VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[crush]

I always thought rolling was for bk's. Like how when mango rested armadas roll later in an interview he said something along the lines of "yeah, I got the rest because armada made a bk move and rolled when I was sitting by his shield"

 

[Brookman]

suh-bop-tim-uhl

Say it that way out loud, it sounds funny. ^_^

 

[ShroudedOne]

suh-bop-tim-uhl

Say it that way out loud, it sounds funny. ^_^

I chuckled when I read this, and said it out loud. And then laughed.

 

[adumbrodeus]

idk, sometimes i just feel it, like the right/best/safest thing for me to do in the situation is to roll all the way across the stage.

it's partly being experienced, partly panicking and not wavedashing or nairing OoS, and partly desperation lol

You forgot "partially comfortable that your opponent will have no idea how to punish it cause nobody rolls".

 

[ShroudedOne]

Does this actually work?

Yeah, toad gives you a little boost of height. It's like Marth's side B in that you can only use it once for the boost, and it comes back once you land on ground (not when you grab the ledge). It's not recommended, though.

 

[crush]

suh-bop-tim-uhl

Say it that way out loud, it sounds funny. ^_^

I dun get it

 

[MacD]

You forgot "partially comfortable that your opponent will have no idea how to punish it cause nobody rolls".

against ganon at least i knew if i made it past him, i could keep going because he is too slow

it just happens though, you try doing something completely stupid and it works out cause people don't expect it

 

[crush]

Doesn't ganon have like, the same running speed as falco?

 

[Redd]

Running Speed

a ">" means that the character to the left of the ">" ACCELERATES to his/her top speed QUICKER than the character to the right of the ">"

a "=" means the two or three characters between the "=" have the same exact acceleration.

Note: Acceleration was measured with the BUNNY HOOD on, no matter how small and impossible-to-tell the difference (as long as one of my 10000 tests showed a difference than I put the difference down in this list)

1) Captain Falcon
2) Fox
3-5) Sheik > Pikachu > Marth
6) Pichu
7-10) Young Link > Roy > Yoshi > DK
11-15) Falco > Dr. Mario = Mario > Mr. Game & Watch > Bowser
16-20) Samus > Kirby = Mewtwo > Ice Climbers > Ness
21) Ganondorf
22) Luigi
23-24) Link > Peach
25-26) Jigglypuff > Zelda

Taken straight from the man himself, M2K.

 

[baka4moé]

wow peach is slow

 

[0Room]

So in a word
No

 

[mers]

That's cause you're a BK playing with BKs

Pfff. Worked on Boss, Redd, and DoH.

 

[choknater]

how to make peach move faster horizontally?

dash attack

 

[john!]

you can also pluck a bomb and throw it down at your feet

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Peaches' perfect WD goes moderately faster than peaches run. I remember seeing armada use it to cross FD at genesis 1.
Peaches, you must WD! We may play a slow character, but that's no excuse to play her without good, quick movement on the ground. I like to go fast, so I try my hardest to make peach go fast. Peach can't do stuff unless she's mobile. Use your laglessness for more than dsmash and jab.

 

[choknater]

armada is the only peach who uses dash forward wd back, the 2005 tactic. and he uses it SOOOOOOOOOOOO well. he catches so many foxes with wd back dtilt or wd back dsmash its not even funny

 

[Palpi]

Peach puts on hella good pressure for a slow *** character

just never leave once you get in haha

 

[The Irish Mafia]

armada is the only peach who uses dash forward wd back, the 2005 tactic. and he uses it SOOOOOOOOOOOO well. he catches so many foxes with wd back dtilt or wd back dsmash its not even funny

It's one of the truly effective counters to aggro fox play. Running forward->WD back is the most effective thing I've ever applied to my game.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peaches' perfect WD goes moderately faster than peaches run. I remember seeing armada use it to cross FD at genesis 1.
Peaches, you must WD! We may play a slow character, but that's no excuse to play her without good, quick movement on the ground. I like to go fast, so I try my hardest to make peach go fast. Peach can't do stuff unless she's mobile. Use your laglessness for more than dsmash and jab.

I actually watched him doing that at Genesis 1 and said to myself, "That's a good way to be faster. Let me copy that." I screw up every now and then, but man, her wavedash is really good (and underrated).

 

[TheSaudiMizer]

Armada also defends a lot with WD back to a FC fair or something like that. Wavedashing is definitely important with every character, Peach included.

On another note, I've switched to using a claw grip sometimes for aerials, where I use my index finger to hold the jump button and thumb for the c-stick. It's the fastest way for me to get a lot of my fairs out, and it helps that I can move however I want and still do my aerial. Just wondering how a lot of the faster peaches do it.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Armada also defends a lot with WD back to a FC fair or something like that. Wavedashing is definitely important with every character, Peach included.

