Legend of Zelda Timeline Discussion

[Spire]

[collapse=Old OP]

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA: TIMELINE DISCUSSION​

I. Overview
II. FAQ
III. Timelines
IV. Archives


I. Overview:
This thread's purpose is to work constructively together to form the most accurate and proper timeline possible for the Legend of Zelda games. I would like to encourage everyone to take a shot at doing some research and stringing together your own timelines no matter how similar they may be to already existing versions. Try to explain at least in brevity why your timeline works they way it does to help those who do not possess the knowledge to understand simply by looking at it. Let's work together, bringing all of our ideas to the table to strip down, pick out the strongest fabrics, and weave together the absolute best timeline possible. Remember, confidence in what you believe is what matters the most. Stick by your beliefs and maybe you'll make a difference in the resulting outcome of our community timeline.

II. FAQ:
Q: Is there a timeline?
A: Yes.

Q: Do I have to believe in a timeline?
A: No.

Q: Despite what has been officially said, can I still form my own timeline disregarding continuity issues?
A: Of course. In fact, it is encouraged to be risky as it usually leads to new discoveries during research of the series.

Q: Are all of the games simply the same story told in a different way?
A: No, but there are certain games with stories that could be compared this way and are as follows. These are of course debatable:

• Legend of Zelda
• A Link to the Past
• Ocarina of Time
• Wind Waker
• Four Swords Adventures
• Twilight Princess

Q: Is the split timeline true?
A: Yes, Eiji Aonuma has confirmed it.

Q: Is the Ganon in every game the same Ganon?
A: This is to be debated. Ocarina of Time introduced the origins of his first incarnation, but Four Swords Adventures introduces a second origin story that differs greatly from the Ocarina of Time version. This may, and probably does, suggest that there are at least two Ganon incarnations within the series.

Q: Is the Triforce constant?
A: It should be given the utmost respect above and beyond all other considerations and aspects within the series. What is seen and said about the Triforce should be given proper treatment when devising a timeline. Of course, this is relative to your opinion, but is generally considered the most powerful evidence.

Q: Are the Capcom games considered canon (Oracle of Ages/Seasons and The Minish Cap)?
A: They should be, as Aonuma has stated that he would like to someday connect all of the core games.

Q: How does time travel in OoT work?
A: Here's a scenario:

August 10, 2009, 3:30 PM - You withdraw $25 and travel to the future instantly to the day of...

August 15, 2009, 5:25 PM - You spend that $25 on a DVD, then travel instantly back to the exact time that you came from..

August 10, 2009, 3:30 PM - You are now $25 less, but have a DVD and have wasted no time at all.

Get it now? Whatever Link does as a Child is permanent, but when he travels to the future, he can screw around however he wants and take whatever he can find back to his childhood; back to the exactly moment that he left that time to travel forward to being an adult. He can never go back to before any one moment in time as a child, only to his latest moment.
____________________________

III. Timelines:

There's Miyamoto's and there's Aonuma's:

Miyamoto's:
OoT [LA] → ALttP [LA] → LoZ/AoL [LA]

Aonuma's:
------MM → TP
OoT{
-------------WW/PH → ST

Now if we merge the two, it would either play out as:

Miyaonumato A:
------MM [LA] → TP [LA] → ALttP [LA] → LoZ/AoL [LA]
OoT{
------------------WW/PH [LA] → ST [LA]

Miyaonumato B:
------MM [LA] → TP [LA]
OoT{
------------------WW/PH [LA] → ST [LA] → ALttP [LA] → LoZ/AoL[LA]

Now, we can also include the Four Sword arc, which in the only known timeline mention of the games by Aonuma, places them before OoT (though given Miyamoto inflation, meaning his alteration of FSA's storyline, may place place it before ALttP):

Four Sword Miyamoto's:
TMC [LA] → FS [LA] → [FSA → (LA →)] OoT [LA] → [FSA → (LA →)] ALttP [LA] → LoZ/AoL [LA]

Four Sword Aonuma's:
-------------------------------MM → TP [→ FSA]
TMC → FS → [FSA →] OoT{
--------------------------------------WW/PH → ST [→ FSA]

Four Sword Miyaonumato A:
--------------------------------------------------MM [LA] → TP [LA] → [FSA → (LA →)] ALttP [LA] → LoZ/AoL [LA]
TMC [LA] → FS [LA] → [FSA → (LA →)] OoT{
--------------------------------------------------------------WW/PH [LA] → ST [LA]

Four Sword Miyaonumato B:
--------------------------------------------------MM [LA] → TP [LA]
TMC [LA] → FS [LA] → [FSA → (LA →)] OoT{
--------------------------------------------------------------WW/PH [LA] → ST [LA] → [FSA → (LA →)] ALttP [LA] → LoZ/AoL [LA]

And that's about as official as it gets, which really only leaves out the Oracle games. Though deciding which of the above is canon is the question at hand.


