Legend of Zelda Timeline Discussion

[Spire]

sorry guys its probably been explained before but i can't find it, why are we so sure the timeline split after OoT?

Because Eiji Aonuma said so.

 

[Phantom7]

LoZ >> AoL >> ALttP

This is guaranteed. Miyamoto said so himself, and I shouldn't need evidence, because we've all heard it. I just wonder why not enough people take this into account. I think it's also pretty obvious that LA follows ALttP, because it's definitely the same Link, and the art style and logo are very similar.

I was wondering, though, I wonder if OoS/OoA follow MM? If you watch the beginning cutscene of either game, Link (whose appearance is similar to OoT and MM) is traveling in Hyrule on a horse, toward what looks just like Hyrule Castle from OoT. What's strange, though, is it looks like each game occurs simultaneously in parallel timelines, so which one goes in which? And if one of them is a sequel to MM, which one is it, and would the other disrupt the OoT > WW transition? Or do they follow LA? It's all extremely confusing.

 

[Spire]

Miyamoto said so in 1998, along with when he said LA can go anywhere. So you decide, if LA follows ALttP, then LoZ/AoL > ALttP is not exactly true. If you want LoZ/AoL > ALttP to happen, then you must accept that LA not necessarily be a sequel to ALttP. The words of Miyamoto himself.

The Oracles stage three main concerns:
1. The Link seen riding on Epona is portrayed of an age halfway between that of his younger and older selves in OoT. Not as young, not as old. But he also strongly resembles the Link from ALttP and LA, with the addition of white tights. Also, with the updated ALttP artwork for the GBA, Link takes on an appearance very similar to that of the OoX Link.
2. Ganon is dead. The whole point of the Oracle games happening is that Twinrova is trying to sacrifice Onox, Veran, and Zelda to resurrect Ganon. This cannot follow MM because Ganondorf has: a) not been killed, b) not been transformed into Blue Pig Ganon, and c) has been imprisoned in the Twilight Realm. Basically, TP screwed it all up. Without TP, OoX could have potentially taken place in the Child Timeline.
3. Characters like Twinrova, the Happy Mask Salesman, Malon, Talon, King Zora, and many others all recur for whatever oddball reason. Holodrum and Labrynna seem to adopt the same concept of a parallel world that Termina introduced in MM, and seeing as how OoS/OoA were released following MM by not even half a year, it certainly seems like Capcom was trying to make reinterpreted gameboy Zelda adventures based off concepts introduced in previous games. It almost felt like the Oracles were greatly "homage" games, invented solely to pay respect to the games before it (style of first four games, characters of OoT and MM). Plus, Ganon was kind of an easter egg. It's like, "alright, you've managed to beat both games, now you get to fight you-know-who".

I hate the timeline. I've really considered leaving out most games due to them conflicting too much. There's the obvious, concrete timeline:

-------MM > TP
OoT -{
-------WW/PH > ST

And then the rest of the games that don't make much sense.

 

[theunabletable]

Miyamoto said so in 1998, along with when he said LA can go anywhere. So you decide, if LA follows ALttP, then LoZ/AoL > ALttP is not exactly true. If you want LoZ/AoL > ALttP to happen, then you must accept that LA not necessarily be a sequel to ALttP. The words of Miyamoto himself.

LA can be a sequel to OoX.

Just sayin'

Miyamoto order used to be correct, imo, but it's just too outdated now along with the OoT=SW quote.

Btw, according to Eiji Aonuma FS and FSA go before OoT.

Aye, I didn't see the text. In that case, I most likely agree. I've drifted far from timeline discussion, but I've yet to find a reasonable way to fit the "Four Swords" arc into the rest. It conflicts waaay too much.

Before OoT as was confirmed by Aonuma. Or before LttP. Either one.

What is your timeline, jw?

