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Pac-Man's sliding grab goes farther than Toon Link's, soooo yeah, Pac-Man can cover a good amount of distance with the slide.
rated higher than ? They are similar characters in a lot of ways, but Zard has a better oos game, a better kill throw, a combo throw (at low percents,) a better jab, better grab range, better grounded mobility, better tilts, disjoints on his wings, a move with 5 frame armor that can do up to 30% damage at low percents and kill at high percents, and a better recovery. I know Bowser often gets PLAYED more, but is there something I'm missing as to why he's consistently considered a better character than Charizard?
is one of the biggest winners of 1.1.1:
Greninja, goes the farthest (not counting Monado Shulk), has probably the worst standing grab in the game.
This isn't a basic option that everyone knows about? People have been adding their momentum into turnarounds from the air as long as I can remember.
I don't know if this is you but that voice is so silky smooth. Feels sooooo good.
Yeah I'm sure many people noticed this (at least I am very familiar with it) but the point of this video is to show you which characters should be taking more advantage of it and in general more detail about it.
Some people added their own kooky name to it, but it was a general option to add some distance from landings. I know I used this a lot as Ike so that I could pressure with a bair or land and execute a turnaround jab. I see numerous players doing this when I watch streams as well, so I never knew it wasn't known.
His slide is decent, but he has too many moves that stop his slide now like jab and grab, and his walk is slower. He gets a medium slide for dtilt and I guess utilt/ftilt too, but that's it.
Our standing grab is already horrid, so I guess there's no reason for us to use it outside of d-tilt/u-tilt.
Hey, what's up guys. It's been a while since I've been active on Smashboards.
Arrows really are that important I'd say. Being able to redirect them to a significant degree helps a ton with recovery, makes stealing double jumps, well, possible, actually works as an anti-camp projectile, tons of follow-up applications... You get the picture.
Very slightly more damage and then more KB on top of it. Basically nothing, really.
Fixed.
Kinda surprised everybody isn't in an uproar over how high Pit is...
Sorry, the uproar's reserved for Lucas' placement.
Japan is also pretty stacked, and Gungnir doesn't attend much offline. I actually don't think I know of any offline Ganon tournament players in Japan, to be blatantly honest.I'm a bit surprised at Ganon's placement. I can't imagine Japan not having Ganon rep seeing as they have Gungnir, unarguably one of the best Ganon's and quite possibly the best period. I've heard he hasn't gone to many tournaments though, and even then, Vermanubis and Ray_Kalm may have surpassed him at some point. Does Japan have any tourney-heavy Ganon's?A2ZOMG
As for the character himself, Ganon has his issues, but I'd never place him in the same tier as Zelda, Jiggs, and Samus. I'd honestly put him in B-/B+ if it were up to me, but I suppose it really depends on the semantics of the tiers themselves, what the cutoff for viability is. Even then, Ganon's viability is trapped in "maybe-sort-of-sometimes-viable" limbo due to how drastic the difference between "doing well" and "doing badly" is with Ganon.
Ganon's viability in two sentences: When Ganon is winning, he's top tier. When he's losing, he's rock bottom.
And Ganon is the best sword character ever
Ike and especially Robin are criminally underrated, but oh well. It works out for him anyway if Japan thinks he's still fairly mediocre.https://twitter.com/SSBB_Rain/status/653589788570726400
Rain's 1.1.2 Tier List (collaboration with Nietono)
Not ordered within tiers
A+
A
B+
B-
C+
C-
Thoughts?
Pretty sure the buffs are running out for these characters... Considering that Marth and Lucina got nerfed even though they're typically seen as bad characters.
I also don't think the dev team is going to "fix" these moves because they're intentionally bad. (Namely Dair looking at the nerfs.) I think we've all accepted that Samus isn't getting a jab that really links at this point.
uhh
Speaking of bad down airs... do you know how badly I wanted Roy before he went for sale to have the Melee/Brawl down air? Man that animation was smooth. Of course, frame 6 is a really fast spike in a game so much more "fair" so they'd have to slow it down a couple/few frames. And then Roy would have a Ken combo except with WAY better air speed than Melee Marth or Roy.
