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[VIC] Brawl Power Rankings (VERSION TEN) Updated LAST YEAR LOL
- Thread starter Splice
- Start date
- Status
ViVa
Smash Ace
Yeah, why not.
I'll try to find my copy of it, so I can practice or w/e.
I'll try to find my copy of it, so I can practice or w/e.
TakFR
Smash Lord
Yeah could become really good if you learned some melee only stuff (tech, matchups etc) your doc is legit for someone who barely plays the game =)
earla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,422
i've won 2 monthlies and a national this year
tibz hasn't won a tournament this year.
im 2-2 in sets vs tibz this year.
prior to that i beat his diddy kong using marth.
tibz lost to jei this year.
i lost to toshi(fd twice)
i 6-1'd ted.
tibz sets with ted were close and he lost one.
tibz hasn't won a tournament this year.
im 2-2 in sets vs tibz this year.
prior to that i beat his diddy kong using marth.
tibz lost to jei this year.
i lost to toshi(fd twice)
i 6-1'd ted.
tibz sets with ted were close and he lost one.
Timic83
Smash Ace
earl actually raises good points.
i actually didn't realise tibor hadn't won anything for a while.
at the same time, he has taken me to game 5 on three occasions in the last two tourneys. and beaten me in one of those sets. not to mention earl lost in straight games to tibor at acl.
decisions decisions.
i would actually like to hear the rational for the panel on that choice.
i actually didn't realise tibor hadn't won anything for a while.
at the same time, he has taken me to game 5 on three occasions in the last two tourneys. and beaten me in one of those sets. not to mention earl lost in straight games to tibor at acl.
decisions decisions.
i would actually like to hear the rational for the panel on that choice.
Id imagine it was coz tibs does better vs attila
Its probably also worth noting though I consider tibor easier than earl
I NORMALLY take tibor down to last match, whether it be 5th game or 3rd game i usually make it close.
Earl I can take games off, but he definitely makes it much harder.
Im torn.
Man In retrospect i probably should have tried for my last two stock even if i did have afro down to last... if i won that
I could say that we are even in set wins this year
and that apart from that ive placed higher than him every time
and i do better vs earl and tibs
but i guess since i dropped an individual game, you might as well imagine its as if though i didnt take a game off him, and the games he won weren't even close
and that obviously as he won the most recently (despite me winning all other matches against him since Robocop) that he must be the one who wins more often
and that how i do vs top 3 doesnt actually matter
cool beans guys
Its probably also worth noting though I consider tibor easier than earl
I NORMALLY take tibor down to last match, whether it be 5th game or 3rd game i usually make it close.
Earl I can take games off, but he definitely makes it much harder.
Im torn.
Man In retrospect i probably should have tried for my last two stock even if i did have afro down to last... if i won that
I could say that we are even in set wins this year
and that apart from that ive placed higher than him every time
and i do better vs earl and tibs
but i guess since i dropped an individual game, you might as well imagine its as if though i didnt take a game off him, and the games he won weren't even close
and that obviously as he won the most recently (despite me winning all other matches against him since Robocop) that he must be the one who wins more often
and that how i do vs top 3 doesnt actually matter
cool beans guys
No, Jei and Afro decided to make their own list
I was never told about this list except by dean two nights ago and I told him to put input in the panel for me, but idk if he did or if anyone listened, coz im not actually in the private group
they havent even added me on the group dekar
Ive made a jpeg
but the players are in a different order
we were going to release that but then tibs didnt come on line
I was never told about this list except by dean two nights ago and I told him to put input in the panel for me, but idk if he did or if anyone listened, coz im not actually in the private group
they havent even added me on the group dekar
Ive made a jpeg
but the players are in a different order
we were going to release that but then tibs didnt come on line
Man, I don't know about you
but I kinda always cringe when I hear the "easier time against X than Y" argument. And "Got to the last game of the set" type of stuff.
Next you'' want to tell me you can fairly conceptualise player placement based on "omg well in those 3 matches he loses in the set, he always tripped into a kill move on the last stock when it looked like he was gonna win, hence he should be above him because ~"
Anyway, all reactions are good reactions from power rankings (that are relating to placement), because it stirs competitive drive!
but I kinda always cringe when I hear the "easier time against X than Y" argument. And "Got to the last game of the set" type of stuff.