 

[Phantom7]

The Oracles stage three main concerns:
1. The Link seen riding on Epona is portrayed of an age halfway between that of his younger and older selves in OoT. Not as young, not as old. But he also strongly resembles the Link from ALttP and LA, with the addition of white tights. Also, with the updated ALttP artwork for the GBA, Link takes on an appearance very similar to that of the OoX Link.
2. Ganon is dead. The whole point of the Oracle games happening is that Twinrova is trying to sacrifice Onox, Veran, and Zelda to resurrect Ganon. This cannot follow MM because Ganondorf has: a) not been killed, b) not been transformed into Blue Pig Ganon, and c) has been imprisoned in the Twilight Realm. Basically, TP screwed it all up. Without TP, OoX could have potentially taken place in the Child Timeline.
3. Characters like Twinrova, the Happy Mask Salesman, Malon, Talon, King Zora, and many others all recur for whatever oddball reason. Holodrum and Labrynna seem to adopt the same concept of a parallel world that Termina introduced in MM, and seeing as how OoS/OoA were released following MM by not even half a year, it certainly seems like Capcom was trying to make reinterpreted gameboy Zelda adventures based off concepts introduced in previous games. It almost felt like the Oracles were greatly "homage" games, invented solely to pay respect to the games before it (style of first four games, characters of OoT and MM). Plus, Ganon was kind of an easter egg. It's like, "alright, you've managed to beat both games, now you get to fight you-know-who".

Ah, so I feel a bit more comfortable about the timeline I put together. All I would change now is perhaps placing one of the Oracle games in the child timeline or removing OoX all together.

Actually Spire, I feel like the Capcom games are the ones that confuse us and screw up the timeline. I think you can logically place the Nintendo games in order. In my opinion, it's most likely:


MAIN TIMELINE

_____MM----TP
OoT {
_____--------WW/PH----ST----LoZ/AoL----ALttP/LA

ALTERNATE DIMENSION A

OoS
{
OoA

ALTERNATE DIMENSION B

MC----FSA

 

[Spire]

I'm currently working on what I - for the first time ever - think might actually be the correct timeline. I'll have it posted when it's done. I know how cocky that may have sounded, but I'm not talking about something to convince you all it's right; it's the first timeline that's ever convinced ME that it's right. Every other I've either proven wrong during or after its writing. This one feels bulletproof right now.

 

[Phantom7]

I'm currently working on what I - for the first time ever - think might actually be the correct timeline. I'll have it posted when it's done. I know how cocky that may have sounded, but I'm not talking about something to convince you all it's right; it's the first timeline that's ever convinced ME that it's right. Every other I've either proven wrong during or after its writing. This one feels bulletproof right now.

Hmmm... I'm curious about what you've come up with. Let's discuss, shall we?

 

[EkulTheKing]

Can't wait to see it spire.

On a side note, as far as miyamoto/aonuma quotes go, doesn't ingame evidence come first?
For example, even though miyamoto said loz-aol-alttp, how did Ganon come back to life? How did hyrule suddenly become so populated? Why is the master sword gone for two games then back in the next game? And why do we go from one geography to another, then back to one very similar to the original?
Not to sound so negative about it, but I think that nearly any possible assumption beats a developer quote.

 

[Spire]

In-game evidence can overturn developer's comments, but the age of those comments also has a large effect on the current status of the timeline. Obviously Miyamoto cares less about the visual structure of the world as opposed to his story when it comes to the timeline, or at least he did back in '98. Since Eiji Aonuma has hijacked the series sense then, things have taken a very different turn and I'd say Miyamoto's comments may have been rendered wrong.

In a more recent interview with Aonuma (2004), he clarifies their intentions with the Four Swords games: http://www.zeldawiki.org/Timeline_Quotes. Just skip down to the Four Swords section. It also goes on to say that perhaps they were wrong in their intentions, but I'm working on a timeline that cements the [TMC > FS > FSA] arc before OoT.

 

[Phantom7]

My theory is that the MC/FSA arc is completely separate, as well as the OoX arc. My timeline consists of three timelines: the Split Timeline --

------MM--TP
OoT{
------------WW/PH--ST--LoZ/AoL--ALttP/LA

The Four Sword Timeline:

MC--FSA

And the Oracle Timeline:

-OoS
{
-OoA

@EkultheKing: There are many theories regarding how those game could be linked or not linked. Throughout the series, Ganon is revived multiple times, including his resurrection from under the Great Sea in WW (this still confuses me). There's probably a difference of hundreds of years between the games, anyway. Also, it seems in Zelda that the structure of Hyrule is never very important. TP and OoT both feature the same Hyrule, but they are significantly different from one another.

