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The Role of Money in the Smash Community + Growth Talks
- Thread starter CAOTIC
- Start date
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
smash gets the *** end most of the time because of the stigma that its not a "true" fighting game.
a true fighting game having 3 major properties
1. fighting
2. hadouken
3. streets
I remember seeing an article on.. shadowloo I think.. about the money splitting thing with m2k and the red/yellow card system. 90% of the comments wer "lol smash isnt a fighting game lolol" "I thought this was a website about fighters.. why are you talking about mario?" etc etc
a true fighting game having 3 major properties
1. fighting
2. hadouken
3. streets
I remember seeing an article on.. shadowloo I think.. about the money splitting thing with m2k and the red/yellow card system. 90% of the comments wer "lol smash isnt a fighting game lolol" "I thought this was a website about fighters.. why are you talking about mario?" etc etc
ah so as long as it has a super combo bar its a real game?
makes me hate most sf players because of that exact reason
edit - i showed a couple of sff4 players this and they still have that stupid mindset > http://www.genesisdbr.com/blog/?p=78
makes me hate most sf players because of that exact reason
edit - i showed a couple of sff4 players this and they still have that stupid mindset > http://www.genesisdbr.com/blog/?p=78
TakFR
Smash Lord
Could write a long *** post about the sf scene and smash scene comparison and their opinions on each game series, might do it later >_>
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
If we didn't strive so hard to get the SF community to accept us then I doubt they'd treat us like the pathetic children we sometimes act like :/
The smash community has survived by itself for a long time and many traditional fighting players dabble in casual smash or at least respect Melee's technicality and the like. Most of the players I've asked dislike the players much more than the game.
The smash community has survived by itself for a long time and many traditional fighting players dabble in casual smash or at least respect Melee's technicality and the like. Most of the players I've asked dislike the players much more than the game.
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
Germs a goober
and that article was bias as fak
and that article was bias as fak
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Please tell me you're joking...
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
well its more like what extra do you expect from cw?
we get the exact same treatment as the other games. What extra do you guys actually want from cw?
we get the exact same treatment as the other games. What extra do you guys actually want from cw?
Dekar289
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2007
- Messages
- 6,306
your post shows how little you really know about CW rofl
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
are you talking community wise? or from a CW running point of view.
We run the events, not dictate them.
The way the SF community treats smash (not that i have any issue with it) is something we at CW are not here to dictate
We run the events, not dictate them.
The way the SF community treats smash (not that i have any issue with it) is something we at CW are not here to dictate
Interesting read. I didn't know money was so big in the Aussie scene. Of course we all know about the frequent monetary drama in the US and I for one am often glad that not a lot of money goes around in the European smash scene. No splitting drama, less greed. We've built up top players (including the current Melee world champion) regardless. The only thing that sometimes saddens me is that mediocre players in the US can win more locally than our best players, simply due to the size of their scene and the frequency of events.
Money can be a good incentive if you have a shot at placing in it, so you should definitely pay out more than top 3 if you have enough of it. You could also invest some in advertising or even small lotteries everyone automatically enters if they enter the tournaments. So many options if you have it, no need for it to just be prize money.
Money can be a good incentive if you have a shot at placing in it, so you should definitely pay out more than top 3 if you have enough of it. You could also invest some in advertising or even small lotteries everyone automatically enters if they enter the tournaments. So many options if you have it, no need for it to just be prize money.
Dekar289
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2007
- Messages
- 6,306
cw
take bam for instance
you've got them screaming into the mic which is being blasted through speakers right at our brawlers during their grand finals. at one point players were getting so distracted i went and asked loki about it, and he said to ask the sound people, so i did, to which one person said "i don't care" and the other said he couldn't control speakers separately so it was to stay on
an article appeared on kotaku discussing bam, in which the only mention smash got was "other fighting games communities..." "and the 'unique' smash bros community". no photos of smash or mention of mango. what we sorely need atm and somewhere along the lines a cw rep has obviously shunned us.
the bam website schedule for smash was completely wrong, and links to the smash section of bam were always listed at the bottom of every list on the site. surely smash should be at least listed second behind street fighter, especially when the best player in the world is in attendance.
just a few examples
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
Like the rest of your post was good, but anyone without some euro bias can easily see that mango was the better player there.
In all logic, when armada wins more than one title and can prove himself to consistently beat pp (when he is not dying) or mango (when he even tries) then you can maybe claim he is the best.
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
so wrong its ridiculous
The audio stuff is simply a matter of one game with 80+ watchers, vs one game with 40~ watchers at most. It sucks but just because us 40~ don't want to listen to something (and yes they couldn't configure it manually, I've seen the setup they gave bugs) does not mean we should shaft the experience for the other 80.
That issue is simply a matter of there being no solution that suits both parties, and thus the solution that appeals to more people is chosen.
