The State of Brawl in Japan: 3rd Update 14/02/10

[Leisha]

Wow, some amazing stuff in the vids =) hope you're having funs atilla

we misses you <3

 

[Staco]

You cant say that the average japanese player is better than the average american player.
There are no videos of average japanese players.

The only thing you can say is that japanese are more techskilled in general. (that doesnt mean they are better players, espeacally in brawl)

 

[Bsrk_]

The rules in place for tournaments i find fairly baffling_ As mentioned previously, 1 match rather then best of 3 sets i find to be unusual, given the fact it leaves less opportunity for CPs which i believe is a strong aspect of Brawl diversity_ Only 'neutral' stages relates with my point above and the use of a higher time limit with SD being allowed i generally disagree with_ The SD rule could be abused if necessary and, although entertaining at times, can lead to disadvantages or 'cheap' tactics_ Although generally most players would not choose to stall or plank, this could become a viable option with the SD rule allowed_ Overall i see that the TO would have to decide when to call for stalling to stop etc_

Interesting videos Atilla_ It will be nice to hear more feedback from your experiences within the Japanese smash community_ It's good to see a different approach to Brawl being taken and what aspects we could see differently in comparison to the current 'American playstyle'_

 

[Jupz]

Nice new matches. Loved watched Kakera's IC's they seemed pretty good. He could do the infinite on lightweights but not on snake it seemed.

 

[Zankoku]

- each match starts with 3 stock. they dont keep track of stock in crew battles like we do in the west. so it is very possible for one person to beat an entire team, despite losing multiple stocks to multiple players. silly rule.
- stage selection rules are the same as the bracket system from the day before. losing player's team then selects the port and stage (out of SV, BF and FD).
- only one of each character per team.

Personally, I'm not surprised. These rules are identical to the ones used for Ketubato 3v3 back in Melee 2007. They mirror the style team battles are set up in other fighters, since throwing rounds in a crew battle for Street Fighter is a silly notion anyway.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

The Japanese must have their own equivelant of Smashboards to learn and discuss about the game and such.

Anyone knows what website they use?

 

[Scabe]

There's alot of cool stuff we could learn of the Japanese in here. I couldn't be bothered naming them all, but things like the B Bracket system is cool.

 

[skaterbaj]

i thought it was intersting when he said the one snake player approaches mk backwards..can anyone think of whyyy

 

[Chuee]

Why would a snake be approaching a mk anyways?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Why would a snake be approaching a mk anyways?

MK can safely poke Snake's shield?

 

[Melomaniacal]

What's so significant about the way that ICs player chain grabs? It's the standard back throw to down throw, except he dashes the regrab.

 

[Attila_]

mk waits outside snakes range for a small opening, then proceeds to **** him with nado. this is why snake will often walk up to him backwards; no spacing will allow mk to avoid blowing up the nade. in fact, most of his moves will force the nade to explode. but its mainly a tornado countermeasure. western mks have only started abusing it recently and rarely do it effectively imo.

in regards to the cgs, the way they do it is faster, cause its all buffered. at least thats what it looks like to me.

 

[B!squick]

I only play off handedly and I think I could take them from what I saw in those vids. And I main Bowser, lol.

 

[Zankoku]

in regards to the cgs, the way they do it is faster, cause its all buffered. at least thats what it looks like to me.

If all they do is buffer it, it would still only be a difference of a frame per throw. Certainly nothing noticeable. Besides, ICs players here chainthrow more slowly because 1. helps consistency and 2. there's no rush. I mean, I've yet to see anyone chaingrab faster than Fly Amanita did back in Axis, but I don't really see the point in increasing your speed.

 

[demonictoonlink]

That Tink was good, but really not great. I have no idea how got first...
I'm pretty sure any top U.S. player would've dominated.

 

[Shaya]

Lol @ MK not being able to hit Snake's shield if he's approaching backwards safely.

To me that's asking for a dtilt to force a shield drop (of the nade) into a rising dair to reduce their shield a bit before a shield poking TORNADO. Or perhaps *shock and horror* a dash grab?

oh **** countering the japanese metagame.

 

[.AC.]

Lol @ MK not being able to hit Snake's shield if he's approaching backwards safely.

To me that's asking for a dtilt to force a shield drop (of the nade) into a rising dair to reduce their shield a bit before a shield poking TORNADO. Or perhaps *shock and horror* a dash grab?

oh **** countering the japanese metagame.

you can just utilt the tornado lol

 

[Shaya]

From behind?

when MK's dair will shield pressure outside of utilt's vertical range and MK can start the tornado outside of snake's range easily before swooping in to **** his shield?

Seriously, once MKs at around max sword length of Snake, where Snake is in a position of having to SHIELD, Snake is in - a l o t - of trouble.

 

[Kinzer]

From behind?

That UTilt hitbox sure is broken.