[collapse=timeline images]

--{====> YOUR TIMELINE SPACE <====}--​

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IV. Archives:

Spire's Old Timeline: Click Here

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[SkylerOcon]

It may be smart to put the current timeline into the OP, Spire.

 

[Clownbot]

Why put Spirit Tracks into the timeline when there's not much evidence as to where it would go?

 

[Spire]

Why put Spirit Tracks into the timeline when there's not much evidence as to where it would go?

We know for a fact that it's based 100 years after WW/PH in part to numerous sources after having played it at E3. I'm guessing that's something revealed in the intro.

However, I did read something recently that Aonuma actually designed TMC and FS to be a two-part prequel, meaning FS could very well come before OoT also. Along with that reading, FS and FSA may not be connected at all. This would change the timeline up quite a bit. Don't take my word for that though, as I cannot confirm its validity.

 

[Scott!]

Wow, I somehow missed that bit about Spirit Tracks being dated already. Not sure how that passed me by, but that's something noteworthy, and solid to put in. The unreleased game now has a more absolute spot than the first 4 Zelda games released, which makes me smile. Yes, I know we're pretty sure on what we've got, but we know where OoT stands, and where WW, and thus PH and ST, stand. Kind of backwards.

 

[Clownbot]

We know for a fact that it's based 100 years after WW/PH in part to numerous sources after having played it at E3. I'm guessing that's something revealed in the intro.

:embarrass Forgot about that. I know I heard it, I guess it slipped my mind.

Your theory on Zelda Wii is that it takes place in the child timeline, correct?

 

[Spire]

Your theory on Zelda Wii is that it takes place in the child timeline, correct?

Oh you remember that ? Yeah, that's what I stated. I won't type it up right now, but it entailed that the Link in the concept art was in fact the Hero of Time naturally aged (no 7 year warp), so the game would chronicle his third adventure after Majora's Mask. However, there's really nothing to prove this -- nothing, so we shall await more information regarding the game before considering placing it anywhere in the timeline.

But, if it does end up matching my theory, you can give my a high five or something.

 

[Clownbot]

Oh you remember that ? Yeah, that's what I stated. I won't type it up right now, but it entailed that the Link in the concept art was in fact the Hero of Time naturally aged (no 7 year warp), so the game would chronicle his third adventure after Majora's Mask. However, there's really nothing to prove this -- nothing, so we shall await more information regarding the game before considering placing it anywhere in the timeline.

But, if it does end up matching my theory, you can give my a high five or something.

I can't high five over the internet.

The Link in the concept art also looks kind of like TP Link, so it may just as easily be a sequel to TP.

 

[Scott!]

I think it was said by someone somewhere that the new one is unrelated to TP despite the similar style. I bet they will look similar in art style, though. But it's supposedly anti-confirmed as a sequel to TP, which surprises me, but whatever. I'll take whatever awesomeness they have in mind.

 

[Spire]

I can't high five over the internet.

The Link in the concept art also looks kind of like TP Link, so it may just as easily be a sequel to TP.

No, we've covered this a trillion times -- Miyamoto has already announced that this game has no relation to TP at all, but takes place elsewhere on the timeline (again, this recent statement shows how stupid NoA is). That is why I formed the theory that it may just be the Hero of Time revisited once again.

 

[Clownbot]

D*** it, forgetfulness is a b****. I've heard this stuff before, but it doesn't register whenever it's important to the discussion at hand.

Based on all the evidence, it's probably OoT/MM Link, unless it's a completely new one.

 

[Ochobobo]

Perhaps we'll get to see how the Hero of Time became TP Link's skeletal trainer.

 

[Phantom7]

Just for the idea of FS/FSA taking place before LoZ, I'm posting my timeline as well.

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs47/f/2009/178/a/8/The_Legend_of_Zelda_Timeline_by_Phantom_7.png

The reason for this is mainly because the map of FSA closely resembles Hyrule in WW. My theory is Hyrule was somehow restored from the ocean, and afterward, Hyrule passed through years of geographical changes until it became the Hyrule of LoZ.

 

[comboking]

TMC should not be first.

 

[SkylerOcon]

TMC should not be first.

