VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[The Irish Mafia]

oh god that would be broken

but yeah watch the first match, I use it to counter knees oos
pretty clever if I do say so myself

 

[TheGeneral]

I don't know anything about Peach

Peach's head is invincible while utilt's hitbox is out. Soooo good.

Everyone's head is invincible on up moves.

Except Jigglypuff.

Lol, KirbyKaze. I think you'd be pretty good with peach if you picked her up. It's mainly just knowing matchups and executing ( and not getting gimped in my case). All of these things you can do.


Also, here are some videos that I made earlier in the year and never uploaded:
(sorry for the quality, I was recording from my ****ty laptop camera )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8jKuOZ4xI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoIxa1qMBqQ

The first video is just okay overall, but I'm pretty happy that I got a power shield down smash off at 1:24. It just looks really cool

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm really bad at moving with her. I'm used to Sheik's fast wavedash and fast dash speed; playing Peach, I'm really not sure how I should be moving around in matchups. I'm even less sure about how I should be spacing myself, since I can never decide whether she has good priority or not. But I think everything else would be easier if I knew how to move with her comfortably. I remember Cort talking about single dashes as a means to space. Vwins WDs back into D-smash but that's pretty much the only time he touches WD. Armada does everything.

What's a good way of moving around with her?

I also don't know how to hide in between stocks. I think I might just lightshield on the edge of a platform and hold off towards the middle of the stage, but some characters (Marth, Fox, Falco) can punish that really easily. So I'm not sure how to tackle that.

Also, I see a lot of Peaches using moves to zone with FC aerials and double aerials but I find myself getting punished for trying that kind of spacing. Is this a me thing or is there a secret that I don't know?

 

[TheGeneral]

I can't really say the best way to move around with her. You're best using Cort's advice ( he is the man ) and watching his and Armada's videos. They have two different styles but they always execute nearly flawlessly.

I've seen the single dash style. I kind of like that because peach's initial dash is much quicker than her run and it's easier to down smash and float cancel out of.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

The best way to move around with peach is to not. Seriously, they should be approaching you. Peach can only approach safely behind a turnip, IMO, and hardly so even then. The only real movement that you should do is with floated aerials, mostly sh height and off the ground. I'm working on landing quicker, I tend to jump around and wait for something to happen, which gets me ***** on occasion.
To hide in between stocks, I usually float off the stage. Sometimes they'll ******** and chase you out there, and you can usually punish it when their invincibility frames end. Just don't be stupid and get ledgeguarded, and you're set.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't play her much, but refresh my memory. Why should Fox/Falco/Sheik be approaching me again?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Because you'll have an easier time parrying their approaches than approaches than you will approaching. To be honest, I don't know, but I've learned from Vans that punishing everything is the way to go with peach. Just bait and destroy.

 

[TheGeneral]

I don't play her much, but refresh my memory. Why should Fox/Falco/Sheik be approaching me again?

I'm not sure if you were being serious but the answer is if they are bored because they can pretty easily out camp peach if they want to. Well, maybe not falco because he is actually kind of slow on the ground but he's got lazors set to stun.

Kirby Kaze, come to Rochester next year with raynex and the other good Canadians, please. I think that would be awesome.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Because you'll have an easier time parrying their approaches than approaches than you will approaching. To be honest, I don't know, but I've learned from Vans that punishing everything is the way to go with peach. Just bait and destroy.

I understand that, but how am I making them approach me? Their camping is so much better.

 

[_Keno_]

You usually can't, unless you have a percent lead. If Pink Shinobi comes in here, you might learn how.

 

[MacD]

nah, pink is agro enough against those characters... well though there no sheiks here so you won't really see him vs a high level sheik except him vs mango a couple matches

he sucks vs falco so don't watch those

and him vs zhu always ends in zhu winning

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I just try to win the projectile volleys, for the most part. Turnips are good camping stuff. Dsmash is a good bait, it has deceptive lag, very hard to punish. My favorite is just floating midheight and waiting for them to approach, but spacing it out of their range and punishing. Pretty much the most basic punish you can do with peach.

Work with it. Talk to Vwins. Have him post here a little more often. Tell us how you do, you little 16 year old, you.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Vwins just tells me to turnip --> FC approach. And to D-smash more.

I get that I'm supposed to scare them into attacking me and punish as much as I can, but when they don't get scared that's when I start struggling.

I mean, I'm a Sheik main. I'm supposed to camp everyone lol.

 

[lloDownedu74]

My favorite approach is -believe it or not- dash attack People never expect it, and it leads to comboes lol. Just make sure you dont overuse it, or else you'll be getting shield grabbed over and over again

Also I like turnip->nair a lot too. If your opponent isn't letting you approach them at all, then just stay away from them for a while, and then either wait for them to come to you or slow;y approach, covering all options and controlling the stage with turnips.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Alright.

