Thought's on Kirby's current tier postion?

[~Shao~]

Kirby is like, one of the easiest characters to CG, it's not even funny. And since he's light-weight, he needs less damage to die, meaning they need to CG you less... so less room for error.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Ah. But how's Kirby easier to chaingrab than anybody else?

 

[Kewkky]

Ah. But how's Kirby easier to chaingrab than anybody else?

Our attacks are jointed to our hurtbox, we have no projectiles. We might have disjoints, but they're not on the level of Marth's/MK's/Snake's, where we can hit their powershields and get away with it. If they powershield our fail approaches (like landing bair), it's a grab and a death.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Oh. But I've played I.C. mains before, just CP them to either BF or RC, then platform hop the former and just play normally on the latter, they can't ban both.

 

[~Shao~]

Ah. But how's Kirby easier to chaingrab than anybody else?

It has something to do with the throw animation. Light-weight's are usually easier to CG 'cuz the throw animation is faster, and heavy-weight's are usually harder 'cuz the animation lasts longer (harder to time the CG). And about platform camping...you just have to watch out for their u-air.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

It's pretty predictable though. I love CP-ing them to Rainbow Cruise. I get lulz by just running around while they attempt to maneuver the level.

 

[Berserker.]

Due to how many MUs were disadvantaged or even and how many advantages we had, overall we have more disadvantaged MUs O_o

And kewkky, remember what you said about Kirby dropping to C-tier? At the MU thread when we were discussing Ike? Nice guess but if only he was 1st or 2nd at C-tier or last place at B-tier

 

[fromundaman]

Forgot to mention platforms. Uthrow will separate both ICs if you do it below platforms. They can't kill you, and if they fail to intercept (which they migh due to the tight timing they have to realize whats going on, aim and time their attacks) then you successfully separated them.

Good point. Platflorms are the exception.



Also Tater, the timing is easier for IC's CG against lightweights like Kirby.

Also: We have no truly effective method of getting past desynched blizzards.


As for your CP options: Yes, it is true that there are good stages for us to CP (Although BF is actually better for them. You want to pick a stage with slants to make their CGs harder, that moves, or has hazards/transformations to interrupt the CGs), the problem with that is it means we have to lose on the neutral, and if we win on our CP, then they get to CP, and they have more good stages than we can ban too.

 

[aextreme73]

Yea this matchup against IC is just so disorienting. THe magnitude of the throw and playing the game with some major kirby strategies taken out of the battle diminish kirby's options. Just a very patient battle overall in the attempt not to get grabbed. 1grab=1stock.

About Kirby's tier placement, it's sad to see KirbO hasn't been doing well, but tier placement should not determine how everyone plays. It's just an indicator of how Kirby's have been doing, and it looks like our board has a lot to show the community in tourney.

<(-''-)^

 

[T1MMY]

And in MY opinion (which is all important)
35-65
40-60
45-55 / 40-60
45-55
50-50/55-45
40-60
40-60/45-55
45-55

I see it more like this:
50-50
40-60
40-60

And you forgot someone:
45-55

For the lolz:
Falcon Punch!!!!

 

[aextreme73]

I see it more like this:
50-50
40-60
40-60

And you forgot someone:
45-55

For the lolz:
Falcon Punch!!!!

Just curious, how do you see the Falco Matchup that way? I didn't think it was that bad.

 

[T1MMY]

I should have clarified the Falco matchup a bit more...
It's actually 60:40 in Kirby's favor unless you're playing against good Falco players.

You should read this:
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=1355149#p1355149

and then this:
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=1154398#p1154398

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Wow, I never thought about using the AiB forums.

 

[*XLR8*]

tier list doesnt really matter tho as long as u know ur char from left to right top to bottom its all good.

 

[Berserker.]

My opinion:

45:55 (w/o planking) or 40:60 (w/ planking)

40:60

50:50 or 55:45

60:40

45:55

40:60

Kirby is an average- above average character with above average match ups. He does okay against high tier characters.

