The Official Yoshi FAQ/Q&A Thread -- [Please look here before posting!]

[Bwett]

I've tried constantly to SDI out of Zelda's usmash. It's ridiculously difficult. I think you have to do it within the initial frames. If you catch the beginning part, you're basically there for the entire ride lol. In general, learn how to shield more against Zelda. You can't be shield poked. Major plus for Yoshi.

 

[bigman40]

I've tried constantly to SDI out of Zelda's usmash. It's ridiculously difficult. I think you have to do it within the initial frames. If you catch the beginning part, you're basically there for the entire ride lol. In general, learn how to shield more against Zelda. You can't be shield poked. Major plus for Yoshi.

I've been told that you have to DI down to get out and that it's only in certain moments where you can get out. Only the small characters can initally get out, while bigger characters can't do anything about it cause they can't dodge the move when DI'ing down.


~Mieu

 

[Silent Beast]

I've tried constantly to SDI out of Zelda's usmash. It's ridiculously difficult. I think you have to do it within the initial frames. If you catch the beginning part, you're basically there for the entire ride lol. In general, learn how to shield more against Zelda. You can't be shield poked. Major plus for Yoshi.

I've been told that you have to DI down to get out and that it's only in certain moments where you can get out. Only the small characters can initally get out, while bigger characters can't do anything about it cause they can't dodge the move when DI'ing down.


~Mieu

I've also heard that once it's been staled, you can't SDI out of it because the individual hits don't do enough damage (<1%) to allow SDI.

 

[YoshiIslander77z]

does bwett still use yoshi alil ?

 

[JOE!]

hmn, so if you get caught once by it within 10 moves of the second, you're pretty much screwed?

eh, thanks for the info

 

[Bwett]

I still use Yoshi from time to time, either to brush up on my skills a little for a low tier event or to have some fun. However, after maining him for over a year, I got tired of him, so my ventures to play him only last for fleeting moments lol.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I still use Yoshi from time to time, either to brush up on my skills a little for a low tier event or to have some fun. However, after maining him for over a year, I got tired of him, so my ventures to play him only last for fleeting moments lol.

Et tu, Bwett?

I can't even look at you anymore.

 

[Shiri]

FEEL THAT NEW ENGLAND RAGE

DI out of Zelda upsmash is ridix hard. I've done it exactly once. I popped out halfway through and am pretty sure it was entirely luck because I have not been able to do it with Yoshi before or since. The only characters I play that can actually get out of that somewhat reliably are Kirby and Sonic. They might very well be the only characters in the game that can snake out of that thing. D:

 

[Sharky]

I'm sure jiggs can manage some sort of shenanigans out of it too lol

and ****, jile's got that rage

 

[Delta-cod]

So I recently realized that when an opponent Powershields an egg, they still take shield damage due to the explosion.

Does this always happen, or is it possible to powershield them both? If it always happens, the "Just powershield the eggs" counter is void. >_>''

 

[Shiri]

You can powershield both.

Everything comes down to hitboxes. If something has a hitbox and doesn't have any super special properties, you can powershield it, even something like an explosion that doesn't involve direct contact.

 

[Delta-cod]

What I meant was, if they powershield the actual egg and then it explodes on their powershield, does the powershield still take effect on the explosion?

Basically I was playing a WiFi match with Edge and I threw an egg at him, and he PS'd it but the explosion still gave him normal shield damage and push back.

 

[Shiri]

Oh, I see.

Well, lemme try to see if I can explain this correctly. So, a single powershield input on the controller can actually powershield multiple hitboxes as long as they all fall into a frame window of a certain length (I think it was five for Melee, I don't know what Brawl's is). If you hold your shield after a successful powershield, you'll find that soon after the powershield (once this frame window diminshes), your shield will revert to normal.

To answer your question, the single powershield input your provide can powershield both the egg and its subsequent explosion, but the second hitbox has to come in contact with the shield almost immediately, which stands little to no chance of happening in actual play, although the phenomenon of powershielding those two hits consecutively is possible.

I hope that wasn't hard to understand. D:

 

[Delta-cod]

No, that was actually what I suspected. I figured it was like the mechanic Fumi showed in that one vid where he PS'd all of Kirby's jab hits until it shield broke like, after a minute.

So basically, everyone who says "just sit there and powershield the eggs" is wrong.

 

[Scabe]

Have any of you guys seen this before? http://www.nicozon.net/player.html?video_id=sm9077844 I'm not sure if it's Dragonic Reverse but the inputs are something like:

←+Jump then immediately after that press →+Jump&Attack[A Button] And of course the other way →+Jump then immediately after that press ←+Jump&Attack[A Button]

Yes Jump&Attack must be pressed at the same time. You must be sorta fast to cancel your second jump.

