Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Diddy Kong]

Feels like that'll run into the too much 3H characters problem tho.

I fail to see the problem. Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude all use very different weapons and fighting styles. It's not much different than the overabundance of Generation 1 Pokemon, or the fact most of the Zelda cast always was Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess based. Byleth, Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude cover basically all Fire Emblem has to offer if they're smart about their movesets. Add back Marth, Ike and Lucina for legacy reasons and it's perfect to me.

 

[Quillion]

I fail to see the problem. Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude all use very different weapons and fighting styles. It's not much different than the overabundance of Generation 1 Pokemon, or the fact most of the Zelda cast always was Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess based. Byleth, Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude cover basically all Fire Emblem has to offer if they're smart about their movesets. Add back Marth, Ike and Lucina for legacy reasons and it's perfect to me.

Yeah, but I find the separation of games that Zelda has in Ultimate much better (feelings against Link's BotW Smash iteration aside). And TBH I highly doubt we'll get any more Gen 1 Pokémon in the current scheme of selection (if they switch to a more ideal "wait and see" approach, then maybe).

Edelgard could work given that she effectively introduced the game on its reveal, but I think the spear wielder should be Ephraim if anything. We don't have any Lords that are primary bow-wielders though, so you got me there.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, but I find the separation of games that Zelda has in Ultimate much better (feelings against Link's BotW Smash iteration aside). And TBH I highly doubt we'll get any more Gen 1 Pokémon in the current scheme of selection (if they switch to a more ideal "wait and see" approach, then maybe).

Edelgard could work given that she effectively introduced the game on its reveal, but I think the spear wielder should be Ephraim if anything. We don't have any Lords that are primary bow-wielders though, so you got me there.

Why would they go for Ephraim? Dimitri can do just the same and Three Houses is way more popular than Sacred Stones ever was. They're both infantry lancer units. And Dimitri offers the great rivalry to Edelgard, a character you can get behind.

Having Edelgard and Claude but not Dimitri would be weird, and having Ephraim would be forced.

 

[Quillion]

Why would they go for Ephraim? Dimitri can do just the same and Three Houses is way more popular than Sacred Stones ever was. They're both infantry lancer units. And Dimitri offers the great rivalry to Edelgard, a character you can get behind.

Having Edelgard and Claude but not Dimitri would be weird, and having Ephraim would be forced.

Eh, I think I could just go for Lyn given that she's a bow user as a secondary weapon. Come to think of it, bow-whipping would look awkward for more than a few moves.

I just feel there's a lot more potential in representing different universes rather than just focusing on 3H. Yes, I know Roy is already from Lyn's universe, but still.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

All this FE rep conversation lol...Then there's me. Who wants ANOTHER Awakening character, which many argue is oversatuated even for FE games...but it's also the very last FE character anyone would expect.

 

[Quillion]

All this FE rep conversation lol...Then there's me. Who wants ANOTHER Awakening character, which many argue is oversatuated even for FE games...but it's also the very last FE character anyone would expect.

Tharja? I'm pretty sure she still rivals Lysithea in being one of the most popular Dark Magic users.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Tharja? I'm pretty sure she still rivals Lysithea in being one of the most popular Dark Magic users.

Nay, I want Grima. Y'know, the big, scary antagonist of the game. Because who wouldn't want to play as the ultimate terrifying dragon of darkness? He'd both be an excellent villain rep for Fire Emblem, AND would absolutely throw a curveball as far as FE representation goes, being not a swordsman, but a literal dragon with horrifying abilities. I know this'd ultimately never happen, but apart from Ribbon Girl and Viridi, there's no character I want more. Playing as the ultimate evil dragon is the ultimate power fantasy for me!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Eh, I think I could just go for Lyn given that she's a bow user as a secondary weapon. Come to think of it, bow-whipping would look awkward for more than a few moves.

I just feel there's a lot more potential in representing different universes rather than just focusing on 3H. Yes, I know Roy is already from Lyn's universe, but still.

