adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Ken and a few other top players went over and kicked their top players' a**es.
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The State of Brawl in Japan: 3rd Update 14/02/10
- Thread starter Attila_
- Start date
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Bartolon
Smash Lord
Im so happy I have a nicovideo account =)
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I'm going to have to be really honest, those lucarios left much to be desired. One of them (Udario) used DT in the beginning of the game and made some terrible approaching choices, another (smasher) was using AA FP, which hardly works anymore in this metagame, and kept sandbagging practically for damage lol, I think the only one I liked was Naruki, and he was playing Ganon which made half the stuff that wouldn't work (like b-reversal excessively into the opponent) seem okay.
I'm not being bias, I looked at the videos and I can say that they need help.
On the other hand, YUI was pretty good, he was pretty patient and was very methodical with his approach, yet was good at changing pace.
I'm not being bias, I looked at the videos and I can say that they need help.
On the other hand, YUI was pretty good, he was pretty patient and was very methodical with his approach, yet was good at changing pace.
![Terywj [태리]](/data/avatars/l/71/71007.jpg?1555906021){kind=avatar}
Terywj [태리]
Charismatic Maknae~
Some of those were good stuff. Thanks for the vids.
-Terywj
-Terywj
zeldspazz
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,432
So, I watched all of those ROB videos.
In the first match, Smasher did well. I just think he needed to go off stage more. ROB is very good off-stage against Marth. He also needed to take more advantage of the Gyro. And that Marth didn't juggle. o.0
8823 was so slow in the first match. He didn't camp well and didn't gimp LINK. He also needed Ftilts OoS, Dtitls and a little bit more Dsmashes.
In the second match, he did better than the first one. He Dtilted, Link tripped and he didn't follow up!!!!! And continued needing the smae things said for the first match.
By the wat, Smasher has a very good Link. :D
Gano was very good... at least until the part I watched. I didn't watched the rest of the match because of that terrible G&W.
Bombsoldier was also very godd, but he DIDN'T USE ANY DSMASH!!!!!
In the first match, Smasher did well. I just think he needed to go off stage more. ROB is very good off-stage against Marth. He also needed to take more advantage of the Gyro. And that Marth didn't juggle. o.0
8823 was so slow in the first match. He didn't camp well and didn't gimp LINK. He also needed Ftilts OoS, Dtitls and a little bit more Dsmashes.
In the second match, he did better than the first one. He Dtilted, Link tripped and he didn't follow up!!!!! And continued needing the smae things said for the first match.
By the wat, Smasher has a very good Link. :D
Gano was very good... at least until the part I watched. I didn't watched the rest of the match because of that terrible G&W.
Bombsoldier was also very godd, but he DIDN'T USE ANY DSMASH!!!!!
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I think that the Lucario video I posted was the best one I've seen of the Japanese Lucarios tbh.
ghaudephaede010
Smash Journeyman
Tommy G, I was pretty sure we all knew Lucas v Dedede was the worst match up in the game...
ghaudephaede010
Smash Journeyman
The wifi lag is so much better in Japan than in America...
But it isn't! Look at the Ganon vs IC and Sheik MU.
I'm not going to say I'm a one-man SBR, but I know a ****ed up tier list when I see one. I don't feel like going in-depth, by my God, gameplay mentalities and styles cannot possibly be enough to justify some of those outrageous placements. Pit and Fox in A tier? Zelda and Sheik right below G&W? Ganon not worst? Pikachu in C?
Dear Lord Almighty.
Dear Lord Almighty.
ghaudephaede010
Smash Journeyman
I assume, some of those players feel the same way about our tier list. It really is about gameplay mentalities, styles, and use of characters that makes the biggest differences. It is a cultural thing.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
Sooooo, there was never any word on why they rejected sonic from the OPer.
Based on the videos posted RATS shows his viability in the Japanese environment, or at least a viability.
.......or that hes viable.
in any case, whats the word from Japan?
Based on the videos posted RATS shows his viability in the Japanese environment, or at least a viability.
.......or that hes viable.
in any case, whats the word from Japan?
Idk if this was posted before, but I think it will be good to let you guys know that this Tier List is the second one from Japan.
First one: http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-46412085&pid=928518
First one: http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-46412085&pid=928518
lil cj
Smash Lord
Bad for Lucas or bad for DDD?
Lucas does pretty good against D3
Thats one of his best high tier MU's and ICs too
orange/xd
Smash Ace
Whaaat are you talking about?
yeah ive kinda abandoned this thread. its basically just everyone paying out japan or saying that america is amazing or similar. ill post videos when i get some. if you want to ask me something specific, pm me please, so i dont have to search through the trash. expect vids in a week or two.
@BlazingKatakiri: where did that chart come from, out of interest?
@BlazingKatakiri: where did that chart come from, out of interest?
People have to realise that tier list is purely based on numerical addition of match ups.
Link not being [near] last (even though there are definite flaws from our perception with his top tier match ups) is due to him not getting brutally destroyed by most of the cast, he just loses to the entire cast. Western Link boards have a slew of 40:60ish disadvantages throughout the cast on the most part.
Even though bowser, sonic and ness mu ratios are pretty grim in that chart. But eh.
Link not being [near] last (even though there are definite flaws from our perception with his top tier match ups) is due to him not getting brutally destroyed by most of the cast, he just loses to the entire cast. Western Link boards have a slew of 40:60ish disadvantages throughout the cast on the most part.
