Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Quillion]

I was never much into items. Ironically, in the early Smash games though, I enjoyed it more when there were fewer items and when they were more simple compared to now. Some of the items now really help tip the scale. Based on sheer luck, a powerful item such as the dragoon parts could pop up either right next to you or your opponent and that could be the difference in the match. I usually prefer to keep a portion of items out when I play multiplayer, if not all.

You can customize it however you want in Vs mode tbf. It would be better if they could allow for customization in Classic though.

Also, I dislike the stage hazards. I get why the developers put it in though because it makes the stage look cool and interesting to a portion of their fans, but some of these stage hazards make playing on certain stages insufferable (looking at you, Mario Bros. stage)! A lot of times, I find myself switching a stage to its omega form because of the stage hazards.

This is why I want more neutral forms for the stages. I'd like Small BF and Smashville modes in addition to BF and Omega mode.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

THIS! I know this technically isn't Smash, but it's similar, one time I played a match of Nick All-Star Brawl with all items on and set to max with four players on a "wacky" stage (the Junkyard) and while I was playing I seriously thought to myself, "people like this?" I seriously don't get it. I consider myself a casual player, but I play by competitive rulesets.

Tip: turn off the Squidward's Clarinet item. The Reptar Wagon and Fenton Thermos too if you wanna go further.

 

[UserKev]

Smash has been seeing too many frequent releases. Brawl and Wii U truly felt special because they saw reasonable 4-5-6 year stretches. Rather your a big Smash fan or not, we're all sick of it because it barely has time to be innovative anymore.

 

[Lenidem]

Smash has been seeing too many frequent releases. Brawl and Wii U truly felt special because they saw reasonable 4-5-6 year stretches. Rather your a big Smash fan or not, we're all sick of it because it barely has time to be innovative anymore.

But I didn't have a Wii nor a Wii U, so I got that going for me, which is nice.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

On the topic of items, I like them enough in smash and think they have their place in it but I’m perfectly fine with items staying exclusive to smash and NASB, they really aren’t necessary for future platform fighters when development time could be used for other things

 

[Quillion]

Smash has been seeing too many frequent releases. Brawl and Wii U truly felt special because they saw reasonable 4-5-6 year stretches. Rather your a big Smash fan or not, we're all sick of it because it barely has time to be innovative anymore.

I agree, but in my mind, I tend to skip over Smash 4 considering how much Ultimate reused its assets and mostly built on top of it.

We'll probably return to the "long interval" by next Smash, and hopefully the series won't get stagnant by then.
----
The only advanced technique I'd care to bring back is DACUS, but expanded so that Dash Attack can be kara canceled into any Smash attack.

Everything else could be covered by the "wavedash button" dedicated mechanic I've been pushing.

 

[UserKev]

I tend to skip over Smash 4 considering how much Ultimate reused its assets and mostly built on top of it.

Ugh, such a common statement I cannot stand. Ultimate reusing Smash 4's assets is why YOU SHOULD NOT acknowledge it over Ultimate. Ultimate lacks its own identity, which is basically an extension of Smash 4. I guarantee if Ultimate didn't see a flud of returnee stages, you'd agree with me.

 

[fogbadge]

So does anyone think that smash as a celebration of gaming should acknowledge the first widely available video game and the first home and handheld consoles?

 

[Dinoman96]

Smash has been seeing too many frequent releases. Brawl and Wii U truly felt special because they saw reasonable 4-5-6 year stretches. Rather your a big Smash fan or not, we're all sick of it because it barely has time to be innovative anymore.

Hopefully Sakurai's working on an original project ala Kid Icarus Uprising or Meteos.

 

[fogbadge]

So does anyone think that smash as a celebration of gaming should acknowledge the first widely available video game and the first home and handheld consoles?

oh bother, wrong thread

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Generic Waddle Dee >>>>> Bandana Waddle Dee

 

[Lenidem]

So does anyone think that smash as a celebration of gaming should acknowledge the first widely available video game and the first home and handheld consoles?