It's the only game that could possibly explain why Link wears that ridiculous hat. I think it being first makes sense.

@Spire:

I think you should try to compile a comprehensive list of Miyamoto/Aonuma interviews that support the timeline. It will take a while, but it will definitely help for those who have questions pertaining to this timeline.

 

[Spire]

I think you should try to compile a comprehensive list of Miyamoto/Aonuma interviews that support the timeline. It will take a while, but it will definitely help for those who have questions pertaining to this timeline.

That's a great idea. It'll be beyond worth it.

 

[comboking]

Do you have any other facts that say TMC comes first?

 

[Spire]

Do you have any other facts that say TMC comes first.

Comboking, you should work on your syntax and grammar. You asked a question, so you must end the sentence with a question mark. This is something I've noticed, and honestly, it's pretty obnoxious.

Aonuma actually created TMC as a 'prequel story' to the Legend of Zelda series as a whole, and taking into account that Ocarina of Time is widely known as the first game, TMC gains the title of a prequel to it. Kind of like how The Hobbit is a prequel to the epic of The Lord of the Rings trilogy (with Fellowship being LotR's Ocarina), The Minish Cap is a prequel to the epic of The Legend of Zelda series.

Now, as stated before, Four Swords may also come before Ocarina of Time, as a second part to The Minish Cap.

 

[FAILchion-]

ENTIRELY MY OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS. LITTLE TO NONE OF THIS CAN BE CONSIDERED ABSOLUTE AND SET IN STONE.

---

The first game ever (storywise) is the Minish Cap, because that is the game where the Picori Blade is forged into the Four Sword.

Ocarina of Time is second in the series, because that's where Ganondorf is first introduced. He breaks into the Sacred Realm after Link enters, fills the realm with monsters (later becoming known as the Dark World), and steals the Sacred Sword of the Seven Sages (not the Master Sword), aka Ganondorf's unusable sword in the Smash series.

After Ocarina of Time, Hyrule splits into two worlds: Hyrule A, and Hyrule B. Hyrule A is the world where Zelda transports him to using the Ocarina of Time after defeating and sealing Ganondorf in the seal. Hyrule B is the world that Link left behind when he was transported, aka the ruined Hyrule.

Following Hyrule A, Navi disappears into the light of the Temple of Time, and a younger Link confronts Zelda to tell her about Ganondorf's evil motives. After Link leaves Hyrule to go search for Navi, a war ensues in Hyrule.

After the storyline of Majora's Mask is followed through, he leaves by boat, but is shipwrecked along the way, losing his weapons, triggering Link's Awakening. (Though, it's usually argued that LA isn't even canon, due to the fact the ending insists that the entire game was a dream. If that's true, then LA may as well just be skipped over.)

After getting to Hyrule, Link learns that Hyrule lost the war, starting The Legend of Zelda. Several years after, The Adventure of Link starts.

Now, here is where I usually confuse myself. I'm really not sure whether to put Twilight Princess or Four Swords Adventures here, but I usually go with the latter. But despite any confusion, Four Swords Adventures definitely goes after Minish Cap and before A Link to the Past. At the beginning of FSA, when Link pulls the Four Sword out of the pedestal, Vaati is released from his prison in TMC. At the end of FSA, Ganon acquires the Trident of Power, which he uses in ALttP.

After ALttP, I usually place TP here, because Ganondorf dies at the end of the game, leaving him dead in Hyrule A.

In Hyrule B, Wind Waker immediately follows. With Link being ripped out of the timeline in Hyrule B, the prologue states that when Ganon came back, they prayed for the hero to come, but he didn't. At the end of WW, Ganondorf dies and turns to stone, leaving him dead in Hyrule B. Phantom Hourglass follows WW.

Another great confusion is the Oracle games. I don't know which universe they take place in, but they seem to take place at the same exact time. When you beat both games and connect them, you get to battle Twinrova and Ganon's half-resurrected body, implying that he's been dead. At the end, both Twinrova and Ganon are killed.

---

This is how I view the timeline to be. Hopefully Zelda Wii will further elaborate and clear up some confusion. And I'd easily place Spirit Tracks after PH, assuming it doesn't mention Ganon in any way/shape/form.

 

[Scott!]

@Failchion: First off, we know that ST follows PH by ~100 years, apparently.

Also, AoL must be in the same timeline as WW (Adult Link). Why? Well, the towns in AoL are named after the 6 sages of OoT. They are only awakened as sages in the Adult timeline, so the towns that bear their name must follow them being sages. Thus, OoT --> WW --> AoL (with other games in there too).

