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The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

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Tenki

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@choknater
..of .. course.

I see a pattern here. People whose debating skills are minimal, who ad hominems and strawmans people in almost every post they make and who often cannot comprehend plain English often claim I do all of these things.
Is it hypocrisy or just ignorance?
It's not knowing how to debate/form arguments well.

But you should be able to recognize that those little things you throw here and there will, regardless of their truth/falsity, incite more flames, but not about an argument on Metaknight, but against you, and despite the slight off-topic moment, I'd like to keep this thread about Metaknight.

Master Raven said:
Ya know, I'm getting tired of the really obnoxious "QFT" posts
QFT + .

I'm going to step away before this derails further.



edit:
Okay, now that we've cleared up that the debate vs opinion matchup is about
60:40


NEW TOPIC!


Daily character discussion #1:
Metaknight!


eh has a sword, tornado, and doesnt afraid of anything.
 

~ Gheb ~

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It called debating. I bring them up to refute arguments. And people usually are unable to refute my facts. But they persist in using their, now, refuted arguments. Now who's the bad guy? The guy who was right or the guy pretending no one proved him wrong?
The bad guy? Idc. It's just...ridicoulus. You say they can't prove their claims about MK being "too good". They say something. You say that's no proof. They say something else. You say it again: it's no proof.

I wouldn't call it debating. You just keep telling them, that they have no proof. And they don't. It's a fact...
 

MorphedChaos

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MK is cool because hes MK.

MK isn't cool since he breaks the game. (I prefer the non-smash MK to the smash MK for this very reason.)

What is the matchup with MK/GaW now? I just guessed at 7:3.
 

Yuna

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But you should be able to recognize that those little things you throw here and there will, regardless of their truth/falsity, incite more flames, but not about an argument on Metaknight, but against you, and despite the slight off-topic moment, I'd like to keep this thread about Metaknight.
I'll try to keep the personal observations about my "opponents'" inadequacies in debating and in life to a minimal from now on.

The bad guy? Idc. It's just...ridicoulus. You say they can't prove their claims about MK being "too good". They say something. You say that's no proof. They say something else. You say it again: it's no proof.

I wouldn't call it debating. You just keep telling them, that they have no proof. And they don't. It's a fact...
I always elaborate on why it's not evidence but merely circumstantial, conjecture, speculation or whatever. Sometimes I don't after I've already said it enough times. Most people do not know what the words "proof" and "evidence" mean. Most of the "evidence" people throw at us are easily explained away by other things. We have yet to see conclusive proof that Meta Knight is "too good" by the definition of "when, no or at least a very small select few, characters stand a reasonable chance of beating Meta Knight".

You can debate what constitutes "reasonable". You can debate that maybe our perceptions of his match-ups are wrong. But people don't. Instead they elect to use stuff like "He has no bad match-ups" and "He has the best recovery in the game". The 1st doesn't prove he's "too good" since "no bad match-ups" could pretty much mean "all 50-50s" and the 2nd doesn't even put his recovery in comparison to the others'. He might as well just have a recovery a smidgen better than everybody else's and who cares if it's the best if it doesn't make him "too good"?

People keep trying to step-by-step prove that he's simply "the best" instead of "too good". We already know he's "the best". No one is denying that!

That's the thing, most people choose to strawman their way in this argument by simply proving that he's just really, really good, the best, better than the others. They have to prove that he's "too good", not that he's just the best, better than the others, the best, whatever.

But since they can't (or just won't), they try to prove other things, thus I refute them. Instead of revising their argument, they just attack me when I'm perfectly right in declaring their arguments bogus or irrelevant.
 

choknater

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NNID
choknater
LMAO!

"debate vs opinion

60:40"

too good

hahahahah

anyways, back to Metaknight.

here's to start off some discussion:

He should not be banned.
 

da K.I.D.

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Once he uses them in a tournament, they're no longer secrets. Not randomly revealing your discoveries on Smashboards isn't keeping it a secret or hoarding it or "hiding" it. In fact, most people do this. Why would you reveal your latest strategies as X-character without first testing it in a tournament setting?