I don't imagine Claude to do that. There are more ways to shoot a bow. Just imagine Gunner, but attacks done with the bow instead. And if anything he could have melee attacks where he'd attack using a arrow in hand or something. Claude is also able to wield a sword, as shown in some cutscenes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0NQewIZ15Mw

 

[Laniv]

Everyone's talking about which Fire Emblem character they'd add

and then there's me, who would also add another (technically) Awakening character, but the other super-powerful dragon character

 

[Quillion]

Everyone's talking about which Fire Emblem character they'd add

and then there's me, who would also add another (technically) Awakening character, but the other super-powerful dragon character

Tiki would be a far superior dragon to Corrin ngl.

 

[fogbadge]

Tiki would be a far superior dragon to Corrin ngl.

so long as it’s kid tiki

 

[Swamp Sensei]

so long as it’s kid tiki

Adult Tiki is more popular. Plus we'd miss out on the characterization that happened in Awakening.

 

[fogbadge]

Adult Tiki is more popular. Plus we'd miss out on the characterization that happened in Awakening.

so what they skip over popular characters all the time. Can’t we all get over this idea that it has to be the popular one. Especially in the unpopular opinion thread

also how much characterization are you expecting in smash?

 

[Laniv]

Tiki would be a far superior dragon to Corrin ngl.

so long as it’s kid tiki

Adult Tiki is more popular. Plus we'd miss out on the characterization that happened in Awakening.

I will admit, I did have adult Tiki in mind when I said I want Tiki in Smash, but I didn't know that was the more popular version of the character.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

This kinda ties into what I said about anime swordfighters before, but I feel that once you peel back the toxicity, both sides of the "scrimblo" debate have a point - Smash is supposed to be a mega-mass-appeal game so lacking scrimblo bimblos in the DLC is a major failure on its part, especially given that it is a platform fighter and thus platformer fans will be attracted to it; but on the other hand the fandom for cartoony characters can be - intentionally or otherwise - extremely ruthless in silencing fans of more realistic or anime-esque (and more often than not infinitely more important) characters from the same company just because Mario is on the game box. (Ezio vs. Rayman for example)

 

[fogbadge]

This kinda ties into what I said about anime swordfighters before, but I feel that once you peel back the toxicity, both sides of the "scrimblo" debate have a point - Smash is supposed to be a mega-mass-appeal game so lacking scrimblo bimblos in the DLC is a major failure on its part, especially given that it is a platform fighter and thus platformer fans will be attracted to it; but on the other hand the fandom for cartoony characters can be - intentionally or otherwise - extremely ruthless in silencing fans of more realistic or anime-esque (and more often than not infinitely more important) characters from the same company just because Mario is on the game box. (Ezio vs. Rayman for example)

you forgot the other side of the argument

 

[AlRex]

I freely admit that my ideal Smash roster ideas would likely not sell well to the general public, except maybe on sheer ridiculousness of certain choices. This is unpopular because I dunno how many others would say that about the version of Smash they'd like most.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I am a huge Crash Bandicoot fan, but in all honesty Crash and Smash should stay as far apart as possible. COD and Warcraft are objectively more deserving of such a privilege (not even beginning on the wider MS net); his moveset would likely be based on Crash 3 (which doesn't even have a consistent playstyle of its own); they'd tone down his slapstick to the point of being unrecognisable, despite being the only thing that could actually make him unique moveset-wise; and he'd just be another non-Sony character for Smash fans to claim serves as a "PlayStation rep".

 

[KatKit]

I genuinely think the series needs way more "anime" sword wielders

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

For as much as people complain about Kirby's representation being too 90s-slanted, I feel Sonic and Yoshi have the exact opposite issue - it feels weird to represent a gaming icon like Sonic with a near-equal distribution between all his divisive eras rather than focus on his peak of cultural relevance on the Mega Drive; and if any one game should be represented more than all other games in its series combined, it's Yoshi's Island. The only Yoshi game that's even close to Island in quality is a reskinned fairy block game.

 

[Ze Diglett]

For as much as people complain about Kirby's representation being too 90s-slanted, I feel Sonic and Yoshi have the exact opposite issue - it feels weird to represent a gaming icon like Sonic with a near-equal distribution between all his divisive eras rather than focus on his peak of cultural relevance on the Mega Drive; and if any one game should be represented more than all other games in its series combined, it's Yoshi's Island. The only Yoshi game that's even close to Island in quality is a reskinned fairy block game.

