Legend of Zelda Timeline Discussion

[Phantom7]

Thanks, Spire, that's really helpful actually. I guess I just for some reason always assumed that every ganon/dorf was the same.

I would like to ask also, however, about your opinion on that guy's theory about the dead spirit guy that teaches you in TP. Do you agree that he is the OoT link, now a stalfos?

I don't necessarily believe he became a Stalfos. He was given the title "Hero's Shade", indicating that he may simply be a phantom left over after the Hero of Time's death. Hypothetically, he is parallel to the Hero of Time in the adult timeline.

 

[theunabletable]

Miyamoto's idea suggests that it can follow just about any game (or now that we have more direct sequels, any game arc), because technically, any Link could set sail for whatever reason and have such a dream. The nightmare fought at the end takes the forms of Ganon and Agahnim during battle, so when trying to find a proper place for the game on the timeline, it makes sense to place it after either ALttP or OoX, because the two Links from those games fought both Ganon and Agahnim. I chose to place it after OoX because in the end of the linked game, Link is seen setting sail alone in a boat that looks very much like the boat in the intro to LA. Link does not seem to have a motive to set sail following ALttP.

Well, I mean, it's backstory isn't exactly very exclusive...

The Japanese version makes it so it can pretty much go after any game where Ganon is defeated in Hyrule (except TWW)...

Just so you know, OoX/LA has like 14 exclusive enemies (enemies that ONLY appear in those two games), compared to like 5 for LttP/LA.

OoX/LA has: Angler Fish, Arm Mimic, Blaino, Cheep-cheep, Facade, Giant Ghini, King Moblin, Pincer, Pigblin, Pokey, Shrouded Stalfos, Smasher, Spiked Thwomp (there MAY have been one of these in one of the Four Swords games, I don't completely remember, though. So Spiked Thwomp may not count), Vire (boss form).

LttP/LA has: Bomber, Agahnim, Hinox, Lanmola (boss form), Moldorm (boss form)

I'd say Capcom intended for OoX to lead into LA, but Idk what Nintendo's intent was.

 

[Spire]

I don't necessarily believe he became a Stalfos. He was given the title "Hero's Shade", indicating that he may simply be a phantom left over after the Hero of Time's death. Hypothetically, he is parallel to the Hero of Time in the adult timeline.

This is a good point that I've not thought of before. There is no known Hero of Time in the Child Timeline (though TP does reference 'the hero' in various contexts), suggesting that Link did do something after MM. The Hero's Bow would'nt be named as such if it wasn't used by a hero. So, the Hero's Shade is the phantom of - hate to be redundant - a hero, and is thus, a conceptual parallel to the Hero of Time.

Well, I mean, it's backstory isn't exactly very exclusive...

The Japanese version makes it so it can pretty much go after any game where Ganon is defeated in Hyrule (except TWW)...

Just so you know, OoX/LA has like 14 exclusive enemies (enemies that ONLY appear in those two games), compared to like 5 for LttP/LA.

OoX/LA has: Angler Fish, Arm Mimic, Blaino, Cheep-cheep, Facade, Giant Ghini, King Moblin, Pincer, Pigblin, Pokey, Shrouded Stalfos, Smasher, Spiked Thwomp (there MAY have been one of these in one of the Four Swords games, I don't completely remember, though. So Spiked Thwomp may not count), Vire (boss form).

LttP/LA has: Bomber, Agahnim, Hinox, Lanmola (boss form), Moldorm (boss form)

I'd say Capcom intended for OoX to lead into LA, but Idk what Nintendo's intent was.

Word, man. Another reason why I place LA after OoX.

 

[theunabletable]

Word, man. Another reason why I place LA after OoX.

There's some other stuff too. I hate geography, but if you're into that kind of evidence OoS and LA maps are incredibly similar.

Wasn't the Hero's Shade one of TP Link's ancestors? Like weren't they from the same bloodline?

My knowledge on TP stuff is rather pitiful (I didn't like the game much) compared to, say, OoX/LA

 

[Spire]

There's some other stuff too. I hate geography, but if you're into that kind of evidence OoS and LA maps are incredibly similar.

Wasn't the Hero's Shade one of TP Link's ancestors? Like weren't they from the same bloodline?