Why reveal your new possible trumph card? Once you do use it in a tournament, it becomes public knowledge. Just because you don't get wind of it because you don't actually read up on the latest in the Brawl metagame doesn't mean M2K has supressed the knowledge.

Once he does something in the presence of others who write about it on Smashboards, it becomes public knowledge.

Oh wait, Deja Vu. I already said this.
i didnt say he doesnt do it in tourneys, i said he does simple minute things that people dont catch on to, and doesnt let people record him so they dont get the chance to catch up on them later. also, if i have to deal with your lame piss poor, arguementitive, petty name calling style, than you have to deal with the way i respond to your posts, i even put it in a lighter shade cus you said it was too dark. and if you say you dont have to deal but i do, thats just another example you being a stuck up arrogant prick

huh deja vu, maybe because I ALREADY SAID THIS TOO.
 

Yuna

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~ Gheb ~

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OK, Yuna, so your definition of too good is, if none of his opponents had a "reasonable" chance to win. As far as I remember a 40:60 disadvantage is also resonable to you, is that correct?

But why do ppl have a reasonable chance to win with a 40:60 disadvantage? I think that's too much ... a question of your definition. When is a match-up 40:60 for or against a certain character? He has a disadvantage but still reasonable chances to win? Could you please explain closer, how this is supposed to be possible?
 

Yuna

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i didnt say he doesnt do it in tourneys, i said he does simple minute things that people dont catch on to
What magical minute things that make Meta Knight so broken does M2K do that people don't catch onto?! If he does it all the time, how come no one catches them?! And if no one catches them, how could you possibly know he does them at all?!

and doesnt let people record him so they dont get the chance to catch up on them later.
You base this on what? I seem to recall tons of matches featuring M2K. As if M2K just goes "No, you cannot record your little final sets with me in them because I don't feel like it!" and people just randomly comply! Where's your evidence he does this and where's your evidence people actually let him do it?

also, if i have to deal with your lame piss poor, arguementitive, petty name calling style, than you have to deal with the way i respond to your posts, i even put it in a lighter shade cus you said it was too dark.
I specifically asked you to stop doing it if you wanted a reply. It's not like it's easier for you to do it than to just multi-quote, it actually requires you to do more work than multi-quoting. And people tons more credible than you both when it comes to Smash knowledge and debate have all corroborated that my style is not any of what you claimed it was.

and if you say you dont have to deal but i do, thats just another example you being a stuck up arrogant prick
Wait, what? When did I ever say that I don't have to deal with your argumentation style but you have to deal (with the exact same style)? Or that you have to deal with me replying to your with different colored text in the quote while I don't?

Because those are the only two things you could possibly be accusing me of. And I see absolutely no logic in that since I've never said anything remotely like it.
 

da K.I.D.

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We have yet to see conclusive proof that Meta Knight is "too good" by the definition of "when, no or at least a very small select few, characters stand a reasonable chance of beating Meta Knight".

You can debate what constitutes "reasonable". You can debate that maybe our perceptions of his match-ups are wrong. But people don't. Instead they elect to use stuff like "He has no bad match-ups" and "He has the best recovery in the game"..
because your def. of too good is different than other peoples,
personally i say that if he even has a 55-45 match with everybody else to the point that MK is always expected to win (as he is right now) than he should be banned. you think differently. that DOES NOT MAKE ME WRONG thats the part you forget to ge t through that think head of yours.
 

worldjem7

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Your own friggin' words.

In what alternate universe is that "not once mentioning his smash moves"?
Alright, I'll give you that. That was my fault. I made a mistake. I'm not afraid to admit I made one. I'm human like the rest of you.

At that point I was mostly referring to his d-smash. I know I didn't specify. U-smash we all know is pretty bad and F-smash is half-decent only because it has very little cooldown lag.

It's quick, firm, and spammable. If it's fresh it can kill at 120+. It's not the most powerful smash in the game but, it does get the job done.

