Lord Chair
Smash Master
uair is super fast and sideb is a strong momentum cancel
's why
's why
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Wario's Match-Ups!
- Thread starter xzx
- Start date
*Cam*
Smash Lord
I don't think Wario has a solid approach on Pikachu. Whenever I play Reflex, he just threatens the area around me and waits for me to over-extend so he can punish it.
Also, if Pikachu is going to use his fast run speed to get in on Wario, you can throw a few bites and even fsmashes out. I know it makes me think twice.
Pikachu's thunder jolts have a lot of end lag on them, so you can usually get a free punish if you avoid them and get under him.
Also, if Pikachu is going to use his fast run speed to get in on Wario, you can throw a few bites and even fsmashes out. I know it makes me think twice.
Pikachu's thunder jolts have a lot of end lag on them, so you can usually get a free punish if you avoid them and get under him.
Labernash
Smash Lord
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The only thing I can usually bank on, is N-Air. I tend to be pokier, but sometimes I just drop down on top or chase with a N-air. The second hitbox fools people sometimes. Other than that, Wario is just gonna be Wario, and watch Pika mess up.
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
that halberd CG thing u were talkin bout actually works on wario on any platform thin enough
so the edges of bf platforms, halberd... yeah u get the idea
so the edges of bf platforms, halberd... yeah u get the idea
Cassio
Smash Master
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- 3,185
Ya'll seem to have this on lockdown, but Ill add some notes
-Pikas uair has 3 frames on start up and is FAF 28, the third quickest aerial in the game. It covers a ranged semi-circle around him and has four different hitboxes that tend to conveniently knock the opponent into position for a follow up. The one wario likely needs to worry about most is the last one that covers in front of pika and knocks the opponent into him. Its able to outrange and clip warios attacks so be extremely wary of this move.
-Bite is an extremely useful tool in this MU
-Pika will make use of his uair, fair, utilt, and up-angled ftilt to space and bat away at warios approaches. Its one of pikas most (if not most) important MUs with regards to good spacing.
-Both characters are capable of fluke early kills. Both are comparable in capability of landing a kill move. However pikachus kill moves kill about 30%-40% later.
A pikachu thats proficient at spacing should be able to accumulate more damage on wario than the reverse, but Wario also dies later. A pikachu that moves to kill wario earlier than 150ish will likely find themselves flusstered and placed in unnecessary risk. Theres more to this MU, but it looks like people here know what theyre talking about. In perfect play I could see this as very slight pika advantage, but Im much more inclined to call this even.
-Pikas uair has 3 frames on start up and is FAF 28, the third quickest aerial in the game. It covers a ranged semi-circle around him and has four different hitboxes that tend to conveniently knock the opponent into position for a follow up. The one wario likely needs to worry about most is the last one that covers in front of pika and knocks the opponent into him. Its able to outrange and clip warios attacks so be extremely wary of this move.
-Bite is an extremely useful tool in this MU
-Pika will make use of his uair, fair, utilt, and up-angled ftilt to space and bat away at warios approaches. Its one of pikas most (if not most) important MUs with regards to good spacing.
-Both characters are capable of fluke early kills. Both are comparable in capability of landing a kill move. However pikachus kill moves kill about 30%-40% later.
A pikachu thats proficient at spacing should be able to accumulate more damage on wario than the reverse, but Wario also dies later. A pikachu that moves to kill wario earlier than 150ish will likely find themselves flusstered and placed in unnecessary risk. Theres more to this MU, but it looks like people here know what theyre talking about. In perfect play I could see this as very slight pika advantage, but Im much more inclined to call this even.
BPx
Smash Lord
you guys are silly wario beats pikachu like 60:50
Lord Chair: 0
*Cam*: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
Sensei Seibrik: -1/0 (decide!)
Labernash: +1
Croi: 0
xzx: 0
Cassio: 0
@Sensei Seibrik: So Pikachu's CG works on any platform? Ok, not moving platforms but still. Wow, one should never be on the same platform as Pikachu then.
I also find that Wario's d-tilt is a good move against Pikachu, just like against Olimar.
*Cam*: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
Sensei Seibrik: -1/0 (decide!)
Labernash: +1
Croi: 0
xzx: 0
Cassio: 0
@Sensei Seibrik: So Pikachu's CG works on any platform? Ok, not moving platforms but still. Wow, one should never be on the same platform as Pikachu then.
I also find that Wario's d-tilt is a good move against Pikachu, just like against Olimar.
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
well it works on any platform, but it has to be at the very very edge of either side of the platform, its fairly avoidable
u just have to be aware of it, and never challange the situation
annnnnd...
i guess i'll go with even and accept Esam is prolly just outplaying me.
u just have to be aware of it, and never challange the situation
annnnnd...
i guess i'll go with even and accept Esam is prolly just outplaying me.