My knowledge on TP stuff is rather pitiful (I didn't like the game much) compared to, say, OoX/LA

Yeah, I've looked into the geographical similarities between Holodrum and Koholint Island. It certainly seems like Capcom designed OoX to lead into LA.

And yes, the Hero's Shade is TP Link's ancestor. It is heavily implied that he is the Hero of Time, but because the games are centuries apart, he really could be someone else (it'd be awesome to play a game starring him).

 

[ZIO]

I never noticed any reference to OoT in TP. I didn't see mention of the Hero fo Time or that the Triforce was comprised of three separate powers made whole (Courage, Power, Wisdom), but only called it the Golden Power. No real reference to sages. All of which WW had.


I'm not getting at anything here ... Just talking. :.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

LA could follow ALttP or OoX. It was initially designed as a sequel to ALttP, but Miyamoto has since claimed that it can go anywhere. The Link depicted in it reflects his ALttP design because that was the current look. Miyamoto's idea suggests that it can follow just about any game (or now that we have more direct sequels, any game arc), because technically, any Link could set sail for whatever reason and have such a dream. The nightmare fought at the end takes the forms of Ganon and Agahnim during battle, so when trying to find a proper place for the game on the timeline, it makes sense to place it after either ALttP or OoX, because the two Links from those games fought both Ganon and Agahnim. I chose to place it after OoX because in the end of the linked game, Link is seen setting sail alone in a boat that looks very much like the boat in the intro to LA. Link does not seem to have a motive to set sail following ALttP.

And no, the Tingle games have nothing to do with the timeline. It'd be like trying to fit the Wario games into the already hardly existing Mario timeline.

Oh he had an explanation alright. It's in his youtube video, and it's full of fallacies. You're blindly following because he made a youtube video that got some attention.

wrong I am following because that time line seems the most logical, I am not someone who blindly follows something for no reason. there are many other timeline theorys on youtube that have lots of attention aswell but you dont see me leaping for those also do you?

 

[Phantom7]

I never noticed any reference to OoT in TP. I didn't see mention of the Hero fo Time or that the Triforce was comprised of three separate powers made whole (Courage, Power, Wisdom), but only called it the Golden Power. No real reference to sages. All of which WW had.


I'm not getting at anything here ... Just talking. :.

Every example you mentioned could be an example of how TP does reference OoT. The Hero's Shade is obviously the ancient Hero of Time, and the Sages, with that particular title, only appeared in OoT and WW. The emblems on dungeon doors, like in the Forest Temple, Goron Mines, and Lakebed Temple are all OoT references. The Serenade of Water even plays as background music when Rutela gives Link the Zora Armor. I could go on, but I don't have time to recite the numerous OoT references I can remember.

 

[Spire]

Every example you mentioned could be an example of how TP does reference OoT. The Hero's Shade is obviously the ancient Hero of Time, and the Sages, with that particular title, only appeared in OoT and WW. The emblems on dungeon doors, like in the Forest Temple, Goron Mines, and Lakebed Temple are all OoT references. The Serenade of Water even plays as background music when Rutela gives Link the Zora Armor. I could go on, but I don't have time to recite the numerous OoT references I can remember.

Well, the mere fact that Link carries the hero's blood completely suggests that he's a descendant of Link from OoT, because as we all know – the Link bloodline is the hero's bloodline... except in the WW arc, because it specifically states that WW Link is not of OoT Link's blood.

But yes, all your other points make a valid argument.

 

[ZIO]

Well, nothing was ever clear and out there. They expect us to assume, if there was anything to assume. Not like WW and in the end when Ganondorf notes that Link was the Hero of Time (after you defeat Puppet Ganon).

Aye, I only think that the Triforce is viewed differently in the TP end of the timeline. Since it's only referred to as the Golden Power and never been split (this is the child link side, right?).

 

[Phantom7]

Well, nothing was ever clear and out there. They expect us to assume, if there was anything to assume. Not like WW and in the end when Ganondorf notes that Link was the Hero of Time (after you defeat Puppet Ganon).

I'll admit, they do. TP and WW both had many OoT references, but in each game, OoT was referenced in a different manner. In TP, they were little details, and in WW, they were major story elements. You see, TP had lots of little references while WW had a few major references.

