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The Old Diddy Social/General/Q&A Thread

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sai_:)

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Ingulit we do the same thing. I don't care much about staling f-smash because I NEVER focus on killing with that. I try not to even use d-smash till like at least 140 at the earliest. even higher depending on the character. It does a decent amount of damage so its great for that. I use it in conjunction with the tilts fairs and bairs and naners all for racking damage. the kill move is d-smash. a quick bair or semi refreshed fair work as well but i never see a reason to use f-smash as a kill move.
 

phi1ny3

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I feel the same way, unless they're a really big character that if you don't kill with dsmash they live for much longer, in which you'll probably need a second fresh killer probably.
 

phi1ny3

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bananas?
grab pummels b4 throwing?

I really don't know, everyone who's played my Diddy doesn't deal too well with bananas, but that's because I don't bring him out like at all lol.
 

sai_:)

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I try to abuse pummels and tilts...this may seem like a dumb *** question...but DO bananas refresh moves? (I...I should definitely know this at this point)

If they do refresh moves then great there's that to. Also Side b is great for this too.
 

Player-1

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I use Fsmash for both damage racking and killing. I said 0-40 because you can easily refresh your fsmash for a kill before you get to killing percents at those low percents, and Fsmash is great for punishing airdodges
 

leffen

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u can use fsmash all the way to 100% on some chars, u will hit with wayy to many bananas for it to matter anyway. also diddys pummels are too fast so if u wanna refresh u need to wait some between grab pummels.
also remember that fsmash only counts as 1 stale move ( not 2 ).
 

Ingulit

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...diddys pummels are too fast so if u wanna refresh u need to wait some between grab pummels.
also remember that fsmash only counts as 1 stale move ( not 2 ).
1) I forgot, but does each pummel count towards the stale moves stack separately? As in, if you pummel three times, are you refreshing your moves three times or once?

2) The fact that F-Smash will stale even if you only hit with the first hit sucks, especially if the person you're playing can SDI out of it.

3) (unrelated to above quote) Diddy's AAA combo only counts as 3 off the stale moves stack, right? As in, even if you hit the opponent with Diddy's tail multiple times, it still only counts the entire group of hits as one move... I think.


P1, out of curiosity, do you find yourself using either F-Smash or D-Smash to kill more often than the other? If so, which?
 

leffen

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only 1 if u do it as fast as possible, afaik just wait half a second between or smth dont remember exactly then pummel and throw and you will get 2.
diddys jab total is 1 afaik.
 

mdmfromdaridge

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I like to thing of this way

0%-80 or 90%- Fsmash can work for a good damage build up. I commonly will use this quite a bit early in the match (not spam so don't think it) in conjunction with banana trips, grabs, and utilt uair hits.

80 or 90% - 120 or 130% -This is when you need to prepare for the kill, fsmash is stale but dsmash doesn't have as much range so you must be prepared with both. That being said, when it gets to these high percentages, my dtilt and ftilt start becoming more prevailent along with my usmash and my utilt. That along with gratuitous amounts of pummeling. All of this is done with the sole purpose of refreshing kill moves. (Bananas are always a constant of course.)

130%- KO - This is when the fsmash re-emerges with it's awesome counterpart, the dsmash. The bananas are now, as always your kill setups, so long as you can spring that dsmash at the right time or whatnot, you will do fine. If their damage gets obnoxiously high, then theres probably a chance that your smashs are no longer fresh and that somehow they survived, if thats the case, you most likely can kill with uair, ftilt, or utilt.


This is the general way I think about it, I don't see a point in 'saving your kill move' if you aren't in kill range. That being said, I think it's entirely possible to use fsmash all the way up until they are in kill range, then a few hits later from other attacks, and your fsmash is your kill move once again. Refreshing an attack can happen in a matter of seconds, and diddy is amazing at setting up smash kills with his bananas. That being said, there shouldn't be many worries about stale moves so long as when the time comes, you prepare yourself.
 

leffen

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not only is dsmash stronger but it also is not smash di'able and doesnt "drag" your opponent towards you, thus kills even earlier ( and has lower startup, 6 frames ).

also LOL at starting to use more of a move ( ie dtilt / ftilt etc ) just for unstaling, ESP on high% .
 

mdmfromdaridge

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There's a place for everything leffen. Don't be so presumptuous and assume that I don't understand what place these moves have. Every character has a specific set of options, I didn't say to use those attacks when they're in kill range, but can you give me a good reason to fsmash or dsmash someone at 90% ? I know that it knocks them off stage but we weren't talking about gimps. So whats wrong with the idea of unstaling? People do it all the time, attempt to use other moves for unstalling. Besides, i also said that pummels and bananas will be taken into account. I didn't say 'spam ftilt' or 'spam dtilt'.