The Kotaku article appeals to the general public, most of which care more about SF than smash. That's what the people at Kotaku themselves wanted to cover, not us. We don't have the power to change was Kotaku want to cover, we just have to be happy they're willing to provide us coverage.
If anything cry to Kotaku that they don't provide smash enough love, I've been in contact with Tracy who did the article and she had little to no interest in Aus smash, not CW's fault.
The bam website schedule was completely wrong because I didn't provide Loki with a timetable. No timetable was decided until almost the day since I was purely going off attendance. Crews didn't even happen. The tags got printed a week before the event and I found it too hard to settle on a specific schedule until the day itself.
That's my fault there, not CW.
If we put smash above any traditional fighting games apart from maybe BB, you can say goodbye to any sponsorship from capcom/sega/benq so on.
I hope you're a bit more enlightened with the inner workings here.
TakFR
Smash Lord
The person you spoke to may have just been a member of the sf scene rather then a CW committee member themselves. I can pretty much tell you that NO ONE on the CW committee is bias against smash, in fact even though most of them don't play they are still willing to help whenever they can. If it was a CW person, then I apologise (I don't really see them doing something like that)
Timic83
Smash Ace
itt: dekar trying to fix what aint broken
try going to america where smash and fighting game scenes are 100% seperate. not cool
try going to america where smash and fighting game scenes are 100% seperate. not cool
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
should ask Dave how MLG used to treat smash.. oh lawdy
I think CW is doing fine for us.
I'm great greatful for there assistance, I didn't realise there were any issues.
It's certainly more important for us to expand the scene we actually have so we can have more impact on the thing as whole... maybe when we get the hype to our finals, the attendance to our tournaments, then they will be turning off the microphone for smash.
We really are just a small community at the moment and it's our responsibility to fix that not CW.
Our events and the priorities we are given by the venue are smaller because our player base and ability to draw crowds are smaller.
I'm great greatful for there assistance, I didn't realise there were any issues.
It's certainly more important for us to expand the scene we actually have so we can have more impact on the thing as whole... maybe when we get the hype to our finals, the attendance to our tournaments, then they will be turning off the microphone for smash.
We really are just a small community at the moment and it's our responsibility to fix that not CW.
Our events and the priorities we are given by the venue are smaller because our player base and ability to draw crowds are smaller.
I should probably provide some context about my position with CW.
For the first half of CW's history (2007-2009), Smash was the bigger scene than the Capcom fighters. This had been the case right up until Street Fighter 4 was launched. Ever since then, the SF scene has taken over as the dominant force. However, the bias towards the identity and developments of CW has always been with SF, from the beginning until now.
This is because Melbourne's SF scene is made up of a highly talented team of growth managers and leaders. For the longest time, the CW committee would be made up of about 5-8 community organizers who would meet frequently to discuss and strategies about future growth. I was the only person who represented Smash, which was disproportionate. We were sorely lacking in leaders who could not only represent us, but utilize the strength we had in numbers to equalize the bias and lead CW as much as the SF guys.
Yes, we are grateful that they prop us up now, but we used to prop them up as well. CW was founded on a collaboration of different fighters, because the only way we could have grown at the time, was to stick to each other and move up together.
However, now that Street Fighter has grown disproportionally large, I feel the pendulum is beginning to swing away from our control completely -- especially in regards to Shadowloo Showdown becoming the new premier tournament of fighting games in Australia, and absorbing CW in the process.
I instinctively feel that Shadowloo Showdown was envisioned to be the ultimate tournament for all things Capcom in Australia (and the world), and Smash is indirectly not a welcome presence in that environment. There is no proof of this -- it is just my gut instinct. The absence of Smash makes for a more authentic SF exclusive atmosphere and their players enjoy that.
I am genuinely threatened by SS and the devotion the CW board naturally gives to it.
BAM, as a result of the Shadowloo Showdown's runaway successes (on the back of CW's resources for that matter -- which Smash helped grow), has been demoted as the premiere tournament -- and now re-badged to be just about satisfying a SF rivalry between Melbourne and Sydney. Bugger the idea of trying to bring up Smash to the global podium with SS, bugger reconciling dates to suit us, let those Smash kids fend for themselves, right?
I have always felt this way. The SF guys know I complain to them about these things. But it's only because I've always felt Smash deserves better. It's not CW's fault that things are the way they are -- the bottom line does lie with us.
However, assuming the SS movement takes pole position with CW's interests, Smash will inevitably be locked out of potential opportunities. If that happens, we'd need to seriously redefine our terms with them, to ensure our interests are still important. Redact's on to this hopefully, and I got his back.
2C
For the first half of CW's history (2007-2009), Smash was the bigger scene than the Capcom fighters. This had been the case right up until Street Fighter 4 was launched. Ever since then, the SF scene has taken over as the dominant force. However, the bias towards the identity and developments of CW has always been with SF, from the beginning until now.
