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Video Thread: Now in Regular Definition!

bigman40

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Need serious critiques. This is vs Kismet (was getting advice from Ninjalink and him while playing).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRAejgU73dw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWc95sBaeAE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jjdkMrUEQM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFEzCVcEYhs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT3j3kB0GU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrms-h8EolU


Jile, when you add these, just list them as "vs. Kismet". He's the best playing in GA and that's extremely something to watch more than me playing with my normal groups.
 

Scarlet Jile

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If I didn't write M2K or ADHD's name, I don't think I'm going to add Kismet.

Nothing against the guy, but that's just not how the videos are arranged.
 

bigman40

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If I didn't write M2K or ADHD's name, I don't think I'm going to add Kismet.

Nothing against the guy, but that's just not how the videos are arranged.
Then that fine. Those matches mean much more to me than the rest I've posted on here so w/e.

Still though, I need serious critiques.
 

YOSHssb

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Got some that I've had posted for a week from last Hobo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GH3kpdrZcg (vs. Samus #1) <== Xyro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsww-zDm9Ko (vs. Samus #2) <== Xyro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMhkDzkabAY (vs. TL #1) <== HyrulianRoyalty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaWJhlSCdSI (vs. TL #2) <== HyrulianRoyalty

The matches vs. Hyro were my first matches EVER against a Toon Link player IRL, so I think I did fairly well against him for not knowing anything about the match up. If you guys have any tips for facing TLs in the future, let me know.


And at Bigz, you're probably aware, but I watched all 11 of your matches and commented on Youtube about them. If you wanna discuss them more directly, I might be able to say more about them on the Yoshi chat later.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Scat u play really linear for someone who uses so many tricks to throw people off. You also get caught in these weird ruts where ull take like more than 5 very easy to avoid hits in a row. Ill help u with that later.
U do some sick *** combos(2nd kill vs kismet, nuff said), and ur getting the egg lays down real nice =]

Idk what to say about urs yosh u seem pretty good, just placee better =)

Ill actually critique another time
 

Scarlet Jile

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So, made an update the first post today with some demarcated "recommended" videos. Let me know if you disagree, so I can laugh in your face and call you stupid.
 

auroreon

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Zudenka's yoshi is entertaining but no one I've seen in his videos knows how to deal with egg lay lol. He just seems to predictable throw it out and it works.
I would have to agree with this, I think he needs to work on and rely on the rest of his game more. Many of his egglays are very good, but he seems to rely on it too much when he should be exploring other options and when he does play someone who knows how to deal with it he will get punished a lot.
But that said, the matches against Marth are pretty good. Even if Ramin didn't know the MU very well.

The reason I think its so difficult to decide upon any videos for a 'Hall of Fame' is that (IMO) there are no videos that are exceptional. I have yet to see a video of Yoshi where I have been truly 'wowed', there are of course videos of Yoshis playing well, but I just don't believe that anyone has tapped into Yoshi's real potential yet. There is too much that isn't used and too many examples of getting punished for doing silly things.

When I watch most videos of Yoshi, I notice that the player is either relying solely on very basic play or they are throwing stuff out almost as a gimmick.

Btw, I think Scat's vids are the best out there.
 

Airborne

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So, made an update the first post today with some demarcated "recommended" videos. Let me know if you disagree, so I can laugh in your face and call you stupid.
I'm quite content with the list of recommended videos right now; I just think that we, as a whole, can supply better recommended videos (if only we, as a whole, can get those matches played and recorded... *sigh*)

Also, I think I might post this now, since Scatz got the music to finally stop skipping, and I just have to make a list explaining each individual "tech", which will either require it's own thread, or possibly be posted on the Banana/ Ledge Techs thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpo3QuIG2fo

A lot of them are no brainers, but it shows the different applications that one can learn from this position. Also, the footstool thing is hilarious, and I just kinda discovered it late one night. DI makes very little difference, and it's not character dependent; I just showed Fox because it's a potential 0-death. XD
 

Scarlet Jile

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Thanks Airborne, for one split second (just woke up) I didn't realize the buffered down-B was a slope-specific move, and I was ****ting. But even so, it's still cool.
 

