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I agree with all of the rules.
Yep.
This one is not at all borderline. He had all the time in the world to react to the missile. Mistake #1 was up-b'ing into the missile. Mistake #2 was utilizing improper DI/air dodging and failing to miss the second missile. His options were not much more limited than they would have been on Final Destination. If anything, that missile should have helped him get back onto the stage. As it pushed its way across the stage, it would have either forced Razer back, or would have forced Razer to spend time destroying it in order to continue the pressure, which wouldn't have taken long. I don't see how this situation would have played out much differently from on Final Destination, had Marth not made that mistake.
This is the only point in the match where I would agree it may be unreasonable to expect Snake to avoid. However, let's not get carried away. First of all, Snake messes up the autocancel, which enabled the grab in the first place. That's fine, as players will make mistakes. He takes an extra 20% from that, which is admittedly unfortunate. The follow-up u-air however, is an independent mistake. It is likely a similar situation would have arisen had the spikes not appeared, as Marth would have thrown Snake off the stage or into the air.
Yeah, the damage is insignificant - it's actually only 3%. Momentum... see following comment.
Unfortunate as it is, this is not a big deal, and cuts to momentum occur on many stages. Flips on Frigate Orpheon can disrupt pressure. Having your opponent saved by Yoshi's shifts momentum on the broader scale as well. The situation in the video was nowhere near guaranteed damage either.
This was poor decision making on Snake's part. After the first throw, double jumping and landing on the "track" would have been the better choice - better familiarity with the speed of the cart (sidenote: the cart ALWAYS starts on the left side, so its location can be predicted just fine) and the nature of the hitbox would have made the clear.
Add me to the list.
I'll put my name down as agreeing for those.
The difference between a game-ending Ganoncide and all of these other "random" things is that Ganoncide ENDS THE DAMN MATCH. No **** we don't have a rule about Gordos, it would be impossible to make one. Making a rule for Ganoncide is easy.
He's saying there is no point to have a 9 starter list because there isn't much difference between certain stages in match-ups.
When you use a king dedede's side-b you use it knowing that it will randomly have 1 of 3 outcomes. When you use ganoncide, use it knowing that it has 1 of 2 outcomes, and its random.
The results being the same is not a good reason to stay with 5 stages. ing dedede is likely to end up on yoshi's island brawl in both 5 or 9 based on chibo's post but that does not mean that having yoshi's island be the sole starter stage is a good choice.
No, you won't get looked down upon, this is actually the best choice out of any. A full stage list strike for game 1 allows for the most fair stage to be played on. However, people seem to think it takes time, or is somehow unfair.
Pretty much what I said to him.
It doesn't mean we should, but it means we CAN, and thus ought to discuss it. As for what the game says, at some point you have to ask what's more important, adhering to what the game says or having a good competitive game?
Ok, but why stop there? If we are going to ignore precedent, and go against the way the game is, and make rules which arbitrarily favor certain characters, why not just change everything? I mean we can after all.
I'm starting to feel ashamed to be apart of this community. If you're fine with giving some characters their 2nd or best counterpick as a starter, throw Brinstar in there too.
What do you mean "potentially"? These events have already happened and are 100% capable of happening in future tournament matches. Heck, there aren't enough videos to show everything that could happen on pictochat.
Why does this matter? As Gheb (I think) said, if you lose your phone today, or in five years, you still lost it. We are fully aware of these events that could happen in tournament. What are we going to do when spikes pop up and decide Grand Finals?
The ghost was already out for everyone to see, there is no argument in this video.
Random enough to allow random reward at any instance on nearly any part of the stage.
Still doesn't address the big problem of what's coming next.
Good, because it's not IMO.
Don't just look at the "wild screwups". Everything counts in each game. That 25% from a missile or any percent from being thrown or knocked into a hazard could be the difference between living and dying. This isn't even including the gimping line.