 

[*XLR8*]

yeah i guess lol it seems tho people just gotta step up their kirbys. i for one haven`t played in a tourny for a while now and i have to start going to some now to see how well everyone got wit their char. oh kinda off topic but idk about u but i have a hard time against rob wit my kirby.

 

[Berserker.]

I think it's even 50:50 >.>

Just powershield his projectiles. Their easy to powershield once you get used to it.

 

[fromundaman]

His Ftilt annoys me more than his projectiles TBH, but yeah, PS and space and you should do all right. Still, it's an annoying MU.

 

[Asdioh]

Yeah, his Ftilt and his Bair. How do you punish ROB's bair? -_-

Falco wouldn't be such a pain if his Jab wasn't so ridiculous. It beats practically everything and leads into so much. Can you duck under his jab and dtilt?
Does Bair reliably beat Phantasm?

 

[Kewkky]

Bair ALWAYS beats phantasm. From start of the hitbox to finish of the hitbox animations, bair WILL beat out phantasm.

I think you can duck and dtilt under Falco's jab. Something tells me you can, but I haven't tried it out on purpose yet, so many days without playing.....

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Kirby can U-Air out of Falco's jab combo. =P ☆

☆ Kirby can't duck Falco's jabs, but he can duck from his Down-B and Basic-B if that's any use. ☆

 

[~Shao~]

The thing with ROB is, as soon as you get enough match-up experience, his projectiles become really easy to powershield on reaction. If you figure out their pattern, it becomes even easier.

Granted, it's still annoying because we HAVE to approach.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

That, or just swallow him and out-camp. You can duck under his laser, he can't do that for yours.

 

[~Shao~]

You can angle the laser And of course, he has the gyro.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

If he's trying to camp you, he'll be at the opposite end of the stage, nearly impossible to angle against a crouching Kirby.

 

[aextreme73]

I should have clarified the Falco matchup a bit more...
It's actually 60:40 in Kirby's favor unless you're playing against good Falco players.

You should read this:
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=1355149#p1355149

and then this:
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=1154398#p1154398

thanks for clarifying, this is a very informative
i have yet to be at this high caliber kirby/have not played a high caliber falco, but this will certainly help my falco battles

 

[Kewkky]

I thought T1MMY was one of the guys who were sure that Falco was a slightly disadvantaged matchup for Kirby?

Wowz. I'm glad other people are finally starting to see the light! If Falco has to completely change the way he plays in order to play well against us, then that should be the first hint that we're a troublesome MU.

 

[fromundaman]

True, but if he changes the way he plays AND it works, then that means he too is a troublesome MU...

I mean, I still think it's in our favor, but yeah... just saying, if it works, different or not, it isn't a bad thing.

 

[A1lion835]

I thought T1MMY was one of the guys who were sure that Falco was a slightly disadvantaged matchup for Kirby?

Wowz. I'm glad other people are finally starting to see the light! If Falco has to completely change the way he plays in order to play well against us, then that should be the first hint that we're a troublesome MU.

He is.

And don't we have to change our playstyle to play him as well? Just saying.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Yeah, we just do more of the same, and with someone as fast-falling as Falco, it's even easier.

Seriously, 55-45 at best, though I doubt it'l ever come to 60-40 unless we get REALLY creative

 

[Yunior597]

Well now im a depressed fanboy since kirby decreased 3 places... how could it be? kirby is an amazing char...

 

[Lord Viper]

Well now im a depressed fanboy since kirby decreased 3 places... how could it be? kirby is an amazing char...

☆ Because most of the Kirby mains that is known to place well is MIA, and there hasn't been much research on Kirby to tap on this true power. I know Kirby has it in him to rise, but it's up to us to make him rise. ☆

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Pretty much that.

But I like Kirby where he is, makes you look that much better when you win. And now that he's mid tier, he can dominate mid-tier events while still being a MU nobody cares to memorize at regular tourneys. Win-win

 

[fromundaman]

Internet needs to stop eating my posts...