Next you'' want to tell me you can fairly conceptualise player placement based on "omg well in those 3 matches he loses in the set, he always tripped into a kill move on the last stock when it looked like he was gonna win, hence he should be above him because ~"
Anyway, all reactions are good reactions from power rankings (that are relating to placement), because it stirs competitive drive!
swordsaint
Smash Master
it shouldn't REALLY matter how close the sets were, losing is losing.
I agree with shaya here.
I agree with shaya here.
swordsaint
Smash Master
seriously splice, how come whenever you disagree with people you resort to insulting them? It's really annoying at how often you call people stupid just for having a different opinion. keyword being opinion.
It matters because even if attila lost to tibs, attila would still be beating those below him so his placement is still accurate. but if you're all like 'well it was SUPER CLOSE' the it borders on to the line of 'why not just have them equal first?' There's just a whole lot of other factors too, matchup knowledge/skill, the MATCHUP itself, who knows why the match was closer or further apart. you only really have two results, winning and losing. you don't have 'barely won' or 'barely lost' on the result screen lol
It matters because even if attila lost to tibs, attila would still be beating those below him so his placement is still accurate. but if you're all like 'well it was SUPER CLOSE' the it borders on to the line of 'why not just have them equal first?' There's just a whole lot of other factors too, matchup knowledge/skill, the MATCHUP itself, who knows why the match was closer or further apart. you only really have two results, winning and losing. you don't have 'barely won' or 'barely lost' on the result screen lol
The reason for that is because Im too lazy to think of a more appropriate word and I dont expect people to be so sensitive and take themselves (and myself) so seriously.
im not saying that players are equal because they got down to the last set of the match
im saying that its worth taking to account the difference between 3-0 and 3-2
and that 3-2 does imply the players are more closely matched than if it were 3-0
especially when one player has one before in the past
and now when this person wins, its not like they completely dominated
so yeah id say its debatable in that case.
which it is.
and when thinking about who does better against someone out of two people
the person that could take them down to game 5 would be the person you'd consider
im not saying that players are equal because they got down to the last set of the match
im saying that its worth taking to account the difference between 3-0 and 3-2
and that 3-2 does imply the players are more closely matched than if it were 3-0
especially when one player has one before in the past
and now when this person wins, its not like they completely dominated
so yeah id say its debatable in that case.
which it is.
and when thinking about who does better against someone out of two people
the person that could take them down to game 5 would be the person you'd consider
swordsaint
Smash Master
ignore
and btw, just because you're lazy doesn't mean its ok.
i kinda lost track of what i was talking about there so i edited out. ._.
and btw, just because you're lazy doesn't mean its ok.
i kinda lost track of what i was talking about there so i edited out. ._.
i completely agree dekar
its not a stastical ranking system at all
but when no-one saw the match (literally aled and i the only ones left who played brawl)
knowing it was 3-2 definitely helps
and the fact it definitely could have gone either way since i was an entire stock up at one point which means aled really had to pull a clutch comeback (read: clutch)
Facts:
I have outplaced Afro twice and placed equal once. He has outplaced me once.
I have beaten Afropony in one tournament. Afropony has beaten me in one tournament.
Our game win-loss ratio against each other 5-4 his favour
I have taken Tibor to last game every time ive played him this year except ACL (so thats two times)
I think Aled has taken tibor down to last game once this year.
And theres other stuff that I dont know about and dont remember
but yeah i guess its up to aleds jurisdiction since himself and jei appear to be the only two panelists. Also, now that u brought it up earl i feel you have exceeded tibor but it too is a close call, idk how others feel.
its not a stastical ranking system at all
but when no-one saw the match (literally aled and i the only ones left who played brawl)
knowing it was 3-2 definitely helps
and the fact it definitely could have gone either way since i was an entire stock up at one point which means aled really had to pull a clutch comeback (read: clutch)
Facts:
I have outplaced Afro twice and placed equal once. He has outplaced me once.
I have beaten Afropony in one tournament. Afropony has beaten me in one tournament.
Our game win-loss ratio against each other 5-4 his favour
I have taken Tibor to last game every time ive played him this year except ACL (so thats two times)
I think Aled has taken tibor down to last game once this year.