Source: http://brawlfriendcodes.com/another-form-of-wavedashing-t-11154.html

 

[Sharky]

this is DR, yes.

Also, no two inputs can be made on the same frame, it won't work. It just has to be a really quick slide, thus many yoshi's using y-b-cstick for DR.

 

[bigman40]

Bigman40's Guide on Dragonic Reverse

The technique that most Yoshi players have been evading lately. When we think of this move, most Yoshi players have the idea that this is Double Jump Canceling (DJC). Others think that it's Wavedashing. This move is a mix of both; enabling Yoshi to use some of the same properties that Wavedashing gave in melee, but also limiting it's movement compared to its former look-a-like.

First off, Dragonic Reverse is NOT an easy technique that you'll have down within one day. This will actually take some amount of work to solidify the consistency needed to utilize this move. To actually make this move work, these are the only buttons that you need to press (in order):

1. Jump
2. Double Jump
3. Attack/C-stick (this does not matter on whether you do a B-air, N-air, F-air, or a U-air)

You're probably laughing at how easy it's asking you right now, aren't you? Well, you have a certain amount of frames to input these three buttons. AT MOST, you need to push those 3 buttons within 9 frames (I'll expand on that soon). Some of the people that loved Melee's tech skill will probably say that this move is nothing close to hard. Unfortunately, Dragonic Reverse has even more requirements that will choose whether this technique is a success or failure.

NOTE: All of this is starts on frame 2 AFTER pushing jump (jump on frame 1).

1a. 4 frames = (3 - jump, 4 - attack) This is the earliest you can input the buttons
1b. 6 frames = (3 - jump, 6 - attack) This is the latest you can input the buttons
2. **9 frames = (8 - jump, 9 - attack) This is a special one compared to the rest. Explanation later.

The restrictions that will not allow this technique to register correctly are listed here:
1. Pushing two jump buttons at the same time will NOT register DJ
3. Cannot push jump within 2 frames (will register as one jump)
4. On frame 7, if you input the jump then, you will not get a DJ.
5. Cannot register attack on frame 7- 9 if jump is on frame 6
6. As long as attack is done on frame 6, the jump can be inputted anywhere from frame 3-5

To get the just of what I said above, as soon as you input your initial jump, you only have 5 frames to input the last two buttons. But now, you're wondering why it can be done within 9 frames. Well, it's because Yoshi's cancel has two different looks. The first cancel keeps Yoshi completely planted onto the ground where it only happens when you input the buttons before frame 7. The second cancel actually shows the DJ rings just before he touches the ground. This can only be achieved by inputting it from what was said above (following the **).

The second cancel is quite useful if you are someone who would like to take a dare at things. Since yoshi IS in the air before he lands back onto the ground, you will have only 1 frame where you will get Heavy Armor to absorb the damage and knockback from almost any attack while you counterattack freely. This is what most of you Yoshi mainers are probably getting if you use a method such as X, X, A or Y, Y, A. The thumb is normally not fast enough to tap these buttons quickly enough, and get the DJ and attack to come 1 frame after the other without exerting some amount of energy.

Note: The differences with the first and second cancels are small, but I will still list them so you can figure out what you want to try to get.

1st cancel: You will get a slightly smaller slide compared to the 2nd cancel. You also won't get the heavy armor frame, but this method is easier to pull off given the window (at max, a 4 frame difference between pushing for a DJ and an Attack).

2nd cancel: The slide is longer than the first cancel, and you'll have 1 frame to counter your opponents if you hit the move correctly. While given these small benefits, you are given a 1 frame difference to input the DJ and Attack (DJ on frame 8 and Attack on frame 9).

If you choose to use the first cancel rather than the second cancel, understand that you WON'T get the 1 frame of heavy armor. You'll be vunerable from the start to the moment you touch the ground (that's a total of about 9 - 11 frames). So when using the first cancel, make sure that you pay attention to when you need to use it. Don't want to be getting hit by a Fsmash that you DR'ed into.

When you practice this technique, MAKE SURE that you take breaks inbetween every 5 - 10 mins of practicing. Since the inputs are soo quick, the technique will demand alot of energy. Continuing to practice without taking any breaks will not make you get any more consistent, nor will it make your thumb move any faster. A rested arm (yes, your arm can get tired from using up alot of energy to make you thumb tap that quickly) will always allow you to use this maneuver much more efficiently than an arm that's tired from attempting to force the technique for a good while.