Aye, I only think that the Triforce is viewed differently in the TP end of the timeline. Since it's only referred to as the Golden Power and never been split (this is the child link side, right?).[/COLOR]

Actually, somehow the Triforce is split in the child timeline, as well. (Since the Triforce only split on the adult timeline in OoT, I'm not sure what event caused it to split in both timelines) In TP, the Triforce is separated between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

 

[Wuss]

In some ways isn't MM completely irrelevant to the time line? Is the only reason it comes after OoT because Aounuma said so? It could go anywhere theoretically, couldn't it?

 

[Spire]

In some ways isn't MM completely irrelevant to the time line? Is the only reason it comes after OoT because Aounuma said so? It could go anywhere theoretically, couldn't it?

Yes.. except for the fact that Link begins the game with the Ocarina of Time, which has only been featured in OoT and MM.

 

[Creo]

In some ways isn't MM completely irrelevant to the time line? Is the only reason it comes after OoT because Aounuma said so? It could go anywhere theoretically, couldn't it?

The fact that he has the Ocarina of time and is searching for Navi says no.
**Edit**
Arggh, Spire. You beat me to the punch, el oh el.

 

[ZIO]

Actually, somehow the Triforce is split in the child timeline, as well. (Since the Triforce only split on the adult timeline in OoT, I'm not sure what event caused it to split in both timelines) In TP, the Triforce is separated between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

Aye? I don't remember this . . . But I guess they'll have to explain in another game. As Zelda sent Link far enough in the past to a point when Ganondorf didn't enter the realm, thus not splitting the triforce.

And I can understand the subtle things that reference OoT. Since it is the Child Link side, the time Period of OoT never had anything major happen, thus things went on as normal. Things go on, people move on, but remember, faintly their traditions. So, I guess it makes sense thinking of it that way.

 

[Anteo]

Hi all Zelda Fans, I've read the whole tread, and I have a question

As Zelda sent Link far enough in the past to a point when Ganondorf didn't enter the realm, thus not splitting the triforce.

Then why does link have one piece of the Triforce in OoT Ending??
(Look at his hand)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge8zd1ZR-hc#t=10m19s

 

[ZIO]

It's been a while, so I guess, maybe, I noticed, but forgot about. Still, it's not like they refer to it as Power Wisdom Courage.

Then how does the that triforce quest work in WW? Who broke and split it?

 

[wing zrow]

This whole topic makes my head hurt. There's only a few games that should be connected. Majora's mask as a direct sequel to ocarina of time, the ds games as sequels to windwaker, and zelda 2 as a direct sequel to the original zelda. ( I could be mising a few )

Arguing about how they link together is just a waste of time. Time you could be actually playing the games and enjoying them with.

Miyamoto and the other people involved with the series creations couldn't have possible have expected the games to become as popular as they are, let alone have planned some master, all encompassing plot that was suppose to link all the games. I'm sure they had better things to do with the games development time than worrying about the stories.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Yeah, you could very easily just ignore timeline debate, which isn't hard seeing as it is pretty much confined to this thread.

It's going to be argued because Miyamoto and Aonuma have been announcing how the games work with each other since the beginning. Believe it or not, they actually probably DO have some master document relating the games to each other. Not saying that it's really all that easy, but yes, the games were intended to be connected to each other in some way ever since the beginning of Zelda. AoL was announced as a sequel to LoZ. ALttP was announced as a prequel to LoZ. OoT has been confirmed to split the timeline. See the pattern here?

And timeline debate is just another way for the fans to enjoy the games. May not be your cup of tea, but it doesn't mean you can come in here and insult everybody who does enjoy it, dude.

 

[Phantom7]

It's been a while, so I guess, maybe, I noticed, but forgot about. Still, it's not like they refer to it as Power Wisdom Courage.

Then how does the that triforce quest work in WW? Who broke and split it?

Good question. Theoretically, the Goddesses did it to further prevent evil from entering the Sacred Realm, only allowing the Hero of Wind to conquer the multiple challenges they left for him.

Hi all Zelda Fans, I've read the whole tread, and I have a question

Then why does link have one piece of the Triforce in OoT Ending??
(Look at his hand)

Hmmm... Interesting. I've never actually noticed that, but I think the Triforce remains the same in both timelines. If it is split on one side, it's split on the other. If it's merged on one side, it's merged on the other. What's difficult to figure out, though, is why it's like that.

