Thought's on Kirby's current tier postion?

[Asdioh]

So I lost to a pretty average G&W in the loser's bracket today.

So uh, nevermind what I said. In actuality, the games were really close, and I should have won the first one if I didn't suicide around 0% by Stone KOing offstage and then failing to cancel the Stone before I fell off, but if it was a better G&W, it would have been even harder.

His moves simply beat Kirby's moves. That's all there is to it. Only thing you can do is shieldgrab, but Bair eats your shield pretty hardcore. The only times Kirby hits G&W is when Kirby attacks and G&W doesn't, it's that simple.

 

[Falconv1.0]

G&W is one of those characters I could advise cp'ing Mk against. UP b just plain stops him.

 

[Asdioh]

: |

Snake does really well against G&W right?

Too bad I hate both.

I could use Toon Link or Ike, or maybe even Fox...or Captain Falcon!

Those are all the characters I play other than Kirby. Toon Link is probably my best bet...I heard he is (or used to be, back in the day) a G&W counterpick.

 

[Lord Viper]

Marth and Snake is Mr. Game & Watch's worst nightmare. Marth has more attacks that's better range and can able to swing it faster, don't forget the tipper, Snake... is just Snake, I think he's the best match up when fighting Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[pkblaze]

thank god i'm a good snake then... actually, i suck. haven't found any tourneys yet

 

[blu_7]

I'm somewhat satisfied with the current list. A little higher will do.

 

[fromundaman]

Tiers dont determine who wins in a fight, wtf is with that misconception?

DDD is beaten by people way the **** below him that totally shatters that mindset to lil pieces.

Yes and no, but not so much in the way you might be thinking. Tiers actually help me win matchups because most people only pay attention to high tiers. Take MK players for example. They almost all seem to know the Snake and Falco matchups, but as soon as you go, say, Yoshi, they just don't know what to do, and when you pull out a CG to Uair kill, they panic. Tiers are great because no one knows low tier matchups, giving them a chance against high tiers (though I'm not saying you're going to beat Azen or M2K by playing Ganon, as epic as that would be.).

 

[Lord Viper]

(though I'm not saying you're going to beat Azen or M2K by playing Ganon, as epic as that would be.).

☆ It could happen, in some twisted way they mess up. =P

Anyways, I'm wondering how far will Kirby's metagame improve, since a good amount of AT's has been discover so far, I do wonder if there's more for Kirby. ☆

 

[CaliburChamp]

So I lost to a pretty average G&W in the loser's bracket today.

So uh, nevermind what I said. In actuality, the games were really close, and I should have won the first one if I didn't suicide around 0% by Stone KOing offstage and then failing to cancel the Stone before I fell off, but if it was a better G&W, it would have been even harder.

His moves simply beat Kirby's moves. That's all there is to it. Only thing you can do is shieldgrab, but Bair eats your shield pretty hardcore. The only times Kirby hits G&W is when Kirby attacks and G&W doesn't, it's that simple.

When G&W uses his D-air, shield both hits, it attacks twice. Then F-smash... now G&W will rarely use D-air on you now. I think Kirby's F-tilt might reach through G&W D-tilt. His B-air will still give kirby problems.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ 3.0 and Kirby's the same, good that he didn't drop, but I wanted him to rise though. D= ☆

 

[Kewkky]

He might have stayed #13 in the list, but he rose from B tier to A tier. Smells like Win... My predictions were true! :D

I'm glad he didn't go down, Kirby seriously has too many good things going for him, his positives FAR outweight the negatives IMO. Beimg in the highest SuperTier (S/A, B/C/D, E/F) means he has the potential to be a great character, if used in the right hands (right Wario?). I want to make his position keep rising, and see where he ends up... I know he can go higher!

 

[fromundaman]

I don't really care where he goes TBH. I just find it funny that without moving we somehow got into high tier.
Still, this list seems pretty close to accurate, with a few exceptions.

I love how Sonic and PT moved out of low tier. MOAR **** for Low tier tournies!

EDIT:

My thoughts exactly...but like I said, I thought he would go down.

Tier lists are stupid though. Seriously. People are arguing so much about trivial things.