Thank you.

^.^

 

[MacD]

did you see me vs zhu on the live stream last week kirby kaze??

if so then you'll see how easy it is to punish random dumb dsmashes

playing zhu in tourney is such a great way to learn, but i always have this screw it attitude and don't give it my all... anyone know any ways to fix that?? i swear i have a better chance at beating mango than i do zhu

 

[crismas]

Just make sure you dont overuse it, or else you'll be getting shield grabbed over and over again

Or shield upsmashed by Fox

 

[KirbyKaze]

did you see me vs zhu on the live stream last week kirby kaze??

if so then you'll see how easy it is to punish random dumb dsmashes

playing zhu in tourney is such a great way to learn, but i always have this screw it attitude and don't give it my all... anyone know any ways to fix that?? i swear i have a better chance at beating mango than i do zhu

I did see you on the livestream. I wasn't sure what to say because Fox is hard even with a broken character like Sheik. I can't even imagine how hard it must be with a less-broken character like Peach.

I'm not sure what to say about the attitude thing against certain players, as I have it too. Lately I've just stopped caring though but I have an inkling of suspicion that the nature of our player-specific problems differ, and I don't think "not caring" would help you.

 

[TheGeneral]

Or shield upsmashed by Fox

^ This. I personally hate when I'm trying to run --> float cancel nair --> something
and instead I get run --> dash attack --> get *****. Or I'm trying to dash attack and I FORWARD TILT. For most characters that would be okay I guess, but not peach.


Aggh, I wish I had a gc at my house right now. I feel like I can only practice tech skill right now anyway. I might as well just practice things on my controller while I wait for magfest.

Oh, and LolOwned, I <3 dash attack too against Falcon and Marth, but only when they are just beginning or have just wiffed an aerial. It's a pretty good punish. I try to never use it against grounded opponents for reasons that we already stated ( you get crouch canceled, shield grabbed, etc. )

One thing that always pisses me of is getting comboed by fox's dash attack (usually the weak part) as they set you up for something gay. It keeps me off of the ground just enough so that I can't crouch cancel the dash attack. I really hate that.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Turnip Fair is incredible vs. Marth. It just hits him perfectly. I do it sooooo much.
I've learned to use dash attack very sparingly, mostly to get under sheik's needle approaches. The weak hit is very useful when approaching, it's just a little tap to let your opponent know "don't run ***** i see you". For the most part I've cut it out of my play because I was just getting punished too hard from it.
@llod/general: Don't dash attack vs falcon. Just don't do it.

I was curious, where do you guys CP marths? I'm trying to figure out what stage would benefit me the most, and I'm having trouble deciding.

 

[lloDownedu74]

I agree with TheGeneral. ftilting when you want to dash attack kinda sucks (but a lot of the time, when i accidentally ftilt, it works )

Dash attack is a move that shouldn't be used a lot, because it does become predictable and can easily be punished. Against falcon, dash attacking is a bad idea lol

Marth is a hard matchup for Peach (duh). You can always go to Mute City
If not, then most stages are kinda dangerous against marth. Definitely don't go to Marth's Yoshi's Story, and platforms can get Peach screwed over with his fair and spike. I like FD because of the stage control

Sorry I can't help much. Too used to brawl lol

 

[MacD]

but... but... dash attack is too good

 

[The Irish Mafia]

If I'm playing against a Marth, I'm doing the neutral with falcon. I just don't like the matchup too much. I've been ***** by no-name (then again, I am a no-name) marths on mute, and peach just doesn't get the upper leg she normally does on that stage. Granted it is ****ty for everyone else, I, personally, don't like it all that much.
Marth is one of the matchups where I dash attack. It's a good way to get inside him and to change it up from my standard turnip-fair. I think whoever's applying more pressure is winning that matchup.

And MacD would say that, mr. fc aerial -> dash attack combo -> rinse and repeat combo. You did break that habit, though.

In other news, Ftilt and utilt are very, very underrated combo moves. I really wished people saw that video I posted a couple pages back, it used it very well. Ftilt starts chaingrabs and the weak hit is good for. . . stuff. Try it out.

 

[RaynEX]

did you see me vs zhu on the live stream last week kirby kaze??

if so then you'll see how easy it is to punish random dumb dsmashes

playing zhu in tourney is such a great way to learn, but i always have this screw it attitude and don't give it my all... anyone know any ways to fix that?? i swear i have a better chance at beating mango than i do zhu

Does Zhu go Falco on you? Out of curiosity, who does he go and what neutrals do you like/dislike as Peach? (vs. spacies)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Zu-zu goes Fawkes.