... Tater, people don't just "forget" characters because they drop a few spots. Not to mention Kirby is like the easiest character to pick up, so he's not that hard to figure out. Also, I have only once ever seen a mid-tier event


@Viper: Who is MIA? Chu, Y.b.M. and Percon all still play, don't they? If I remember correctly, MogX is an active Kirby player who places well too, and I'm pretty sure T!mmy still plays. So who were you refering to? Was it yourself, because if it was, no offense, but when's the last time you placed well?

 

[Lovely]

I think I've said this before, placement in tournaments isn't the reason why the tier list is made, if that was the case Pit should had stayed the same place and not rise, but Pit is a much better character than most would have expected, (except those who play him well). Kirby's placement is wrong, I think he should at least be above Toon Link and Zero Suit Samus, but Kirby is limited to both of the tiers above him, there is no escaping that. That is unless a useful AT is discovered that Kirby can abuse.

I'll still say Zero Suit Samus is overrated. ;p

 

[Lord Viper]

Who is MIA? Chu, Y.b.M. and Percon all still play, don't they? If I remember correctly, MogX is an active Kirby player who places well too, and I'm pretty sure T!mmy still plays. So who were you refering to? Was it yourself, because if it was, no offense, but when's the last time you placed well?

☆ I haven't heard too much news about Percon. )= ☆

☆ I think I overexerted by saying most Kirby mains that place high. Sheer is one of a few that I no longer see that place well. I can't use myself because it's been a year since I've been in a public or major Brawl tourney, I might get owned if I did go without getting a new mentality, (because I tend to quit for no reason a lot of times). I don't have bragging rights nor can I help. T_T ☆

 

[Triple R]

@Viper: Who is MIA?

I think he meant "missing in action."

 

[fromundaman]

I know what he meant, but I didn't know who could be considered MIA though of the placing Kirby mains.

And did Sheer ever actually place? I mean, all I remember was him talking a lot of ****; I have no idea how he placed.

I think I've said this before, placement in tournaments isn't the reason why the tier list is made, if that was the case Pit should had stayed the same place and not rise, but Pit is a much better character than most would have expected, (except those who play him well). Kirby's placement is wrong, I think he should at least be above Toon Link and Zero Suit Samus, but Kirby is limited to both of the tiers above him, there is no escaping that. That is unless a useful AT is discovered that Kirby can abuse.

I'll still say Zero Suit Samus is overrated. ;p

ZSS I'll agree with, but TL I do think TL should be above us after seeing Hyro play.

As for Pit, again, Koolaid has been doing amazing with Pit recently, and that is, I think, a large part of why he rose. That being said, although he is a good character, I think they put him a bit too high.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

Pit, TL, and ZSS are all better than Kirby.

Kirby has glaring faults that take immense effort to work around, whereas Pit can just camp the ledge and TL can explode the stage, and ZSS actually has legitimate traps, follow ups, and kill set-ups at all percentages.

I can see Kirby maybe rising above ZSS one day if people learn how to fight against her, but I am very satisfied with his position on the tier list.

The lower the better

I'm REALLY happy that Marth is as high as he is.

 

[fromundaman]

I agree with Marth being that high too, and I DO like Kirby's position (seems about right to me), but I disagree. ZSS has like 1 kill setup, and it's hard to land on good opponents. In fact, I'd say Kirby has better kill setups... She is also really weak when she's above you, or if you're behind her on the ground (Just watch out for Bair OoS!). Also, perfect shielding hurts her a lot.

Pit's ledge camping is pretty good, but nothing game breaking... However, with good reactions/predictions and SDI, you can escape most of his attacks and punish. I realize it doesn't happen often, but it can. That being said, he has good rep too, and has been getting good tournament placings, so it makes sense that he rose (Vex plays Pit? Never knew...).

TL is better IMO because of his insane stage control.