That leads me to another thing, peanuts. Use them too.
 

phi1ny3

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1) I forgot, but does each pummel count towards the stale moves stack separately? As in, if you pummel three times, are you refreshing your moves three times or once?

2) The fact that F-Smash will stale even if you only hit with the first hit sucks, especially if the person you're playing can SDI out of it.

3) (unrelated to above quote) Diddy's AAA combo only counts as 3 off the stale moves stack, right? As in, even if you hit the opponent with Diddy's tail multiple times, it still only counts the entire group of hits as one move... I think.


P1, out of curiosity, do you find yourself using either F-Smash or D-Smash to kill more often than the other? If so, which?
1. You have to do it a bit more slowly than trying to go as fast as possible, otherwise they won't count individually iirc

2.Very true, dsmash > fsmash for guaranteed killing

3.Diddy jab combo will only refresh by 3, if more multihit moves were to stale for each hit, Marth DB 4th down hit would probably be used much more often regardless of how escapable it is b/c it would practically refresh everything with one series of DB :p.

This is the general way I think about it, I don't see a point in 'saving your kill move' if you aren't in kill range. That being said, I think it's entirely possible to use fsmash all the way up until they are in kill range, then a few hits later from other attacks, and your fsmash is your kill move once again. Refreshing an attack can happen in a matter of seconds, and diddy is amazing at setting up smash kills with his bananas. That being said, there shouldn't be many worries about stale moves so long as when the time comes, you prepare yourself.
Traditionally, opponents become more wary of kill moves (and moves in general) at higher percents, it's natural therefore to score quicker and smaller attacks that are easier to land, because using you kill moves as damage rackers at about mid-high percents is usually not a very effective method for any character. Some of these moves also make an opponent more open to a kill move.
 

leffen

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you miss the point.
Diddys dtilt is much better at lower percent, and going that close to an enemy at high percent might as well ask for a kill move in the face ( ie, shuttle loop, dsmash, ftilt, ) since 1 attack ( even fairs and stuff ) will break your setups, ie adhd setup => dtilt OH HI FAIR off the stage vs marth with no bananas thank you. At lower percents many options are not as viable vs the dtilt.
The ftilt is only good if you are sure to hit with it, ie after banana combo. On higher percents you might as well grab -> pummel -> adhd setup -> peanuts => non stale.
( you can use it as a mixup or where you cant hit with something else though, but that is for all % )
of course not use ur kill moves as damage racker at high %, at high % ur opponent should not be able to be hit by those anyway.

the point is that STARTING to use dtilt / ftilt at higher % is nearly useless, since peanuts + bananas will do your job anyway at that point.
 

Player-1

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1) I forgot, but does each pummel count towards the stale moves stack separately? As in, if you pummel three times, are you refreshing your moves three times or once?

2) The fact that F-Smash will stale even if you only hit with the first hit sucks, especially if the person you're playing can SDI out of it.

3) (unrelated to above quote) Diddy's AAA combo only counts as 3 off the stale moves stack, right? As in, even if you hit the opponent with Diddy's tail multiple times, it still only counts the entire group of hits as one move... I think.


P1, out of curiosity, do you find yourself using either F-Smash or D-Smash to kill more often than the other? If so, which?
again character dependent. Fair is my favorite kill move, you can SH rising fair while they're on the ground EVERY character EXCEPT MK. Luigi I usually kill with fair or fsmash, I usually kill MK with dsmash, Snake is a mix between the 3, it just depends on the character and their playstyle because Fsmash is a lot better than dsmash in certain situations that arise often.
 

Player-1

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yeah, every char except one who has a fast attack and brain :p. ( spot dodge / ps / shield => dash attack, boost grab ). gg
what? I didn't say anything about grabbing or dash attack. And I meant exactly what I said, Diddy can rising fair every character, assuming both people are on level ground, everyone except MK, he's too short.
 

DFEAR

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u can bair mk tho : >. and i dont use fsmash against luigi cuz one luigi down here sdi's first hit of fsmash into his upb...ugh
 

DK SPEED DK

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I'm not sure if i should be asking this here but i didnt see a peach guide up in the match-up thread.

Lately i have been having alot of problems with peach and her dair.

So my question is what is the best way to punish peach's dair?
 