 

[Xyro77]

i cant find it anywhere so i guess i should post it here. if its old news, ignore it.

TP is se in the oot world 100 years after oot

http://www.thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1173582355&archive=

 

[theunabletable]

^Yeah it's way old news.

In '07 that interview screwed over a BUNCH of ZU theorists (linearism was alive and well until that interview (specifically the "parallel" line) destroyed it)... they call it Blue Swamp Day when that interview got fan-translated

Since Eiji Aonuma has hijacked the series sense then, things have taken a very different turn and I'd say Miyamoto's comments may have been rendered wrong.

The 1998 quotes from Miyamoto are definitely outdated.

Haha I got rather convinced of TMC-FS/FSA-OoT myself a couple weeks ago. The connections to LttP likely mean nothing and were left over after Miyamoto "upended the tea table".

 

[Phantom7]

Spire, please add this to the OP, if you will, in place of my old timeline:

Yeah, I noticed that the bottom part of TP's logo is cut off and misplaced, and I have absolutely no idea why. I'll have to fix that later...

Sorry for the slight page stretching.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

I always have stuck to this timeline and its gonna take some pretty convicing **** to make me change here this is it watch the whole thing: http://www.youtube.com/user/halohump899#p/f/24/F2g65jL3HDg

 

[Creo]

I always have stuck to this timeline and its gonna take some pretty convicing **** to make me change here this is it watch the whole thing: http://www.youtube.com/user/halohump899#p/f/24/F2g65jL3HDg

Well, for one time watching it through(stopped @ part about to mention), I noticed one mistake.
When people get lost in the lost woods, they become Stallchild, or Skull kid's, not Stalfos(which are different).
Remember, you don't age when you become a Stallchild, nor do they have the facial features of a Stalfos. I can't remember if that affected the timeline or not, but it blows the Hero's Shade thing away if I'm right.

*Edit:
I wasn't right. In fact, I made myself wrong.*

 

[zaneebaslave]

Stalchildren are lost children. Skullchild is a lost sprite or kokiri, and a Stalfo is a lost adult.
So People DO turn into stalfos in the Lost woods, as long as they're adults.

 

[Creo]

Stalchildren are lost children. Skullchild is a lost sprite or kokiri, and a Stalfo is a lost adult.
So People DO turn into stalfos in the Lost woods, as long as they're adults.

Agreed. I contradicted myself when I presumed Stallchildren were the SAME as Skull Kid, when in fact they are seperate entities(rather being one in the same to differ Stalfos, it was vice-versa with Skull kid).
My fault.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

Agreed. I contradicted myself when I presumed Stallchildren were the SAME as Skull Kid, when in fact they are seperate entities(rather being one in the same to differ Stalfos, it was vice-versa with Skull kid).
My fault.

Wich makes me think that this is flat out the best solution to the timeline mystery. He even sent it to nintendo. But thay gave him a stupid pre- writen letter.

 

[FAILchion-]

I always have stuck to this timeline and its gonna take some pretty convicing **** to make me change here this is it watch the whole thing: http://www.youtube.com/user/halohump899#p/f/24/F2g65jL3HDg

He really made some valuable points between Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess, especially with the Hero's Shade possibly being MM's Link, but the whole part with OoA/OoS/Four Swords/ALttP doesn't really make sense to me. I've always thought that TP and WW kill Ganon respectively, and since OoA/OoS seem to happen at exactly the same time (since it's never been clear whether it's actually that or which one seems to come first), at the end when you link the files together, you fight Twinrova and a half-resurrected Ganon. Since Twinrova died in the other timeline, I don't really know how they can be put in the same timeline as WW. And since they were trying to resurrect Ganon, I'd assume that he'd be dead in both timelines, and 'probably' seal up the timeline into one again.

That's just my viewpoint on it, though. But I guess that's why I love the timeline theory so much haha.