 

[Shaya]

Oh I'm aware it hits behind him.

But nothing MK can't outspace.

Considering the disjoint of tornado's hitbox below him is larger than the disjoint of Snake's utilt above & behind him.
And tornado will start to out prioritise utilt with the right m2k button mashings after an extra 10 frames of the start.

 

[.AC.]

utilt beats tornado regardless of how much priority it has gained,im sure you can turn arouns and utilt in between dair and tornado.after all dair has a little bit of ending lag as well as tornado having startup.

 

[D0N]

Whenever you play a good DK main (I remember you saying that was really rare to see so if you don't...), let me know. I'll keep an eye out for when you post vids of yourself . Hope your enjoying yourself there.

 

[Shaya]

Haha @ the thought that Snake has an immediate option to beating MK's dair on shield above his head.

And Snake's utilt will clash/be cancelled out by tornado within time.
The gaining of "priority" of tornado beats utilts.

 

[Attila_]

here's a playlist from the first day of the tournament.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/16774001

not sure if you can open it without an account, someone please tell me.

@d0n: should have something up soon lol. see how much better ive gotten

 

[Staco]

My friend showed me this "approach backwards against Mk" tactic months ago.

 

[Toby.]

Sorry A', but since I have super limited internets and cannot read kanji...are there any PTs in that playlist?

 

[Attila_]

its got mk vs oli, oli vs snake, marth vs oli (b bracket) and two sets of tink vs mk.

no pts :'(

i didnt actually see a single one at either day.

 

[Jupz]

How do you watch them? When I click on them it comes up with this other screen filled with japanese.

 

[iFudge]

Teach them di lolz

 

[Attila_]

you must have to sign up to the site to view them then. its free and everything.

i could write up a guide if you guys dont wanna do a little trial and error O_o

 

[.AC.]

Haha @ the thought that Snake has an immediate option to beating MK's dair on shield above his head.

And Snake's utilt will clash/be cancelled out by tornado within time.
The gaining of "priority" of tornado beats utilts.

if you actually approached backwards with a grenade in hand and didnt explode when the mk dtilted you can grab the grenade.if he dairs unless he does a footstooled dair he will get hit by the explosion,same thing with nado.

 

[Zankoku]

The playlist has the following (in order):
Grand Finals 2 (A) - Smasher (Toon Link) vs L (Meta Knight) 2
Grand Finals 2 (A) - Smasher (Toon Link) vs L (Meta Knight) 1
Grand Finals (A) - Smasher (Toon Link) vs L (Meta Knight) 2
Grand Finals (A) - Smasher (Toon Link) vs L (Meta Knight) 1
Losers' Finals (A) - Brood (Olimar) vs L (Meta Knight) 2
Losers' Finals (A) - Brood (Olimar) vs L (Meta Knight) 1
Finals (B) - Nietono (Olimar) vs Psycho (Snake) 2
Losers' Semifinals (A) - Brood (Olimar) vs Shuu (Snake) 3
Losers' Semifinals (A) - Brood (Olimar) vs Shuu (Snake) 2
Losers' Semifinals (A) - Brood (Olimar) vs Shuu (Snake) 1
Winners' Finals? (A) - Smasher (Toon Link) vs L (Meta Knight) 3
Winners' Finals? (A) - Smasher (Toon Link) vs L (Meta Knight) 2
Winners' Finals? (A) - Smasher (Toon Link) vs L (Meta Knight) 1

I can mirror stuff on Youtube for those without Nico accounts, if any of you would request a set to be uploaded.

 

[Attila_]

thanks ankoku. made my life that much easier. all the crews vids should be up in a bit.

 

[Jupz]

Thankyou Ankoku. If it isn't too hard, could you upload Brood (Olimar) vs Shuu (Snake) Losers Finals please?
Thanks in advance, and don't worry if its too much hassle.

 

[Vlade]

Another option is to copy the nicovideo link and paste it into the nicovideo redirector: http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html

Less hassle to have an account though

 

[Attila_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfhQa2Ie_0

i just uploaded this vid to my youtube account. snake vs mk. their metagame is completely different and i recomment checked out the differences.

 

[phi1ny3]

Your video's too long for YT.

If that was one match, that must've been some really campy play lolz.

And why is the rating on this thread 3 stars anyways? It takes nerve to tell American players why people would think and develop the metagame differently than their own. And yet the Brazilian tier list thread is 5 lol.

 

[Attila_]

mustve been an error of sorts... the vid goes for 7:27.

ill try to fix it.

 

[Jobes]

How do you create an account on that site? I wanna see some Olimar =0

Edit: I found the registration page but I'm not sure what to put where XD...

 

[Attila_]

do some trial and error or open the site through www.rikai.com

it translates all the kanji on the page for you

EDIT: I converted the video i tried to upload before to avi, and now it works fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfhQa2Ie_0