The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I must say that drunken posting is fine.

I have no clue why we wouldn't do it all the time.

brb drinking my scotch

Thread about to go from stupid to ****ing amazing. Standing by for drunken chair posting.

 

[sunshade]

No, that would be being a ****ing loser who couldn't get a girl to save his life or if he was ****ing BILL KAULITZ. ALSO THE TOPIC.

Yeah uh 2 stage bans, 9 starters, legalize JJ

discuss

Full legal stage striking round 1, on the counterpick you may counterpick a character or a stage. If you counterpick a character you must FLSS again. >>> 9 starters normal counterpicking.

Edit: I would start drinking as well, but I am out of jack and I am saving my bottle of patron for saturday.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Full legal stage striking round 1, on the counterpick you may counterpick a character or a stage. If you counterpick a character you must FLSS again. >>> 9 starters normal counterpicking.

K, now convince the others here to give that a shot.

 

[sunshade]

K, now convince the others here to give that a shot.

I would much rather have you say we should do that, wait for the haters to exspose themselves, and then refute their arguments. Whenever I say anything controversial, people just seem to go "oh its sunshade, whatever".

Except in the case of pirate ship, in which, the stage got banned >.>

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Arguments DO NOT MATTER. I can explain to my crew members in Schrobenhausen that "I hate this stage" is a ****ty ban criteria, but if they didn't listen the first time, why the **** do you think they'll listen the 100th?

Do you host nationals? No? Then you matter exactly to the extent that you can influence those that do. That's your entire realm of influence. That's all you have.

 

[sunshade]

Arguments DO NOT MATTER. I can explain to my crew members in Schrobenhausen that "I hate this stage" is a ****ty ban criteria, but if they didn't listen the first time, why the **** do you think they'll listen the 100th?

Do you host nationals? No? Then you matter exactly to the extent that you can influence those that do. That's your entire realm of influence. That's all you have.

PS2 was banned because "I hate this stage" it was then said 101 times that is a stupid reason, and now its legal.

The BRC memebers are reading this thread for the most part, so simply saying its hopeless is a poor choice.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

It's not hopeless. But you know what is hopeless? Providing some **** like 1-stock, food on high, no LGL. **** that people aren't even going to take seriously for one ****ing second.

 

[sunshade]

Saying "counterpicking is the cause of all our systems problems, skews match-ups, and results in the less skilled player winning more often" is in a far different realm than "1-stock, food on high, mario bros" (don't hate me grim).

I also, don't support 1 stock, food.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

...Not really, no?

 

[sunshade]

Yea really, yes.

 

[fkacyan]

The current CP system is pretty terrible actually. I have a whole disection of why written out too!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i post drunk, get @ me.

need to go find my old signature....

 

[MK26]

bpc posting drunk gave me a good laugh

remember kiddies, theres only a one letter difference between BPC and BRC!

 

[Vyse]

Attention duelists.

Sup guys. After a bit of a pow wow, we think that it would indeed be wise to let users spread the discussion out into focussed threads.

Rather than forcing a structure, users should make topics as necessary. If the main thread is inadequate for something, please make a thread about it.

If users get silly with the threads made, we may have to step in and make some structured threads. It's also up to the bbr rc if they wish to lead discussion or not, but for the moment, users should go by their best judgement.

 

[fUddO]

^^My hair agrees with the above post.

 

[John12346]

Okay, so, now for the big question, which is likely going to need BRC approval.

Can we open a character legality discussion topic?

 

[sunshade]

The name and intention of the ruleset is unity.

The chances of the first version consisting of a Metaknight ban is about 0%.

 

[John12346]

Which is why I propose a discussion that we can simply organize and discuss opinions for, y'know, the future.

Even if it is the far off future, we always gotta start somewhere, right?

 

[Bizkit047]

I'm not quite sure if it's our job or the BBR's job to bring up a character ban discussion. A character ban is a pretty serious rule change.

 

[John12346]

Kwah? I would think it would be under the BBRRC's jurisdiction to allow this, since they're the ones heading up and backing ruleset changes. And keep in mind, I'd just like to request a discussion for now. No votes, no ruleset changes, since, as you said, it IS a serious rule change; just a place to discuss and see IF there's anything to even warrant the consideration of the ban(AKA a vote).

Anyway, there have been a few things about MK that have been weighing heavily on my, and likely other's minds, so I thought it'd be a good idea to open discussion over it. I figure these extra little bits about MK that we've discovered over the past year would be enough incentive to provoke a rediscussion, y'dig?

 

[Alphicans]

I'd think that a character ban should not just be left up to the BBR-RC. Including everyone in on it would make the most sense (not just the BBR and the BBR-RC), but then again it just gets messy :/. There really is no proper and clean way to decide whether a character should be banned or not.