And theres other stuff that I dont know about and dont remember
but yeah i guess its up to aleds jurisdiction since himself and jei appear to be the only two panelists. Also, now that u brought it up earl i feel you have exceeded tibor but it too is a close call, idk how others feel.
Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 2,271
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- Kings Park, Melbourne
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- Jei_Soul
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Splice, Dean has put major input into this decision. Far more than Aled. Just fyi.
You're right about Earl and Tibs being so close and Earl makes excellent points. Makes me second guess the placements.
We actually didn't discuss Earl/Tibs much at all. I'm pretty sure it was just a mutual agreement.
Although if we went deeper into it I now believe Earl would come out on top...
Aled vs Splice: For the entirety of this discussion, Splice was placed above Afro and then just like that, the final list looked like that.
It's very difficult to do everything when two people are debating individual placings and the other two give their tiny input once every now and then. (No disrespect Tibs and Aled, I'm sure you have your reasons).
Viva deserves to be on the list for sure but we were looking at the results/performances of this year alone and even though Viva has proven himself top 10, Leisha and Dekar are excelling more noticebly (this year).
Last tourney was meant to help decide everything but instead we got Viva and Nicks and Dekar losing to Khoa and Conor, Me beating Toshi, Aled beating Splice and Earl using Lucario exclusively (still winning though) and I'm probably missing some things.
Anyway, I knew this would raise conflict but try to keep it less-personal.
You're right about Earl and Tibs being so close and Earl makes excellent points. Makes me second guess the placements.
We actually didn't discuss Earl/Tibs much at all. I'm pretty sure it was just a mutual agreement.
Although if we went deeper into it I now believe Earl would come out on top...
Aled vs Splice: For the entirety of this discussion, Splice was placed above Afro and then just like that, the final list looked like that.
It's very difficult to do everything when two people are debating individual placings and the other two give their tiny input once every now and then. (No disrespect Tibs and Aled, I'm sure you have your reasons).
Viva deserves to be on the list for sure but we were looking at the results/performances of this year alone and even though Viva has proven himself top 10, Leisha and Dekar are excelling more noticebly (this year).
Last tourney was meant to help decide everything but instead we got Viva and Nicks and Dekar losing to Khoa and Conor, Me beating Toshi, Aled beating Splice and Earl using Lucario exclusively (still winning though) and I'm probably missing some things.
Anyway, I knew this would raise conflict but try to keep it less-personal.
C~Dog
Smash Champion
I beat Dekar, this is ****ing bull****!
Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
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- 2,271
- Location
- Kings Park, Melbourne
- NNID
- Jei_Soul
- 3DS FC
- 1564-4103-8935
Conor assured us that he's not coming to tourneys anymore. If I'mistaken then either way, a couple more tourneys will be needed to accurately place him.
4th place after not playing for months what the hell is this?
4th place after not playing for months what the hell is this?
C~Dog
Smash Champion
I should be able to come to DBJ. And maybe June CWs, if im here at that point.
I will **** him up with frognarchs. Also i'll bring proxy decks.
Also cool : D
I will **** him up with frognarchs. Also i'll bring proxy decks.
Also cool : D
dean.
.
DBJ?
...Don't Bash Jei? why would we even want to.
All points raised are valid. We'll think over them.
...Don't Bash Jei? why would we even want to.
All points raised are valid. We'll think over them.
Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 2,271
- Location
- Kings Park, Melbourne
- NNID
- Jei_Soul
- 3DS FC
- 1564-4103-8935
No it's don't beat Jei. I come first in everything. Or else you have to vs me in bball. I have no interest in fighting noobs irl
tibs7
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 2,886
If I beat earl next tourny Im no.2 if he wins he can have it. Simple.
looking at results lol.
I think I attended 2 tournies this year maybe? came 2nd twice. took a set off attila, which honestly doesn't mean much. I'll win next tourny. then you will all see the truth!
looking at results lol.
I think I attended 2 tournies this year maybe? came 2nd twice. took a set off attila, which honestly doesn't mean much. I'll win next tourny. then you will all see the truth!
See the thing is though even if someone gets 3-0'd instead of 3-2'd...
