The Unofficial Offical MLG Ruleset Discussion

[Flayl]

Soul Calibur series btw

edit: Ninja'd

 

[Zankoku]

what's wrong with falling in line with our way of thinking ?

Because I'm a human being? If you're looking for people who blindly follow a leader, look for the ones that stand on four legs and are covered in wool.

Your way of thinking is a lot of "I think it should be like this" with the only reasoning being "because my region thinks so." I really can't justify agreeing to anything under "justification" that's pretty much peer pressure. Especially when the decisions made as a result end up so contradictory to each other.

 

[gallax]

Because I'm a human being? If you're looking for people who blindly follow a leader, look for the ones that stand on four legs and are covered in wool.

dont talk about sheep that way. razer is gonna personally come over to ur place and ninja u.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Played a lot of Green Greens last night. It's so bad in doubles.

I'd rather play stages like Skyworld, Distant Planet and even Rumble Falls.

 

[sandwhale]

PS2 should be banned because it can change the game's physics, your characters position and movement. If you think that doesn't hinder the competitiveness of the game i don't know what would.

 

[Judo777]

Na, there isn't any ice that makes characters slide across the bottom or a tread mill or wind that makes character even more floaty. Example to me how Final D impacts the game of play in the same manner as those changes. Ready set go !



I've stated plenty of reason as to why ps2 is a joke. There is no oh learn the stage andr you'll get better at it. WIth out know how each stage transformation effects each character everything you're saying is a just being said on a whim. I'd rather go RC with my Zelda then play on ps2 period.

The main difference between PS2 and Rc imo is that on PS2 during any of the phases u can do things in order to not be greatly affected by the stage. During the electric phase just stand in the middle its the best place to be anyway. Wind phases just stay on the ground and try to prevent from getting knocked into the air also u can knock ur opponent in the air and stay on the ground if u dont like the phase. Ice phase jump more thats how luigis deal with traction isssues. Unlike RC tho if u fail to do the things that the stage attempt to force u to do the cost isnt near as large (you might have to float in the air for 30 seconds or run against a tread mill.) If u dont do what they stage want on RC u just die because u have to drop down to the ship at said time or u have to get above the pendulum or you die. Plus all of ps2 is stationary electric phase aside.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Reasons why they pick these stages for the rule set. Most likely.

Counter-Pick Stages

Brinstar ( Anti-chain grab stage. )
Frigate Orpheon ( Anti- tether recoveries and Anti- bad recovery stage.)
Green Greens (Anti- projectile spamming stage, helps characters with bad recoveries. (Ex. Most of the low tiers.)
Norfair ( Helps characters with bad recoveries, helps characters with tether recoveries, anti-projectile stage, lava eruptions force players to move.)
Pictochat ( Anti- flying under the stage, anti-planking on most transformations.
Pokémon Stadium 2 ( Anti-projectile stage, anti-scrooging stage, very adaptive stage.)
Rainbow Cruise. (Anti-planking stage, anti-camping stage while the stage moves.)

I believe those are the reasons MLG has added them to counter stage list. It makes sense, since counter stages are supposed to counter the players style, depending if they camp, spam lasers, bananas, etc.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Meh, you know what? I'm now of the opinion that Brawl (maybe Smash in general) is unfit as a competitive game. No matter what ruleset you go with, the game is a mess.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Meh, you know what? I'm now of the opinion that Brawl (maybe Smash in general) is unfit as a competitive game. No matter what ruleset you go with, the game is a mess.

Me? I'm just trying to think what made MLG come up with this rule set. You don't have to know much to be good at this game. I'd say some of the not so bright smashers that play this game, still do good and are pro like because Sakurai didn't mean to make brawl competitive, it's main priority was to attract casuals gamers to increase sales. Banning so many things also messes up the balance of the whole character cast, it either benefits them or hurts them depending on what stages are legal and not legal.

 

[fkacyan]

After some significant playtesting today with a multitude of characters in both singles and teams, I can safely say every stage that isn't typically banned is:

- Amazing for MK
- Amazingly stupid

MK gains so many options on Norfair it is ridiculous. Pictochat's hazards are far too stupidly powerful; the spikes on the side hit you into themselves if you're hit into the bottom of them. I managed to do 80% to one of the people I was playing with by catching him in this manner. Green Greens is just a mess altogether (I'm really not sure where people get the idea MK is bad on this stage from. Maybe they just play with bad MKs?).

Not one match was played on those stages without the hazards having a large impact on the match. Man, I can't wait to see somebody lose on Picto to a spike spawning underneath them, or have MK dtilt lock them into a bomb block, or other such shenanigans. If this game comes back next seasons I'll consider it a miracle.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Because I'm a human being? If you're looking for people who blindly follow a leader, look for the ones that stand on four legs and are covered in wool.

