Nobody can claim that they know whether or not wavedashing will be in SSBB. You can, as I did, state reasons why they should or should not include it, or why you think they will or will not include it, but ultimately these are nothing more than opinions.

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Considering they openly stated that it was a form of cheating and that it wasn't meant to be in....... You have no idea what it takes or how to make a game, it's (one again) an EXPLOITATION OF THE PHYSICS ENGINE! You are a child, flaming and calling names because you have a different (and incorrect) opinion. So yes, I do know what they're opinion on wavedashing is. Btw, you have the single worst sig. on this board.......

Wow, do you have infinite dumb points or something?

There, are you happy? There's your direct quote, since you somehow didn't believe you actually said that.

 

[SiegK]

Basically. Ironclad, thank you. Lol
Luigi Ka-Master...SHUT UP MAN, Just shut up. omg. its over with, let it be. Sheesh.

 

[Deathreaver780]

wow. omg why is everyone STILL fighting? zombie said srry for saying it wrong stop the D*** fighting and flaming...... now could someone shut this down be4 someone starts another fight!!!??? btw how do i look at what someone put if they gave me rep?

 

[PudgeSX]

:starts the slow clap for ironclad:

perfectly said and should be the end to this discussion/flame war.

 

[Sol]

Brawl is gonna be way different the melee so i doubt they'll have wd cause they didn't intend to put it in melee

 

[Deathreaver780]

omg when will u get it right!! if it was there they would have known and they kept it in so its prolly gonna be in brawl!(not 2 start a fight)