 

[ZIO]

Really? Why do I remember readin somewhere that the Hero, before he left the land, split the triforce of courage . . . I'mma need to find that.

 

[theunabletable]

Then why does link have one piece of the Triforce in OoT Ending??

Because the first time any developer had intended a split was likely in 2002.

I mean I'd hate to just say "it's a retcon", but it is. In 1998 we know that the timeline was linear and Link had the ToC when he went back in time. In 2002 we know that the timeline was, at that point, split and the ToC was instead hidden.

Arguing about how they link together is just a waste of time. Time you could be actually playing the games and enjoying them with.

Posting here to tell us we're wasting our time is a waste of YOUR time.

I enjoy Zelda theorizing, sue me.

Oh and, you're wrong. The developers HAVE released a TON of information about the timeline. I mean if we were to make a timeline based on what the developers have said recently, it'd be something like:
-----------------TWW/PH
TMC-FS/FSA-OoT
-----------------MM-TP

With LoZ/AoL, LttP, LA, and OoX able to go in multiple places.

LoZ/AoL has practically no evidence that points to it going in any particular spot, so it can go almost anywhere, LttP was confirmed 12 years ago to be after LoZ/AoL, but I'd say that's outdated with the release of TWW and stuff like that; it can go in a lot of places (depends on your views on the SW, and stuff like that), LA fits very well after both OoX and LttP, and OoX fits quite well after LoZ/AoL.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but all credits goes to nintendo magazine:

SPIRE EDIT: Space conservation edit.

 

[theunabletable]

Just, by the way, that isn't Nintendo, that is Official Nintendo Magazine.

A good bit different

And I think Spire mentioned it on the last page.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

heh, yeah but it still gives a visual representation, which helps people understand easier.

sorry if it's already been mentioned, it is just spam then xD

 

[Phantom7]

Ahh, so when Link was warped back in time, he kept the Triforce of Courage. That makes some sense.

 

[Spire]

Ahh, so when Link was warped back in time, he kept the Triforce of Courage. That makes some sense.

Which is why the whole "divine prank" happened with Ganondorf receiving the Triforce of Power during his execution.

 

[ZIO]

How does that make sense? That's like, he takes the Triforce of Courage and leaves the other two behind in that timeline. What happens to the whole triforce, then? And then, in the other timeline, There's a whole triforce, plus another piece; the Triforce of courage from the other timeline.

wat?

 

[Spire]

He takes the entitlement, not the piece itself. That's how I see it.

 

[ZIO]

So then, the symbol on his hands would be just that; A symbol? How does ganondorf find his way to gaining it, then? I can understand Zelda, though. It's, like, her god given right.

 

[Ganonsburg]

I think because Ganon got the Triforce in the other timeline, he too was somewhat entitled, or destined, to receive the ToP. So when Link went back in time, he took his claim to the ToC, but the Triforce didn't just split then and there. Perhaps some spirits or goddesses kept the Triforce dormant and out of range for a time until they couldn't do it any longer.

Or maybe the split didn't have the right reasons to happen, but when the huge confrontation in WW on the other side of the timeline happened, and the Triforce pieces were actually being used, the Triforce on the other side of the timeline was forced to split. Out of the things that keep the two timelines parallel and related, I think the Triforce is one of the more constant ones because it had already existed in a parallet world and wasn't abiding by Hyrule's laws to begin with.

Just my thoughts, not really solid theories or anything, just brainstorming.

 

[Wuss]

I have a question for anyone willing to answer it:

What aspects of Hyrule are essential to the timeline? in other words, does the overworld map really matter in the timeline (because things would have moved around etc)? Do the sages matter? etc. I'm just curious what things are important when considering the timeline, and what aren't (they can unimportant for many reasons: retcon, not relevant, whatever.)

 

[Spire]

I think because Ganon got the Triforce in the other timeline, he too was somewhat entitled, or destined, to receive the ToP. So when Link went back in time, he took his claim to the ToC, but the Triforce didn't just split then and there. Perhaps some spirits or goddesses kept the Triforce dormant and out of range for a time until they couldn't do it any longer.