Airborne

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Thanks Airborne, for one split second (just woke up) I didn't realize the buffered down-B was a slope-specific move, and I was ****ting. But even so, it's still cool.
Yeah, I wasn't sure what exactly to put, so I just put all of the general options out of the slide, and provided examples of ways to branch out with what we know we can do.

It's not as cool as the Japanese vids, but I felt it was still needed.
 

auroreon

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What are these 'Japanese vids' of which you speak?

EDIT: lol, there is a thread about them on the first page >.<
Please ignore my ignorance. It seems I have some more Yoshi techs to learn/incorperate this week.
 

Sharky

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lol yeah spotdodges and airdodges in general are my issue right now, I'm working on fixing it. This match was just lolz though XD
 

YOSHssb

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Hey guys, so I'm sure someone's already figured this out, but I haven't seen it before so I'm curious. If you do a down-B next to the ledge (like if you were going to try and grab it) and you immediately hit up on the directional stick before Yoshi spins around in the air, then he'll grab the edge instantly. Again, I'm sure someone's already found this, but if it's new, would anyone be willing to do some testing on it frame-wise to see if Yoshi is essentially invulnerable if you grab the edge, let go, jump, down-B cancel to grab on? I've got a video here of what I'm talking about. It's only 15 seconds so check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENICB2yqT1U

But yeah, if you can shed any kind of light on this, let me know.
 

bigman40

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I assume most of the Yoshi boards have already seen the two videos of the Japanese Yoshi, sisi, performing various tricks off of the ledge and with bananas. For reference, these are the two videos:

Ledge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM

L19. Drop, DJ+down B, C-stick up.
"If you input C-stick up immediately after down-B, you get a canceled down-B. You can also do it by hitting down-B and restoring the control stick back to its neutral position, 安定しないのでオススメ出来ません[but this is unreliable]. I considered cheating by setting C-stick to specials, but I worked on holding the controller differently."



With the Y-B-C-stick setup and with R set to jump, I found this quite doable if I repositioned my right hand with my middle finger on R, the side of my knuckle on my index finger on X, and my thumb on C-stick. I'd drop down, DJ with R, hit down-X (B) with my knuckle, and immediately hit up on the C-stick.
Hey guys, so I'm sure someone's already figured this out, but I haven't seen it before so I'm curious. If you do a down-B next to the ledge (like if you were going to try and grab it) and you immediately hit up on the directional stick before Yoshi spins around in the air, then he'll grab the edge instantly. Again, I'm sure someone's already found this, but if it's new, would anyone be willing to do some testing on it frame-wise to see if Yoshi is essentially invulnerable if you grab the edge, let go, jump, down-B cancel to grab on? I've got a video here of what I'm talking about. It's only 15 seconds so check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENICB2yqT1U

But yeah, if you can shed any kind of light on this, let me know.

Either do it that way or by making the control stick go back to neutral 1 frame after starting down-B. Haven't done any frame data due to no time, but it can make him just about invulnerable when done correctly I think (or at least close to it). It's be a planker's wish for Yoshi.


~Mieu
 

YOSHssb

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Either do it that way or by making the control stick go back to neutral 1 frame after starting down-B. Haven't done any frame data due to no time, but it can make him just about invulnerable when done correctly I think (or at least close to it). It's be a planker's wish for Yoshi.


~Mieu
Alright, cool. Are there any other implications for it other than grabbing the ledge instantly? Seems like if you're essentially canceling the down-B, then you could do something else (like another attack or something). I'm just wondering if it's something that I should consider picking up. It's very situational, definitely, but if I'm ever needing to grab the ledge instantly, it'd be a nice trick to know.
 

Slice~

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Fingerp@ss

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Slice I really like your yoshi, its one of like 3 yoshis that I can safetly say is quite solid.
That said, you do some stuff wrong :p

I like your forward airs, but honestly, you cannot be throwing that move out like that, especially against snake and diddy (who have the strongest out of shield games). Its a mixup but you were using it as if it was a yoshi staple.

You play really fast which is good, but sometimes you would be predictable with your spotdodges and you had trouble when that diddy slowed the pace down and you couldnt play your game like you wanted to (thats what it looked like to me).
You rush kills SOOOO much you could have taken games off the diddy if you just were content racking damage. He CLEARLY didnt rush his kills, as you were at 270%, and thats why he won.