If Smash was truly a celebration of gaming, perhaps.

 

[fogbadge]

If Smash was truly a celebration of gaming, perhaps.

trouble is, its such a broad term

 

[Lenidem]

trouble is, its such a broad term

Indeed. Recently, Smash have broaden its horizon, that's for sure. But its content is still roughly 80% Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

Indeed. Recently, Smash have broaden its horizon, that's for sure. But its content is still roughly 80% Nintendo.

which is how it should be

 

[Lenidem]

which is how it should be

Arguably. But as much as I love Nintendo, characters like Rosalina, Bowser Jr, Greninja, Corin, and many other are mere anecdotes to the "history of gaming", at least compared to Master Chief, Lara Croft, Ezio, and the likes. And I would love a new "Nintendo-only" Smash entry, but I would also love a true "celebration of gaming as a whole" Smash entry were Nintendo characters occupy a small part of the roster.

 

[fogbadge]

Arguably. But as much as I love Nintendo, characters like Rosalina, Bowser Jr, Greninja, Corin, and many other are mere anecdotes to the "history of gaming", at least compared to Master Chief, Lara Croft, Ezio, and the likes. And I would love a new "Nintendo-only" Smash entry, but I would also love a true "celebration of gaming as a whole" Smash entry were Nintendo characters occupy a small part of the roster.

but "history of gaming" isn't synonymous with " celebration of gaming" so what does it matter

 

[Lenidem]

but "history of gaming" isn't synonymous with " celebration of gaming" so what does it matter

Are you really saying that "celebrating gaming" has nothing to do with the "history of gaming"?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I guess a lot of people may interpret "celebration of gaming" as "the most popular game heroes", in the sense of having characters like Dante; Shantae; Crash; or most of Smash's 1P cast who aren't that influential in the grand scheme of things but have really devoted fandoms, rather than "the most important game heroes"; in the sense of focusing on revolutionary genre- or even industry-changing games even if they may not really have fleshed out characters or worlds to be attached to; - like The Sims; Pong; Need for Speed; or Tetris - have had a hit in public reputation since release; - like CoD; Fortnite; Angry Birds; or Warcraft - or share little overlap with Smash's fandom - like pretty much any 1P Sony or non-acquired Microsoft IP.

If you choose to view it as the prior I guess I can see why SSBU would be considered satisfactory in being a "gaming history celebration", but I'd personally prefer the latter.

 

[fogbadge]

Are you really saying that "celebrating gaming" has nothing to do with the "history of gaming"?

no i'm saying they don't mean the same thing. like i said "celebration of gaming" is a broad term "history of gaming" not so much. the former could mean, important parts, the most well known parts or even just selective parts. which is what smash is.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I wish Smash fans would take stages as seriously as fighters - I feel we'd end up with a much more interesting stage lineup if the devs recieved more feedback on them

Cross-series echoes are just the coolest ****. In general, reskins are my favourite thing in gaming and I wish more games would embrace them. There's just something so rad about showing the same moveset visually modified to be applied to two wildly different characters - it kinda breaks the immersion a little and exposes the abstract design below the surface, which is something I greatly appreciate in any non-plot game.

 

[fogbadge]

I wish Smash fans would take stages as seriously as fighters - I feel we'd end up with a much more interesting stage lineup if the devs recieved more feedback on them

but then we can’t complain about fe out repping loz

 

[Dinoman96]

I wish Smash fans would take stages as seriously as fighters - I feel we'd end up with a much more interesting stage lineup if the devs recieved more feedback on them

Problem there is that fighters are basically the only thing Smash fans tend to actually care about lol.

It's why you have people who get horribly upset about seeing their MW end up as an assist trophy or something, when Sakurai himself considers it an honor. Or how people keep complaining about how Sakurai doesn't care about Zelda because he won't make one of the one-off side characters/villains playable, even though the series has a crapload of stages, music, items, assist trophies, etc.