Just out of curiosity, though, who would have better smashes than MK?

I never said you said all moves. I never even implied it. Pray tell, where did I say anything that implies that I skipped any part of your post or was implying that you think all moves get nullified by the 'Nado?
This part right here was implying that I meant that the tornado beat all:

It's not like there are a slew of moves that go through it (despite your insinuation otherwise). It's not like projectiles actually hit him during it depending on the projectile and other things.
Why would you tell me that some moves beat (or help combat) the tornado if you know that I already know that some things can beat the tornado (regardless of how many).

It's so ridiculous when someone doesn't pay attention to detail and argumentation claims that I don't when his undoing is staring him right in the face in his own posts. I mean, claiming I just BS:ed my way through a post, ignored stuff he said and claimed he said things he never said and then he turns around and does all that.

I mean, it's so funny I feel like lol:ing in real life.
... You paid attention to a single word... and left the rest of my post out to dry...


My point still stands: All you did was nit-pick my post for the tornado. You only looked at the first quote box and only discussed the parts where I mention the tornado.

And then when I make a mistake, you go to all ends to point it out to everyone and try to make me look like a fool. You seem very desperate to win an argument, any argument, because people aren't being convinced by your arguments. If your arguments are that great and hold that much validity then why aren't more people agreeing with you?
 

brinboy789

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because your def. of too good is different than other peoples,
personally i say that if he even has a 55-45 match with everybody else to the point that MK is always expected to win (as he is right now) than he should be banned. you think differently. that DOES NOT MAKE ME WRONG thats the part you forget to ge t through that think head of yours.
didnt somebody say that yun from whatever game was in same situation as MK? why didnt she get banned? she didnt have bad matchups

or so i heard. i never heard of yun or any game she was in for that matter but thats what i read
 

Yuna

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OK, Yuna, so your definition of too good is, if none of his opponents had a "reasonable" chance to win. As far as I remember a 40:60 disadvantage is also resonable to you, is that correct?
Meta Knight still has many matchups that are arguably 45:55s and 50:40s (don't ask me to do the math on that one). They are not yet all 60:40s. When they are, come back to me with that.

I said that if all he has is 60:40s, then maybe his advantage is just "too much" and that maybe I'd have to reconsider. But we'll burn that bridge once we get there.

mhunt pelipopBut why do ppl have a reasonable chance to win with a 40:60 disadvantage?[/quote]
Because 40:60 is still a reasonable matchup. Several characters win 40:60s all the time at levels of equal skill. The chances of winning are still reasonable (IMO). Of course, this is subjective and not everyone will agree with me and I have never debated anyone that they're wrong for disagreeing with me on this.

I think that's too much ... a question of your definition. When is a match-up 40:60 for or against a certain character?
A match-up is 60:40 when it is. I can't possibly give you a single one-size-fits-all answer to this.

He has a disadvantage but still reasonable chances to win?
A match-up is 60:40 when it is. When X character has such an advantage so big/small that it's simply a 60:40 and not a 50:40 or a 70:30. How we arrive these ratios depend entirely on the match-up. Such minute changes as "X attack now does 14% instead of 15%" could very well shift the matchup by 5 or 10 points. There is no magic answer.

because your def. of too good is different than other peoples,
personally i say that if he even has a 55-45 match with everybody else to the point that MK is always expected to win (as he is right now) than he should be banned. you think differently. that DOES NOT MAKE ME WRONG thats the part you forget to ge t through that think head of yours.
You have never once argued my definition of "too good", you've just argued that your arguments support that he's "too good", when I've clearly laid down my definition of "too good".

Also, "my" definition is the definition of every other fighting game community in existence. Yun, X and countless others suffer zero disadvantageous match-ups. They are not banned. Heck, people don't even ***** them in their respective games because their communities are just, I don't know, more mature or something.