This is because Melbourne's SF scene is made up of a highly talented team of growth managers and leaders. For the longest time, the CW committee would be made up of about 5-8 community organizers who would meet frequently to discuss and strategies about future growth. I was the only person who represented Smash, which was disproportionate. We were sorely lacking in leaders who could not only represent us, but utilize the strength we had in numbers to equalize the bias and lead CW as much as the SF guys.
Yes, we are grateful that they prop us up now, but we used to prop them up as well. CW was founded on a collaboration of different fighters, because the only way we could have grown at the time, was to stick to each other and move up together.
However, now that Street Fighter has grown disproportionally large, I feel the pendulum is beginning to swing away from our control completely -- especially in regards to Shadowloo Showdown becoming the new premier tournament of fighting games in Australia, and absorbing CW in the process.
I instinctively feel that Shadowloo Showdown was envisioned to be the ultimate tournament for all things Capcom in Australia (and the world), and Smash is indirectly not a welcome presence in that environment. There is no proof of this -- it is just my gut instinct. The absence of Smash makes for a more authentic SF exclusive atmosphere and their players enjoy that.
I am genuinely threatened by SS and the devotion the CW board naturally gives to it.
BAM, as a result of the Shadowloo Showdown's runaway successes (on the back of CW's resources for that matter -- which Smash helped grow), has been demoted as the premiere tournament -- and now re-badged to be just about satisfying a SF rivalry between Melbourne and Sydney. Bugger the idea of trying to bring up Smash to the global podium with SS, bugger reconciling dates to suit us, let those Smash kids fend for themselves, right?
I have always felt this way. The SF guys know I complain to them about these things. But it's only because I've always felt Smash deserves better. It's not CW's fault that things are the way they are -- the bottom line does lie with us.
However, assuming the SS movement takes pole position with CW's interests, Smash will inevitably be locked out of potential opportunities. If that happens, we'd need to seriously redefine our terms with them, to ensure our interests are still important. Redact's on to this hopefully, and I got his back.
2C
my 2c
i've only been around since '09, so i don't know how things went down before then.
since that time, i've seen our smash scene fall pretty dramatically, in both number and influence.
once upon a time, we played monthlies on projectors and had a microphone... which was fitting, given that we paid the preponderance of the entrance fee.
that was then.
now smash is crumbling, and the sf4 guys significantly outnumber us. and as a result, we're shunted to a corner, and play in silence.
i'm not complaining, because quite frankly, if we're not backing up our game, this is what is ought to happen. sf4 guys should keep their projector and their mic, because after all, they're the ones paying to be there.
we're just filling in space.
i'm definitely not blaming cw, but its clear that they really don't care about us at this point.
in fact, it's up to us... we have to prove once again that we are worth caring about. we need to back up our tournaments with numbers and vigor... grow some passion and make some noise.
i've only been around since '09, so i don't know how things went down before then.
since that time, i've seen our smash scene fall pretty dramatically, in both number and influence.
once upon a time, we played monthlies on projectors and had a microphone... which was fitting, given that we paid the preponderance of the entrance fee.
that was then.
now smash is crumbling, and the sf4 guys significantly outnumber us. and as a result, we're shunted to a corner, and play in silence.
i'm not complaining, because quite frankly, if we're not backing up our game, this is what is ought to happen. sf4 guys should keep their projector and their mic, because after all, they're the ones paying to be there.
we're just filling in space.
i'm definitely not blaming cw, but its clear that they really don't care about us at this point.
in fact, it's up to us... we have to prove once again that we are worth caring about. we need to back up our tournaments with numbers and vigor... grow some passion and make some noise.
I don't think we're going too badly with CW. I mean the fact that they tolerate us is more than the Americans can say for themselves in regards to the traditional fighter/smash scene.
Also every sf player I've talked to was even indifferent about smash or had no idea it was competitive. Just last night I was showing a top mortal kombat player (lol) some competitive melee videos and he was ****ing impressed. (Steered away from Brawl completely though)
We should kick brawl out and completely merge with the CW scene like MvC3 did.
Also every sf player I've talked to was even indifferent about smash or had no idea it was competitive. Just last night I was showing a top mortal kombat player (lol) some competitive melee videos and he was ****ing impressed. (Steered away from Brawl completely though)
We should kick brawl out and completely merge with the CW scene like MvC3 did.
lawl what's CW?
Shaya I was being serious!
I don't know what CW is!
I don't know what CW is!
CW is couchwarriors.
This is a reasonably serious topic, and it isn't made to babysit people who have no idea what's going on.
This is a reasonably serious topic, and it isn't made to babysit people who have no idea what's going on.
I'm sawry.
I'll leave now.
I'll leave now.
