The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Maharba the Mystic]

^^ that's wrong. oli can't stop dks planking if DK has a stock lead. i was the one who helped him find out that oli's dtilt of all moves can be timed to hit dk out of his upb but then DK grabs the ledge right after that. if you don't believe me ask rich himself.

HE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING to stop DK's planking. all he could do was get in a little damage that just makes DK regrab the edge. so with a stock lead it's unstoppable on olimar's part.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Because sponsors are 100% knowledgeable about everything in the game. I was just using RB vs Will as an example, but lets say there was a MK planking everybody. That is MUCH MUCH WORSE than D3 infiniting...1 character who can avoid it by staying on platforms. As opposed to...keeping the lead? That is a lot less feasible than stay on a platform...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Why not go on the platform, timed FSmash with a Pikmin that can reach, and if Will Up-Bs onto the stage, dropdown NAir to followup?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

F-smash doesn't have a hitbox forever...just saying

ANYWAY THIS IS BECOMING IRRELEVANT!

 

[GimR]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300016

 

[fUddO]

No, the SSB community made ITSELF look terrible in the eSports world. This "unity ruleset" isn't helping either.

I wasn't blaming MLG. I actually meant exactly what you were saying. Perhaps I phrased it improperly.

 

[Orion*]

This is ********, every rule in our ruleset can be argued "subjective" with this crap im sorry

 

[fUddO]

This is ********, every rule in our ruleset can be argued "subjective" with this crap im sorry

That's because the whole ruleset IS subjective.

 

[Tesh]

^^ that's wrong. oli can't stop dks planking if DK has a stock lead. i was the one who helped him find out that oli's dtilt of all moves can be timed to hit dk out of his upb but then DK grabs the ledge right after that. if you don't believe me ask rich himself.

HE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING to stop DK's planking. all he could do was get in a little damage that just makes DK regrab the edge. so with a stock lead it's unstoppable on olimar's part.

Is there something special about dtilt that lets it beat DK's up b? Because I'm pretty sure timing dtilt is= to timing dair or fair or jab or upsmash or w/e is in range. Risky situation but winnable. If you watch the vid, he made barely any attempts to put hitboxes in Will's actual range. Looked like he was just hoping the guy would stop.

On the subject of sponsors and making the game look appealing, we could just do Falcon dittos in tournament only. You think tornado spam looks appealing to sponsors? How about M2K gliding under the stage? All kind of boring to watch.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

exactly orion, brawl wasn't made with rules, we the players made them to make competitive gaming more fun, more epic, and more competitive. without these rules sure we have all options open to us, but the majority of these options take the challenge out of the game, make it boring, and worst of all uncompetitive. thus, in order to make this game fun for everyone, requiring skill and technical ability when our easiest options become limited to some degree, we the players can actually come to enjoy a competitive tournament where we don't have to worry that something stupid is going to ruin our time. sure will be some things that are allowed that can make certain match ups much more difficult or just outright near unwinnable but if we removed everything then we would be limiting ourselves too much. in the end we just need to find out what the community wants from this game to make it the most enjoyable and competitive we can so that we can have fun and hell maybe even take home a prize.

edit:

@tesh
dtilt is special because it doesn't make olimar go off stage and just makes both of them take damage. the problem with his other moves is that DK' rofl copter beats out all his other air stuff in that short 4-6 frame opening or he just super armors it and olimar get hit out to far to really recover without dk gimping him or just not being able to make it back

 

[Grim Tuesday]

This is ********, every rule in our ruleset can be argued "subjective" with this crap im sorry

Err... no.

I'm saying it is subjective because the line has been SUBJECTIVELY drawn between "Infinites ban and a LGL" and the less effective "Tornado is banned" and even the ridiculously ineffective "Up Tilt is banned against Jigglypuff".

Can you make such an argument for Temple, as an example?

 

[Orion*]

That's because the whole ruleset IS subjective.

apparently everything is LOL

Can you make such an argument for Temple, as an example?

It depends on why Temple was banned. There was never any concrete data or testing done we just assume from melee it would be used for circle camping =/= cave of life. So first I would like to see that if you want to do this seriously.

However there still has to be interaction for circle camping to even happen. Why would we subjectively nerf characters such as sonic who after landing the initial hit could potentially run the timer?

The same way why would we subjectively nerf characters like dedede who could potentially get a stock off of a grab.

Or metaknight planking until the clock runs out.

 

[ADHD]

We should attempt to make this game more viable by eliminating absolutely brain-less tactics that are guaranteed to result in victory, such as planking and DDD's infinites.

These cannot be compared to something like ice climbers against ganon, because while like mario against DDD being already impossible, they have to work to chaingrab. I'm for tactics that result in an absolute edge over the opponent, as long as contains some form of depth. Yeah, my argument is subjective, but it's better than having a restricted view and ignoring personal morals when we are dealing with real people here.

