VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Strong Badam]

Two of the Up-Air hitboxes send at 80 (close to straight up) and one sends at 45.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Ah, is that what it is? Ok then, thanks!

 

[Xyzz]

ICs: They're pretty bad at dealing with platforms. Peach isn't hot sauce when it comes to working with them, but ICs are even worse off, so avoid FD (FoD as well because when the plats are low they can reach them from below and stuffs :D). We edgeguard them better than they do in return, so DL for living as long as possible is probably our best choice. BF should be a nice stage as well, because of the high top plat. Yoshis has lowish plats that can be decently pressured from below, and it's small, but we can zone them out pretty well so it's kinda okayish, I think. I don't know about PS.
Doc: I like FoD, because the low plats can somewhat mess with their pills. Also I'd pick something with a high ceiling preferably, because of his up smash / fair. For some reason, I also like FD against him.
Don't know nothing about YL / Pikachu.

Regarding bad DI: Well, they probably expect nairs / fairs to throw them offstage so they hold up... :D
But yeah, many people miss DI fairly often (:

 

[The Irish Mafia]

shrouded, if they're diing away at low percents, you should probably just go float center stage and bait them to jump back in. As a player who's far too eager for consecutive hits, I usually need to stop myself from rushing off to the side to desparately swing at them. Sadly, the girl just can't run that fast in those heels. Your "combos" will have more luck if you bait a counter attack and then outprioritize it. It also opens them up for a real combo once they burn their double jump.

 

[ShroudedOne]

@Xyzz: I agree about FD vs ICs, but oddly enough, I am liking that stage vs them. But in general, it's probably not safe. Yeah, on Yoshi's they can upsmash/utilt from below the platforms, which is awkward to deal with at times, and the small blastzones... Stadium is a good ICs stage, so no to that, generally.

For Doc, I'd like Dreamland/Battlefield, and maybe Yoshi's, so that he can't space me out with pills as well. I'd prefer to be in his face. FoD sounds awkward, and FD...ugh. Obvious no to Stadium, I think.

@Irish: Yeah, I suppose just waiting is best, since she's not built to really chase DI away. It'll just often catch me by surprise, since it rarely happens, and boom, there goes my combo.

 

[Tomber]

ICs: They're pretty bad at dealing with platforms. Peach isn't hot sauce when it comes to working with them, but ICs are even worse off, so avoid FD (FoD as well because when the plats are low they can reach them from below and stuffs :D). We edgeguard them better than they do in return, so DL for living as long as possible is probably our best choice. BF should be a nice stage as well, because of the high top plat. Yoshis has lowish plats that can be decently pressured from below, and it's small, but we can zone them out pretty well so it's kinda okayish, I think. I don't know about PS.

Actually, stages with platforms are more likely what make the match up winnable for ICs. Peach should CP to FD while ICs should ban it.

FD doesn't benefit ICs against Peach in any way. They are very good at controlling the ground, sure, but that doesn't matter much against Peach as she can float camp ICs really well and doesn't want to be on the ground anyway. Furthermore, Peach can kill Nana off a single fair on flat stages because Nana can't tech the ground. Fair->fair->fair->edge guard kills Nana easily even at 0% and there isn't much the ICs player can do about it. Platforms makes this harder to do and easier for the ICs player to stop if Nana lands on at platform as Peach now has to go to the platform herself where she doesn't want to be.

The real reason why platforms benefits ICs though is that the they make ICs able to rank up damage and pressure Peach once they control the center of the stage. If Peach floats near the edge, ICs can use the platform to shoot Ice Blocks at her at very low risk. ICs can also use the platforms to escape when catch at the edge. And attack Peach through them. Most of ICs' attacks launches Peach into the air. If she lands of a platform it is easy to follow up.

A lot of inexperienced ICs player like to strike to FD against Peach though because it's a great stage for them against nearly every other character. Peach players who doesn't know the match up tend to ban it for the same reasons. YS, BF and PS are probably the best stages for ICs against Peach. Personally, I like PS the best.

EDIT: However, it also depends on the Peach players' style. If Peach digs a lot for turnips, uses down-smash all the time, or generally just happen to be on the ground most of the time then FD can work for ICs too.

 

[AozoraX]

Hey guys, kind of a in-training Peach character, been lurking the boards but never had to chance to post. Just wanted some feedback on a couple of matches I had a couple months ago.

One versus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGgfNWFPm4

I feel like I kinda gave up since this tournament was really a learning experience for me but

And one with this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-5z32I8rz4

I just can't deal with Marth either.

Anything is appreciated! :D

 

[john!]