Smiley: I'll probably be attending more midwest tournaments :]

Does this mean you're going to MWC Champs?

 

[Allied]

Kirby is just a tank and if he can keep some good tournament placings and great matchups that he has
i'm sure he will just stay the same but lets see we still have a LONG time of metagame to advance

XDDD

 

[fromundaman]

TBH, I think we have the tools to advance some of these things, we just need to stop being lazy and test everything we've found and written off so far. I was going to finally get around to it... then my wii died...

 

[Delta Z]

He didn't get past any characters, but he moved up a tier anyway. I'll take it.

I can see Kirby slowly rising after this. I'm really liking his S Tier matchups right now. Going by what the just-made-old matchup thread, Kirby has two neutrals, one bad, and three good matchups: 45-55 on MK, 50-50 on Wario, 40-60 on Snake, and 60-40 on Falco, Diddy, and Dedede. They may or may not have changed by now, but still.

 

[fromundaman]

Characters moved below him though, like Lucario, so he kind of did pass some up.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Yay, nothing's changed. =P

I feel like someone should do a flow chart showing how his entire meta game eventually boils down to bair or shield grab. HM, WHO DOES THAT SOUND LIKE BESIDES KIRBY.

 

[thrillagorilla]

I was thinking of commenting on the R.O.B. discussion. Then I thought better of it and decided to ask t0mmy to play me a few matches this weekend and see if I can get some replays posted. R.O.B. doesn't need to camp to be good... at all. t0mmy's R.O.B. is probably one of the primary reasons there aren't that many Metaknight mains in Oregon. As a matter of fact, I can't think of any except t1mmy. The other people that use him around here play him more as a secondary. We have more Ness mains than Metaknight mains. XD

Anyways, I'm glad that Kirby stayed in place. I don't see him moving much higher in the future, but his current placing is nothing to sneeze at, so more power to the Kirbys!

On the other hand... DK is lower than Pit? No. Just. No.

 

[Cook Kirby]

Impressive how Kirby managed to move up to A rank without changing position. A little disappointed that he didn't move to #12 or #11, but I guess I should be thankful that he didn't have a major drop like some of the other characters.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Imo, Kirby should switch spots with Lucario. Kirby should be top of B tier, Lucario should be bottom of A tier. I don't agree with alot of stuff on the list, MK and Snake should be in their own tier. Tier's D and E should be 1, instead of 2 separate tiers.

 

[|RK|]

What? Lolno.

If you play (or previously played) Lucario, you'd know that he did kinda deserve to drop. Kirby deserves to be higher, really. Lucario isn't that great...

 

[momochuu]

Yep. Lucario's not that impressive and after Azen left I've yet to see one doing that well.

Ahhh we need to stop being lazy and find stuff for Kirby.

 

[Kewkky]

Either find stuff, or represent him more in big tourneys! I want to do my part, so I'm starting to save up money to go to big tourneys next year during summertime, hopefully to score a nice spot in the top 20... It's over a year away, so I have loads of time to fortify my strategy! :D

 

[Asdioh]

I think the tier list looks good, though I think it would be more fitting if Kirby was moved to top of B tier, rather than bottom of A tier.

Actual individual ordering of characters was left unchanged, though there was quite a bit of discussion regarding Kirby and Lucario (FORESHADOWING FOR VERSION 4?!?!).

This seems to imply that I'm not the only one who thinks this...

I'm actually not surprised Kirby didn't move. Like I said, I expected him to move down if he moved at all, but really, nobody pays much attention to him, and not much has changed since last tier list.

Also, hopefully people realize that most of this thread is 5 months old >_>

Shoulda just made a new thread imo

 

[fromundaman]

Yay, nothing's changed. =P

I feel like someone should do a flow chart showing how his entire meta game eventually boils down to bair or shield grab. HM, WHO DOES THAT SOUND LIKE BESIDES KIRBY.

Well, not to pick on you in particular, but it's that sort of mentality that makes our metagame stagnate...




Lol Asdioh, thanks for the heads up... I hadn't noticed the date... (Why the hell was this made in January anyway?)