That person had to beat others prior to getting to that tournament set. Fair game.
If seeding was random, and what not, then yeah, omg "3-2'd is a better indicator than 3-0'd in terms of whos actually not bad"...
BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE SEEDING THINGS PROPERLY (right?) the natural progression of a tournament should be all that's needed...
What happens in an individual set can come down to luck, second guessing, lack of motivation, so so so many things.
That person had to beat others prior to getting to that tournament set. Fair game.
If seeding was random, and what not, then yeah, omg "3-2'd is a better indicator than 3-0'd in terms of whos actually not bad"...
BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE SEEDING THINGS PROPERLY (right?) the natural progression of a tournament should be all that's needed...
What happens in an individual set can come down to luck, second guessing, lack of motivation, so so so many things.
swordsaint
Smash Master
I personally look at it like this, basically, 1 match is 5 games. The match should be all that counts imo.
Like Shaya said, if you're seeding correctly then "3-2" won't need to be considered because the person who lost will have to beat good players anyway and will place high regardless proving his position. It was something I was going to say before I deleted it.
Just think of it like this, those 5 games aren't seperate, those 5 games ARE 1 game. It may take a little longer to figure someone out than you first thought so it may take losing 1 or 2 game before bringing it back consistently.
Something you may find interesting (but probably not) was that, in terms of games, before I started consistently beating Shaya for a bit there, I was still up on him in 'games' but not sets.
anyway. thats how i see it, not really as a 'best of 5' but that those 5 games are one game.
Like Shaya said, if you're seeding correctly then "3-2" won't need to be considered because the person who lost will have to beat good players anyway and will place high regardless proving his position. It was something I was going to say before I deleted it.
Just think of it like this, those 5 games aren't seperate, those 5 games ARE 1 game. It may take a little longer to figure someone out than you first thought so it may take losing 1 or 2 game before bringing it back consistently.
Something you may find interesting (but probably not) was that, in terms of games, before I started consistently beating Shaya for a bit there, I was still up on him in 'games' but not sets.
anyway. thats how i see it, not really as a 'best of 5' but that those 5 games are one game.
tibor wasn't contributing cause he wasn't number one.
aled wasn't contributing cause the ladies were keeping him real busy.
don't like it? make a new panel.
there are things that obivously weren't discussed.
aled wasn't contributing cause the ladies were keeping him real busy.
don't like it? make a new panel.
there are things that obivously weren't discussed.
dean.
.
OK, the way I see it, Tibs and Earl are both extremely talanted players and very close in skill level.
If this ranking was a representation of performances between last update (pre-Robocop) and now, Earl would more than likely be #2.
However, at this point in time Tibs has shown to be in currently better form than Earl. Tibs has placed second at the last two tournaments he attended, in that time beating Attila x1, Earl x2, Tedeth x1, Zxv x1, Afropony x1 I think and Splice x2, while losing to Jei x1, Attila x2 and Tedeth x1.
Compared to Earl, who unfortunately did not get to play Tedeth (who he has a strong record against) or Zxv (who he has an... indifferent record against) at ACL, he has beaten Splice and Afropony in that time for notable players, while losing to Attila x2 and Tibs x2.
I don't really involve the EBGames tournament nor the February tournament (where Earl's strongest competition was Toshi) as part of my mindset when trying to differentiate these two players. If we feel the need and Earl clearly proves himself a strong claim for #2, we can update the list after next CouchWarriors (assuming both can attend DGJ and CW). It's definitely close, don't get us mistaken.
...
I'm not well judged to comment on positions #4 and #5, as I was not in attendance last CouchWarriors. Before that point, Jei and I were confident in having Splice at #4 and Afropony at #5, but Afropony beating Splice twice seems to have changed this. Without being there firsthand, I'm not going to blindly believe Afropony's "I 2-stocked or JV-2ed him nearly every game" or Splice's "there was no one there so I couldn't be bothered trying" (paraphrasing) so I trust Jei, Splice and Afropony settled this.
...