- you float too often IMO. this is really bad vs. marth especially. staying in float makes you relatively immobile. there were a lot of times when you could have just dash attacked and gotten an easy hit/combo (particularly good against falco)

- make sure to move around a lot. i know peach is slow, but not moving around makes it a lot easier for the opponent to position and space against you

- sometimes you pluck turnips when you shouldn't. turnips are great when you knock them far away, but sometimes it's better to try and continue the combo, make a read, or zone them out.

- don't use daisy, she is an ugly basic *****

 

[JamesBJames]

only watched game 1 vs. marth, but i think you need more turnips and grabs; you're not finding enough spots to open him up

i dunno if it's tech skill error, but i don't believe dair is ever good against marth to edgeguard; bair is pretty good in practice if you don't have a turnip to throw at him first; holding the ledge and reacting can't be too bad either

so a big thing is work on getting in position for edgeguards plus learn how to actually do them (e.g. 2:30 - 2:40 was pretty bad imo)

 

[Prince_Abu]

only watched game 1 vs. marth, but i think you need more turnips and grabs; you're not finding enough spots to open him up

i dunno if it's tech skill error, but i don't believe dair is ever good against marth to edgeguard; bair is pretty good in practice if you don't have a turnip to throw at him first; holding the ledge and reacting can't be too bad either

so a big thing is work on getting in position for edgeguards plus learn how to actually do them (e.g. 2:30 - 2:40 was pretty bad imo)

wat makes u think ur qualfiied to give advice u ****in noob

 

[JamesBJames]

wat makes u think ur qualfiied to give advice u fkn noob

abu, go home, you're drunk

 

[darkatma]

Abu so silly

Sup hanky.

Time to work on my peach again.. Big House was really embarassing for me =[

 

[Ryobeat]

Can someone help me with the Ganon matchup? I keep getting foward air-ed DIn all seriousness, i dont get how to avoid his stuff.)

 

[Prince_Abu]

ATMA i will mm you with my fox next time we meet

if u want

 

[Prince_Abu]

Can someone help me with the Ganon matchup? I keep getting foward air-ed DIn all seriousness, i dont get how to avoid his stuff.)

basically all u do is ****in throw a turnip in his face then press down smash basically the same broke n**** as all matchups

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I actually love peach against ganon.... turnips+fd counterpick should win this matchup just by camping.
To approach peach with ganon you need a hard read, so just throw veggies at him until he decides to risk a fair or other laggy approach. also instafloat double nair edgeguard was made for ganon, you can catch him out of his double jump with the 2nd nair if he mashes jump or just wait and punish if he up-b's.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Ganon isn't a favorite of mine, but I've some ideas for you.

He's slow overall, but his fair is faster than yours (little known fact), so keep that in mind. Most basic Ganons will fold to turnip camping, and turnip > aerial things in general. If he's close to you, do NOT downsmash or pull a turnip. Try not to jump. Instead, attack him with grabs, dash attack, or try to bait him with WD/dashing.

Avoiding his stuff is like...just don't let him set it up. Don't run into it mindlessly, always have a turnip behind your aerials because otherwise his WILL beat yours.

Not sure about what to do when they start platform maneuvering, but keep in mind that you generally don't want to try to attack them there unless you read their movement, because you will probably get hit.

Most important thing is patience.

(Vwins, I summon you?)

 

[JamesBJames]

basically all u do is ****in throw a turnip in his face then press down smash basically the same broke n**** as all matchups

yeah abu is pretty on-point here

turnips destroy ganon, so if you're having trouble just pull more and more of them

edit: unless he's close to you but then you can always jump and press the green button or mash the yellow stick down

 

[Ryobeat]

Alright, cool c: i will try to put some of this into practice. But when im offstage, do I recover high or low?

 

[AozoraX]

only watched game 1 vs. marth, but i think you need more turnips and grabs; you're not finding enough spots to open him up

i dunno if it's tech skill error, but i don't believe dair is ever good against marth to edgeguard; bair is pretty good in practice if you don't have a turnip to throw at him first; holding the ledge and reacting can't be too bad either

so a big thing is work on getting in position for edgeguards plus learn how to actually do them (e.g. 2:30 - 2:40 was pretty bad imo)

Yeah... I find it really hard to get Marth back off the stage, especially when they're sweetspotting the ledge. If I don't have a turnip I feel especially screwed that I have to wait and hold my shield over ledge and see what happens but... eh. Gotta keep trying.

- you float too often IMO. this is really bad vs. marth especially. staying in float makes you relatively immobile. there were a lot of times when you could have just dash attacked and gotten an easy hit/combo (particularly good against falco)

- make sure to move around a lot. i know peach is slow, but not moving around makes it a lot easier for the opponent to position and space against you

- sometimes you pluck turnips when you shouldn't. turnips are great when you knock them far away, but sometimes it's better to try and continue the combo, make a read, or zone them out.

