The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Maharba the Mystic]

actually im pretty sure they would release a new smash bros game before then as they are about to release some new type of nintendo system iirc. i just hope they make it way better this time

 

[Ghostbone]

Well Brawl might continue to be played after the next smash game comes out depending on how good it is lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Just wait 'till the next Smash game introduces air tripping, friendly fire for the Ice Climbers, removes the ability to turn items off and removes dashing.

Then we'll see how bad Brawl is

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

as if sakurai would screw up twice. the first 2 games were perfect for their time. brawl isn't bad, it's got some major flaws but overall it's still fun. i think this time he'll take his time making the next one and ACTUALLY test the game for random crap like..... BALANCE. yes honestly if brawl was character balanced it would be fine minus tripping. im fine with reasonable chaingrabs and other true combos and stuffz because if the other character's are actually capable of dealing with it, unlike DK vs DDD or ICs vs cast majority, or one character completely dominating at EVERYTHING, then brawl would be perfect.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Friendly fire for the ICs would be the best thing ever.

 

[Tesh]

lol, wouldn't that make absolutely none of their moves work?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

 

[Ghostbone]

lol, wouldn't that make absolutely none of their moves work?

But they'd have an infinite recovery.

Though looking at it seriously an IC player would have to be really good at de-syncs or something for them to be playable lol

 

[Bizkit047]

Well Sakurai has stated that Brawl was supposed to be his last smash game, and that he wouldn't work on a future one. He's also stated that he doesn't like smash to be competitive. So assuming he wouldn't make "the same mistake twice" doesn't really mean anything, as he doesn't think Brawl was a mistake at all, and doesn't seem to have anything against the anti-competitive measures he took in Brawl.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

*makes comment in dead thread*

gosh this place got creepily quiet.

 

[F A N G]

Maybe this should be asked in Stage Discussion, but ehh

Why is PTAD banned?

 

[san.]

Most of the general reasons why some stages are banned are because some TOs truly believe so, or they feel that the general public may not like/agree having a certain stage legal or something to that effect.

Some stages haven't had nation-wide exposure yet, or are still controversial among multiple regions, so discussion concerning the legality of these stages is a must. It is located in another topic in this forum.

EDIT: Here you go

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Maybe this should be asked in Stage Discussion, but ehh

Why is PTAD banned?

Short answer: People are stupid/scrubby.
Long answer: most people are not willing to put in the effort to learn how to fight on a stage that is so different, and consider the cars and lack of ledges "gay". So they either say "This is gay, ban it plz" or make slightly more substantial, slightly less honest excuses to ban it.

 

[xDD-Master]

Short answer: People are stupid/scrubby.
Long answer: most people are not willing to put in the effort to learn how to fight on a stage that is so different, and consider the cars and lack of ledges "gay". So they either say "This is gay, ban it plz" or make slightly more substantial, slightly less honest excuses to ban it.

Thats not true, don't claim things you don't know.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

gotta say legal or not i don't really care as pit has no need to cp it. but in friendlies i just wanna say ptad is so much fun when you just wanna do falcon dittos. trying to falcon punch the cars=

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Thats not true, don't claim things you don't know.

K, why is it banned?

 

[xDD-Master]

K, why is it banned?

Different reasons.

- No Edges on Main platform
- Walk Offs (Not that important)
- Cars are very strong (If you deny that, you lie)
- Cars & landing places are a bit random (I know there is a pattern)

But it's mostly because of the missing edges and even more the cars.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

So... what's wrong with missing edges? The road bounces you back up half the time, and it sounds more like a counter-pick trait than something that warrants the stage being banned.

The cars are stupidly easy to avoid and the only way anyone could possibly see them as an issue is out of ignorance.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Today and Technical Chase have been added to the BBR-RC.

We have pending invites to a few TOs still and are awaiting their response, and we are also discussing and thinking of invites a few other TOs. As always, send along a PM with your resume of tournaments run to be considered for the BBR-RC.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

YOU!

Will any of our opinions ever be seriously considered, or are we just wasting our time?

 

[xDD-Master]

The cars are stupidly easy to avoid and the only way anyone could possibly see them as an issue is out of ignorance.

Thats subjective.
You can say BFs Edges are static, thats a fact.
But you can't say that the cars are easy to avoid.