 

[sunshade]

Why don't we just play brawl in its inherent game balance? If the game in its inherent state of balance is not fit for competitive play then we can take one of two routes.

Path 1: Remove as little as possible so that smash may be played in a competitive environment as similar to its inherent gameplay/balance as possible.

Or Path 2: Acknowledge that brawl is not fit for competitive play and make any/all alterations we as a community want so that the game may be played in a manor which most effectively balances skill, enjoyment, character diversity, and game depth.

Those are both schools of thought taken to their most logical extreme and I personally am fine with both, although as an originality, I support path 1 should brawl not inherently be playable in a competitive environment.

 

[DewDaDash]

I don't understand the *****ing about the ddd infinite. The characters that he can infinite he can beat easily without it. Of the characters that he can infinite, I can't remember when was the last time I lost to any of them (w/o infiinite).

If the argument is mostly towards the fact that pocket ddd's may result from this, then ok, you may have a point. But at the same time your being subjective. Either way for the pocket ddd's there is this character called mk. You know you can pocket him too right? Oh wait, I think that has happened alrdy.

Also, I feel kinda bad that pocket ddd's cant seem to win even with wall infinites http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbnTVF_CgEA

edit: TBH, I don't really care whether it's on or off.

 

[NomegStylus]

I don't understand the *****ing about the ddd infinite. The characters that he can infinite he can beat easily without it. Of the characters that he can infinite, I can't remember when was the last time I lost to any of them (w/o infiinite).

If the argument is mostly towards the fact that pocket ddd's may result from this, then ok, you may have a point. But at the same time your being subjective. Either way for the pocket ddd's there is this character called mk. You know you can pocket him too right? Oh wait, I think that has happened alrdy.

edit: TBH, I don't really care whether it's on or off.

lolololololollldsljvi4h takin dis gaym 2 4srs

 

[DewDaDash]

Woah let's not post that.

~ Red Ryu

 

[NomegStylus]

Nah, dawg, it's all 'bout that MLP porn, now.

 

[Life]

1. MK da bess.
2. Characters with infinites (DDD, Icies, etc.) are under MK.
3. MK is better than infinites.
4. If you limit infinites, you can't NOT limit MK.

Even with planking taken out of the equation, MK is still the best character in Brawl. So why nerf the people under him?

 

[NomegStylus]

Sounds like someone has a... superiority complex! lolololoooolllllll1!?@@!?@1.fvgmrowh60539

 

[Orion*]

Or Path 2: Acknowledge that brawl is not fit for competitive play and make any/all alterations we as a community want so that the game may be played in a manor which most effectively balances skill, enjoyment, character diversity, and game depth.

Dont get me wrong, I love brawl to death, I am super passionate about it, but under no circumstances would I consider this game to have competitive value if we didnt have at least some subjective rules in place.

I don't understand the *****ing about the ddd infinite. The characters that he can infinite he can beat easily without it. Of the characters that he can infinite, I can't remember when was the last time I lost to any of them (w/o infiinite).

I seriously doubt a pocket ddd will easily beat will, boss, ook, ripple, big lou ect without the infinite lol

Even with planking taken out of the equation, MK is still the best character in Brawl. So why nerf the people under him?

Because its not like your nerfing any of those characters relative to mk

DK vs D3 has like no effect on their MU with MK roflmao

 

[DewDaDash]

I didn't say a pocket ddd would beat those ppl w/o infinite, I was implying that a good ddd main should be able to win w/o infinite regardless. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't change the outcome for those who main ddd or make it a very strong secondary, it just saves us time. Also I provided a video if you didnt see where a pocket ddd loses with infinite lol.

 

[Orion*]

LOL green greens

I dont watch MLG vids I hate the quality its not worth the eye strain >_>

But if you really think it doesnt change the outcome, then why do you care? It lets the crap char mains at least get a shred of hope in the MU

*curious*

 

[Browny]

Oh cool, more people are finally realising that this game can not be called competitive from an originalist point of view and that it NEEDS subjective, surgical rules to override the game as it was inadvertently designed.

Can we round up the sirlin meatriders and throw them off a cliff yet?

 

[DewDaDash]

LOL green greens

I dont watch MLG vids I hate the quality its not worth the eye strain >_>

But if you really think it doesnt change the outcome, then why do you care? It lets the crap char mains at least get a shred of hope in the MU

*curious*

I don't really care for personal sake as I stated in a previous post. Although, the only benefit for me at least in the big scope of things, maybe it may bring in ddd players the same way that mk players were brought out due to having an advantage. Sure its for the wrong reason, but people start picking up other characters to have an advantage, do they not? The ddd boards could use some more ddd players, its dead in there.

 

[NomegStylus]

Drew, all your posts are like a man showing up to a debate with a clown nose and rainbow afro.