Or maybe the split didn't have the right reasons to happen, but when the huge confrontation in WW on the other side of the timeline happened, and the Triforce pieces were actually being used, the Triforce on the other side of the timeline was forced to split. Out of the things that keep the two timelines parallel and related, I think the Triforce is one of the more constant ones because it had already existed in a parallet world and wasn't abiding by Hyrule's laws to begin with.

Just my thoughts, not really solid theories or anything, just brainstorming.

Very good points Ganonsburg.

I have a question for anyone willing to answer it:

What aspects of Hyrule are essential to the timeline? in other words, does the overworld map really matter in the timeline (because things would have moved around etc)? Do the sages matter? etc. I'm just curious what things are important when considering the timeline, and what aren't (they can unimportant for many reasons: retcon, not relevant, whatever.)

Geography hardly matters at all because the look of Hyrule is - for the most part - based on the engine that the game is running on. For instance: Hyrule in ALttP is very different from LoZ, despite having the Lost Woods and Death Mountain landmarks. Come OoT, they took a number of concepts from ALttP and fleshed them out in 3D, along with transforming and expanding the world even more. But, just as LoZ's Hyrule takes place in only a section of the world that AoL is based in, so too does OoT only take place in a part of TP's Hyrule, though much has changed to fit the advanced WW engine for the GCN, and as such, the land has been reimagined, redesigned, and retconned for the sake of feeling current. There are about equal parts consistency and difference when it comes to the geography from game-to-game. The prime reason why people fester over the geography in part to the timeline is because of how important the geographical change of the world is in WW (and its sequels). So really, geography should be taken with a grain of salt, but sometimes that grain of salt can change the taste of the food exponentially and the subject will seem of utmost importance (i.e. Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule asked Link and Zelda at the end of WW to seek out a new land to re-establish Hyrule, so they did, and as such, with ST's New Hyrule, we have a basis for older games to be placed afterwards).

Now, onto the Sages. They're important for the most part because of two games specifically: WW and TP. WW depicts the seven sages (including Zelda) from OoT in the stained glass windows in Hyrule Castle, solidifying that it is placed in the Adult Timeline. Thus, any games with any mention of sages could follow the WW/PH–ST arc. However, with TP, we learn that there are actually older sages that strongly represent what the ALttP's Seal War backstory "old, wise men" have come to be known as. Since OoT, there has been a [most likely] misinterpretation of the sages in OoT and the sages (wise men) in ALttP's backstory. In ALttP, there are seven maidens, descendents of the seven wise men (who with the GBA re-release, were retconned as 'sages'). They are all Hylian in appearance. The sages seen in OoT/WW are: Hylian, Kokiri, Goron, Zora, Sheikah, and Gerudo (Zelda, Rauru, Saria, Darunia, Ruto, Impa, and Nabooru, respectively). Because of these racial differences, there's a much higher chance that the seven maidens are descendents of the 'wise men' sages (despite there only being six, five not couting the Sage of Water who Ganondorf killed prior to the game) seen in TP. Also, with the forested location of the Master Sword, there's even stronger a chance that ALttP follows TP in the Child Timeline, rather than being located somewhere along the Adult Timeline.

Now this brings up an important note: the backstory to ALttP is what fans call "The Seal War", where Ganondorf, King of Thieves finds an entrance to the Sacred Realm, leads his army into it, then slaughters them all before stealing the Triforce and using it to wish himself the most powerful being in the world. Upon doing so, he is transformed into the pig beast Ganon and is seemingly unstoppable. The Knights of Hyrule tried to fend him off, but the majority of them perished in their attempt. The knights did however buy the seven wise men (sages) enough time to create a seal to lock Ganon away in the Sacred Realm (which had been transformed into the Dark World upon his wish). One important note about the Seal War though is that there was never a hero to draw the Master Sword to slay Ganon. Now, this story is somewhat similar to OoT, and less so with TP, so there's a chance that it, altogether, may no longer even be canon. Also, we must take into account that the story could have been warped in many ways as it was passed from one generation to another.