 

[fogbadge]

Problem there is that fighters are basically the only thing Smash fans tend to actually care about lol.

It's why you have people who get horribly upset about seeing their MW end up as an assist trophy or something, when Sakurai himself considers it an honor. Or how people keep complaining about how Sakurai doesn't care about Zelda because he won't make one of the one-off side characters/villains playable, even though the series has a crapload of stages, music, items, assist trophies, etc.

its not just the one offs who can’t get in

 

[Lenidem]

Problem there is that fighters are basically the only thing Smash fans tend to actually care about lol.

It's why you have people who get horribly upset about seeing their MW end up as an assist trophy or something, when Sakurai himself considers it an honor. Or how people keep complaining about how Sakurai doesn't care about Zelda because he won't make one of the one-off side characters/villains playable, even though the series has a crapload of stages, music, items, assist trophies, etc.

At the same time, there is a reason why players care so much about playable fighters. There are by far the most important and funny part of the game.

I like the concept of assist trophies, but they are secondary. They're basically items. You don't control them, they do their pre-programmed moves, they appear randomly, and some of them are just horrible. If, like me, you're a Skull Kid supporter, you never know when and even if he's gonna show up in match... and when he does, you wish he hadn't, because his move is so frustrating.

And the playable fighters are also the best way to connect the players to the games they come from.

There is a reason why Ultimate's slogan is "Everobody's here", not "all the trophies" or "all the stages" (even though I would have loved it, especially the stages).

 

[Dinoman96]

its not just the one offs who can’t get in

tbh in terms of reoccuring Zelda characters, it's really just Impa and Tingle left that stand out.

But even they have issues of their own. Tingle for example is highly controversial in the west, so much to the point where he's been practically phased out of the mainline Zelda series with The Minish Cap from 2004 remaining his last real, non-spinoff (or remake) appearance. Impa isn't really very consistent in terms of appearances and would honestly probably just wound up as some kind of Sheik clone if she actually got in, thus not granting Zelda fans a new non-clone fighter they've been asking for.

 

[fogbadge]

tbh in terms of reoccuring Zelda characters, it's really just Impa and Tingle left that stand out.

But even they have issues of their own. Tingle for example is highly controversial in the west, so much to the point where he's been practically phased out of the mainline Zelda series with The Minish Cap from 2004 remaining his last real, non-spinoff (or remake) appearance. Impa isn't really very consistent in terms of appearances and would honestly probably just wound up as some kind of Sheik clone if she actually got in, thus not granting Zelda fans a new non-clone fighter they've been asking for.

controversy has never kept a character out of smash before and just because you think someone would be a clone doesn’t mean they would. Look what happened to Isabelle

 

[Lenidem]

tbh in terms of reoccuring Zelda characters, it's really just Impa and Tingle left that stand out.

There is also Skull Kid. Although he only had one major role, he's not a one-off. And there is Tetra.

 

[Opossum]

controversy has never kept a character out of smash before and just because you think someone would be a clone doesn’t mean they would. Look what happened to Isabelle

He specifically said "some kind" of Sheik clone. Isabelle herself is a semi-clone, which is itself "some kind" of clone. That really isn't the best counterexample.

 

[fogbadge]

He specifically said "some kind" of Sheik clone. Isabelle herself is a semi-clone, which is itself "some kind" of clone. That really isn't the best counterexample.

point was characters don’t always end up as we think

 

[Opossum]

point was characters don’t always end up as we think

I know that. My point was that you could have used a better example. For example, the folks who thought Mega Man would be doomed to be a Samus clone or insisted Rosalina would be a Peach clone.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Looking at how his moveset turned out, Mega Man should've been a Samus clone.

 

[Dinoman96]

Look what happened to Isabelle

...a character who is still clearly derived from Villager? By "clone" I just mean any kind of derivative character.

controversy has never kept a character out of smash before

It's not necessarily just his controversy, it's really his inactive status. Tingle's last real mainline appearance was back in 2004, and there's no real massive fan demand for him like there was with K. Rool. Why would Sakurai add him? That's the point.