 

[DewDaDash]

lol ultimate troll ^

 

[fkacyan]

I didn't say a pocket ddd would beat those ppl w/o infinite, I was implying that a good ddd main should be able to win w/o infinite regardless. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't change the outcome for those who main ddd or make it a very strong secondary, it just saves us time. Also I provided a video if you didnt see where a pocket ddd loses with infinite lol.

That D3 is complete balls then, might have been high of his *** or drunk or something too.

 

[Orion*]

Oh cool, more people are finally realising that this game can not be called competitive from an originalist point of view and that it NEEDS subjective, surgical rules to override the game as it was inadvertently designed.

Can we round up the sirlin meatriders and throw them off a cliff yet?

itemz are fun yo

@dewda fair enough xD

 

[Spelt]

Can we round up the sirlin meatriders and throw them off a cliff yet?

People may go overboard with him, but he has some fair points and shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[sunshade]

Dont get me wrong, I love brawl to death, I am super passionate about it, but under no circumstances would I consider this game to have competitive value if we didnt have at least some subjective rules in place.

So you are suggesting path 1? What I am saying is that we need standards to our rulesets. Going on the assumption that brawl is not a competitive game in its natural state, we either follow an originalist mentality and change as little as possible, and try to retain the games integrity, or we follow a constructionist mentality and change the game until we feel its the way it "should" have been/be.

Oh cool, more people are finally realising that this game can not be called competitive from an originalist point of view and that it NEEDS subjective, surgical rules to override the game as it was inadvertently designed.

Can we round up the sirlin meatriders and throw them off a cliff yet?

I could make a working competitive ruleset for smash that does not ban anything. This is not the correct thread for such a post, but I know for a fact that brawl can (assuming you correct the flaws with the counterpick system) be played competitively in its natural state. If you want specifics I can PM them to you.

Sirlin's principals by the way are simply, "play to win" and "if its not broken, don't ban it". calling support for such basic and simple concepts "meatriding" is like saying that using half of the words in the dictonary is meatriding Shakespeare.

itemz are fun yo

@dewda fair enough xD

Nitpicking here but items are not banned so we are abiding by sirlin philosophy even when playing with them off. We turn off the random spawn of items, but we have absolutely no prevention/ban on the use of them in anyway.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

As usual, I'm just going to say that the appeal to results seems both more relevant and more sensible than sirlinism.

 

[sunshade]

I see little sensibility to banning things for reasons other than being broken unless you are going the distance and simply restructuring the game to how you think it "should" be played. In other words being a scrub.

What happened to you BPC? Drawing imaginary lines in the sand saying "if it passes this line I just drew then its not ok", you are essentially a more lieniant alex strife/inui.

 

[Reizilla]

Sirlin... the guy that turned ST into the *******ized HDR? Yeah, let's listen to that guy.

 

[sunshade]

Sirlin... the guy that turned ST into the *******ized HDR? Yeah, let's listen to that guy.

Clearly being bad at making video games means your widely accepted philosophy on competitive gaming is wrong.

Brawl minus is a pretty legit game in my opinion. Clearly everyone should listen to BPC without question.

 

[Reizilla]

Nope. Brawl- is terrible.

 

[Spelt]

The Streets fighters Sirlin had control over are 23456787543x better than SF4...

low strong low strong low strong low strong fireball fireball fireball low strong fireball fireball low strong low strong fireball low strong fireball fireball fireball low strong low strong low strong low strong fireball fireball fireball low strong low strong SUPER EX HYPER TURBO COMBO FINISH

 

[Alex Strife]

why is my name in the conversation LOL


anyways I did enough research for this.

enjoy theorists.

 

[sunshade]

Your name is in the conversation because I said you and BPC are exactly the same in your opinions of brawl with the exception of where you each draw your lines.

You are both constructionist.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Clearly being bad at making video games means your widely accepted philosophy on competitive gaming is wrong.

Brawl minus is a pretty legit game in my opinion. Clearly everyone should listen to BPC without question.

This I agree with. :V

I see little sensibility to banning things for reasons other than being broken unless you are going the distance and simply restructuring the game to how you think it "should" be played. In other words being a scrub.

What happened to you BPC? Drawing imaginary lines in the sand saying "if it passes this line I just drew then its not ok", you are essentially a more lieniant alex strife/inui.

Banning things that are clearly bad for game depth (and I mean, like, blatantly obvious here) is, to a certain extent, thoroughly positive for brawl's depth as a game, and therefore its overall competitive merit. "more lieniant"? You've got to be kidding me. I advocate banning DDD's infinites because there is virtually no other element in Brawl that has such a deep impact on a noteworthy matchup. That is, it's one element that makes a matchup go from the 60-40 range to the 90-10 range. It almost single-handedly decides DK's viability as a character.

Now, when you get into the range where you can honestly question "is this really noteworthy for game depth", the strategy falls apart. This is why it should only be used where it is BLATANTLY obvious. **** like DDD's infinite on DK, Pokemon Stadium 2 being legal, and the like.

Nope. Brawl- is terrible.

**** you.