 

[Ganonsburg]

The only thing keeping me from thinking that TMC goes before OoT is that there are moblins. Are we just accepting that they are general enemies that Ganon rallied, or are the specifically monsters created by Ganon in his own image? I tend to think the second, which would mean that TMC cannot go before OoT unless Ganon was alive and did not use the ToP to create the moblins.

 

[theunabletable]

Since Twinrova died in the other timeline, I don't really know how they can be put in the same timeline as WW. And since they were trying to resurrect Ganon, I'd assume that he'd be dead in both timelines, and 'probably' seal up the timeline into one again.

To be fair, Capcom DOES like to reuse crap without caring at all for the timeline.

I mean OoX contains more similarities to LA than LttP does lol. That doesn't mean that those similarities are timeline relevant; it's far more likely that the developers were just lazy and weren't caring for the timeline at all.

To support this a little further, back when OoX was released there likely wasn't even intended to be a split timeline, let alone one that CAPCOM would know about. The only intent for a split timeline appeared in 2002, 2 years after OoX was released (remember, the developers had not intended a split timeline back in 1998 (according to Miyamoto and Dan Owsen).

If Twinrova's appearance in OoX didn't matter in 2000 even though Twinrova should've been dead (due to the timeline being linear, not split at the time), I can't imagine it is incredibly timeline relevant now.

The only thing keeping me from thinking that TMC goes before OoT is that there are moblins. Are we just accepting that they are general enemies that Ganon rallied, or are the specifically monsters created by Ganon in his own image? I tend to think the second, which would mean that TMC cannot go before OoT unless Ganon was alive and did not use the ToP to create the moblins.

What evidence is there for the latter?

 

[Creo]

I just stick with the fact that Miyamoto said OoT was first in the series(timeline wise)...so no, TMC shouldn't go before it. Isn't that really all the info we need(if the creator said it)? Unless there's something I don't know.

 

[Spire]

Moblins and the Timeline

The ALttP backstory suggests that greedy men followed Ganon and were transformed into Moblins, hence their swine appearance. This is really the only backstory for them. Every game they appear in features Ganon in some form or another:

LoZ: Ganon thwarts Hyrule
AoL: Direct sequel, his followers (Moblins, etc) are trying to resurrect him
ALttP: Ganon thwarts Hyrule
LA: A dream, does not matter
OoT: Ganon thwarts Hyrule
OoX: Ganon's followers are trying to resurrect him, hence he's around
TWW: Ganon thwarts flooded Hyrule
TMC/FS/FSA: While Ganon was not physically in TMC/FS, those were backstories to FSA, which he was in.

So... can we conclude that Moblins are obviously related to Ganon? He's a pig beast, they are pig beasts.

Although I'd like to note that the intro to TMC (shown through the stained glass windows) depicts a Moblin attacking Hylian citizens, and Vaati is the only antagonist in the game. Though, its backstory also tells of how all these monsters once roamed the world before being sealed in the Bound Chest to bring peace to the world. Vaati breaks the seal on the chest and unleashes these monsters back into the world. What it seems like is that at some point in time on one of the timelines, The Hero of Men (a Link we most likely haven't played as yet) was able to seal all of these monsters away. Since Moblins are in the mix, there's a chance that the Hero of Men defeated Ganon at one point, then sealed his minions away, which would mean that TMC/FS/FSA take place after OoT.

 

[theunabletable]

I just stick with the fact that Miyamoto said OoT was first in the series(timeline wise)...so no, TMC shouldn't go before it. Isn't that really all the info we need(if the creator said it)? Unless there's something I don't know.

Not anymore. It's been 12 years since then and there's been like 11 games since. It's outdated now with other alternatives.

@Spire: I'll have to recheck my Japanese translation of LttP to see, but I don't recall anything in it saying that he created the moblins. I'm in a hotel right now, though, so I can't really check until I get back to my house.

Since Moblins are in the mix, there's a chance that the Hero of Men defeated Ganon at one point, then sealed his minions away, which would mean that TMC/FS/FSA take place after OoT.