As for incorporating the move, play with it in friendlies and find out what works best for you. Only use this tech when you have a fair amount of confidence that you'll get it when you want it to. Using it recklessly will help you learn quickly when and where the right/wrong places are when attempting to use this technique. Don't get frustrated, as it's not something that you can get down consistently within mere hours. Give it time, and you'll slowly (maybe quickly) see improvements in your Yoshi overall!

That's all for you to know! Go out there and start messing with it! Happy ing! ^_^

 

[Scabe]

I've always found DR to be so confusing. I hope I can pull this off one day. Would it help to use both X and Y to input the jumps?

 

[bigman40]

I've always found DR to be so confusing. I hope I can pull this off one day. Would it help to use both X and Y to input the jumps?

You can do that, but there has to be enough time to where you will not be pushing Y in as you're pushing in X. The reason why Y B C-stick works well is cause there's enough time to let go of Y and B to make the jumps separate.


~Mieu

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Ok egg layers, how well does Yoshi play on battlefield? good - neutral - bad?

 

[Sharky]

I used to hate yoshi on battlefield, but I've been warming up to hiim there lately. Match-up depending, of course, I'd say neutral

 

[Delta-cod]

I've been doing well on BF. I think it's a good stage for Yoshi.

 

[~Firefly~]

I used to hate yoshi on battlefield, but I've been warming up to hiim there lately. Match-up depending, of course, I'd say neutral

Same here, actually. I took a Game & Watch there yesterday, and the platforms really helped my camping game by limiting his approach options on me, especially his Dair. It can be really good against some characters you can force to approach you, but other characters do better there than Yoshi, so it really depends.

 

[Poltergust]

Battlefield can be good or bad depending on the match-up. It's a really good stage for characters like Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers, but I certainly would not like to fight there against Meta Knight, Snake, or Marth.

 

[Shiri]

I like fighting Snake there, but nobody else I know that plays Yoshi does. D:

Yeah, definitely not fighting Meta Knight there, though.

Now, I like to take Dedede there, even though I'm 0-2 against Alby on that stage. It's usually really close, but I always screw up a really important lead and just can't catch up for the rest of the match. o_0 Maybe I should find another stage, but Smashville is homo. >___>

Pictochat, prz.

 

[Delta-cod]

I like fighting Snake there, but nobody else I know that plays Yoshi does. D:

Yeah, definitely not fighting Meta Knight there, though.

Now, I like to take Dedede there, even though I'm 0-2 against Alby on that stage. It's usually really close, but I always screw up a really important lead and just can't catch up for the rest of the match. o_0 Maybe I should find another stage, but Smashville is homo. >___>

Pictochat, prz.

Never take a MK to BF. Ever. I got ***** there. It's my first strike against them now.

 

[sirchadakiss18]

Im a 1000% sure you OG Yoshis know that you can cancel Yoshi's DJ with a B move, but have y'all ever took the time to count his DJ Egg lay fakeout as tech? (You all probably did >_> )

When I do the DJ fakeout Egg lay (thats what I call it >_> ) I psych my opponent out by Full jumping looking like I am going to jump above or at him/her thats when the opponent puts up a shield so they can setup for a Sheildgrab, thats when I DJ and press B at the exact same time, its so cool cause it gives a Fast Falling effect to the Egg lay and really catches the opponent offguard @_@

At average I land like 10-13 E.L per game if I spam it xD

Also If I space it really well and the tongue's hitbox barely grabs the opponent and drags him to you but you don't crap him out as an Egg (lolol) It's a glitch I think, it just pulls the opponent to you, I combo with this, sometimes I land a Yoshi bomb or a Dsmash, I wish instead of it happening at random times only if you space the E.L that instead you can input a command to cancel the Egg Lay and just drag your opponent to you like Scorpion from Mortal Kombat XD

GET OVER HERE!! xD

Oh and wavebouncing and Changing Yoshi's air momentum using Egg lay could be the sexiest thing ever discovered, props.


And Yoshi is God-tier of Air Camping, that is all.

 

[Talazala]

I have two questions:

1. Wavebouncing, Yoshi does this when he jumps in one direction, but then goes in the opposite direction after using his eggtoss. Right?
I've done this a few times before out of luck, but I'm not sure what I was actually pressing at the moment. What has to be done to wavebounce with eggtoss?

2. I also remember there was a thread on gamecube controller button setups for Yoshi. I can't find it though. Help me

 

[Poltergust]

Im a 1000% sure you OG Yoshis know that you can cancel Yoshi's DJ with a B move, but have y'all ever took the time to count his DJ Egg lay fakeout as tech? (You all probably did >_> )

When I do the DJ fakeout Egg lay (thats what I call it >_> ) I psych my opponent out by Full jumping looking like I am going to jump above or at him/her thats when the opponent puts up a shield so they can setup for a Sheildgrab, thats when I DJ and press B at the exact same time, its so cool cause it gives a Fast Falling effect to the Egg lay and really catches the opponent offguard @_@

It would be a good mindgame tactic, but I wouldn't use it often. If you are jumping over your opponent they can easily jump OoS to punish you. You may get away with this a few times a match, but then it can get predicted by your opponent.