 

[fogbadge]

...a character who is still clearly derived from Villager? By "clone" I just mean any kind of derivative character.


It's not necessarily just his controversy, it's really his inactive status. Tingle's last real mainline appearance was back in 2004, and there's no real massive fan demand for him like there was with K. Rool. Why would Sakurai add him? That's the point.

well sakurai did say once that relevance doesn’t matter

exactly how far that stretches is of course yet to be seen

 

[Opossum]

well sakurai did say once that relevance doesn’t matter

exactly how far that stretches is of course yet to be seen

If you're talking about the recognizability quote from Terry's presentation, that's not what he said. He said that characters should be fun, not JUST recognizable. That shows that recognizability is still a factor, just that a character still needs to be fun to play as well.

Meanwhile, one particular Sakurai quote does indeed show he values relevance. Namely, this one from his Famitsu column during the Smash 4 days:

"Also, characters and series that have no plans for future releases, or a low possibility of future releases, inevitably will be considered lower priority."

 

[Dinoman96]

If you're talking about the recognizability quote from Terry's presentation, that's not what he said. He said that characters should be fun, not JUST recognizable. That shows that recognizability is still a factor, just that a character still needs to be fun to play as well.

Meanwhile, one particular Sakurai quote does indeed show he values relevance. Namely, this one from his Famitsu column during the Smash 4 days:

"Also, characters and series that have no plans for future releases, or a low possibility of future releases, inevitably will be considered lower priority."

Like yeah, literally nearly every first party newcomer in Smash 4 and honestly even Ultimate were "relevant" and contemporary back then. The only real exceptions are the mega fan requests from the ballot like K. Rool and also Duck Hunt (Sakurai's usual wacky surprise rep like R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch).

 

[fogbadge]

If you're talking about the recognizability quote from Terry's presentation, that's not what he said. He said that characters should be fun, not JUST recognizable. That shows that recognizability is still a factor, just that a character still needs to be fun to play as well.

Meanwhile, one particular Sakurai quote does indeed show he values relevance. Namely, this one from his Famitsu column during the Smash 4 days:

"Also, characters and series that have no plans for future releases, or a low possibility of future releases, inevitably will be considered lower priority."

like captain falcon, the ice climbers, ness, Lucas, duck hunt duo and the kid icarus trio?

and then of course certain Pokemon have been low priority

 

[Dinoman96]

like captain falcon, the ice climbers, ness, Lucas, duck hunt duo and the kid icarus trio?

and then of course certain Pokemon have been low priority

Captain Falcon, Ness, Lucas, Palutena and Dark Pit were relevant when back when they were added, though.

So from that batch, it's just Pit (who too was a popular fan request according to Sakurai), Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt. Once again, just popular requests and obligatory retro/surprise picks.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

In my honest opinion, the roster for the next Smash game will feel incomplete without Viridi. She is one of the most major characters in a Nintendo cult classic, is the last missing Palutena's Guidance character, has moveset potential, is anti-hero representation, is Sakurai's own creation...the list goes on. Really the only reason she might not have been added yet is due to a lack of fan demand, which I hope will change if people start going back to KI:U or it gets remade or sequel'd.

Viridi should be in. Sasha Waybright voice End. Of. Discussion.

 

[Quillion]

In my honest opinion, the roster for the next Smash game will feel incomplete without Viridi. She is one of the most major characters in a Nintendo cult classic, is the last missing Palutena's Guidance character, has moveset potential, is anti-hero representation, is Sakurai's own creation...the list goes on. Really the only reason she might not have been added yet is due to a lack of fan demand, which I hope will change if people start going back to KI:U or it gets remade or sequel'd.

Viridi should be in. Sasha Waybright voice End. Of. Discussion.

Yeah, I'd wait for an Uprising remake or sequel before Viridi gets considered.

I use this example all the time, but it's like putting Bowser Jr. in Brawl. No one wanted him as a main series one-shot at the time.