I don't remember anything in TMC implying that the Hero of Men (who was likely the old Swiftblade ghost guy (he teaches you a technique that only he has mastered, yet the Four Sword (which used to be the Picori Sword) is required for the technique. Which means he likely had that sword, which means that he was probably the Hero of Men. Could be wrong, though )) defeated Ganon.

 

[Spire]

@ SoM - Ganon did not create the Moblins, but men consumed by greed were transformed into them upon entering Ganon's new Dark World. Also, the "Hero of Men fighting Ganon" was simply an implication due to him having fended off Moblins (who according to my thesis, only appear in Ganon's wake).

 

[Ganonsburg]

So as far as the Moblins go, it seems we have a few options:

A) Moblins are a direct result of Ganon's raid on the Sacred Realm. Moblins did not exist before Ganon, and so TMC has to go after OoT.
B) ALttP was retconned, and moblins are a generic enemy that Ganon prefers to use, but Ganon's raid had nothing to do with them (aside from the possibility that they helped him). TMC could be before OoT or after, but likely before.
C) We ignore TMC (or at least the slight mishaps such as the moblins) because Capcom made it. If we ignore the small details, TMC could go before or after OoT, but likely before. If we ignore the game, we also ignore the other Capcom games.

I think there are a few more possibilities, but I can't think of them right now.

 

[Spire]

Most likely A. There were absolutely no Moblins in Hyrule when Link, the Hero of Time, was a child. Upon resurfacing as an adult, there were Moblins.

That just got me thinking about the Moblins role in LA. They populated a maze-like swamp with their boss, the Great Moblin at the end, just like the Sacred Forest Meadow in OoT. Anyways..

So yes, it seems as if the first Moblins were spawned ca. OoT, with waves of others following in TWW, etc. I drafted a bizarre timeline supporting TMC/FS/FSA's placement before OoT that I'll post later for kicks.

 

[theunabletable]

@ SoM - Ganon did not create the Moblins, but men consumed by greed were transformed into them upon entering Ganon's new Dark World. Also, the "Hero of Men fighting Ganon" was simply an implication due to him having fended off Moblins (who according to my thesis, only appear in Ganon's wake).

The NoA version said that they became members of Ganon's army. The NoJ version, however, did NOT.

People of greed were herded and consumed by this power, and disappeared.

It states that they disappeared, not that they went to Ganon's army.

Most likely A. There were absolutely no Moblins in Hyrule when Link, the Hero of Time, was a child. Upon resurfacing as an adult, there were Moblins.

That just got me thinking about the Moblins role in LA. They populated a maze-like swamp with their boss, the Great Moblin at the end, just like the Sacred Forest Meadow in OoT. Anyways..

So yes, it seems as if the first Moblins were spawned ca. OoT, with waves of others following in TWW, etc. I drafted a bizarre timeline supporting TMC/FS/FSA's placement before OoT that I'll post later for kicks.

Just because things didn't appear in OoT until a certain point doesn't mean that there had never been moblins ever prior to OoT.

 

[Spire]

Official Nintendo Magazine's Timeline (and mine at the bottom)

This is quite similar to a timeline I was working on a while ago, but never got around to posting. The image pretty much explains itself:

In case the writing is too small to read, it goes:

––––––––––––––––––––– MM – TP – ALttP – OoS/OoA – LA
TMC – FS – FSA – OoT {
–––––––––––––––––––––––––– WW–PH –*ST – LoZ/AoL

 

[ZIO]

I still really don't like the idea of Ganon and Ganondorf being two separate entities, if I'm seeing that right. I want to think of it like Aghanim (SP?); An extension of Ganon.

 

[Spire]

I still really don't like the idea of Ganon and Ganondorf being two separate entities, if I'm seeing that right. I want to think of it like Aghanim (SP?); An extension of Ganon.