110%*You're silly Brandon. That equals 105%
C'mooon
@topic: uhm ive never played against a good pikachu, so i dont have an opinion about this mu
Coming from Grand Master SC2 nerd **** "watch me 2 hill barracks into mass marines and viking rush" ain't even Korean Pro status mother ****er
OH WAIT YOU'RE IN MASTERS MY BAD DAWG I ALMOST GAVE YOU CREDIT
WARIO WIIIINS! *WAH-WAH-WAH!*
OH WAIT YOU'RE IN MASTERS MY BAD DAWG I ALMOST GAVE YOU CREDIT
WARIO WIIIINS! *WAH-WAH-WAH!*
Lord Chair
Smash Master
that was enjoyable
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
A good match against Brick (Oregon Pikachu player)
The Wario/Pikachu matchup is extremely fun. Both characters are very nimble, with Pikachu probably taking the #1 spot between the two. Pika's spotdodge is very good, and he can use it and then quickly throw out another move to disrupt your attacks. Many of his aerials beat out Wario's in the air, so Wario has to weave in and out between attacks, a bit difficult but by no means impossible.
My favorite moves to use against Pikachu are definitely Nair, bite and Jab. Nair's 4 frame execution is extremely fast and gives Wario some much needed move-speed in the matchup; Pikachu's moves are on average much faster than Wario's. Nair can also lead into combos at low and mid percents, allowing for bigger damage combos and thus bringing the lil mouse that much closer to death. Wario's Jab has a good amount of range and priority, also leading into a grab fairly consistently. Bite punishes Pikachu for shielding (and his shield is a B!&@# to get through, it's really freaking good). It is very difficult to punish a lot of Pikachu's low lag moves, but if you read a shield then bite will be able to punish and score a little bit of damage. The more damage pikachu takes, the closer he is to death.
Tires in this matchup are fairly risky, with good rewards if you play it right. Pikachu can easily take control of the tires, and can use them very well to his advantage. Keep tires out of Pika's grip if possible, thus Wario's best options I believe arise from Wario's standing item Dthrow. Hitting Pikachu in the right spot can put him in a position where Fsmash or Waft will connect, both devastating KO moves in their own respect. Dthrow glide toss can also lead into Fsmash, Fart or grab and can be very deadly. You can even link Wario's Nair with a Dthrow glidetoss into a hit! Now that is innovation, folks.
Oh and Pikachu's thunder jolts are extremely annoying for Wario. It's hard to punish Pikachu whenever he camps, but most of Wario's aerials will destroy the T-jolts in midair safely. Happy hunting!
+0 between the two. Pikachu's chaingrab on the edge of platforms can be deadly if you are caught in it, but if you are aware of it then there is no reason to attack the mouse of he is in position for it. If he is camping in the chaingrab spot, simply just pull out your bike and acquire some tires! This will definitely get him moving.
The Wario/Pikachu matchup is extremely fun. Both characters are very nimble, with Pikachu probably taking the #1 spot between the two. Pika's spotdodge is very good, and he can use it and then quickly throw out another move to disrupt your attacks. Many of his aerials beat out Wario's in the air, so Wario has to weave in and out between attacks, a bit difficult but by no means impossible.
My favorite moves to use against Pikachu are definitely Nair, bite and Jab. Nair's 4 frame execution is extremely fast and gives Wario some much needed move-speed in the matchup; Pikachu's moves are on average much faster than Wario's. Nair can also lead into combos at low and mid percents, allowing for bigger damage combos and thus bringing the lil mouse that much closer to death. Wario's Jab has a good amount of range and priority, also leading into a grab fairly consistently. Bite punishes Pikachu for shielding (and his shield is a B!&@# to get through, it's really freaking good). It is very difficult to punish a lot of Pikachu's low lag moves, but if you read a shield then bite will be able to punish and score a little bit of damage. The more damage pikachu takes, the closer he is to death.
Tires in this matchup are fairly risky, with good rewards if you play it right. Pikachu can easily take control of the tires, and can use them very well to his advantage. Keep tires out of Pika's grip if possible, thus Wario's best options I believe arise from Wario's standing item Dthrow. Hitting Pikachu in the right spot can put him in a position where Fsmash or Waft will connect, both devastating KO moves in their own respect. Dthrow glide toss can also lead into Fsmash, Fart or grab and can be very deadly. You can even link Wario's Nair with a Dthrow glidetoss into a hit! Now that is innovation, folks.
Oh and Pikachu's thunder jolts are extremely annoying for Wario. It's hard to punish Pikachu whenever he camps, but most of Wario's aerials will destroy the T-jolts in midair safely. Happy hunting!