TakFR
Smash Lord
To be fair though, the SF scene has so many people who are actively supporting and helping the scene by actually doing more then just turning up and playing the game (for example Bugs was handling the stream pretty much all weekend or at least 90% of the time, find someone in the smash scene right now who would do that =P). Smash does not really have this, it's more about turning up, playing the game and then leaving.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
oi shaya, leave the kid alone.
listen this whole sf thing could be solved with a simple attitude adjustment.
**** streetfigher, who cares about them, if they have anything to say then just tell them to go get ****ed and move on
listen this whole sf thing could be solved with a simple attitude adjustment.
**** streetfigher, who cares about them, if they have anything to say then just tell them to go get ****ed and move on
i think oos sponserships are a big winner. even if they're only partial (like, half of the cost) it still makes a huge difference to having people attend.
and more people means a bigger and better event.
i don't mind sharing with CW. they don't do much for us, but they don't ask much either. although it's definitely easier to leech of their hard work.
like i said earlier, if we were more so worth caring about, they would care about us more. this is our burden, not theirs.
i think we need more events, both smash related and social, to make people more inclined to stay in the scene. we need to get more people on the boards, so we can keep in contact with them. and we need to create more hype in tournaments, because this keeps people interested and coming back.
my 2c
and more people means a bigger and better event.
i don't mind sharing with CW. they don't do much for us, but they don't ask much either. although it's definitely easier to leech of their hard work.
like i said earlier, if we were more so worth caring about, they would care about us more. this is our burden, not theirs.
i think we need more events, both smash related and social, to make people more inclined to stay in the scene. we need to get more people on the boards, so we can keep in contact with them. and we need to create more hype in tournaments, because this keeps people interested and coming back.
my 2c
Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 2,271
- Location
- Kings Park, Melbourne
- NNID
- Jei_Soul
- 3DS FC
- 1564-4103-8935
Also as attila said, more social outings. I'm on the brink of leaving the scene atm because I don't see anything left for me here.
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
Where can these social outings happen though? you meaning meetups in the city to do activities? Or something like someone hosts smash at their house? The smash house thing wont work becauase nobody can anyway.
Would be nice if we could find a venue closer to the city or something, but it'll mostly cost far too much plus we wont have enough people to cover the venue. Box Hill is out of the way for alot of people, so I see this as a reason to not bother attending. If only nintendo could sponsor us or something... Like that'll ever happen... LOL.
I would donate and help the scene if work actually gave me shifts, but I barely get 10-15 hours a week now. So yeah, life johns.
I also gave up on social outings and such because when I did offer, no one was interested. I dont know whether this is because I'm not popular in the scene or not, but I did try regardless.
Would be nice if we could find a venue closer to the city or something, but it'll mostly cost far too much plus we wont have enough people to cover the venue. Box Hill is out of the way for alot of people, so I see this as a reason to not bother attending. If only nintendo could sponsor us or something... Like that'll ever happen... LOL.
I would donate and help the scene if work actually gave me shifts, but I barely get 10-15 hours a week now. So yeah, life johns.
I also gave up on social outings and such because when I did offer, no one was interested. I dont know whether this is because I'm not popular in the scene or not, but I did try regardless.
City adventures always seem to work. You guys have such good nightlife over there, it's a shame to waste it. If not for yourselves, do it for the lowly saps in Perth who are softbanned from staying out past 2am due to no getting home options.
That's right, do it for me. Every fortnight. Melbourne Trek: Good ol' Days.
That's right, do it for me. Every fortnight. Melbourne Trek: Good ol' Days.
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
Only problem with that is the younger people probably cant get involved. But It depends on the age groups you recruit i guess
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
I think jei did talk to that guy, Dont know whether he heard back from him though. We nearly had something going through for manifest too, but we lost contact with the person in charge.
Sigh at everything crashing and burning rofl.
Sigh at everything crashing and burning rofl.
I've been in contact with supanova in the past. Next year I'll probably be running smash comps in sydney for the event, and it may be possible to extend that to other states (Perth already does).
Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 2,271
- Location
- Kings Park, Melbourne
- NNID
- Jei_Soul
- 3DS FC
- 1564-4103-8935
Initiative? Yug walked up to me and told me to email him. I did. About 12 times. Never got a reply.
I understand he's busy and all but dayum.
The manifest guy is just a lot of talk I reckon. He had this good idea which would no doubt blow up the Brawl scene by heaps but he's pretty lazy.
I understand he's busy and all but dayum.
The manifest guy is just a lot of talk I reckon. He had this good idea which would no doubt blow up the Brawl scene by heaps but he's pretty lazy.
@Shaya: Perth already -did-. No one that goes to Supanova in Perth wants to play competitive anything. And parents leave their children with you. Like seriously. I think they thought we were a daycare centre. Even though no one was looking after the kid. He could have pretty easily just gotten up and left and no one would have known. But yeah, if you run it, hopefully you have better luck 