My timeline actually suggests that there are two Ganons. Ganondorf I was born sometime prior to FSA and either during or before the game, he betrays the Gerudo by traveling to the Pyramid and stealing the Trident, which with its imprisoned demon, transforms him into Ganon. Link and Zelda seal him within the Four Sword at the end of the game and he is thus stuck there for centuries. Remember, a Gerudo male is born every 100 years, so a century later, Ganondorf II is born and Twinrova raise him as his surrogate mothers. Around the OoT/MM era, he is sealed within both his Dark World (corrupted Sacred Realm) and the Twilight Realm in the Adult/Child timelines respectively. Some centuries later (I used 300 as a placeholder), he breaks free in both timelines and is thus killed. Remember, Ganondorf II transformed into Ganon perhaps at three points in history:
1. At the end of OoT
2. At the end of TP
3. In his raid on Hyrule in the Adult Timeline (as depicted in the intro)

At this point (300 After Seal War), Ganon I is alive and Ganon II is dead. Ganon II was killed at parallel times by the Master Sword, and Ganon I is killed at parallel times by the Silver Arrows, in both ALttP and LoZ respectively. In the CT, he is falsely resurrected (or an aspect of him is) by Twinrova for the last time before finally being killed in OoX. Note: from a designer's pov, LoZ and OoX are also found to be parallel because OoS was originally designed as a remake of LoZ before being changed into what we have now.

Both timelines are ended at parallel times by Link's Awakening and Adventure of Link, both games where Link must fend off a shadow fiend in the end: in the first, a nightmare that takes the form of his worst foes including Ganon, and the second a shadow version of himself, Dark Link. Once both are defeated, Link (and the Wind Fish) and the original Zelda awaken to conclude "The Legend of Zelda".

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

I like ocarin hero's better in makes more scence to me.

Also I just realized the child toime line and the adult timeline are always seven years apart so games can never perfectly line up at the same time as eachother.

 

[Spire]

I like ocarin hero's better in makes more scence to me.

Also I just realized the child toime line and the adult timeline are always seven years apart so games can never perfectly line up at the same time as eachother.

So you like the idea of the Master Sword actually being the Picori Blade that Vaati destroys in The Minish Cap after Twilight Princess? If Link put the Master Sword to rest in the Sacred Grove at the end of TP, why would it (in a totally different form) now appear lodged in a magical chest to seal monsters away? Ocarina Hero's timeline is heavily based on his utterly wrong assumption that the Master Sword is the Picori Blade. Also, he believes that ALttP comes between OoT and WW. There are so many things wrong with that:
a) WW's intro says that there was never a hero to stop Ganon when he returned
b) WW's Hyrule castle is built on the bank of Lake Hylia, not in the center of the land
c) The Master Sword is found in the Lost Woods/Sacred Grove in ALttP, just like in TP
d) Ganon is deliberately killed in ALttP, but in WW, he had only been sealed away
e) The Triforce is restored in ALttP, yet in WW, it is split between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf

There are even more discrepancies that prove his timeline to be insanely false. Need more convincing?

 

[Creo]

So you like the idea of the Master Sword actually being the Picori Blade that Vaati destroys in The Minish Cap after Twilight Princess? If Link put the Master Sword to rest in the Sacred Grove at the end of TP, why would it (in a totally different form) now appear lodged in a magical chest to seal monsters away? Ocarina Hero's timeline is heavily based on his utterly wrong assumption that the Master Sword is the Picori Blade. Also, he believes that ALttP comes between OoT and WW. There are so many things wrong with that:
a) WW's intro says that there was never a hero to stop Ganon when he returned
b) WW's Hyrule castle is built on the bank of Lake Hylia, not in the center of the land
c) The Master Sword is found in the Lost Woods/Sacred Grove in ALttP, just like in TP
d) Ganon is deliberately killed in ALttP, but in WW, he had only been sealed away
e) The Triforce is restored in ALttP, yet in WW, it is split between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf

There are even more discrepancies that prove his timeline to be insanely false. Need more convincing?

^^Wow. Spire for the win!

@Spire:
Anyways, I always believed that LA was in fact AFTER ALttP and BEFORE OoA/OoS, rather the way you depicted after ALttP/OoA/OoS/LA. I must've missed where you elaborated this, care to for me?
Although, it holds little signifigance due to being a dream, but still...

- Would we need to have Tfprr(tingle)included in the timeline...