Let's examine OoT as the Seal War. Before Link entered the Temple of Time, he found a wounded Knight of Hyrule in a back alley who had just been attacked by Ganondorf, saying that the rest were killed as he died. This signifies the "knights perished in their attempt to defeat Ganon" tidbit of the story. Link slept for seven years in the Temple of Light, and in that time, Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm, but rather than using the Triforce's power entirely, only received the Triforce of Power as his heart was not balanced. Consequently, the Triforces of Wisdom and Courage found their way into both Zelda and Link. But remember, in that seven year period, there was no hero to draw the Master Sword to slay Ganon(dorf) as he was in the Sacred Realm. So as an adult, Link awakens the new seven sages and together, they all defeat Ganon and seal him away within the Dark World. Overall, this story depicts the Seal War quite well, despite the discrepancies.

Now, OoT was created as a predecessor to ALttP, and because the backstory of the Seal War was all that existed at the time, it's heavily implied that OoT depicts it. ALttP was created as a prequel to LoZ/AoL, but Miyamoto claimed that it's actually a sequel back in '98 (reading: OoT – LoZ/AoL – ALttP). If it's a sequel, then Ganon was slain in LoZ, somehow resurrected after AoL, THEN the Seal War happened, but this is totally contradicted with OoT being 99% based on the Seal War. So this would read:

Seal War (OoT) – LoZ/AoL – Seal War (again) – ALttP

It could seem plausible to just say, "well the Seal War could have still happened before LoZ/AoL," but the mere fact that Ganon was sealed within the Dark World from the Seal War until ALttP debunks that. Miyamoto created a loophole timeline, and as such, is now falsified. ALttP does not follow LoZ/AoL. If: OoT – ALttP – LoZ/AoL were the order, then there would be an implied resurrection following Ganon's slaying in ALttP so that he could return to seek the Triforce once again in LoZ. This makes much more sense. By the way, Miyamoto also said that LA could fit anywhere at that time, so it could have been a sequel to OoT, ALttP, LoZ, or AoL. MM had not been created yet, so OoT still had room for LA to somehow follow it.

But now, we have so many more games, so many more stories to fit into the timeline, including the Four Sword Arc (TMC – FS – FSA), which in relation to the timeline, the developers (particularly Aonuma) want placed before OoT. It's a three-part "prequel" story to the main Zelda story starting with OoT. But, FSA raises a valuable issue: its inclusion of Ganon, which was essentially a huge mistake. Ganon(dorf) in FSA is given a totally different backstory to Ganondorf in OoT. How could there be two different Ganondorfs though? Hasn't Ganon been the same all this time? As I've stated before, there's one very important fact in OoT that solves this issue: one Gerudo male is born every 100 years. Thus, Ganondorf I was born not long before FSA, and in this time, he betrayed his people, the Gerudo, by entering the forsaken Pyramid and stealing the sealed Trident there. The Trident encased an ancient evil which transformed Ganondorf into the pig beast Ganon. With this power, he created his own Dark World to engulf Hyrule (similar to the Twilight Invasion in TP). The Link and Zelda that arose ca. FSA defeated Ganon and sealed him within the Four Sword. In the ALttP remake on the GBA, there is a Four Sword Temple deep within the Pyramid in the Dark World, a temple built around and to seal the Four Sword within. Seeing as how FSA seems to be both a prequel to OoT and ALttP, it seems as if what happened was that Ganon I was sealed within his Dark World in the Four Sword, but then escaped the sword and assumed the form of Agahnim to usurp the Hyrule throne in the Light World ca. ALttP. The whole "Seal War" backstory seems to be a hybrid story between the long-forgotten FSA events and the story of OoT, which was perhaps told by Link, the Hero of Time after being transported back into the Child Timeline (he experienced it all and hence, is able to retell the story of Ganon II). The people of Hyrule only seem to know of Ganon II, not of the ancient Ganon I, so Ganon I is mistaken to be Ganon II in ALttP. That being said, both Ganon I and Ganon II exist in both timelines because both were born before the split, and as such, both must be killed eventually...

..so what games depict these events? WW and TP kill off Ganon II. LoZ and ALttP kill off Ganon I. WW and LoZ are similar in structure as games (both games depict the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage being split into 8 pieces), and TP and ALttP have the countless similarities that I've mentioned already and in the past. It's as if history made way for two forms of stories to happen twice so that both Ganon I and Ganon II could be killed at the same time and in similar fashions. In LoZ and ALttP, Ganon I is killed by the Silver Arrows, and in WW and TP, Ganon II is killed by the Master Sword.

And with that, I'm done.