 

[John12346]

Well, IF it actually came down to it, wouldn't a poll work?

 

[Deleted member]

I'd think that a character ban should not just be left up to the BBR-RC. Including everyone in on it would make the most sense (not just the BBR and the BBR-RC), but then again it just gets messy :/. There really is no proper and clean way to decide whether a character should be banned or not.

John mentioned this before, but there would have to be a close watch on the voting, making sure people aren't using alternate accounts and such.

 

[John12346]

Yes, I was hoping we could actually get the site developers to instate some kind of poll filter, so we can make alt. account voting (nearly) impossible to perform. A 100+ post filter or something should be all it takes to make sure it doesn't happen. Of course, the number of posts one would need to have in order to vote could be higher or lower than 100, depending on what the average amount of posts most alts have, but that's just another topic to throw onto the pile, right?

And... it's actually one of the main reasons why I believe we deserve to discuss a re-vote, considering the results of the 4 ban votes were ALL hit by alt. accounts. Basically, it's kind of like a corrupt vote, where alt. account voting from both sides brought the percentages closer to 50/50. Well, that, plus the new information we've found on MK over this past year. It's definitely something to talk about, imho.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ummmmm......... seems like we are jumping the gun on this one don't ya think? shouldn't we finish the topics at hand before starting new ones? not that im saying it wouldn't be a great discussion but aren't there too many topics atm already?

 

[Alphicans]

It seems like the MK ban **** has died down substantially in the last year (little less). At this point I think people have just come to terms with that he won't be banned,, and tournament results are not exactly proving he should be. Also, with planking being limited there really is no reason for him to be banned.

 

[John12346]

Now hold on there... first off, I said a discussion. Not a vote, and not an actual ruleset change rally. We just need a way to discuss matters as they stand now. His presence in the tournament scene, the whole counterpicking system business, how we have like 3 or 4 surgical changes to the game directly affecting him, etc etc etc

And Alphicans, MK has moved up from ~30% of all tournament money(according to the information given by the 4th ban debate) to somewhere between ~38% - ~53%(according to the information I've provided in Ripple's thread) as we've moved into 2011... wouldn't you think that would serve at least as a precedent to provoke some discussion?

It doesn't help either that we were pretty much forced to stop talking about MK ban nonsense shortly after the 4th ban vote. It's not like it died down, it was virtually smashed out of existence.

And as far as any kind of vote, I don't want one right now. I want all of the other controversial Unity ruleset rules currently being discussed to finish up first before we even consider even discussing a vote of this caliber.

Oh, and, if community voting is ever instated for other ruleset changes(although I doubt would be as severe as one targeting the legality of a character that it would actually provoke it), you should totally instate a voter filter for that, as well. It would help cut down on the skew caused by alts.

 

[ShadowLink84]

IT'S NOT THE END OF THE ****IN' WORLD.

You're right it isn't, doesn't make it any better though.

GOOD QUESTION. Find me a good, legitimate, easy to implement, not blatantly ridiculous method of buffing... Ganon vs. Sheik. You're a moron.

Uh what?
you do realize I am showing you why artificially buffing is wrong, and then you challenge me to find an easy method of buffing?
riiiiiiiiiight,

Yeah, you know how much that increases depth? NONE. Because Ganon still ****ing sucks. He's still completely inviable.

Done.

I'm getting really sick of this. Now I understand how people like Orion feel... ****ing theorybrawlers. >.< Also before anyone asks yes I am very drunk[/QUOTE

...

Do you even understand the usage of the word theory?
Do you even realize how ignorant you sound when you say theory brawlers?
You do realize that any time you are discussing a matchup it is "theory" right?
You know what else has theories? Physics.
Theory of gravity.

Them damn theory physicists! Why can't they just follow laws and genuine fact!?

There is theory backed up with information.
There is also theory backed up with nothing.
The former is good.
The latter is not so good.

Regardless this community still can't tell the difference after 7 years due to how often it contradicts itself so...yeah.


tl;dr

 

[san.]

If there ever was a vote on anything, I would be happy if it was left secret until the poll closed somehow.

 

[John12346]

On some other sites I go to, when you make a poll, you have the option to keep the results hidden until the poll is locked.

Edit: ****, we're about to go to the next page... BRC members, please address my request so I won't have to repeat myself.

 

[Orion*]

Double standards aren't inevitable.

You obviously are a white man

lol you're crazy. "thats what I expect from top players"

If one of them get's put offstage and the other tries to save him then they could both get gimped you know. Esp if the planker is an MK (other characters planking probably wouldn't be a problem).
And not everyone is an MK with such a great recovery that can go offstage through an attacking opponent and then help his partner recover and recover himself too.