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

So you like the idea of the Master Sword actually being the Picori Blade that Vaati destroys in The Minish Cap after Twilight Princess? If Link put the Master Sword to rest in the Sacred Grove at the end of TP, why would it (in a totally different form) now appear lodged in a magical chest to seal monsters away? Ocarina Hero's timeline is heavily based on his utterly wrong assumption that the Master Sword is the Picori Blade. Also, he believes that ALttP comes between OoT and WW. There are so many things wrong with that:
a) WW's intro says that there was never a hero to stop Ganon when he returned
b) WW's Hyrule castle is built on the bank of Lake Hylia, not in the center of the land
c) The Master Sword is found in the Lost Woods/Sacred Grove in ALttP, just like in TP
d) Ganon is deliberately killed in ALttP, but in WW, he had only been sealed away
e) The Triforce is restored in ALttP, yet in WW, it is split between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf

There are even more discrepancies that prove his timeline to be insanely false. Need more convincing?

appart from that it seems the most logical and he probably has an explanation for those falts

 

[Spire]

^^Wow. Spire for the win!

@Spire:
Anyways, I always believed that LA was in fact AFTER ALttP and BEFORE OoA/OoS, rather the way you depicted after ALttP/OoA/OoS/LA. I must've missed where you elaborated this, care to for me?
Although, it holds little signifigance due to being a dream, but still...

- Would we need to have Tfprr(tingle)included in the timeline...

LA could follow ALttP or OoX. It was initially designed as a sequel to ALttP, but Miyamoto has since claimed that it can go anywhere. The Link depicted in it reflects his ALttP design because that was the current look. Miyamoto's idea suggests that it can follow just about any game (or now that we have more direct sequels, any game arc), because technically, any Link could set sail for whatever reason and have such a dream. The nightmare fought at the end takes the forms of Ganon and Agahnim during battle, so when trying to find a proper place for the game on the timeline, it makes sense to place it after either ALttP or OoX, because the two Links from those games fought both Ganon and Agahnim. I chose to place it after OoX because in the end of the linked game, Link is seen setting sail alone in a boat that looks very much like the boat in the intro to LA. Link does not seem to have a motive to set sail following ALttP.

And no, the Tingle games have nothing to do with the timeline. It'd be like trying to fit the Wario games into the already hardly existing Mario timeline.

appart from that it seems the most logical and he probably has an explanation for those falts

Oh he had an explanation alright. It's in his youtube video, and it's full of fallacies. You're blindly following because he made a youtube video that got some attention.

 

[Creo]

appart from that it seems the most logical and he probably has an explanation for those falts

The only explanation to fallicies are:
1- Redirecting to the correct answer
2- There is none...because it's wrong.

Just accept he's wrong. Good effort, but faults are faults. It's not the first time someone has been wrong on this matter.
He's obviously "..done his homework." incorrectly.

LA could follow ALttP or OoX. It was initially designed as a sequel to ALttP, but Miyamoto has since claimed that it can go anywhere. The Link depicted in it reflects his ALttP design because that was the current look. Miyamoto's idea suggests that it can follow just about any game (or now that we have more direct sequels, any game arc), because technically, any Link could set sail for whatever reason and have such a dream. The nightmare fought at the end takes the forms of Ganon and Agahnim during battle, so when trying to find a proper place for the game on the timeline, it makes sense to place it after either ALttP or OoX, because the two Links from those games fought both Ganon and Agahnim. I chose to place it after OoX because in the end of the linked game, Link is seen setting sail alone in a boat that looks very much like the boat in the intro to LA. Link does not seem to have a motive to set sail following ALttP.

And no, the Tingle games have nothing to do with the timeline. It'd be like trying to fit the Wario games into the already hardly existing Mario timeline.

Oh he had an explanation alright. It's in his youtube video, and it's full of fallacies. You're blindly following because he made a youtube video that got some attention.

Alright, so it is pretty much preference as to which 2 games it could follow..no direct answer.
El oh el. I see your point on the Tingle game..I just had to be sure.

 

[Wuss]

Why/How are ganon and ganondorf two different beings? What evidence is there to suggest it?

Also, Spire, about your timeline, would you say that games in which ganon dies, ganon is actually 100% dead? and how does that affect the timeline besides the obvious? aka, games with ganon, cannot go after games in which ganon dies.