 

[FAILchion-]

@Failchion: First off, we know that ST follows PH by ~100 years, apparently.

Also, AoL must be in the same timeline as WW (Adult Link). Why? Well, the towns in AoL are named after the 6 sages of OoT. They are only awakened as sages in the Adult timeline, so the towns that bear their name must follow them being sages. Thus, OoT --> WW --> AoL (with other games in there too).

Really? Where'd you find that?

The Adventure of Link came out in 1988, and Ocarina of Time came out in 1998. I highly doubt that Miyamoto would deliberately wait 10 years to name the Sages after some towns. I find it more of a cameo-esque convenience.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Really? Where'd you find that?

The Adventure of Link came out in 1988, and Ocarina of Time came out in 1998. I highly doubt that Miyamoto would deliberately wait 10 years to name the Sages after some towns. I find it more of a cameo-esque convenience.

Does it matter if it was a cameo? It's still part of a Zelda game - despite them being released ten years apart in our world, in the world of Zelda, OoT would come first. This makes AoL related to OoT because of that, even IF the town names were meant to be a cameo.

 

[Spire]

Yes, and with AoL being a direct and official sequel to LoZ, we know that it, too, takes place in the WW timeline.

We must adopt the term "sagelocking". They play a major role in the timeline placement. Furthermore, the seven maidens seen in FSA are descendents of the seven sages from OoT, so it too must take place in the Adult Timeline, AND, since it's most likely the predecessor to ALttP, it, OoS, OoA, and LA must also take place in the same timeline. This leaves the Child Timeline with MM and TP only, and TMC and FS (remember, FS might be split from FSA, as they are not the same Link, since he would have to get the Four Sword twice).

 

[FAILchion-]

Does it matter if it was a cameo? It's still part of a Zelda game - despite them being released ten years apart in our world, in the world of Zelda, OoT would come first. This makes AoL related to OoT because of that, even IF the town names were meant to be a cameo.

I suppose it doesn't, but it's still pretty weird, you have to admit.
TAoL 'is' related to OoT. I didn't say it wasn't. o_O

@Spire: Why leave Hyrule A with only two games? That barely makes sense to me.

 

[Spire]

I suppose it doesn't, but it's still pretty weird, you have to admit.
TAoL 'is' related to OoT. I didn't say it wasn't. o_O

@Spire: Why leave Hyrule A with only two games? That barely makes sense to me.

Trust me, I don't want it that way either. But, it is the most logical and fitting decision. My first timeline had balanced sides (just about). ALttP/OoA/OoS/LA and FS/FSA were all in the Child Timeline, and while I still wish I could fit them in somehow, they just don't work.

 

[FAILchion-]

Trust me, I don't want it that way either. But, it is the most logical and fitting decision. My first timeline had balanced sides (just about). ALttP/OoA/OoS/LA and FS/FSA were all in the Child Timeline, and while I still wish I could fit them in somehow, they just don't work.

Could you explain how it seems "logical and fitting" to you? It really doesn't to me.

 

[Spire]

Could you explain how it seems "logical and fitting" to you? It really doesn't to me.

Alright. There are two heavy deciding factors (not the only two of course) when working with the timeline:
1. The Triforce
2. "Sagelocking"

Adult Timeline:
- Ocarina of Time awakens the six (seven including Zelda) sages and splits the Triforce into three pieces, given to Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. This leads into Wind Waker one hundred years later.

- Wind Waker acknowledges these sages as seen in the basement of Hyrule Castle in the stained glass windows. At the end of the game, the King of Hyrule reassembles the Triforce because he is the only one completely balanced between Courage, Wisdom, and Power, and wishes that the Kingdom be washed away forever. This leads into PH which has nothing to do with the Triforce. One hundred years later, Spirit Tracks occurs and we have no idea what happens in it.

- We now have three different arcs to choose from:
1. LoZ/AoL
2. FSA
3. ALttP/OoS/OoA/LA
Each of these begins with the Triforce split in some fashion. In LoZ, Ganon has the Triforce of Power and Zelda has split the Triforce of Wisdom into 8 pieces which you must recover (Sakuraaaiii!!!). The Triforce of Courage remains in the hands of the King, and is granted to Link in the sequel, AoL, so by the end of AoL, it is presumed to be rejoined.