I was really sad to see you lose to that snake, you were clearly better, you just dont play the matchup right at all. You use unsafe moves on shield, you don't camp at all (which will give you openings to go offensive), and some other stuff. The ledge is very useful in the matchup because snake really doesnt have any solid options against ECE besides PSing or running away.

Good job though =] Nice placing too, you could have taken 2nd imo if you had played the snake matchup a little more cautiously.


I hope you understand english enough to get this =P
 

~Firefly~

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No replies for me. D= I still think advice would be awesome, especially in these two matches:

I lost both of those, even though I beat both his Fox and his R.O.B. later on; our sets consist of him constantly CPing characters to keep me from getting used to his playstyle. I'd be great to know what it is I'm doing wrong in these matches so I can stop giving him those early matches.

Sorry for being pushy, but I always get something useful out of people critiquing me, and I want to do really well next time to make up for my mediocre performance at my last tourney.


:005:
 

YOSHssb

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Firefly, I watched the Fox matches against Bundtcake because I know the Fox matchup VERY VERY well, so I can offer some advice. Whenever you fight a Fox, you HAVE to keep the pressure on (similar to when you fight Samus). If you bide your time and camp, then the lasers will just slowly rack up damage. Eggs from long range are virtually useless in that matchup because of the reflector, and you should only use them when Fox is in the air or trying to recover.

On your first match the first life, he was DESPERATELY trying to kill you with that up-smash and you shouldn't let him. Fox is great at racking up damage, but when it comes to kill moves, his only reliable ones (without some set up) are up-smash and back-aerial. If you constantly watch out for those when you're around 95% and up (you can live a fully fresh up-smash at 110% if you DI it properly, but to be safe look out for it earlier). The other kill moves are his down-smash, up-aerial, and forward-aerial. The down-smash (like the up-smash) can be set up by a down-aerial.

I know I said earlier to keep the pressure on, but when you're at a high kill percentage yourself, get away so that you can rack up as much damage as you can because a few more laser hits doesn't matter at that point. The up-aerial is easy to see so that shouldn't be an issue. If you get caught in a forward aerial, smash DI down as if your life depended on it. If you do, then you can get out of the last hit (which is the one that has all the knock back and will kill you), and that also puts you in a great position to counter the ending lag of his move with an up-aerial.

If you get caught in an up-tilt spam at low percentage, jump out of it. You can get out on the second hit with the super armor and not take 50ish damage. If you grab a Fox player near the edge (see the thread about chaingrabbing Meta Knight and where you should be for the spike after the release grab is over) and you're near that magic spot, you can get a good gimp. If the Fox doesn't jump immediately, you get a spike, and I'm not sure on the percentage, but it doesn't take much before you can edge guard him after the spike and get the kill. If you think Fox is going to jump instead, you can do a rising neutral aerial and that'll hit him out of his jump. After this, most Fox players will do a side-B to get back on the stage because they'll be high enough. Try to wait as long as you can to see whether he'll go for the edge or go for the stage and go for the edge-guard or counterattack. If you read it quickly enough, you can run away and get a forward smash off, and if not, you can always do a short-hop neutral aerial. This ALWAYS at least clinks with the move and sometimes beats it if you get it out fast enough.

If you grab a Fox at low percentage in the middle of the stage, try an up-throw. Most Fox players will use the reflector to stall in the air and then counterattack with a down-aerial since they're right above you. You can do a short-hop up-aerial to knock them out of the reflector if you predict it, or you can wait for the down-aerial and pivot grab it. Keep in mind that this is situational and I'm just saying what happens most times. It all depends on the player, but try it out regardless.

As far as approaching goes, Fox LOVES to attack from the air, so you have to counter from the air if you're going to approach. Space your back-aerials and egg-lay to rack up the damage. If you get the egg-lay, you have a guaranteed up-smash if you hit the egg, and if you space it correctly, you can't be punished for it (some might argue with me on this, but if they want to test it, be my guest). As far as your kill moves, it goes back to Fox's kill moves. He'll try up-smash and back-aerial first. If you play away at high percentages, then he'll fall into trying to get a down-aerial so that he can get the up-smash or down-smash after it. Try to space this and you can get a forward smash on him if you can read him well.