Edit: btw, these are just innocent questions, I'm not insulting anyone's logic or anything of the sort, I'm just unclear on the details here.

 

[Spire]

Alright, so it is pretty much preference as to which 2 games it could follow..no direct answer.

Which is why I decided to place it at the very end of the timeline. If it could follow any game/arc in the series, why not follow all in one timeline and make sense in its placement? This is why I place it after OoX.

Why/How are ganon and ganondorf two different beings? What evidence is there to suggest it?

Also, Spire, about your timeline, would you say that games in which ganon dies, ganon is actually 100% dead? and how does that affect the timeline besides the obvious? aka, games with ganon, cannot go after games in which ganon dies.

Two games have concretely given backstories to Ganondorf: Ocarina of Time and Four Swords Adventures. OoT depicts Ganon conducting the Gerudo under his command. In FSA, Ganon is referred to as a desert nomad, recently expelled from the Gerudo Tribe by breaking their taboo and exploring the Desert Pyramid where he found the Trident which transformed him into the blue pig beast he has often been seen as. These are two very different backstories for Ganondorf, and if you recall, there was text in OoT saying that a Gerudo male is born every 100 years. This further supports the possibility that there are actually two known Ganons in the Zeldaverse, just as Link and Zelda have been reborn time and again.

Ganon has fallen victim to two fates many times: death and imprisonment. I'll list which games include which fate:
LoZ - death (Silver Arrows)
AoL - N/A
ALttP - death (Silver Arrows)
LA - N/A
OoT: imprisonment (Sacred Realm)
MM: N/A
OoX: resurrection and death
FS: N/A
WW: death (Master Sword)
FSA: imprisonment (Four Sword)
TMC: N/A
TP: death (Master Sword)
PH: N/A
ST: N/A

So let's further break this down...

The Silver Arrows were featured in LoZ and ALttP and were used to deliberately kill Ganon. Come OoT, the Silver Arrows were conceptually broken in two: bestowing half their power in the new Light Arrows (used to stun Ganon) and the then-existing Master Sword (used to defeat/seal/kill Ganon). In OoT, the Master Sword did not kill Ganon, rather helped in sealing him within the Sacred Realm. The Master Sword returns in WW and TP and is used to - as the games seem to suggest - kill him indefinitely. He does not make a return in WW's sequels: PH or ST in any way, shape, or form. As of right now, he certainly seems dead in both timelines. Following TP, I believe ALttP takes place for many obvious reasons. Ganon returns however, but not at all like who I dub Ganon II to be. This Ganon:
a) resembles Ganon I from FSA, and
b) according to both the booklet packaged with the game and the intro to ALttP, he never died in the past, but was simply sealed away in the Dark World.

So in an analogy form:
TP : WW :: ALttP : LoZ // Ganon II's Master Sword deaths :: Ganon I's Silver Arrow deaths

What I find even more interesting is how similar WW and PH are to LoZ and AoL, and how TP is to ALttP. LoZ/AoL, and ALttP are the classics (minus LA), and WW/PH, and TP are the moderns. In both LoZ and WW, a Triforce is broken into 8 pieces and Link must traverse Hyrule to find them. In both AoL and PH, Link explores an even larger portion of the world and in the end, must fight a phantom of sorts: Bellum and Dark Link respectively to awaken both Zelda and The Ocean King. ALttP and TP are similar in their stories (Ganon stuck in parallel dark world, controls minions Agahnim and Zant to usurp Hyrule's throne and sheath the land in darkness; Link draws Master Sword from pedestal in Lost Woods/Sacred Grove and becomes an animal upon entering the Dark World/Twilight Realm) and what not so much. I'm just rambling on with ideas that I've recognized over time, so I'll stop now.

Any more questions will happily be answered.

 

[Wuss]

Thanks, Spire, that's really helpful actually. I guess I just for some reason always assumed that every ganon/dorf was the same.

I would like to ask also, however, about your opinion on that guy's theory about the dead spirit guy that teaches you in TP. Do you agree that he is the OoT link, now a stalfos?