You could intentionally condition your opponent with this, though. Hm...

Also If I space it really well and the tongue's hitbox barely grabs the opponent and drags him to you but you don't crap him out as an Egg (lolol) It's a glitch I think, it just pulls the opponent to you, I combo with this, sometimes I land a Yoshi bomb or a Dsmash, I wish instead of it happening at random times only if you space the E.L that instead you can input a command to cancel the Egg Lay and just drag your opponent to you like Scorpion from Mortal Kombat XD

We know. You have to capture your opponent within a specific frame, and they will break out automatically. You get a huge frame advantage from this; enough to do a f-smash, even.

I have two questions:

1. Wavebouncing, Yoshi does this when he jumps in one direction, but then goes in the opposite direction after using his eggtoss. Right?
I've done this a few times before out of luck, but I'm not sure what I was actually pressing at the moment. What has to be done to wavebounce with eggtoss?

In order to wavebounce, you need to be going in one direction, do a special move, then immediately press in the other direction. Your momentum will carry over into the other direction. For Yoshi, this is extremely apparent with Egg Toss, but this also applies to his Egg Lay.

2. I also remember there was a thread on gamecube controller button setups for Yoshi. I can't find it though. Help me

I believe you may be talking about this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256098

 

[Delta-cod]

The Egg lay thing is Double Jump Canceled Egg Lay. Very useful. You don't even have to be above the person to trick them with it. Just minor conditioning with Bair pressure and you can jump at them backwards and DJC to Egg Lay them. You might not even have to DJC and just fall it towards them.

 

[Sharky]

I have two questions:

1. Wavebouncing, Yoshi does this when he jumps in one direction, but then goes in the opposite direction after using his eggtoss. Right?
I've done this a few times before out of luck, but I'm not sure what I was actually pressing at the moment. What has to be done to wavebounce with eggtoss?

yes, but bear in mind there are two types: wavebounce changing the direction yoshi's facing and wavebounce keeping him facing the same way (both with egg toss)

 

[Talazala]

Thanks, that's not the thread I was looking for, but after seeing that, I suppose I'll just make my own set up.
See, right now I'm trying to pick up DR. I tried using L as my second Jump button, but I can't press it with precision. All I get most of the time is is Shorthopped nair. I think it's the L button that isn't quick enough, so I was thinking of switching things up.
The wavebounce stuff helped a lot though.

So, the two different wavebounces are different in that the eggtoss starts in a different direction? K, thanks.

 

[PZ]

What are all yoshi's approaches i noticed i have problems approaching and using DR?(1 of the only techs i can possibly use) pls note: i use wiimote so that shortens alot of stuff i could do

 

[Shiri]

Yoshi's staple approach is back air.

Depending on your opponent's habits and your playstyle, you can come up with any number of alternate approaches that suit the situation you're in; there is no real concrete list.

To further blur the proverbial line, one of DR's strengths is that it can essential become its own mobile approach, allowing you to move forward and reposition yourself to use moves that you otherwise could not use in those same situations without it.

 

[PZ]

ok depending on the chatacter got it

 

[-Cross-]

So when I try to shield grab with Yoshi, I suffer both shield drop lag AND grab start up lag? Is this why I only want to pivot grab?

 

[Shiri]

No characters undergo shield dropping when shield grabbing.

That's why shield grabbing is such a dangerous technique; characters instantly switch from defense to unblockable offense into mostly guaranteed followup damage.

 

[Airborne]

Josh, i know EXACTLY what thread you're talking about; It's probably the only useful thread that I've made on this board:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218961

Btw, shiri, are you still working on Project Y.O.S.H.I.? If not, I'm going to revive "Unleashing the Egg" now that I actually am learning a LOT about yoshi.

Edit: I know you all love DJC Egglay, as do I, but I think wavebounced Egglay is by far more useful, as it allows us to be more tricky in the air by allowing us to completely flip our aerial momentum and mixup our landing, without even wasting our double jump. Besides, who needs heavy armor when you have GRAB armor?

 

[Shiri]

I still need more solid data before I can start working on it.

 

[Talazala]

Oh yeah, that's the thread I was looking for Airborne. Thanks!
I'm going to have to ask again, how do you wavebounce Egglay? Do you quickly input the opposite direction and then neutralB?
And Yoshi's DACUS, is it like Snakes, just with different timing?