Even though bowser, sonic and ness mu ratios are pretty grim in that chart. But eh.
gm jack
Smash Lord
Peach second bottom? Japan needs to run before Dark Peach sees...
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
i look at this and i can't help but wonder if in Japan there is a thread somewhere were they are talking about the US meta-game and our tier list, were some of them are talking about how the US is not as good as japan while others say the US is better. There are people looking at our tier list and saying stuff like lol sonic or why is pit so low.
MarKO X
Smash Champion
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Occasionally, SF players go to Japan to train for big events (such as jwong going to tokyo prior to evo2k9).
Basically, we won't really understand the Japanese metagame until we get some international exchanges. It would definitely help the growth of Brawl immensely.
Basically, we won't really understand the Japanese metagame until we get some international exchanges. It would definitely help the growth of Brawl immensely.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Exactly what I've been saying.
Honestly, we're probably both right on certain things, but the metagame hasn't properly developed for some characters.
J4pu
Smash Champion
I still want links to videos please.
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
Have you ever seen Japanses foxes? Good god they're scary, same with Pit. Japan lacks good G&W's yet they are still at our level, to go with that, the japanese have amazing precision with lightning kicks Zelda and gimps for Sheik. But I'm not such about Pikachu though, I'm probably uneducated but do they have Anther-esque Pika's over in Japan?
humble
Smash Ace
Guys I have watched tons of their videos, and have cousins who live in japan and play brawl. They are without a doubt worse then the US metagame. Oh and about Pit, Japanese pit is overrated. Foxs inherent weaknesses aren't abused. They do not play as gay as we do. (and yes, that rain video where he went 4 minutes without approaching wasn't an actual match) they camp fine, but we still are gayer, and ultimately better here stateside. And to those people saying "its not that one is better then the other, its just different, its a cultural thing." It isn't a cultural thing, it is the same game with the same mechanics and there exists a larger, more advanced and more competitive scene here in the States.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
If the japanese metagame is so behind America's why did they come up with the ledge grab rule which we then adopted? Their matches also consist of games with 10 minute time limits I wonder if we will increase the timer. It just seems strange that for a superior metagame as ours to incorporate things from their inferior metagame. Just saying. Could you go into more detail as to how they do not exploit fox's weakness.
gm jack
Smash Lord
Fox still gets gayed by Pika, Sheik and I'm sure there is at least one more. Pika chain grabs him to hell and back and Sheik can go from 27% to death in a true combo.
There are good Zeldas and Sheiks in the US, but people can counterpick Zelda to death at least, and Sheik, while under-rated, simply lacks lots of good top tier matchups, even if very few are bad. We do all that stuff too. They must not couter pick as gay if those characters can get away with it.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
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- 3,679
Scary doesn't mean squat. FoW is scary as Ness, guess he deserves A tier. Face it, Japan's tier isn't accurate. Plain and simple.
I think Brawl is like the only game they are behind us at.
Edit: Did the OP just state that with perfect spacing you can avoid getting grabbed from the Ice Climbers? Did you just justify a broken characters placing at C tier!
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
says who...
humble
Smash Ace
Because they tended towards camping the ledges, and we camped the ledges too so we put a limit on it as well. Feel free to wonder, I don't really look forward to extending the matches. It isn't strange, and I don't think there was any imitation when we added the ledge grab rule- we just happened to arrive at the same solution as they did to the issue of planking. Read the post right after yours.
SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
Smash Rookie
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here are 2 more from 12/22/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6h1MFiN9jM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7neKT1mCMFQ
Japanese players are more proficient/persistent overall with SDI/technical aspects of the game than American players from what I have seen. I think we have a better overall understanding of how to play the game correctly though.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
You can't say anything about IC's, their grabs are too powerful!!!
TOP 5 CHARACTER!!!
DON'T GET GRABBED NOT VALID ARGUMENT!!!!
ROBOT CEASING FUNCTIONS.... POWER RESERVE DEPLETED... SHUT DOWN PROCEEDING...
*asdjakldjklaflarblegarblegarble*
Lol yeah their Anti IC game is pretty good. They don't have that many top IC players though to start with, so it's kinda hard sometimes to gauge how well they would do against Lain/Meep/Hylian/etc.
TOP 5 CHARACTER!!!
DON'T GET GRABBED NOT VALID ARGUMENT!!!!
ROBOT CEASING FUNCTIONS.... POWER RESERVE DEPLETED... SHUT DOWN PROCEEDING...
*asdjakldjklaflarblegarblegarble*
Lol yeah their Anti IC game is pretty good. They don't have that many top IC players though to start with, so it's kinda hard sometimes to gauge how well they would do against Lain/Meep/Hylian/etc.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Most people base Japan's smash metagame off of a couple of videos, which is a wrong thing to do. We don't know what's going on there. We don't know what's being discussed there. All we're given are videos, so why are people basing Japan's metagame on those alone? A video shows X player, with Z1 character Vs. Y player with Z2 character. That doesn't give you the right to base their entier metagame on that alone, why would you?
I personally believe; America's top players are much better than Japan's top players, and Japan's average players are much better than America's. America does have a better metagame overall, thanks to a few individual players we have here.
I personally believe; America's top players are much better than Japan's top players, and Japan's average players are much better than America's. America does have a better metagame overall, thanks to a few individual players we have here.