Positions #9 and #10 were discussed quite a bit. Before CouchWarriors, we had settled on Viva being #9 and Dekar being #10. Leish did well at EBGames (it seems, I was not in attendance there either) which seems to have lifted there over Viva, in combination with her decently strong out-of-state performances. However, I am not sure about this... Viva did not do too well at last CouchWarriors, but in the end, neither did Leisha... and Viva has recent winning form vs. Leish, Dekar, Nicks I think, as well as Nova and S.D and ACL, whereas Leish does/used to beat Dekar (Dekar has won the most recent set between the two, however) but lost to players around her position like Nicks at CW, Viva at the CW before that, etc. I'll try to rediscuss this.
Whatever the result, on this current list you can consider ViVa and Nicks the honourable mentions.
Really, the main things that were discussed kinda were me vs. Jei (unusually, it was Jei that thought I was above him, and me that thought Jei was above me), Splice vs. Afropony, the players/positions of #9 and #10 and briefly Jei vs. Toshi (Jei has outplaced Toshi at the past three "official" tournaments and beaten him head2head in that time, but was not enough for Jei to overpass him!). I don't think this is a bad result.
We do have a image (courtesy of Splice), but it is of the outdated version. If Splice makes an image for Leish and edits it/sends it to me to edit, we can upload.
Edit: the amount of games won in a losing set against a top player is very occasionally useful if the two players being compared are extremely close in positioning, but I'd rather not use it much. The gap between barely losing a game/set and actually winning it is suprisingly large: top players more often than not rise to the occasion and still manage to win. Like seriously, there have been a bunch of people who "nearly" beat Mew2King in the United States, but that number is in direct contrast to the number of people who actually have beaten him. To use an example closer to home, no-one really cares if I took a game off Zxv, he's still the one advancing in the tournament, not me ^_^
If this ranking was a representation of performances between last update (pre-Robocop) and now, Earl would more than likely be #2.
However, at this point in time Tibs has shown to be in currently better form than Earl. Tibs has placed second at the last two tournaments he attended, in that time beating Attila x1, Earl x2, Tedeth x1, Zxv x1, Afropony x1 I think and Splice x2, while losing to Jei x1, Attila x2 and Tedeth x1.
Compared to Earl, who unfortunately did not get to play Tedeth (who he has a strong record against) or Zxv (who he has an... indifferent record against) at ACL, he has beaten Splice and Afropony in that time for notable players, while losing to Attila x2 and Tibs x2.
I don't really involve the EBGames tournament nor the February tournament (where Earl's strongest competition was Toshi) as part of my mindset when trying to differentiate these two players. If we feel the need and Earl clearly proves himself a strong claim for #2, we can update the list after next CouchWarriors (assuming both can attend DGJ and CW). It's definitely close, don't get us mistaken.
...
I'm not well judged to comment on positions #4 and #5, as I was not in attendance last CouchWarriors. Before that point, Jei and I were confident in having Splice at #4 and Afropony at #5, but Afropony beating Splice twice seems to have changed this. Without being there firsthand, I'm not going to blindly believe Afropony's "I 2-stocked or JV-2ed him nearly every game" or Splice's "there was no one there so I couldn't be bothered trying" (paraphrasing) so I trust Jei, Splice and Afropony settled this.
...
Positions #9 and #10 were discussed quite a bit. Before CouchWarriors, we had settled on Viva being #9 and Dekar being #10. Leish did well at EBGames (it seems, I was not in attendance there either) which seems to have lifted there over Viva, in combination with her decently strong out-of-state performances. However, I am not sure about this... Viva did not do too well at last CouchWarriors, but in the end, neither did Leisha... and Viva has recent winning form vs. Leish, Dekar, Nicks I think, as well as Nova and S.D and ACL, whereas Leish does/used to beat Dekar (Dekar has won the most recent set between the two, however) but lost to players around her position like Nicks at CW, Viva at the CW before that, etc. I'll try to rediscuss this.
Whatever the result, on this current list you can consider ViVa and Nicks the honourable mentions.
Really, the main things that were discussed kinda were me vs. Jei (unusually, it was Jei that thought I was above him, and me that thought Jei was above me), Splice vs. Afropony, the players/positions of #9 and #10 and briefly Jei vs. Toshi (Jei has outplaced Toshi at the past three "official" tournaments and beaten him head2head in that time, but was not enough for Jei to overpass him!). I don't think this is a bad result.