- don't use daisy, she is an ugly basic *****

Yeah, first point is very true. I feel like floating seems to be the only way I can open him up and my grabs never seem to work. I'll have to mix it up a bit harder. And being mobile is a bit of an issue, I watch videos of Peach players and they somehow seem to be so agile.

... but I like Daisy

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

what about floating in range to punish high upb where he goes above the edge with bair then fade away from the edge to dodge ledge getup attk and you can punish ledge roll with dair as you are fading away. if they get up from ledge you can get a free turnip. i think i have seen armada do this

 

[KirbyKaze]

... but I like Daisy

Every time you select Daisy, Armada's next set vs HBox takes 1 second longer to finish

 

[Redd]

Fun fact: choosing Daisy is illegal in 8 states.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Only 8? Who revoked it? I swear it was 11 last I checked...

 

[Wake]

I'm almost certain that sex was the next topic in the cycle. What's going on?

 

[Redd]

I'm almost certain that sex was the next topic in the cycle. What's going on?

LOOOOOOL

Those swing states, KK. Keep up with the times imo.

 

[Xyzz]

Every time you select Daisy, Armada's next set vs HBox takes 1 second longer to finish

Good thing there is the "2 set, (3 - 2)(3 - 2), all time out" - hard cap in place :D (or 4 - 3 if they let them play bo7 (I wouldn't :D))

 

[KirbyKaze]

Time between matches

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Alright, cool c: i will try to put some of this into practice. But when im offstage, do I recover high or low?

don't recover high on yoshis, and do it rarely on FoD and FD. The name of the game is ganon's uair, and if he hits you then you have to try again. On yoshis it isn't a risk worth taking, there's no platforms on FD and FoD doesn't have enough horisontal space to give you a good place to land.

On DL and BF, you have enough airspace to bait out ganons jumps and follow him down. I wouldn't suggest trying to hit him on your way down, because it means you're probably gonna land near him. His movement sucks so your goal is to recover outside his range. Most ganons will overextend for the punish, that's sorta how you get in because peach is lagless etc.

Recovering low is pretty good vs ganon because he really doesn't have a good answer to the parasol's priority/hitbox placement. The things to avoid are the stomp and the tipman spike. Stomp is ledge techable and you can generally poke him with the umbrella when he jumps and crouches. Tipman spike isn't techable so if they're going for it then you're gonna want to make a point of holding onto your float in case you get hit. What it comes down to is waiting below the ledge in float and using parasol whenever he tries to interfere / whiffs a ledge attack / loses ledge invuln.

While doing all that is easy enough, the hard part is getting off the ledge with peach. you're gonna want to mix up ledgejump, roll from the ledge, and throw in ledgejump nair just to see if he'll fair you. Every peach player knows what a bad idea ledgejumping can be so you'll just want to test him to see if he can deal with it.

On a similar note, DoH got me doing ledgejump -> DJ wd to the platform to get my float back from the ledge. It's a pretty good option from the ledge, considering how limited she can be there.

 

[Brookman]

HEY MAFIA


in caps

 

[The Irish Mafia]

'sgood bayb

 

[DoH]

On a similar note, DoH got me doing ledgejump -> DJ wd to the platform to get my float back from the ledge. It's a pretty good option from the ledge, considering how limited she can be there.

I do that?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

i remember you making an offhand comment about it during friendlies at some national. it was databased shortly after.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I thought this was cool

 

[knightpraetor]

everytime i watch bladewise I learn something new. Funny thing is, i never watch bladewise for more than 10sec at a time. So either he is amazing or i have extraordinary luck

 

[The Irish Mafia]

rofl I feel the same
Like, I never sit down and "learn from bladewise", even though every time I see him he's doing something **** / really, really smart
Like, he does a lot of fullhops I agree with, and a good deal of creative techy stuff that I get a total hardon for

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah, Bladewise is really fun to watch, and so good. He's become my Peach fascination, as of late.

 

[BladeWise]

hahaha, wow.
Thanks for the praise everyone.

Much of my playstyle is owed to the fact that it's hard to keep up with technical Foxes, and Washington has plenty of them.
Also, my more "creative" edgeguarding is a sorta compensation for the fact that I'm still lacking in the offstage turnip game.

I've been messing around with offstage dairs recently. Results are kinda mixed, but it's a viable option. Oftentimes it'll happen when I decide to run -> float offstage for an edgeguard, but they space their recovery under my float. I've gotten a few FF dair -> upB kills on Falco, kinda looking like Marth.

 

[KirbyKaze]

One of these days you're going to hit every single cool tricky unorthodox edgeguard you go for in a set vs one of WA's finest.

And it's going to be the most swagtastic nonsense I've ever seen a Peach do.

 

[Wake]

Yeah yeah! I've been messing around with FF dairs too! I was really glad to see you using them a bit because I was curious about how they might work in higher level matches lol.