Damn, you really gonna knock Woolly World like that?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Damn, you really gonna knock Woolly World like that?

Never said Yoshi games after Island are all bad, I'm quite a Touch & Go fan myself, bur I don't think any of them thus far are on Island's level of quality. More a case of Island being really good than later Yoshi games being really bad.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

For as much as people complain about Kirby's representation being too 90s-slanted, I feel Sonic and Yoshi have the exact opposite issue - it feels weird to represent a gaming icon like Sonic with a near-equal distribution between all his divisive eras rather than focus on his peak of cultural relevance on the Mega Drive; and if any one game should be represented more than all other games in its series combined, it's Yoshi's Island. The only Yoshi game that's even close to Island in quality is a reskinned fairy block game.

The problem with Kirby isn't a 90's slant, it's an early 2000's one. If they were to ACTUALLY use a 90's slant, Dream Land 2 and 3 (and depending on the circumstance 64) would be more likely to get attention. I'd actually slightly prefer that to most other Kirby timeline alternatives.

But during the turn of the century, Kirby somehow shifted. It's hard to tell if the anime was directly to blame or not, but when that show diverted the direction Kirby was going after the Dark Matter trilogy, the games afterwards similarly started to follow suit. Most of the elements that stuck around after that were from Sakurai's titles, and it took an additional decade for anything else to stick. Kirby also went through an odd experimental phase with spin-offs and outsourced mainline titles, with the remake of Super Star on the DS being the only concrete exception.

Nowadays, the franchise is slightly beginning to branch itself away from that era. But that idea of keeping everything minimalist somehow seems to still exist within Smash Bros, and I don't like the implications I'm getting from that.

By the way, Woolly World was a decent successor to Island. Even if it came at the cost of an Epic Yarn stage (which sounds dubious at best) I think it was a good idea for Smash 4 to represent it with a stage. Which is why it's all so much more alarming they cut the Yoshi stage in Ultimate, yet left the awful Kirby Super Star (not Ultra) stage intact.

 

[fogbadge]

The problem with Kirby isn't a 90's slant, it's an early 2000's one. If they were to ACTUALLY use a 90's slant, Dream Land 2 and 3 (and depending on the circumstance 64) would be more likely to get attention. I'd actually slightly prefer that to most other Kirby timeline alternatives.

But during the turn of the century, Kirby somehow shifted. It's hard to tell if the anime was directly to blame or not, but when that show diverted the direction Kirby was going after the Dark Matter trilogy, the games afterwards similarly started to follow suit. Most of the elements that stuck around after that were from Sakurai's titles, and it took an additional decade for anything else to stick. Kirby also went through an odd experimental phase with spin-offs and outsourced mainline titles, with the remake of Super Star on the DS being the only concrete exception.

Nowadays, the franchise is slightly beginning to branch itself away from that era. But that idea of keeping everything minimalist somehow seems to still exist within Smash Bros, and I don't like the implications I'm getting from that.

By the way, Woolly World was a decent successor to Island. Even if it came at the cost of an Epic Yarn stage (which sounds dubious at best) I think it was a good idea for Smash 4 to represent it with a stage. Which is why it's all so much more alarming they cut the Yoshi stage in Ultimate, yet left the awful Kirby Super Star (not Ultra) stage intact.

it’s probably cause that’s around the same time sakurai was leaving Hal with amazing mirror being the last one he was involved with and even then I think he’s credited as just an advisor

 

[Diddy Kong]

If the next Smash game ends up having a lot of cuts, I hope they include as many Echo Fighters as possible

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I've said this a lot in the statuses, but I don't think I've ever said it on this thread: Even as a platformer fan and FPS non-fan, Banjo over Master Chief is easily the worst roster decision in Smash history, nothing comes close, and I can't believe I ever thought that was a remotely acceptable choice, let alone something to root for. Like, at least Pythra and Corrin aren't the first representatives for a company their fandom actively uses as a scapegoat and chooses to see as a "ransom-holding kidnapper".

 

[Lenidem]

Banjo over Master Chief is easily the worst roster decision in Smash history, nothing comes close

You forgot Piranha Plant.