Your way of thinking is a lot of "I think it should be like this" with the only reasoning being "because my region thinks so." I really can't justify agreeing to anything under "justification" that's pretty much peer pressure. Especially when the decisions made as a result end up so contradictory to each other.

Since this is getting out of line and I'd rather not talk about peer pressure and what emotional non sense you brought up. Just explain to me what's wrong with my regions stage and CP settings?

 

[Jack Kieser]

Why do people who don't want stage selection to have a factor (however small) in match outcome play Smash in the first place? It's like saying it's unfair to lose by ring out; it's a core part of game design (and no, not like items or anything; items are not a win state). Either deal with the fact that there are NO NEUTRAL STAGES in Brawl (at all), or play another game.

Jeez, it's like *****ing that MW2 has too many RPG elements; ok, either deal with it or play Halo. Lol @ people complaining about games not made for them.

 

[Zankoku]

It bans stages that I don't really see as needing banning, for reasons that, as far as I can tell, should make other stages that are allowed also banned but don't. Since I can't really figure out what you guys are thinking, I end up having to check through all the stages myself and form my own opinions.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

It bans stages that I don't really see as needing banning, for reasons that, as far as I can tell, should make other stages that are allowed also banned but don't. Since I can't really figure out what you guys are thinking, I end up having to check through all the stages myself and form my own opinions.

Which stages are you referring to ? Halberd and Pitochat?

 

[Turbo Ether]

After some significant playtesting today with a multitude of characters in both singles and teams, I can safely say every stage that isn't typically banned is:

- Amazing for MK
- Amazingly stupid

MK gains so many options on Norfair it is ridiculous. Pictochat's hazards are far too stupidly powerful; the spikes on the side hit you into themselves if you're hit into the bottom of them. I managed to do 80% to one of the people I was playing with by catching him in this manner. Green Greens is just a mess altogether (I'm really not sure where people get the idea MK is bad on this stage from. Maybe they just play with bad MKs?).

Not one match was played on those stages without the hazards having a large impact on the match. Man, I can't wait to see somebody lose on Picto to a spike spawning underneath them, or have MK dtilt lock them into a bomb block, or other such shenanigans. If this game comes back next seasons I'll consider it a miracle.

100% accurate post.

I'm liberal when it comes to rules, but yeah, these stages are vomit-inducing. I'd rather play with items on.

 

[fkacyan]

Why do people who don't want stage selection to have a factor (however small) in match outcome play Smash in the first place? It's like saying it's unfair to lose by ring out; it's a core part of game design (and no, not like items or anything; items are not a win state). Either deal with the fact that there are NO NEUTRAL STAGES in Brawl (at all), or play another game.

Jeez, it's like *****ing that MW2 has too many RPG elements; ok, either deal with it or play Halo. Lol @ people complaining about games not made for them.

Man, strawmanning is pretty cool. I wanna be like you someday, attacking men made of straw!

I never said I didn't want stage choice to be a factor. I just don't want to fight the stage as well, or have the stage's mechanics favor one character so much to the point that if you do not ban that stage against that character, you have lost the match unless you too are that character.

Smash should be a PvP game, not a PvPvE game.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Man, strawmanning is pretty cool. I wanna be like you someday, attacking men made of straw!

I never said I didn't want stage choice to be a factor. I just don't want to fight the stage as well, or have the stage's mechanics favor one character so much to the point that if you do not ban that stage against that character, you have lost the match unless you too are that character.

Smash should be a PvP game, not a PvPvE game.

Remember the tornado on Nagrand arena? Lol. Blizzard removed it quickly.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I don't care if they we're a thousands ike mains attending. Ike is a bad character and you should feel bad for maining him.

You, sir, are a big troll.

 

[sandwhale]

The main difference between PS2 and Rc imo is that on PS2 during any of the phases u can do things in order to not be greatly affected by the stage. During the electric phase just stand in the middle its the best place to be anyway. Wind phases just stay on the ground and try to prevent from getting knocked into the air also u can knock ur opponent in the air and stay on the ground if u dont like the phase. Ice phase jump more thats how luigis deal with traction isssues. Unlike RC tho if u fail to do the things that the stage attempt to force u to do the cost isnt near as large (you might have to float in the air for 30 seconds or run against a tread mill.) If u dont do what they stage want on RC u just die because u have to drop down to the ship at said time or u have to get above the pendulum or you die. Plus all of ps2 is stationary electric phase aside.

That's why RC should be banned too.