The cars are probably easy to avoid, if you play alone on the stage. But that can't be said if your oppenant knows who to pressure you correctly to get you near the cars.
ggs.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Of course it's subjective, you're saying that like it's some kind of trump-card. There is nothing wrong with subjectivity in this situation.

So why exactly do you want to get rid of a legit tactic like pressuring your opponent to get hit by a predictable hazard?

Unless you have some kind of evidence to suggest that this pressuring tactic is so powerful that it leads to degenerative, over-centralizing gameplay, you have no case.

 

[AlphaZealot]

As a TO every decision about a ruleset is considered seriously. The question I guess is if you want a long winded answer when every TO could have a slightly different (or even radically different) reason for wanting something, and then further having to explain how functioning as a group requires compromise and every TO not getting exactly what they want or think is ideal (every single TOs ideal ruleset in the country being different, meaning before this committee exists there were 50+ different rulesets being used).

So, I'll talk about PTAD as an example. I love PTAD. The stage rocks for Diddy. However, outside the Midwest local tournaments you will never see the stage, and when you are making a ruleset for the entire country you can't go with the extreme at either end of the spectrum. The majority of the TOs in the country had/have the stage banned, so guess what? The stage is banned for this ruleset. Why do they have it banned? Ask them I guess, though the reason essentially comes down to the Car's KOing around 50% (many say if it were like 100+% they would be okay with the stage). Why is this bad? They say hazards shouldn't have THAT much effect on the match. Me, personally? I don't really care about the hazards and I think the stage is fine, but I can also see why people would think it is a problem and I know my tolerance for stage interruptions is on the high end.

Also there is nothing random about this stage. Double also I think this is Diddy's 2nd or 3rd best stage because
-Most setups for the cars leading to KO's because of nana tripping
-Doesn't have to deal with edge BS (only down side is MK sharking but frankly rolling and counting jumps and being patient is all you need to beat that and then MK has to land and you get a free hit, also barrel spike sharking MK = hotness)
-Mostly flat like FD
-Harder to get barrel gimped because the road will save you when the platform is moving
-Cars make up for Diddy's terrible KO moves
-walk offs lead to nana lock > KO like you will see me do in the video link

 

[xDD-Master]

Because I don't want to have such a strong impacting stage element?
You can't force people to learn how to deal with them, if they just don't want it.
Whats wrong with that?

There is a reason why we have a timer, people don't want matches to last forever.
There is a reason we have an ~8 minute timer, because people don't want every match to go to time.
And so there is a reason why people ban PTAD, because people don't want a stage that can kill you @50%. The cars force you to go the side of the stage which is a VERY risky place to be.
People don't want extremely risky situations BY THE STAGE at all, in this case every minute for about 5 seconds.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Then ban Final Destination. For certain characters, they are forced into a very risky situation, specifically being stuck on a flat platform against either a character with a CG or against a character with a projectile. It's basically auto-win for the Ice Climbers in some MUs. I don't want a stage affecting the match to this degree.

Banning it in a set is irrelevant, because you could just ban PTAD. And there are characters who could play legitimate matches on FD, just as there are those who can play legitimate matches on PTAD.

However, I fail to see the point in this thread, as there are just going to be too many TOs blocking any changes to the stagelist for this to matter.

 

[xDD-Master]

There is a BIG difference between FD and PTAD.
FD doesn't force you to change your positioning directly, while PTAD does.
FD can't kill you, while PTAD can.

If people would have a problem with FD, it would've been banned as well.


How can you be sooo blinded and fail to say why people may dislike PTAD and don't want it.


Let's say we only want to play on static stages without walls or walk offs. We would only play on FD and BF.

You can discuss with me how much you like, you still can't bring up an argument, why we should want to play on another stage if we just don't want.

The same happens to PTAD. What's so hard to understand about it. We tolerate stages with temporary transparent main stages (Halberd, Delfino), we tolerate stages with temporary walls (PS1), we tolerate stages with temporary Walk Offs (Castle Siege), we tolarate stages without platforms (FD). But we don't tolerate stages with Elements that can kill you very soon without being easy to avoid, unless you move into very risky situation (Which is the reason PTAD or JJ needs to be banned in our opinion, while Halberd is OK).

You can say whatever you want, it won't change anything at all.