Joke aside, I don't think there were any kind of competition between Chief and Banjo. Nintendo probably wanted Banjo because he was basically theirs, and if Rare hadn't been sold it is sure that he would have been playable earlier. So saying "Banjo over Chief" doesn't make more sense than "Banjo over Dante or Lara Croft", or "Joker and Luminary over Master Chief".

(And Banjo & Kazooie fit perfectly in Smash.)

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Nintendo probably wanted Banjo because he was basically theirs,

That's my problem. Why would you pay negotiation money to get what may as well be another Nintendo character in a roster already full of Nintendo characters? Banjo is a character who's connections to Microsoft are almost entirely negative, which makes him a godawful choice to represent Microsoft and Xbox, even if Chief and/or more characters who are seen as Microsoft characters and not just "Bill Gates' abused adoptive son" like Clippy or Marcus Fenix were added first. It's an insult to everything the Xbox line has done for the gaming industry, especially when you consider just how big a crossover Smash is and how much it can shape certain franchises' and brands' public image. For Christ's sake, even Grant Kirkhope, someone who was working on Banjo's Smash inclusion, was doing the "welcome home" crap.

Also Piranha Plant was a great choice, the kind of pick that should really be the norm and not the exception.

 

[fogbadge]

That's my problem. Why would you pay negotiation money to get what may as well be another Nintendo character in a roster already full of Nintendo characters? Banjo is a character who's connections to Microsoft are almost entirely negative, which makes him a godawful choice to represent Microsoft and Xbox, even if Chief and/or more characters who are seen as Microsoft characters and not just "Bill Gates' abused adoptive son" like Clippy or Marcus Fenix were added first. It's an insult to everything the Xbox line has done for the gaming industry, especially when you consider just how big a crossover Smash is and how much it can shape certain franchises' and brands' public image.

Also Piranha Plant was a great choice, the kind of pick that should really be the norm and not the exception.

because characters aren't chosen to represent companies. this notion that 3rd party characters are there to represent companies is purely a fan thing. b&k are there to represent themselves and nothing else. and the importance of the xbox to gaming is not how smash works either. also what you gotta remember is that popularity for smash is not the same as general popularity, b&k were a far more popular choice for smash than mc ever was

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

because characters aren't chosen to represent companies. this notion that 3rd party characters are there to represent companies is purely a fan thing. b&k are there to represent themselves and nothing else. and the importance of the xbox to gaming is not how smash works either. also what you gotta remember is that popularity for smash is not the same as general popularity, b&k were a far more popular choice for smash than mc ever was

Whether they're supposed to represent a company is irrelevant, the fact is that they do. Smash is the biggest crossover in gaming unfortunately, and it is going to shape people's thoughts on certain game libraries and what their standout titles are, especially those of other console manufacturers that Smash fans actively choose to avoid - not to mention the whole "celebration of gaming history" BS.

 

[fogbadge]

Whether they're supposed to represent a company is irrelevant, the fact is that they do. Smash is the biggest crossover in gaming unfortunately, and it is going to shape people's thoughts on certain game libraries and what their standout titles are, especially those of other console manufacturers that Smash fans actively choose to avoid - not to mention the whole "celebration of gaming history" BS.

thats just not true. how many people call ice climber a stand out title of nintendo's library? smash doesn't change people's perspective of games

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

thats just not true. how many people call ice climber a stand out title of nintendo's library? smash doesn't change people's perspective of games

I have absolutely seen Ice Climber be called a Nintendo standout a lot of times because of Smash.

Not to mention that most of Smash's roster is Nintendo characters, and pretty much every standout is reprsented. There's only two Microsoft characters in Smash, and neither of them were created with Xbox in mind.

 

[fogbadge]

I have absolutely seen Ice Climber be called a Nintendo standout a lot of times because of Smash.