And those were in the earlier patches... Just look at 1.0.0, the game was rushed. When was the last time Ike got a real game changer directly? Four major patches ago? If anything they don't want him to be much better in FFAs.
Luigi's is pretty nifty if for the spike properties. Very useful out of a D throw for a free nair followup. I wouldn't call that mediocre.
Mind refreshing me on what changed?
Knockback properties changed (KBG 100 to 94; BK 40 to 55); overall, the move does more knockback compared to how it was previously.
That reminds me, how good was Luigi's D-Air buff?
Well his Dair spike hitbox pre patch was already good and set up very well from a D throw at mid to early-late %, and now it's spike hitbox is even bigger. Unfortunately, it no longer sets up as well from a D throw tdue to the properties changes, but still does at more specific %. So really, it kind of balances out to be the same. Although I like using F throw now [despite still being a underwhelming move,] to get opponents off stage for the dair spike. It still messes up Falcon, Robin and Fox to list a few even easier now.
Heaven forbid, lol
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it!
H-how can you forget the best D-air in the game?
I'm not sure I agree entirely with this post. What about Ness? Easy to use (and therefore easy to pocket) character who is likely advantaged against Fox, arguably beats ZSS as well and only really struggled a little with Luigi and greatly with Rosa. The rise of ZSS (and your predicted fall of Rosa) only benefits this character, so he's probably a bigger winner from this patch. On top of that, I think the Luigi nerfs are enough to tip matchups like Ness, Diddy and likely Pikachu out of Luigi's favour but I don't suddenly see Fox winning that matchup. Luigi's reward is still excellent particularly on fast fallers and Fox was never particularly susceptible to dthrow cyclone or jab jab shoryuken. I've always felt that the matchup was in Luigi's favour even without dthrow bair and that's really the only matchup-specific thing he lost in 1.1.0Aside from being "easy," I really think
In 1.1.0, Fox lost to Rosa, Luigi, Sheik and maybe ZSS (ordered in descending difficulty). Camping Luigi is a viable strategy for Fox now because Luigi's reward is no longer absurd, and so the Fox player is no longer required to be near-flawless. Sheik is probably still bad, but it was never terrible in the first place so that's OK really. ZSS may have gotten worse, but that's actually still better for Fox because he'd much rather fight her than Rosa. And since ZSS basically counters Rosa, Fox should be less likely to encounter her in bracket.
This character has one noticeably bad MU (which shouldn't be as common if people tier ***** ZSS), a slight uphill climb against Sheik/ZSS (but really, few characters don't), and then he's probably even or better against everyone else, including other characters that people agree are frightening. I really can't blame players if they want to bandwagon him now.
I don't really think Dark Pit's placement on any tier list matters at all. He's a straight up worse version of Pit in almost every imaginable situation and is unique (grrr
) in that he is literally 100% completely and totally irrelevant in all but one, maybe two matchups. If somebody picks Dark Pit you only need to keep 3 things vaguely in mind in addition to whatever understanding of Pit you already have, those being "ftilt won't kill, side-b sends horizontally, arrows do more damage but can't be aimed as precisely". Compared to Pit, his advantage is worse, his disadvantage is marginally worse, his neutral is significantly worse and (almost) every single one of his matchups is noticeably harder for Pittoo than it would be for Pit. I do believe they should be in the same tier as they are the same character, but there can be any number of characters in between them (although I'd imagine it would be 0). Perhaps if we had a more Rosa-centric meta we'd be discussing how many places Pit would be below Pittoo, but as it stands neither this character nor this discussion is going anywhere.
Disable may be tough to land but at least it's fast enough to be able to when the opportunity presents itself, and can reward Mewtwo with a very early kill. If I had to name his worst move, it'd probably be ftilt by virtue of being mostly outclassed by dtilt.
Fox still loses to Luigi and is still even with ZSS imo.
Where do you get that idea from? Fox does certainly not lose to Ness.
Link also has one of the better dairs in the game, or at the very least has a good one.