Ive actually won a lot of 2v1s from that LOOOL

i was going to gimp istud and ramin tried to save him, gimped both them *****s

like diddy is supposed to fight mk offstage XD

Basically, my evidence is this thing called common sense. Common sense shows that there are 3 separate circles on the stage which allow the faster character to become untouchable after landing a hit.

Because doing so makes the game more competitive. If the stage was legal, every player would basically be equally good. Seeing as the point of competition is to determine the better player, this becomes impossible with Temple legal.

I bet you I would beat you in sets pretty consistently on temple, because in order for you to get the lead there still has to be a hit first.

I don't see how that makes the game more competitive, we are removing a stage which adds competitive depth, you should be able to pick a character capable of getting a lead and then getting the initial hit.

Seeing as the point of competition is to determine the better player, this becomes impossible with Temple legal.

But this essentially is it

You CAN play on temple competitively. if you want to argue that its competitive depth isnt as good, then you will essentially add to my argument that d3 having a infinite also removes competitive depth from the game.

wiiiiin
after such a long time, we've finally won!

<3

My post is still better than most of yours. Get @ me
@GT: Go to a tournament, you might understand it.


DAMN THAT FEELS GOOD

YESSSSSSSS

/don't care about this thread anymore stopped reading

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I bet you I would beat you in sets pretty consistently on temple, because in order for you to get the lead there still has to be a hit first.

I disagree about you beating me consistently.

I don't see how that makes the game more competitive, we are removing a stage which adds competitive depth, you should be able to pick a character capable of getting a lead and then getting the initial hit.

The stage does not add competitive depth, it removes it. The second part of your statement just always means picking the faster character.

Which is Sonic. How are Sonic dittos on Temple deep?

But this essentially is it

You CAN play on temple competitively.

No, you can't.

if you want to argue that its competitive depth isnt as good, then you will essentially add to my argument that d3 having a infinite also removes competitive depth from the game.

There is a key difference:

With Temple legal, the game is uncompetitive.

With Dedede's infinites legal, the game isn't as competitive as it could be.

 

[Orion*]

I disagree about you beating me consistently.

money match bait is on

The stage does not add competitive depth, it removes it. The second part of your statement just always means picking the faster character.

not necessarily, characters with projectiles also have a lot of options

IE i would probably main fox > sonic on temple lmao

Which is Sonic. How are Sonic dittos on Temple deep?

Sonic has to hit you first. and he's pretty bad at the whole approaching thing

No, you can't.

why?

There is a key difference:

With Temple legal, the game is uncompetitive.

With Dedede's infinites legal, the game isn't as competitive as it could be.

The game is perfectly competitive, there is no one character that dominates it, in fact characters like metaknight would probably suffer and get hard countered by characters like fox there due to his crappy horizontal air speed and foxs camping abilities.

perfectly viable counterpick :D

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I already explained why it was uncompetitive: It can't consistently determine who the better player is.

We can't have a money match unless you plan to come to Australia.

What is the point in having a projectile if the other character can catch up to you and deal damage worth about 15 projectiles in a single hit? Besides, that increases the list of viable characters to 2, and the stage still has the aforementioned issue.

If you were playing against a decent player using Sonic on Temple, what would be the ratio (in your opinion) of you getting the first hit compared to them getting the first hit?

You REALLY think you could consistently land the first hit?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

pit can snake arrows through that whole stage with good control. arrows are faster than sonic. pit can go around the whole stage in one aerial session. pit circle time out camp shenanigas>sonic's at temple due to not needing to approach to get first hit

lol at arguing temple. honestly i do love that stage tho. me and my friends just sit in the bottum left side of temple and have a tech fest. it's fun. not sure how it would go in a competitive scene but whatevs

 

[Overswarm]

I've often wondered if Hyrule Temple could be a competitive, even being completely off-the-wall different from other stages, if there was no timer.

 

[Raziek]

It would turn into an endurance match at that point, so, while still "competitive" in the loosest sense of the term, it's not competitive within the bounds of what we're trying to test.

We're playing to determine the person who is most skilled at the game, not the one willing to run away for 8 hours continuously.

Iron-man Temple Challenges would be fun for a little while, though. xD

 

[clowsui]

http://youtu.be/yPxim3HxBnQ

4:55

what's this?

see my comment on da vid

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It looks like you got mad lucky with accidental SDI.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

It's really easy to intentionally SDI the Klap Trap though. It has more hitlag than marth tippers lol.

AZ kinda played that badly too. He tried to setup Bananas in a neutral position, which while generally good, isn't so against Falco on JJ