It's not my definition, it's a historically consistent definition set forth by over a generation of Competitive fighting game players. It's just that the Smash Community consits of mainly people who have never played another game Competitively in their entire life and now that we for the first time are staring down a character with only advantageous match-ups, we're panicking and thinking that that alone makes him good enough to ban.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Meta Knight still has many matchups that are arguably 45:55s and 50:40s (don't ask me to do the math on that one). They are not yet all 60:40s. When they are, come back to me with that.

I said that if all he has is 60:40s, then maybe his advantage is just "too much" and that maybe I'd have to reconsider. But we'll burn that bridge once we get there.
So if MK had 60:40 vs everyone, would he be worth banning, despite all (or many) characters having reasonable chances to beat him? Where's the border line here?
 

da K.I.D.

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What magical minute things that make Meta Knight so broken does M2K do that people don't catch onto?! If he does it all the time, how come no one catches them?! And if no one catches them, how could you possibly know he does them at all?!

read hylians thread. up b through back air, people might think that that was a fluke and thus dont notice that a combo of M2Ks strats with MKs brokeness is beating them. you act like im wrong but if i was than somebody would have documented those M2K strats before now


You base this on what? I seem to recall tons of matches featuring M2K. As if M2K just goes "No, you cannot record your little final sets with me in them because I don't feel like it!" and people just randomly comply! Where's your evidence he does this and where's your evidence people actually let him do it?

its highly known that people respect M2Ks right to privacy, he does live in america after all. tons of people know that M2K doesnt let people record him in important matches, where the hell have you been?

I specifically asked you to stop doing it if you wanted a reply. It's not like it's easier for you to do it than to just multi-quote, it actually requires you to do more work than multi-quoting. And people tons more credible than you both when it comes to Smash knowledge and debate have all corroborated that my style is not any of what you claimed it was.
actually, doing it like this is easier for me, and salaboB along with notable others have said that your style is what i describe, the post im replying to RIGHT NOW is a smokescreen arguement

Wait, what? When did I ever say that I don't have to deal with your argumentation style but you have to deal (with the exact same style)? Or that you have to deal with me replying to your with different colored text in the quote while I don't?

im asking you if you are saying that i have to deal with your debate "style"

and if i do you have to deal with my method of responce as it is the easiest for me torespond to you in a timely matter. for i fear that if i dont you will completely disregard my arguements, as you have done in the past


Because those are the only two things you could possibly be accusing me of. And I see absolutely no logic in that since I've never said anything remotely like it.
once again, read the quote completely and TRY to understand it before you fly off the handle with accusations
 

S.B.Soldier

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Hmm, its a very perplexing situation. The only weakness of metaknight is his range, which can easily be taken advantage of. However, like I have said in earlier posts, those who are good with him... no... very good with him, can even utilize the range he does have. One of the hardest aspects of metaknight is his off stage battling... it seems almost impossible to play against him offensively. I main as a marth, for instance, and seem to be totally reliant on my quick ranged attacks. Almost too dependant I'd say.
 

Ace55

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How about we stop with this Yuna against the world flamewar and try to disprove him with arguments?

One of the base arguments of Yuna is that other characters in other fighting games have also had MK like machups, yet they were never banned.

One of the posts a while back, don't recall who made it, talked about how matchups work out differently when you compare Brawl to other fighters (and Melee) because of the lack of punishment. Leaving the bad matchup character with a lot less opportunity to make up for the matchup. So the point would be that a 40-60 matchup in brawl would actually be worse than a 40-60 matchup in let's say melee.

I'm not sure if I agree with this because I would hope the matchups take all the above into consideration (which is probably why there are so many **** matchups in brawl). On the other hand IIRC captain Falcon in Melee had 40-60 matchups against most the top tiers yet he was able to do fairly well. The only brawl character I can think of that has relatively bad matchups in the top yet does amazingly well is Wario (and he might just be underated). So perhaps there is indeed a difference?

Hmm, its a very perplexing situation. The only weakness of metaknight is his range, which can easily be taken advantage of.
Since when is having better range than Marth a weakness?
 