Why do people who don't want stage selection to have a factor (however small) in match outcome play Smash in the first place? It's like saying it's unfair to lose by ring out; it's a core part of game design (and no, not like items or anything; items are not a win state). Either deal with the fact that there are NO NEUTRAL STAGES in Brawl (at all), or play another game.

Jeez, it's like *****ing that MW2 has too many RPG elements; ok, either deal with it or play Halo. Lol @ people complaining about games not made for them.

Lol @ stupid person thinking he's smart and trash talks behind the invicible internet because it makes him feel strong.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Man, strawmanning is pretty cool. I wanna be like you someday, attacking men made of straw!

I never said I didn't want stage choice to be a factor. I just don't want to fight the stage as well, or have the stage's mechanics favor one character so much to the point that if you do not ban that stage against that character, you have lost the match unless you too are that character.

Smash should be a PvP game, not a PvPvE game.

The only starter stage that has hazards is Halberd, but they can be easily avoided. The counter stages has minor hazards. Having more diversity in stages is good for strategy, and it makes more characters viable. But I guess you didnt read my previous post.

 

[Alphicans]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that with this new rule set and especially with the new stage list, a whole new tier list should be made. It seems like that'd be an over reaction, but it really isn't. The new neutral list makes IC's seem like their previous 11th rank, and makes GaW seem like he could be 7th. Not to mention both diddy and falco get boned by the neutrals. It's a big deal lol. I propose an MLG Brawl Tier list, and have the two separated.

 

[Jack Kieser]

@Thio: Ok? Not a post aimed at you. And even so...

Who are you to say what should / should not be the aim of competitive Brawl? The aim of any game, to the extent of my knowledge, is to play the game. "Fighting the stage", as you call it, is an integral part of Smash. Simple as that. Don't believe me? Nearly everyone has had to fight the lip on FD. Spotdodging the Norfair lava is nowhere near as gay as getting gimped by the FD ledge for being one pixel off (something that is still the player's fault, mind you). The stage always will be a part of the game, and "fighting against the stage" will be, too (Rainbow Cruise says hi, btw). Simple as that. We don't ban stages because you have to "fight the stage" (which basically means "interact with the stage")...

...we ban stages because they break the game (circle-stalling, for instance) or arbitrarily hand out bonuses (Warioware with items, for instance). Don't like it? Deal with it. Learn your stages. Everyone has to learn proper spacing on FD's lip, learn to predict Yoshi's ghost platforms, and how to escape Halberd's laser. Stage interference is part of what makes Brawl different; it should take a lot more than "I don't like it!" to have to ban a stage.

@ sandwhale: Wow, really? That's all I'm going to say about that, because you have no argument to rebut. However, I will say this: I'll be working WHOBO at Anime Matsuri; why don't you drive to Houston in a week so I can tell my argument straight to you, that way I can't "hide behind the internet"?

 

[CaliburChamp]

The tiers would definitely change with the new MLG stage list. It would actually change for the better actually, because more characters will become viable. SBR makes most of the rules though, for top tier characters to win. It's a conspiracy that's real.

Also, if you don't want to learn how to fight on certain stages, play traditional fighters like TvC, Street Fighter, Blazblue, etc. Smash is supposed to be a new breed of fighter.

 

[Zankoku]

The BBR never recommended the east coast's current standard ruleset.

 

[Kitamerby]

Green Greens (Anti- projectile spamming stage, helps characters with bad recoveries. (Ex. Most of the low tiers.)

LMAO.

Are you serious? I love this guy. 80% of low tiers get ***** by DDD on this stage. The other 20% + DDD are absolutely DESTROYED by Game and Watch here.

Also, Pictochat is a fine stage. To get "gayed" by the stage is an extremely, extremely rare occurrence if you actually have any idea what the hell you're doing on it.

I'm wondering why the **** people aren't complaining though on why the hell they have Green Greens and Pictochat allowed but not Japes. You can at least fool yourself into thinking you have an argument by saying that the drawings are arbitrarily chosen on the spot on Pictochat, but Japes is completely predictable and runs on an exact timer like clockwork.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The BBR never recommended the east coast's current standard ruleset.

This is why the BBR fails.

@ray kalm it was just a joke.

@calibur I thought you quit brawl for TvC?

 

[Judo777]

In order to get hit by halberds hazards you really have to be not paying attention at all.

 

[adumbrodeus]

This is why the BBR fails.

Or why EC's ruleset fails...


Seriously, it's ridiculously conservative, but arbitrarily decides to play MU surgery.


No hate EC, I understand why the rest of you do it, but by trying to limit the effects of "gay stuff" you remove a lot of the stuff that gives the game depth, and significantly change our conceptions of the metagame.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Or why EC's ruleset fails...


Seriously, it's ridiculously conservative, but arbitrarily decides to play MU surgery.