Mostly the match is that, but a lot of it boils down to reading your opponent. Fox is extremely fast, but unlike Sonic, he can actually do SERIOUS damage to you and kill you early if you don't know what you're doing. Try out what I said next time you face one and good luck.
 

Slice~

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i understood everything, thanks for the critique socks ^^
i will keep these things in mind, sounds good to me
 

bigman40

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Firefly, stop throwing eggs when he's charging the laser. you took far too much chip damage from gyro and lasers while you were trying to get in or add damage while he's off stage. Also, trust Yoshi's shield more. He's not rendered helpless if you know how to use his shield correctly.

Slice, stop Dair chasing when the battle is still set on neutral. If that was Luigi, you'd get Fsmashed/Dsmashed/UpB'ed almost everytime. Also, remember information about Snake. 4 secs until Nades blow up and about 24 secs before C4 blows up.


~Mieu
 

Slice~

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most of the dairs were DR fails
i was too nervous to perform all of them successfully ^^"
 

Yikarur

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don't overuse DR, it gets predicable and it just look flashy most of the time xP. You play like "I have to look as flashy and stylish as possible" you play unsafe and you have a very aggroshi but Yoshi is a "bad" or "medicore" character with bad kill potential and "small" range and Yoshi is better if you play safe. After you get the first kill you get the most profit if you play as defensive as possible. You have to rank up damage safetly while you have a stock lead and your opponent get nervous.
and try to use DTPivotGrab. I thing you know that dash grab gets punished sooo much and so easy :/
if the player knows how to handle Aggroshi you are in a very bad situation but the most people don't know how to handle that kind of Yoshi. That is your advantage nowadays but comes time, comes knownledge and you'll have a harder time beating other people.
 

Slice~

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Delta-cod

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I've only watched the last video since I wanted to see who won, and you were playing the MU pretty wrong, imo.

I love the Ness MU, it's probably one of my best. This is what I saw you doing wrong:

First of all, you kept trying to attack him head on from the air. This doesn't usually work, since Ness's Fair will stuff any of your attacks. In general, you can't really attack him in the air unless you're below him. You're better off trying to stay grounded and stuff his air approaches with grabs/Eggs/Usmash. Now, I don't mean to say only camp; when you get momentum roll with it. However, don't try too hard. Learn when to stop and reset to your slow camp pace.

Another HUGE thing. You didn't abuse our Grab Release options on him. At all. His first stock in the last game, he lived to over 170%, despite you grabbing him when he was around 150%. If you EVER grab a Ness at above 120%, he should be dead. We can Uair him AND Usmash him on release. The Usmash is free damage and keep him above us, making it harder for him to position himself properly for a Fair, allowing for better chases. The Uair is a free kill. I saw you try the Usmash once that match, and you messed up, but it IS guaranteed.

At about 2:50, he was recovering low without a double jump. This is a free gimp. You got off the ledge and went onto the stage, instead of refreshing your invincibility with an ECE or Yoshi Bomb Cancel. He would have died. As long as he has his second jump, you can't really pester him offstage because he has a lot more flexibility. You might want to try using eggs to eat it, then going for a direct gimp. Otherwise he'll merely Fair you.

When you're recovering, be VERY careful. Don't get spiked, play it safe. You almost got spiked near the beginning of the match.
 

~Firefly~

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A bunch of Fox stuff
Thanks a bunch. =3 I noticed him shine-stalling immediately every time I did a Dthrow on him, but I kept instinctively waiting for his landing instead. I'll definitely try the Uthrow -> Uair next time though. Generally speaking, I can read bundtcake's other characters pretty well, but I'm just not used to Fox yet. I'm paranoid of getting caught by his Dairs because of the follow-ups, and I think that's probably a big part of the reason I don't put a whole lot of pressure on him. I also did not think about grab releasing him offstage; I'll have to try that next time for sure.

@ Bigman: Yeah, I know I always get caught by the lazers like that, but I put myself in that position every time anyway. =S I definitely agree that I need to be smarter with Yoshi's shield as well. I use it sometimes in this match-up for R.O.B.'s gyros (almost the only time I shield...), but I have a habit of spotdodging out of shield most of the time, so I often block the gyro only to eat a lazer after. -.-


:005:
 
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