ADHD

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Dtilt is good no matter what percent. The point is not what it leads to--because it can't lead into anything without the possibility of being punished--the point is it's slight mid-range, fast hitbox. It's good up close against metaknight every now and then, the situation is rare but you can find it.
 

Ingulit

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you miss the point.
Diddys dtilt is much better at lower percent, and going that close to an enemy at high percent might as well ask for a kill move in the face ( ie, shuttle loop, dsmash, ftilt, ) since 1 attack ( even fairs and stuff ) will break your setups, ie adhd setup => dtilt OH HI FAIR off the stage vs marth with no bananas thank you. At lower percents many options are not as viable vs the dtilt.
The ftilt is only good if you are sure to hit with it, ie after banana combo. On higher percents you might as well grab -> pummel -> adhd setup -> peanuts => non stale.
( you can use it as a mixup or where you cant hit with something else though, but that is for all % )
of course not use ur kill moves as damage racker at high %, at high % ur opponent should not be able to be hit by those anyway.

the point is that STARTING to use dtilt / ftilt at higher % is nearly useless, since peanuts + bananas will do your job anyway at that point.
yeah, every char except one who has a fast attack and brain :p. ( spot dodge / ps / shield => dash attack, boost grab ). gg
I hate to say it, but if you're speaking English, I can't understand it anymore. And WTF is an "adhd setup"?

Thanks ill try it from now on.
LOL... I don't think ADHD was talking to you, mate ;P

I prefer timing it when they fall down so only the 2nd hit hits.
I was also wondering about this; the second hitbox does come out a lot farther from Diddy than the first, so it's not terribly hard to whiff the first hit on purpose. Still, that's a LOT slower than D-Smash, albeit it has considerably more range.

Also, I've been meaning to ask this for a long time, P-1:
Player-1 said:
rarrRgfahcgkdrarfgaarfa
what is this I don't even
 

Conti

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The point behind the lazer spam is aggro. After getting hit with 20 lazers you get pissed off and start being more aggresive, when he sees you jumping through the air as aggresively as possible, then all he has to do is side b and now you guys just switched spots. USE YOUR SHIELD. Block the lazers and his sideB and you should be fine. If you can predict him, and you KNOW he's gonna do something, then the only explanation for not punishing is you didn't consider how to. On a side note, if you get behind falco when he reflector spams (i'm assuming the lazer spamming sideB running away guy isn't professional level) then it's essentially a free grab. If you have your bananas over there, then do a banana lock to the edge into a Fsmash or Dsmash.
So I can't believe it I did what u said... slowed my game down... and literally turnd the match completely around... running sheild's bait the reflecter... punished... baited spot dodges... it was working and it wuz awsome.... I won pretty much every match.... thank you very much

And Fsmash is a better damage racker.... dsmash is quicker and can hit people in sheild better... imo
 

Count

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the adhd setup he was referrring to was probably nana in hand, nana in front, shooting peanuts. I use it all the time too because I'm the only diddy that plays as gay as wyatt. Just not as well :(
 

Ingulit

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the adhd setup he was referrring to was probably nana in hand, nana in front, shooting peanuts. I use it all the time too because I'm the only diddy that plays as gay as wyatt. Just not as well :(
Apparently you don't understand Diddy's metagame very well, then

That's EXACTLY what Diddy players are doing nowadays

And I really don't think ADHD came up with it :\ (nothing against him, but still)
 

DFEAR

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meh its all about baiting and punishing...dunno what the hell u guys are talkin about...
 

Grizzer

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I've never been able to camp... (is it even possible to camp against lucario? :p)
except against my friend's Wario... which is stupid cause he just waits untill one banana goes away and then attacks -_-
 

6Mizu

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I've never been able to camp... (is it even possible to camp against lucario? :p)
except against my friend's Wario... which is stupid cause he just waits untill one banana goes away and then attacks -_-
I would think it is. If you don't know how....just learn the MU.
Just cause he has a superior Roll and an "okay" projectile.....doesn't make him hard to camp.
 

Conti

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Baiting n punishing ftw...
Falco I cudnt bait or punish... his spotdodge n reflector threwoff my entire game... I just suckd at it... but now I have a generally better idea :]

And the "adhd setup" is what every1 does these days
 

DFEAR

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camping and aggro is fine on their own.


some people respond to camping differently then they do aggro. if u notice ppl fall under pressure ****ing obliterate them aggro wise if they cant deal with camping then by all means camp but a mixture of both is always cool...

btw adapting gets stupid sometimes...
 
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