We do have a image (courtesy of Splice), but it is of the outdated version. If Splice makes an image for Leish and edits it/sends it to me to edit, we can upload.
Edit: the amount of games won in a losing set against a top player is very occasionally useful if the two players being compared are extremely close in positioning, but I'd rather not use it much. The gap between barely losing a game/set and actually winning it is suprisingly large: top players more often than not rise to the occasion and still manage to win. Like seriously, there have been a bunch of people who "nearly" beat Mew2King in the United States, but that number is in direct contrast to the number of people who actually have beaten him. To use an example closer to home, no-one really cares if I took a game off Zxv, he's still the one advancing in the tournament, not me ^_^
Nicks
Smash Journeyman
i dont really understand how dekar and leisha are above me.
I played leisha twice this year, both times I have beat her 2-0 and I either 2 stocked or JV 2 stocked her every single one of those games. She hasnt come close to beating me since about October last year.
And iirc out of the last 3 times ive played dekar ive won twice and he won once. The time he won i went snake both games.
not only that but i have decent winning records against people higher than that in the PR aswell. I havnt played jei in a while but last time I played him i beat him 2-0. And ive played dean twice this year and we have won one each (both sets went to last game).
can someone please explain this to me??
I played leisha twice this year, both times I have beat her 2-0 and I either 2 stocked or JV 2 stocked her every single one of those games. She hasnt come close to beating me since about October last year.
And iirc out of the last 3 times ive played dekar ive won twice and he won once. The time he won i went snake both games.
not only that but i have decent winning records against people higher than that in the PR aswell. I havnt played jei in a while but last time I played him i beat him 2-0. And ive played dean twice this year and we have won one each (both sets went to last game).
can someone please explain this to me??
dean.
.
Hi Nicks,
Before last CouchWarriors in my personal opinion you would have slotted into #11 and unlucky not to be on the list, behind ViVa and Dekar. I may be personally biased towards Jesse as he's a good friend of mine, but the reasons I rate him I put somewhere in that large post above yours.
Dekar's a bit harder to judge. He has impressive wins over Toshi, Apollo's ZSS iirc (before Apollo switched to Snake and beat him) and a bit further back, myself. He's a bit inconsistent at times, however. However, I believe you played Dekar at DGB? Using Wario and Meta Knight, losing to him (I remember the Snake set you're talking about, I wouldn't use that as a strong basis for Dekar, don't worry). I don't remember if you've played a set since then as brackets have not been being posted for CouchWarriors tournaments, but to the best of my knowledge you haven't. Forgive me if I'm wrong.
And we've played three times this year, with you winning two of them. Guess that just makes your argument stronger, huh.
I... am probably still of the personal opinion that you should be ranked above Leisha, but maybe not above ViVa and Dekar. However, for the panelists, deciding the lower placements of the PR is difficult because the players often produce inconsistent results. We will take your arguments on board, so bear with us.
Before last CouchWarriors in my personal opinion you would have slotted into #11 and unlucky not to be on the list, behind ViVa and Dekar. I may be personally biased towards Jesse as he's a good friend of mine, but the reasons I rate him I put somewhere in that large post above yours.
Dekar's a bit harder to judge. He has impressive wins over Toshi, Apollo's ZSS iirc (before Apollo switched to Snake and beat him) and a bit further back, myself. He's a bit inconsistent at times, however. However, I believe you played Dekar at DGB? Using Wario and Meta Knight, losing to him (I remember the Snake set you're talking about, I wouldn't use that as a strong basis for Dekar, don't worry). I don't remember if you've played a set since then as brackets have not been being posted for CouchWarriors tournaments, but to the best of my knowledge you haven't. Forgive me if I'm wrong.
And we've played three times this year, with you winning two of them. Guess that just makes your argument stronger, huh.
I... am probably still of the personal opinion that you should be ranked above Leisha, but maybe not above ViVa and Dekar. However, for the panelists, deciding the lower placements of the PR is difficult because the players often produce inconsistent results. We will take your arguments on board, so bear with us.
ViVa
Smash Ace
PR matches may solve our problems?
M
+9999999999
You forget some people excel further at counterpicks to win. So sometimes a game or two are dropped in order to gain that advantage.
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