+0 between the two. Pikachu's chaingrab on the edge of platforms can be deadly if you are caught in it, but if you are aware of it then there is no reason to attack the mouse of he is in position for it. If he is camping in the chaingrab spot, simply just pull out your bike and acquire some tires! This will definitely get him moving.
personally i think this MU is even the good part is we got more killing power than pikachuuuu and dthrow to buffered dtilt 
yea it works on pikachu if im not mistaken it works till 50% or 60%. Pikachu camp is annoying and yea is kinda hard to hit , i suggest the use of bite ,nair and jabs. Thats all i can say for now i dont have too much exp on this MU
yea it works on pikachu if im not mistaken it works till 50% or 60%. Pikachu camp is annoying and yea is kinda hard to hit , i suggest the use of bite ,nair and jabs. Thats all i can say for now i dont have too much exp on this MU
Croi
Smash Lord
They're both pretty decent tbh.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
how does one compare frame data to range >.>
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
i don't like the COMBINATION of the two
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
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- 1,065
Like which one is tougher for Wario to deal with? I would probably say frame data (quickness), Wario is a teensy bit sluggish and it's really tough to fight against super quick characters like MK and Pikachu. Fortunately Pikachu doesn't have transcendent priority, a tornado or a shuttle loop so we can deal with it.
Yeah, I agree with you, Pwneroni! MK has both frame data and range (with the best priority) and it's really a pain in Wario's ***. Pikachu has frame data too but not as great as MK's; fortunately Pikachu don't have stupid range and priority.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
if you think pika doesnt have stupid range and priority, give his uair a try
that move alone beats everything we have besides stuff like fsmash and uair
that move alone beats everything we have besides stuff like fsmash and uair
U-Air does very little damage, and even in situations where it could combo to N-Air, it can be SDI'd to avoid the follow-up if you see it coming.
EDIT: Didn't realize we were talking about Zero Suit Samus.
I'll say +1 Wario. Zamus can do good thing to Wario if he hesitates, but staying mobile will prevent Zero Suit from getting much off of anything that isn't a good read. We do more damage and KO better, while neither character is very good at approaching the other. Camping for Waft isn't difficult as a result, and that makes a solid difference.
EDIT: Didn't realize we were talking about Zero Suit Samus.
I'll say +1 Wario. Zamus can do good thing to Wario if he hesitates, but staying mobile will prevent Zero Suit from getting much off of anything that isn't a good read. We do more damage and KO better, while neither character is very good at approaching the other. Camping for Waft isn't difficult as a result, and that makes a solid difference.
Croi
Smash Lord
Excepting her dair, don't her aerials eat ours for breakfast?
Her U-Air is very good, and N-Air can protect her from our general approach area decently well, but she has trouble landing KO moves compared to us. Her jumps are so high in general that her F-Air and B-Air are rarely applicable outside landing a D-Smash on us. We can harass her with pokes decently well if we manage to avoid things like pivot D-Smash and U-Air at least some of the time.
If she whiffs in the air, we get more out of a punish on average, and we get better mileage out of counterpick stages.
If she whiffs in the air, we get more out of a punish on average, and we get better mileage out of counterpick stages.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
ZSS will always be the one to commit harder than Wario. Your short hop height is ****ing perfect and farts are very very landable during recovery.
I guess slight favor Wario, but best player wins in the end.
or best fart.
I guess slight favor Wario, but best player wins in the end.
or best fart.
DrSoussou
Smash Journeyman
I would agree to Wario having a +1, and say that the difference in ability to KO is the most significant. ZSS is soooo light and mustached bikers are soooo fat and hard to hit in the air.
ぱみゅ
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Wario could just play safe and not getting hit by any significant attack, imo.
Maybe she could land a lot of Uairs, but if they stale, the MU can become a real pain, imo.
I won't try to input a ratio, just throwing two cents on the jar.
Maybe she could land a lot of Uairs, but if they stale, the MU can become a real pain, imo.
I won't try to input a ratio, just throwing two cents on the jar.
Getting grabbed hurts because it's a double d-smash + dash atk/aerial followup. Luckily for us ZSS has a terrible grab and you should not get grabbed unless the opponent makes a hard read. If you're not confident about using her armor pieces, just throw them away. Thanks to Warios great air mobility he does get some cool set-ups and does nice pressuring with the pieces. There is always the age-old d-throw from above to u-air on shield. I'd say that d-throwing ZSS is pretty good for you since she lacks quick OoS options in that state and her quickest option is her BACKROLL so be prepared for that (her forward roll is worse)
In this MU it is also crucial not to blindly double jump above her. You don't want to get hit by that U-air of hers. Watch our for that side-B as well. ZSS players love to throw it out since it demolishes short hop approach attempts. Just approach cautiously but once you get in, go hard !
MU ratio: I'd like to say that it's -1 for Wario but I'm being peer-pressured by everyone else so I'll say 0. One of the harder 0's tho.
In this MU it is also crucial not to blindly double jump above her. You don't want to get hit by that U-air of hers. Watch our for that side-B as well. ZSS players love to throw it out since it demolishes short hop approach attempts. Just approach cautiously but once you get in, go hard !
MU ratio: I'd like to say that it's -1 for Wario but I'm being peer-pressured by everyone else so I'll say 0. One of the harder 0's tho.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
+1 Wario.
Close to 0, but not quite there.
Close to 0, but not quite there.