On another note, I've switched to using a claw grip sometimes for aerials, where I use my index finger to hold the jump button and thumb for the c-stick. It's the fastest way for me to get a lot of my fairs out, and it helps that I can move however I want and still do my aerial. Just wondering how a lot of the faster peaches do it.

I always thought that WD back to FC fair was too slow...

I actually do it the exact same way, using my index finger for Y, and my thumb for the c-stick. One of my friends noticed it, and thought that it was a weird variation of the claw method, and I was like, "Uh...okay, I guess?" It was just the most natural way for me.

 

[Palpi]

I was thinking if someone does a laggy move, does a FC reverse bair into them work since it has more combo potential than a FC strong nair?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Reverse bair has more combo potential than a strong nair, but I think Peach has better combo moves. Like dash attack, d-tilt (depending on the character). You can also grab them, to get something started (again, character dependent). I think reverse bair is something you use to continue a combo, not start one.

Also, I always discredit Pink Shinobi for time outs/camping really hard, but I never realized just how GOOD at Peach he was until recently...man...

 

[Meverse]

does anybody know how to deal with falcon bsides edgeguarding the life out of him? i mean dealing w/ falcon's stage-game

 

[choknater]

yea pink shinobi was **** haha

sigh

 

[Rosedemon]

Reverse bair has more combo potential than a strong nair, but I think Peach has better combo moves. Like dash attack, d-tilt (depending on the character). You can also grab them, to get something started (again, character dependent). I think reverse bair is something you use to continue a combo, not start one.

Also, I always discredit Pink Shinobi for time outs/camping really hard, but I never realized just how GOOD at Peach he was until recently...man...

Once you see him play spacies, you come to realization that he was easily the best Peach in the US at his time.

He camps match ups/styles that he isnt familiar with, which is why you see him camping characters like Ganon/Link, but he has the capacity to play very legit, and still win.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Once you see him play spacies, you come to realization that he was easily the best Peach in the US at his time.

He camps match ups/styles that he isnt familiar with, which is why you see him camping characters like Ganon/Link, but he has the capacity to play very legit, and still win.

Yeah, whenever I see him play against a spacie, or Falcon, or Marth, I think, "Wow. No wonder he was the best Peach." But then when I see him timing out Ganons and camping Mango really hard, I kinda frown at him.

 

[MacD]

Once you see him play spacies, you come to realization that he was easily the best Peach in the US at his time.

He camps match ups/styles that he isnt familiar with, which is why you see him camping characters like Ganon/Link, but he has the capacity to play very legit, and still win.

i wouldn't say a character he wasn't familiar with per se

whenever i would talk to him about it he would always say that "i camp low tier characters because i can and i will win that way" it was fun for him and that's how he knew to win the match up

either way, pink shinobi was so beast

 

[choknater]

i think his prime was at West Coast Smash League. he was beating mango in friendlies until mango decided within the friendlies that sheik would be his best bet. he was pretty much the only person at the time who had a change against mango

too bad Zhu pulled a ton of comebacks/upsets coming from loser's bracket lol. that was hype. DSF's jigglypuff on brinstar taking a match from zhu, stupid comeback vs kfc, and then beating pink shinobi.

one of zhu's best days for sure

UNTIL HE GOT COMPLETELY BODIED BY MANGO

ahhh

just reminiscing

 

[MacD]

WCSL had so many good things about it... like me coming back into the smash community

boback wanting to kill me cause he had no idea who i was besides a dsmash spamming peach

meeting alan (most important obviously)

man, what a great tourney

 

[choknater]

haha yeah def a classic moment for the west coast. that tourny was also the time i stopped playing melee a lot for brawl lol

which was

a lame decision. ah well, no regrets

 

[Redd]

Pfff. Worked on Boss, Redd, and DoH.

I don't recall. Plus standing and waiting on respawn = **** on 80% of MD/VA LOOOOL.

 

[Rosedemon]

WCSL had so many good things about it... like me coming back into the smash community

boback wanting to kill me cause he had no idea who i was besides a dsmash spamming peach

meeting alan (most important obviously)

man, what a great tourney

 

[choknater]

haha she is so red/pink

 

[mers]

I don't recall. Plus standing and waiting on respawn = **** on 80% of MD/VA LOOOOL.

Good point. It was just my one moment of happiness that stood out from the wreckage of my pride in our Marth dittos.

 

[TheSaudiMizer]

I always thought that WD back to FC fair was too slow...

It's definitely too slow too do once someone is already in your face but if you think someone is about to come at you with an aerial then you can should be able to start one up. I sometimes WD back and do a FC, but if they retreat into a DD or something I will try to waveland towards them and usually catch them with a dash attack or FC nair. But if you're playing someone too aggressive who isn't baiting their approaches, then a WD back FC fair can definitely just pop them in the face for it.