EDIT: Here's my current timeline that I'm basing my logic off of:

 

[MattV1]

I like everything you said Spire, up until FSA.



There's no doubt that, if you exclude the entire Four Swords Arc for a moment, the core events on the Child Timeline are Ocarina/MM - TP - ALttP/LA, with a potential number of locations for Oracles. And, while I disagree on games being after Spirit Tracks in the newly established Hyrule, I will, for the time being, ignore that.

I take FSA as being a distant prequel to ALttP. Why is that you might ask? Well, it's simple really. There are a number of obvious connections between ALttP and FSA. Artistic design, presence of Trident Ganon, 7 Maidens, and similar geography. Now I do agree with you that geography should be taken with a grain of salt, however it's clear to me that Nintendo blatantly made FSA's geography match ALttP's on purpose. Geography in FSA didn't matter and the world map was essentially a level select screen. Nintendo could have put anything anywhere and it wouldn't matter, but they didn't. With exception to Lake Hylia, all the geography in FSA matches ALttP, even the names of dungeons (Eastern Palace, Tower of Hera/Flames, etc.) FSA also gives us the cause for a big change, and that was the Forest of Light into the Lost Woods. In ALttP a number of NPC's mention how the Lost Woods was once the Forest of Light that housed the Master Sword. In FSA we literally see the transformation before our eyes as a result of Ganon's influence. There are, of course, other pieces of evidence as well. Years ago Ocarina was the Seal War, this is indisputable. However, the revelation of the Split Timeline changed that. The second half of the events in Ocarina no longer took place, and as a result, the Seal War never happens on the Child Timeline. This is something we all know, and as a result, the events of Twilight take place. Thus, we need a new Seal War, and Four Swords comes close to providing that.

In FSA we see the Knights of Hyrule perish before our very eyes. We see the Six Maidens and Zelda seal the King of Evil away. There is even evidence that, in earlier versions of the game, there was text relating to the Master Sword and the Sages. These things were removed upon Mr. Miyamoto's request, and what we got was a lighter plot. However to me it shows Aonuma's intention for the plot. FSA was going to beidge the gap left by Ocarina, clear up the inconsistencies caused by the revelation of the Split Timeline. Now obviously the events of the Seal War and FSA still don't match up correctly. I especially don't believe that the Palace of the Four Sword is meant to be canon, and even though doing so would help my theory immensley, it's just not something I can bring myself to do. In doing this I create one hole in my own theory, and that's the ending of FSA. Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword, how does that lead into ALttP? We would need another game for that. However, the seal of the Four Sword has shown to be weak in the past. It isn't unlikely that Ganon would eventually break out as Vaati did once before him, and eventually lead into the Seal War as we know it in ALttP's backstory. The Four Sword inevitably fails the second time around and the Maidens' descendants (once again known as Sages) seal Ganon away in the Golden Land / Dark World.

To me, this creates a fairly cohesive sequence of events. One thing that gripes me about your theory, Spire, is that you imply two Ganon's coexist at the same time. That just seems to be against the entire nature of Zelda! That'd be like two Link's happening to exist over the same span of time. Just for a moment, see things from the perspective of my timeline:

TMC - Ocarina - TWW - PH/ST
TMC - Ocarina *Child*/MM - TP - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - LoZ/AoL

*Oracles can go anywhere after LA or AoL, explanation forthcoming.

If you go by this we cover the bizzare turn of events that result in two Ganon(dorf)s hanging around. The first one appears in Ocarina and either claims the Triforce of Power, and is killed on the Adult Timeline, or fails after Link tattles on him, and gets sealed into the Twilight Realm. The end result on both timelines is the same: Ganondorf dies. In TP nobody except for the Sages knew who or what Ganondorf was. The people never knew about him, and the fact he was Hyrule's biggest threat was a well hidden secret behind the veil created by Zant. Later down the road, in FSA, the second Ganondorf would be born. Nobody would know this name, because Ganon was never a threat out in the open. The only people who do are the Maidens. One of them even mentions hearing the name Ganon, "no, not Ganon... Ganondorf!" That memory of Ganondorf was carried through the line of the Sages. This Ganon goes on to steal the Trident and transform into Ganon permanently. The first Ganondorf could become the Pig Demon at will because of his command over the Triforce of Power. But the second Ganondorf was forced into the change upon grabbing the Trident and would never revert to human form. This Ganon goes on to claim the Triforce in full, before being killed. The two Ganons have their differences. For example the first Ganon has the drawback of being made human, and as a result, can be killed by the Master Sword. Pig or Trident Ganon as I like to call him, can only be killed by the Silver Arrows with exception to Oracles, but even then his revival was not complete.