 

[Lord Viper]

Also, hopefully people realize that most of this thread is 5 months old >_>

Shoulda just made a new thread imo

☆ There's really no need. That's like making a new chat thread because the other one's old. This is just the discussion of Kirby's tier placement and how will he rise or drop on the tier list. First edit was the talk of tier list 2.0, and now 3.0. Also, let's hope that people know how to read a date instead of intently replying to an old quote. =P ☆

I hadn't noticed the date... (Why the hell was this made in January anyway?)

☆ My first topic was "Thought's on Kirby's Tier 2.0 position" and now it's edited to 3.0. ☆

 

[Brinzy]

For a character whose metagame hasn't been through leaps and bounds in a while, he's lucky to remain virtually unchanged, in my opinion.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Yep. Lucario's not that impressive and after Azen left I've yet to see one doing that well.

Ahhh we need to stop being lazy and find stuff for Kirby.

Lucario has better match ups than Kirby which is why I think they should switch positions. Also, Lucario is boring to play as which is why some people dropped him or just quit altogether. The only orgasmic move he has is down+B, and you can't hardly use it.

What? Lolno.

If you play (or previously played) Lucario, you'd know that he did kinda deserve to drop. Kirby deserves to be higher, really. Lucario isn't that great...

he should of dropped 3 spots, not 4. I play them both by the way. =P

 

[Kitamerby]

I play them both by the way. =P

Lier.


Anyways, I'd better see some ridiculous tourney placings from here on out as kirby mains, or the Furfag Empir-ahem, I mean Lucario mains will pass you up again.

 

[fromundaman]

☆ My first topic was "Thought's on Kirby's Tier 2.0 position" and now it's edited to 3.0. ☆

Ohhhh.... that makes sense.

My bad. I no is ze smarts.

Lucario has better match ups than Kirby which is why I think they should switch positions. Also, Lucario is boring to play as which is why some people dropped him or just quit altogether. The only orgasmic move he has is down+B, and you can't hardly use it.

I'm not really familiar with Lucario's matchups, but doesn't he struggle vs a lot of the high tier cast? (MK, D3, Marth, Falco, possibly Snake?)

Also, I disagree on the DownB being his only orgasmic move. The hammer is so much more awesome, and easier to land.
That being said, DownB is pretty awesome, and not so hard to land on some stages, especially if you can do the infinite stone glitch on them.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Ohhhh.... that makes sense.

My bad. I no is ze smarts.




I'm not really familiar with Lucario's matchups, but doesn't he struggle vs a lot of the high tier cast? (MK, D3, Marth, Falco, possibly Snake?)

Also, I disagree on the DownB being his only orgasmic move. The hammer is so much more awesome, and easier to land.
That being said, DownB is pretty awesome, and not so hard to land on some stages, especially if you can do the infinite stone glitch on them.

I meant Lucario is boring to play as, and I was talking about Lucario's down+B not Kirby's. Kirby is really fun to play.

 

[fromundaman]

I meant Lucario is boring to play as, and I was talking about Lucario's down+B not Kirby's. Kirby is really fun to play.

Oh, gotcha.

Can you enlighten me as to Lucario's matchups though? How are they better than ours?

 

[Kewkky]

Even if Lucario has better matchups than us... He's also way more gimpable than Kirbies. AND there are stages that mess him up (parts of Rainbow Cruise, if met with aerial battles, can lead to a failed attempt at returning).

Matchups alone won't make tier lists. You have to look at every detail the character possesses. Kirby does well in every stage, whereas Lucario doesn't. Lucario's recovery can be gimped quite easily (i find myself chaining dairs when he upBs), while Kirby isn't as predictable (plus has way more jumps, and his upB actually attacks). Lucario might have the MU advantage, but kirby has other advantages on Lucario. They're near each other, which means their prosons aren't too far off from each other... Kirby just managed to get the last laugh in the SBR's eyes.

 

[napZzz]

Kirby's so versatile and good in many ways, I believe he deserves his spot. He's like mk junior :D

 

[Lovely]

My thought's is that this tier list show more of Kirby's potential than the Japanese tier list where they rarely pick Kirby at all. I can't help but know that Kirby's not moving meta game is to blame for him not being higher.

 

[|RK|]

Oh, gotcha.

Can you enlighten me as to Lucario's matchups though? How are they better than ours?