In FSA, I assume the Triforce is split (anyone care to confirm this?), and ends split because this leads into ALttP somewhere down the line. Ganon receives his trident in FSA, but did not wield it prior in LoZ. Also, FSA's Hyrule is an island, not landlocked, and is geographically very similar to the one seen in ALttP, far more so than in LoZ/AoL. The absence of the many towns in AoL is questionable though, which may place LoZ/AoL AFTER the ALttP arc actually. Sorry, this is really confusing.

ALttP begins with the Triforce split and ends together again. This is seen both in the ending to ALttP and the beginning of OoS/A, as he approaches the Triforce in Hyrule Castle, which then warps him to Holodrum and Labrynna respectively.

A potential way to change the current timeline would be:

OoT - WW/PH - ST - FSA - ALttP/OoX/LA - LoZ/AoL

 

[Terra~]

The Angry video game nerd and gametrailers had both good things to say about the timeline. I'd pull em out but I'm at work and restricted quite a bit

 

[Phantom7]

Actually GT's timeline denied what Miyamoto actually said about the timeline himself. They placed WW and TP both on the child timeline, which if you ask me, is already a failed timeline.

And Spire, Miyamoto also revealed that ALttP is a sequel to AoL, so that change in the timeline is already confirmed not to work.

 

[FAILchion-]

Actually GT's timeline denied what Miyamoto actually said about the timeline himself. They placed WW and TP both on the child timeline, which if you ask me, is already a failed timeline.

And Spire, Miyamoto also revealed that ALttP is a sequel to AoL, so that change in the timeline is already confirmed not to work.

GT's timeline came out before anyone completely finished TP. It's outdated, but most things still make sense.

 

[Spire]

Actually GT's timeline denied what Miyamoto actually said about the timeline himself. They placed WW and TP both on the child timeline, which if you ask me, is already a failed timeline.

And Spire, Miyamoto also revealed that ALttP is a sequel to AoL, so that change in the timeline is already confirmed not to work.

I already have ALttP as a sequel to AoL. I hope you're not referring to it being a direct sequel, because that's not true in the least bit.

Four Swords Adventures must come after LoZ/AoL because it chronicles Ganon obtaining the Trident, and introduces the Dark World. FSA was created as a sort of prequel to ALttP, just with a different Link.

 

[comboking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g65jL3HDg&feature=PlayList&p=103A07DB65148984&index=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5FozOuwQjI

 

[Spire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g65jL3HDg&feature=PlayList&p=103A07DB65148984&index=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5FozOuwQjI

Except for the fact that his timeline is blatantly wrong.

ALttP comes before WW? Impossible, as the Triforce is intact at the end of ALttP, but broken at the beginning of WW FROM what happened in OoT.

And assuming that the Picori Blade is the Master Sword is a bad move. Totally different.

 

[zaneebaslave]

So the oldest games are actually the most recent, and the new games go in the middle and the oldish games go first and... uh...

I havent been so confused since they made Star Wars episode 4 the first film...

 

[comboking]

Proof of this please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puD8GvZLaAQ&feature=related

 

[Spire]

Proof of this please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puD8GvZLaAQ&feature=related

It has been officially stated that Termina is a parallel world, so that automatically debunks that video. I might not be able to find it on the web, but I read just recently in an old issue of Nintendo Power somewhere that it was.

 

[comboking]

There are 2 different theories there.
Actually just watch the whole video.

 

[Phantom7]

I already have ALttP as a sequel to AoL. I hope you're not referring to it being a direct sequel, because that's not true in the least bit.

Four Swords Adventures must come after LoZ/AoL because it chronicles Ganon obtaining the Trident, and introduces the Dark World. FSA was created as a sort of prequel to ALttP, just with a different Link.

No, I wasn't referring to it as a direct sequel, but just as Miyamoto said, it follows AoL in the timeline.

But how exactly do you know Ganon first obtained the Trident in LoZ/AoL? Evidence, please? And are you sure FSA Ganon and LoZ Ganon are the same Ganon? Also, I still believe comparing maps helps decide the timeline somewhat. FSA's Hyrule looks EXACTLY like WW's Hyrule, which if you ask me, signifies something. Hyrule must have gone through massive changes since FSA until it formed the Hyrule of LoZ.

 

[etecoon]

not that it has any relevance to actual order of games but

- Ocarina of Time awakens the six (seven including Zelda) sages and splits the Triforce into three pieces, given to Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. This leads into Wind Waker one hundred years later.

where does this come from? I've seen "WW is 100 years after OoT" a lot on the internet but I've never seen anything in the actual game that indicates this, and it doesn't really make sense...I've also seen this said about TP...

 

[Chis]

Didn't Nintendo make a statement saying there was no timeline?