No hate EC, I understand why the rest of you do it, but by trying to limit the effects of "gay stuff" you remove a lot of the stuff that gives the game depth, and significantly change our conceptions of the metagame.

I don't see how a stage like ps2 or green greens gives the game depth.

 

[adumbrodeus]

This is why the BBR fails.

Or why EC's ruleset fails...


Seriously, it's ridiculously conservative, but arbitrarily decides to play MU surgery.


No hate EC, I understand why the rest of you do it, but by trying to limit the effects of "gay stuff" you remove a lot of the stuff that gives the game depth, and significantly change our conceptions of the metagame.

The only fighters that come to mind for me would be eithe DoA or Soul Caliber.

However, Final D isn't the limit of how much I want a stage to affect the game play. If you feel as though I'm just spit out my regions opinion then I guess that's how you should feel. However, bear in my that I am from the best region what's wrong with falling in line with our way of thinking ?

The problem is is, when you remove that much from the game, you remove the depth. I personally hate G&W's judgement hammer, Peach's stitchfaces (well actually more the fact that I don't pull them 24/7), and Luigi's forward B among other things. Would I ban them? They're random and effect the game a lot more drastically then pretty much any of the random things of the remaining stages, why shouldn't we ban them?


Because, in so doing we abandon a lot of what makes the game interesting.

 

[Zankoku]

I don't see how a stage like ps2 or green greens gives the game depth.

I don't see how taking away nearly every stage that isn't some slightly different variant on "flat stage with flat platforms" doesn't remove depth.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

You ninja'd me.

Anyway, they should just ban D3's infinite altogether for the sake of Green Greens.

Wait, the MKs will probably make that a non issue anyway.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Name me one other competitively played non-Smash fighting game where the stage selection actually makes a difference.

(this should be an easy one)

Ooh ooh Tekken 4 and Soul Calibur!

 

[Zankoku]

I was actually thinking of Tekken 6 as an easy example since it was also on the MLG Circuit, but I forgot that SoulCalibur was somewhat big too.

 

[fkacyan]

The problem is is, when you remove that much from the game, you remove the depth. I personally hate G&W's judgement hammer, Peach's stitchfaces (well actually more the fact that I don't pull them 24/7), and Luigi's forward B among other things. Would I ban them? They're random and effect the game a lot more drastically then pretty much any of the random things of the remaining stages, why shouldn't we ban them?


Because, in so doing we abandon a lot of what makes the game interesting.

If I was interested in letting luck decide whether I win or lose, I'd go play Pokemon, or the lottery. Also, if you're going to argue that Pictochat, PS2, GG, and Norfair add depth, I suggest you play an MK who has experience with any of these stages. Having gotten just a day's worth of practice on them, I can actually understand why places who have these stages legal want the character banned!

The BBR never recommended the east coast's current standard ruleset.

If the reactions to the MLG ruleset are anything to judge by, the BBR doesn't recommend much of anything these days.

EDIT: Read back and went Jac's post.

it should take a lot more than "I don't like it!" to have to ban a stage.

... So, wait, you think that NJ trigger-banned the stages we have banned? Essentially every stage, to my knowledge, that we have banned that other regions don't was banned after extensive play and extensive abusive play of various traits on the stage. The stages we've banned were banned usually after several instances of a lesss-skilled player taking a match or set off of a more-skilled player (MasterDave / Izumi nearly beating M2K on Pirate Ship as a result of water camping after being 3-stocked the first match is the most famous New-Jersian example of this), or after sheer randomness decided the match, and I mean literally (Spikes being drawn directly on top of Atomsk to cause him to lose a set, was pretty cool, 'cept not).

I have no idea where people get off saying NJ just randomly bans crap. We don't. We just have a higher saturation, on the whole, of people who are willing to play however they have to to win money than most regions do.

 

[Jack Kieser]

If I was interested in letting luck decide whether I win or lose, I'd go play Pokemon, or the lottery.

...or Smash. If you don't want luck to help decide, choose SF.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

...or Brawl. If you don't want luck to help decide, choose SF,Melee,64, or TvC.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Zankoku]

If the reactions to the MLG ruleset are anything to judge by, the BBR doesn't recommend much of anything these days.

Recommendations are not mandates. The BBR doesn't have absolute authority, nor does it claim to.

I've played Judge quite a bit on Pictochat. Judge regularly gets counterpicked there by lain. I don't really see what the huge sentiment against Pictochat is.

 

[Jack Kieser]

@ Eternal Yoshi: Fair enough.

 

[Alphicans]

I think pictochat is more neutral then delfino. People just bangwaggon hate for the stage because it's the cool thing to do.