We can't tell yet. The Lucarios restarted their matchup thread before even finishing, so there are multiple unknown matchups.

 

[Retroend]

What I want to know:

-Why is ROB still so high on the tier list? What is it that makes him so good?
...being lame and camping all game?

-How is Falco the third highest? Seriously, wtf o_o

why is this game so annoying? why did some famous game characters such as link and mario come below nobody characters like ddd and marth? why did sakurai had to become a complete dumb@ss and not balance the game? why did he go biased with meta and ddd (that includes snake as well)?

*sigh* I was afraid of that... You made some pretty good points up there. But M.k is simply annoying to fight.. his fair is rediculous to get through, and his tornado thing is nearly invincible. His speed is also a pain in the *** >.>. If anyone is anything like me, they'd get annoyed pretty quicky. Annoyance= anger. Anger= Disconcentration. Disconcentration (Even the slightest bit..)= defeat. Period. Its simply not fair in my eyes.. >.>

yea meta is annoying, i usually fight them all the time. for me, the meta player would wait until i make a move or wait until i get closer to him. his game is ridiculous and i just hate seeing the fact on how unbalanced this game really is...

Play Snake, dont get hit off stage. Profit.

he's even worse than meta! cheap *** tilts...

So I lost to a pretty average G&W in the loser's bracket today.

So uh, nevermind what I said. In actuality, the games were really close, and I should have won the first one if I didn't suicide around 0% by Stone KOing offstage and then failing to cancel the Stone before I fell off, but if it was a better G&W, it would have been even harder.

His moves simply beat Kirby's moves. That's all there is to it. Only thing you can do is shieldgrab, but Bair eats your shield pretty hardcore. The only times Kirby hits G&W is when Kirby attacks and G&W doesn't, it's that simple.

i seriously hate that character. really, comparing him from melee, its stupid on how much he got buffed. i mean he deserved a buff, but not that much. i can't stand him amd that why i classify him as a gay character. i mean its in his name- mr. gayman watch (that includes ddd and wario).

☆ 3.0 and Kirby's the same, good that he didn't drop, but I wanted him to rise though. D= ☆

i'm glad that he didn't fall, but really, people really don't know kirby's potential. he has so much going on with him. he does deserve better, but many just wanna use high tiers instead, which really pisses me off. and wario is ridiculous! 3rd? he's a freakin heavy weight with too much air mobility. i hated him as a character, now i hate him even more.

 

[t!MmY]

Kirby's meta game is stagnant. He has no useful, unique ATs, his match-ups are iffy, and he is a mediocre character with obvious drawbacks and limitations. Why would you guys think he'd actually go UP in the tier list? If you want that to happen, find some useful technique, or better yet go win a major tournament.

Kirby is a well-rounded, balanced character with nothing exceptional (except for Kirbycides!). This sounds pretty Mid Tier-ish to me. I wouldn't be too upset if he was placed in C rank, but he could go as high as bottom of B tier... maybe.

 

[Lovely]

Has Kirby really been overrated? I thought he was a character that was underrated since I haven't seen him in much tourney's in both Japan and the US. I don't think Kirby's that weak to be in C tier because of the lack of AT's.

 

[fromundaman]

Kirby's meta game is stagnant. He has no useful, unique ATs, his match-ups are iffy, and he is a mediocre character with obvious drawbacks and limitations. Why would you guys think he'd actually go UP in the tier list? If you want that to happen, find some useful technique, or better yet go win a major tournament.

Kirby is a well-rounded, balanced character with nothing exceptional (except for Kirbycides!). This sounds pretty Mid Tier-ish to me. I wouldn't be too upset if he was placed in C rank, but he could go as high as bottom of B tier... maybe.

While you do have a good point, ATs do not make a character. (Case in point: Link)

Kirby has few bad matchups, has no bad stages, can abuse a whole lot of game and stage mechanics to screw people over (either due to their character or the stage, or occasionally both), is great at racking up damage and killing, and has one of the better recoveries.

You are right that he does have obvious drawbacks, but he has a lot more strong points IMO.
That being said, I didn't expect him to go up. High mid was where I would have placed him, though low high seems appropriate too.