Think about how much more sense that makes. Two Ganons, two different eras, two different weapons, personalities, histories, and demises. No bizarre theory of two Ganons coexisting at the same time, everything lines up provided you use a small dosage of speculation.


Now, because I mentioned it: Oracles. Yes, Oracles. Great games, but people don't ever seem to know where to put them. People often drop them between ALttP and LA as a "middle-story" or sorts, while others call them a direct prequel to LA without LA itself being a sequel to ALttP. It is, however, impossible for Oracles to be a direct sequel to ANY game. Why is that, you ask? One key moment in a Linked Game. There is one important moment that dashes the entire notion that Oracles can follow directly after any game. Are you ready? You sure? Link meets Zelda for the first time! O.O Crazy, right? Okay, not really a big deal, Oracles can still be after almost any game, right? Wrong. Certain, pre-recs, have to be met for Oracles to occur.

First off, the Oracles need to occur on the Child Timeline. Why? Twinrova. The ancient witches are alive and well, and as a result, Oracles cannot follow on the Adult Timeline. Although I'm highly confident that no games follow Spirit Tracks for the time being, but that's not the point of this conversation. Next, the Triforce needs to be whole. At the start of either game you see a little cinematic of Link riding into, what most people say is Hyrule Castle. There he finds the Triforce, and it sends him on his quest. Let's just take a moment right now. We're down to after two, maybe three games. After TP (if, and only if the Triforce was recreated in whole afterwards), ALttP, and AoL. Okay, fair. But, if it is Hyrule Castle during the intro, then that means the Royal Family was in possession of the Triforce, and that means it's in Hyrule, not the Sacred Realm. Yep, so we're either after ALttP or AoL. Now, you can go ahead and put it anywhere after those two. I prefer post-AoL, just because Oracles were originally developed as remakes of the first two games with a third included, and it makes sense that Capcom would just slap their game at the end so they don't **** up any continuity. Between ALttP and LA works if and only if you're saying Oracles aren't a direct sequel to ALttP, in which case you're saying LA isn't, which is just stupid. So, to me, Oracles fit only after LA and AoL, and I prefer the latter.

So, in the end I have this:
TMC - Ocarina - TWW/PH - ST
TMC - Ocarina *Child* - TP - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - (Oracles) - LoZ/AoL - (Oracles)

 

[Phantom7]

So, in the end I have this:
TMC - Ocarina - TWW/PH - ST
TMC - Ocarina *Child* - TP - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - (Oracles) - LoZ/AoL - (Oracles)

Where's MM? Did you even realize you left an entire game out of your timeline?

 

[MattV1]

Typo'd

If you notice, I have it in the first version before I added in the other games. Not that it matters though. You could write a timeline that leaves out most sequels and nothing really changes. AoL and FSA were the only important direct sequels.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Spire, do you assume there's 2 ganons or what am I supposed to think of 2 ganon's in that pic?

 

[Spire]

Spire, do you assume there's 2 ganons or what am I supposed to think of 2 ganon's in that pic?

That is the basis of that timeline, yes. I'm still working on a proper response to MattV1's post. A giant post like that deserves a giant response. I hope to have it up soon.

 

[MattV1]

A dual-Ganons theory is really the only way a Zelda timeline can work. I just think it makes a lot more sense for the Ganons two exist at two separate times, and not in unison like Spire believes.

 

[Phantom7]

A dual-Ganons theory is really the only way a Zelda timeline can work. I just think it makes a lot more sense for the Ganons two exist at two separate times, and not in unison like Spire believes.

My theory of the timeline stops after ST, so I believe there was technically one Ganon, who existed in parallel timelines. However, I also believe that the Ganon of LoZ, AoL, and ALttP is not the same. To clear things up, my timeline theory goes like this:

____MM--TP
OoT{
________WW--PH--ST

The rest of the games, hypothetically, exist in a parallel universe.