Not to mention that most of Smash's roster is Nintendo characters, and pretty much every standout is reprsented. There's only two Microsoft characters in Smash, and neither of them were created with Xbox in mind.

that’s because the series started out as a Nintendo crossover. Plus Nintendo characters are always going to be numerous on the roster cause they don’t have to license them

the characters weren’t chosen with Xbox in mind. They were chosen cause we Nintendo fans have a huge soft spot for BK and cause minecraft is the biggest selling game

they no more represent the Xbox than cloud does the ps1

 

[AlRex]

Master Chief and DOOM Slayer should both get in. Microsoft, at this point, owns a lot of characters/series that are fairly important in some way. Fallout, Warcraft, StarCraft, Diablo, Guitar Hero, Pitfall, Call of Duty, Crash, Spyro, probably more I’m forgetting…

Honestly Smash is kind of muddled with what its purpose began as, and what its marketed as and thought of by fans as now. Like a decade or so ago, people would’ve just considered it ridiculous to have Master Chief (or Cloud, for that matter) even considered as an option. So Banjo’s inclusion more reflects the past thinking than the present. It mildly reminds me of the fandom infighting before both Banjo and Steve got in. If there is another game with a lot of third parties, I’d prefer Master Chief (and possibly a few others) get in in addition to Banjo and Steve, not instead of them, though that may depend more on what the game’s purpose is stated to be. I do kind of like the idea of a Nintendo VS Microsoft title, possibly.

Anyways, the real question is: where is the pinball representation in Smash? And I ain’t talking Waluigi Pinball, either!

 

[Ze Diglett]

The idea that characters have to "represent" their home companies was always kinda silly to me. I don't care if Banjo or Crash represent Microsoft or whatever (especially since neither of them started as Microsoft properties), they're cool characters and that's good enough for me. It's like how a lot of people during Ultimate's hype cycle were saying Lara Croft absolutely NEEDED to get in before Geno because she represented Square Enix better... what? If anything, Lara Croft should get in on her own merits, not because she "represents" a company that only acquired her series as it was rapidly losing relevance. (Of course, she's not even owned by Square Enix anymore, so that's not an issue now, but the point still stands.) Really, a character's corporate affiliation shouldn't bar them entry to Smash in the first place, and the doctrine that everyone else needs to get in line behind their company's "proper" representative is exactly the kind of talk that made me bow out of Smash speculation in the first place.

 

[Lenidem]

Also Piranha Plant was a great choice, the kind of pick that should really be the norm and not the exception.

 

[Baysha]

Personally, I feel like "the first character must represent their company well" mentality is extremely similar to the "the first character must be a protagonist" mentality.

 

[Opossum]

While I agree that a character first and foremost being a company representative is a bit dumb and off-base, I also don't blame some for seeing it that way...especially since some marketing decisions really make it seem that way. Case in point being the English fighter tagline for Banjo and Kazooie ("Raring to Go") which definitely didn't help matters lol.

 

[Kold Pizza]

I confess these as my unpopular opinions given that I view Smash in a different lens than many casual players.

I was never much into items. Ironically, in the early Smash games though, I enjoyed it more when there were fewer items and when they were more simple compared to now. Some of the items now really help tip the scale. Based on sheer luck, a powerful item such as the dragoon parts could pop up either right next to you or your opponent and that could be the difference in the match. I usually prefer to keep a portion of items out when I play multiplayer, if not all.

Also, I dislike the stage hazards. I get why the developers put it in though because it makes the stage look cool and interesting to a portion of their fans, but some of these stage hazards make playing on certain stages insufferable (looking at you, Mario Bros. stage)! A lot of times, I find myself switching a stage to its omega form because of the stage hazards.

 

[Baysha]

I confess these as my unpopular opinions given that I view Smash in a different lens than many casual players.

I was never much into items. Ironically, in the early Smash games though, I enjoyed it more when there were fewer items and when they were more simple compared to now. Some of the items now really help tip the scale. Based on sheer luck, a powerful item such as the dragoon parts could pop up either right next to you or your opponent and that could be the difference in the match. I usually prefer to keep a portion of items out when I play multiplayer, if not all.

Also, I dislike the stage hazards. I get why the developers put it in though because it makes the stage look cool and interesting to a portion of their fans, but some of these stage hazards make playing on certain stages insufferable (looking at you, Mario Bros. stage)! A lot of times, I find myself switching a stage to its omega form because of the stage hazards.

THIS! I know this technically isn't Smash, but it's similar, one time I played a match of Nick All-Star Brawl with all items on and set to max with four players on a "wacky" stage (the Junkyard) and while I was playing I seriously thought to myself, "people like this?" I seriously don't get it. I consider myself a casual player, but I play by competitive rulesets.