 

[MacD]

my wittle zhu zhu goes foxy against me though he'd **** me with either

against fox it depends on if they are going to camp or not

either way FD is nice cause no platforms and chaingrabs
FoD i love cause high ceiling and small so they can't camp
yoshi's is good so they can't camp, as long as you can avoid getting tripple up aired (<3 doh)
dreamland you will live but if the fox is extra campy i won't pick it
battlefield is fine
stadium is dumb

against falco idk, haven't really played enough falco's to know what exactly i'd want, but as of now i'd say
dreamland is good
FD i kinda like
battlefield is fine
FoD idk, it's alright i guess
yoshi's is dumb
stadium not really

 

[Teczer0]

Turnip Fair is incredible vs. Marth. It just hits him perfectly. I do it sooooo much.
I've learned to use dash attack very sparingly, mostly to get under sheik's needle approaches. The weak hit is very useful when approaching, it's just a little tap to let your opponent know "don't run ***** i see you". For the most part I've cut it out of my play because I was just getting punished too hard from it.
@llod/general: Don't dash attack vs falcon. Just don't do it.

I was curious, where do you guys CP marths? I'm trying to figure out what stage would benefit me the most, and I'm having trouble deciding.

Sheiks needle approach you? O_o

And curiously why would you prefer the weak hit? If you hit sheik with a weak dash attack they can drop on you with a strong nair or needle grab >_>..... *confused*

Take marth to a CP stage

 

[Cia]

I haven't used this in a while, but take Marth to Jungle Japes. He can't sweet spot the ledge except under really weird (usually accidental) circumstances.

Another good stage to take him is DK64. Peach can recover a lot easier and you'll never get tipper'd through a platform. You can also camp here. (See C0nn0r v. G$)

 

[Quaz]

wouldnt someone just switch to fox or something though if you took them to DK64? From what I've seen people dont just main marth alone idk.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I'd rather just take it to DL64 and maybe go falcon. Spacies on DK64 are no fun :/

 

[lloDownedu74]

Go to FD/BF and go sheik against marth It always works

 

[ConnorTheKid]

Marth Peach isn't even bad. it just depends on how well you camp like Paul

 

[MacD]

no dude, you can't just camp a marth straight up like pink shinobi does to low tiers, that's going to get you *****

the only stage it's even semi possible on is dk 64, marth has a giant disjointed hitbox... that will mess you up in the end

wow i just watched pink vs cactuar's marth, that match made me lol, especially near the end

 

[Cia]

^ that's not necessarily true. Peach can't camp Marth with the same ease as camping a low tier, but she does have the advantage of forcing him to approach.

what makes this match up tough is that Marth has some nasty approaches, and can Fair combo Peach to about 70 ish percent =/

 

[DoH]

I think the hardest part about Peach v Marth is that he can just keep her above him and it's really hard to get down to the ground

 

[MacD]

^ that's not necessarily true. Peach can't camp Marth with the same ease as camping a low tier, but she does have the advantage of forcing him to approach.

haha that's probably a better way to say what i wanted to

just to clarify, i meant that you can't camp marth the way pink shinobi camps low tiers, other peaches, and certain characters on dk 64, ie run around the whole stage and practically time out the clock

it's like there is camping, and then there is paul haha, god i wish he would play again

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I think the hardest part about Peach v Marth is that he can just keep her above him and it's really hard to get down to the ground

QFmy opinion.

He'll just keep you above and out of the stage, and it limits the hell out of your options. Your best option is to pray you have a turnip or to go for the ledge, but chances are he'll juggle you once or twice before you manage to do whatever it is you're planning on.

 

[Quaz]

I agree with DoH and Mafia its so hard to recover properly against marth. Its the main reason why I don't enjoy fighting marth on FD (having platforms gives me a couple more options for recovering as long as I stay high above)

 

[Samochan]

For some reason I'm starting to prefer FD vs marth just because the platforms don't give marth any more leverage in guards or combos. Recovery is basically "fool marth or get guarded again", so platforms don't matter much here, since marth can reach it form below too. >_> Then I have much more free reign at turnip using without being stuck on platform with marth below me or smaller stage like yoshi or fod or bf. But I guess it's the marth play style that counts, aggressive marths are easier to punish than more defensive oriented.

Battlefield is my fav stage though. <3 It usually doesn't fail me.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

FD does make sense for marth. I still think he can be CP'd better than that. Marth is known for his prowess on that stage, and the idea behind a CP is to gain considerable leverage on the opponent. FD may be a good peach stage, but "Marth on FD" is considered a problem for a reason.