 

[Composeur]

Controller grips

I actually do it the exact same way, using my index finger for Y, and my thumb for the c-stick. One of my friends noticed it, and thought that it was a weird variation of the claw method, and I was like, "Uh...okay, I guess?" It was just the most natural way for me.

I'm very intrigued by the different ways people utilize their controllers. No matter which way I try, some area of my tech skill is limited by the choice I make. I know this is unavoidable to some extent, but I'm curious how other players, especially the top ones, deal with it. I'm totally willing to retrain my hands if I think I've found something that will work better for me down the road.

First, I have a basic question: does anyone here EVER use their fourth/fifth fingers for anything? Anyone who plays a fingered instrument will tell you that they lack independence, so trying to use them for something that requires coordinated movements as minute as melee seems unnatural to me, but theoretically I can imagine someone using his fourth finger for R.

ShroudedOne: I definitely understand that C-stick aerials allow for more natural aerial mobility during the float, but how do you nair, then? (Wouldn't life be so much easier if we could nair with the c-stick??) If you use A, you'd obviously have to use your thumb because your index finger's busy holding Y if it's a fc nair. I guess I can't see a problem with that because I think(?) everyone has to move their thumb between A (and B) and the C-stick anyway. Do you always use the C-stick for all other aerials?

I guess the main difficulty I'd have with this is using R with the middle finger and trying to switch between R and Z. It's difficult for me to get the leverage to press R all the way down with the middle finger, especially if I'm trying to keep just the tip of my index finger on Y. I'm guessing you just use L for everything, though I suppose you could brace the controller against your body for the leverage? Though I'm used to shielding with R, I guess I can imagine using L for everything, though it would make wd oos more awkward.

Also, do you ever have problems with the positioning of your thumb on the C-stick? My thumbs always slide around the sticks as it is, and it's worse when I use just the tip (AND THAT'S WHAT NOBODY SAID, THANK YOU). It's especially bad when trying to move quickly between A and the C-stick. Does anyone else have a problem keeping a grip on either control stick? There must be a simple way to enhance the grip, like attaching something with more friction or something like that?

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm very intrigued by the different ways people utilize their controllers. No matter which way I try, some area of my tech skill is limited by the choice I make. I know this is unavoidable to some extent, but I'm curious how other players, especially the top ones, deal with it. I'm totally willing to retrain my hands if I think I've found something that will work better for me down the road.

First, I have a basic question: does anyone here EVER use their fourth/fifth fingers for anything? Anyone who plays a fingered instrument will tell you that they lack independence, so trying to use them for something that requires coordinated movements as minute as melee seems unnatural to me, but theoretically I can imagine someone using his fourth finger for R.

ShroudedOne: I definitely understand that C-stick aerials allow for more natural aerial mobility during the float, but how do you nair, then? (Wouldn't life be so much easier if we could nair with the c-stick??) If you use A, you'd obviously have to use your thumb because your index finger's busy holding Y if it's a fc nair. I guess I can't see a problem with that because I think(?) everyone has to move their thumb between A (and B) and the C-stick anyway. Do you always use the C-stick for all other aerials?

I guess the main difficulty I'd have with this is using R with the middle finger and trying to switch between R and Z. It's difficult for me to get the leverage to press R all the way down with the middle finger, especially if I'm trying to keep just the tip of my index finger on Y. I'm guessing you just use L for everything, though I suppose you could brace the controller against your body for the leverage? Though I'm used to shielding with R, I guess I can imagine using L for everything, though it would make wd oos more awkward.

Also, do you ever have problems with the positioning of your thumb on the C-stick? My thumbs always slide around the sticks as it is, and it's worse when I use just the tip (AND THAT'S WHAT NOBODY SAID, THANK YOU). It's especially bad when trying to move quickly between A and the C-stick. Does anyone else have a problem keeping a grip on either control stick? There must be a simple way to enhance the grip, like attaching something with more friction or something like that?

It will inevitably occur that there are some things that are harder to do because of the way you use the controller. But I don't know if impossible is the word.

Fourth/fifth fingers? I don't...

Oh, I nair with my thumb. This touches on what baka4moe was saying some pages back, that since you're FC nairing with A, it's better to just use all aerials with A. But it's easy for me to switch, I guess. I use my index finger for Y, and my thumb for A. Gosh, I can never remember what button I use to shield. I think I use R when I'm playing comfortably (including my wavedashes, wavelands, and other stupid things), and when I'm panicking, I use L. Weird, I know.

I simply rest my controller on my thighs?... This is something else I never thought about: leverage.

=D Haha, the tip. But as far as the c-stick goes, I rarely have positioning problems, besides the occasional wrong aerial. My problems lie more with the analog stick, cause my thumb slides a lot... As far as enhancing the grip, I can only suggest keeping your fingers dry and slick-free...

 

[baka4moé]

shroudedone i like ur avatar hehe

 

[MacD]

colette!!!!!!!