 

[Yikarur]

Then ban Final Destination. For certain characters, they are forced into a very risky situation, specifically being stuck on a flat platform against either a character with a CG or against a character with a projectile. It's basically auto-win for the Ice Climbers in some MUs. I don't want a stage affecting the match to this degree.

Banning it in a set is irrelevant, because you could just ban PTAD. And there are characters who could play legitimate matches on FD, just as there are those who can play legitimate matches on PTAD.

However, I fail to see the point in this thread, as there are just going to be too many TOs blocking any changes to the stagelist for this to matter.

thats a bad argument, thats really.. embarrassing to read.

You can't compare a hazard that kills you at 50% and being forced into the corner because you die otherwise with a flat platform that doesn't force anything by itself.
get better logic, I hate stupid arguments like that, it's really embarrassing.

 

[xDD-Master]

thats a bad argument, thats really.. embarrassing to read.

You can't compare a hazard that kills you at 50% and being forced into the corner because you die otherwise with a flat platform that doesn't force anything by itself.
get better logic, I hate stupid arguments like that, it's really embarrassing.

Yika <3333

They always try to compare things that aren't truely comparable at all <_<

So stupid.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Cars on PTAD lead to you dying, forcing you to the sides.

Flat platform on FD leads to extremely unadvantageous positioning anywhere on stage, forcing you to the ledge. A single grab by the Ice Climbers at 0% costs you a stock, whereas getting hit by the cars at 50% does the same. A character who can stay above the cars will not have to worry about them, whereas a character who can avoid being on the stages well doesn't have to worry about the BS a number of characters can wreak upon them.

 

[xDD-Master]

Cars on PTAD lead to you dying, forcing you to the sides.

Flat platform on FD leads to extremely unadvantageous positioning anywhere on stage, forcing you to the ledge. A single grab by the Ice Climbers at 0% costs you a stock, whereas getting hit by the cars at 50% does the same. A character who can stay above the cars will not have to worry about them, whereas a character who can avoid being on the stages well doesn't have to worry about the BS a number of characters can wreak upon them.

Thx for supporting me

PTAD - Cars
FD - ICs

I hope you see the difference.

 

[Cubone]

Thx for supporting me

PTAD - Cars
FD - ICs

I hope you see the difference.

Cars can't kill you from 0%?

 

[xDD-Master]

Cars can't kill you from 0%?

Nice try XD

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Cars can't whiff/drop their KOs

 

[Reizilla]

Today and Technical Chase have been added to the BBR-RC.

We have pending invites to a few TOs still and are awaiting their response, and we are also discussing and thinking of invites a few other TOs. As always, send along a PM with your resume of tournaments run to be considered for the BBR-RC.

Who do we send the PM to?

 

[AlphaZealot]

Me or anyone on the committee, it then gets posted in the committee and we talk about the applicant.

 

[xDD-Master]

It is only for American TOs right?

 

[Orion*]

Flat platform on FD leads to extremely unadvantageous positioning anywhere on stage, forcing you to the ledge. A single grab by the Ice Climbers at 0% costs you a stock, whereas getting hit by the cars at 50% does the same. A character who can stay above the cars will not have to worry about them, whereas a character who can avoid being on the stages well doesn't have to worry about the BS a number of characters can wreak upon them.

How are getting into an disadvantageous position on the stage without letting your opponent put you there.

Cars can't kill you from 0%?

I lol'ed XDD

 

[Blacknight99923]

Cars can legitamently combo kill you at 0

Snake/G&W dthrow

gets hit by car

combo off the car, whether its a footstool(like a wargasm) fair, or just going for upsmash (on platform with G&W) or uair (with snake)

GG

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

However, I fail to see the point in this thread, as there are just going to be too many TOs blocking any changes to the stagelist for this to matter.

The point of this thread is for the public to be able to freely discuss their concerns, agreements and suggestions about this Ruleset. This is a process. Changes that have the potential to dramatically affect a ruleset are not and should not be made overnight. This is a gradual process where ideas are heard, taken into consideration, filtered and discussed. Compromise is a large part of this process as well. Please continue to be patient and post your ideas.

It is only for American TOs right?

Yes, this ruleset does not affect any other regions besides the United States of America.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Yes, this ruleset does not affect any other regions besides the United States of America.

That almost made me think I'm wasting my time reading, understanding and trying to comment something useful. =P