Considering Picto has a high ceiling, with good DI, it’s not that hard to live to higher percents like 180%. I think you’re underestimating the cart a bit, but anyway, you’re still dealing with the issue of random rewards here. And the damage isn’t everything. Getting hit by these things sets you up in a bad position as well.
It IS when you would’ve lived if the plant did not randomly show up, especially if it’s the last stock.
Just like all of the Yoshi’s Island videos, just saying
What if I grab you, and get a throw, and you grab me, then a second later the plant appears? This still has randomness to blame. Or I make a decision that has a fair risk vs. reward then…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY0VN77EKgw&feature=player_detailpage#t=196s
The things is though, this place is THE ENTIRE STAGE. Since you don’t know what’s coming next, any portion of the blank space can turn into a problem at any second, and remember, this includes walls, platforms, and hitboxes.
And they still are unfairly rewarded…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CnEd8Rxepw&feature=player_detailpage#t=40s
Frigate’s flip is not instant….it has loud warning sirens to even tell you it’s coming. I can’t believe you’re equating the instant random rewards on Pictochat to something so obvious as the flip. And I’m going to call your frequency card here. Does Frigate flip every 20 seconds or so? And nice limiting your example to one character(or just tethers…which are 2 characters with tether only options), when the Pictochat example affects every matchup that can have a CG involved. Not comparable.
This one does damage as I’m sure you know, but it’s also extremely easy to combo from these spikes into a KO as well.
Don’t forget that this functions as a wall and the wind screws up with zoning and can even extend CGs(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cV7Znyjp8Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=547s). And what happens when you send your opponent off to the right, then the face appears and saves them?
It’s not that hard to do with a grab, and don’t forget the damage + stupid combo potential.
So we’re going to leave something on that has proven potential to take a stock the entire match just because it doesn’t happen often? We’re ok with random rewards being possible until this thing appears? Frequency isn’t the main thing IMO, it’s just the fact it can happen.
You’ve forgotten to include the transformations that introduce platforms anywhere. These are problematic too, and boosts the ratio up. You also didn’t include the walls that can randomly save an opponent from anywhere (to distinguish from yoshi’s) like the dominos and the clock.
Wrong, reason above.
What are you talking about? D3 vs anyone CGable, Diddy vs anyone, falco vs anyone CGable, MK vs anyone, etc. The walls affect every matchup. Don’t forget how their random appearances can punish one player and reward another, IE saving players (any MU), rewards like I said (any MU), Extending certain combos (any MU)
Fire can randomly save someone recovering, or put someone in a worse position and or limit landing options. I’ve already covered blowing above.
Does every other stage on brawl have the chance to extend CGs, create infinites, take stocks, etc. at any given point in time?
I’ve covered Frigate and Yoshi’s, plus, see the question above. But I will admit that Yoshi’s does have a good degree of randomness.
What about Pictochat’s potential to randomly reward anyone at any given time? This is a big deal
Don’t compare frigate to picto chat randomness, I explained why.
Been covered.
Potential to happen > frequency IMO. And we’ve seen all this stuff happen…
Again, I state: Does every other stage on brawl have the chance to extend CGs, create infinites, take stocks, etc. at any given point in time?
No, this stage rewards players who are in the right place at the right time…in other words, getting lucky! You can know Picto like the back of your hand, but you CANT prepare for all the possible transformations at once, and you can’t tell me that the random rewards are fair.
If you are looking to limit MK, add a stage ban, ban RC or Brinstar, or both. Don’t keep this luck fest.
If Ganon does not want to be the victim of fate then he should not use his side-b on the last stock.
This conveniently brings us back to my first point:
And what makes this case "silly"?
So if they can only remember a 5/7 name list, what happens when it goes to counter picks? Did they remember the names on the counter pick list or have to ask/look it up? If it's the former, then yes they can remember the list of 13/15. If it's the latter then how is that any different then looking up what the 13/15 name list is?