Yuna

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Alright, I'll give you that. That was my fault. I made a mistake. I'm not afraid to admit I made one. I'm human like the rest of you.

At that point I was mostly referring to his d-smash. I know I didn't specify. U-smash we all know is pretty bad and F-smash is half-decent only because it has very little cooldown lag.
You said he has the best smashes in the entire game. No amount of backpedaling can save you unless you somehow managed to think "smashes" is singularis. And his Dsmash isn't even the best Dsmash in the game. There are Dsmashes around equally strong that are semi-spikes.

And then you failed to even double check yourself to see to it that you hadn't made a mistake and claimed I've verbally violated you or something.

It's quick, firm, and spammable. If it's fresh it can kill at 120+. It's not the most powerful smash in the game but, it does get the job done.
But it's not the best Dsmash in the game. Yet you claimed it was. You are still wrong.

Just out of curiosity, though, who would have better smashes than MK?
Oh, Pikachu, Robot and Fox come to mind.

This part right here was implying that I meant that the tornado beat all:
No it's not. It's a rebuttal to your claim that it beats almost all moves. Anyone who had read your post (which I clearly quoted right above my rebuttal) would've known that I was refuting that claim, not implying that you were ever implied the 'Nado beats all moves in the game.

Why would you tell me that some moves beat (or help combat) the tornado if you know that I already know that some things can beat the tornado (regardless of how many).
Because you specifically used the word "almost"?

... You paid attention to a single word... and left the rest of my post out to dry...
No I didn't. I replied to every single part of it. A part of your post claimed the 'Nado beat almost all moves and then went on to describe how good it is.

I replied to this by pointing out how it's not the kind of über-move you and others seem to believe it is. I simoultaneously refuted two of your points; that it beats out almost all moves and that it's really, really, really good.

And I still managed to address everything else in your post.

My point still stands: All you did was nit-pick my post for the tornado. You only looked at the first quote box and only discussed the parts where I mention the tornado.
Because your main argument was the tornado. I still managed to reply to everything else.

And then when I make a mistake, you go to all ends to point it out to everyone and try to make me look like a fool.
Because you didn't own up to it.

You seem very desperate to win an argument, any argument, because people aren't being convinced by your arguments. If your arguments are that great and hold that much validity then why aren't more people agreeing with you?
I replied to everything you said. What was I to do besides that? Invent things you said and reply to it?

Still, if MK is now finding ways to make his 50:50s and his 55:45s to 60:40 and 70:30, something is wrong here.
Big words, now elaborate. How is he managing to do this?

So if MK had 60:40 vs everyone, would he be worth banning, despite all (or many) characters having reasonable chances to beat him? Where's the border line here?
If it happens, we'll talk. There is no black and white. Everything is relevant.

once again, read the quote completely and TRY to understand it before you fly off the handle with accusations
Again you do what I've asked you repeatedly not to do. I'm not even bothering reading that. Why you'd do that when it requires you to do more work than simple multi-quoting is beyond me.

Hmm, its a very perplexing situation. The only weakness of metaknight is his range, which can easily be taken advantage of.
No it's not. It's not even a weakness of his.
 

brinboy789

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How about we stop with this Yuna against the world flamewar and try to disprove him with arguments?

One of the base arguments of Yuna is that other characters in other fighting games have also had MK like machups, yet they were never banned.

One of the posts a while back, don't recall who made it, talked about how matchups work out differently when you compare Brawl to other fighters (and Melee) because of the lack of punishment. Leaving the bad matchup character with a lot less opportunity to make up for the matchup. So the point would be that a 40-60 matchup in brawl would actually be worse than a 40-60 matchup in let's say melee.

I'm not sure if I agree with this because I would hope the matchups take all the above into consideration (which is probably why there are so many **** matchups in brawl). On the other hand IIRC captain Falcon in Melee had 40-60 matchups against most the top tiers yet he was able to do fairly well. The only brawl character I can think of that has relatively bad matchups in the top yet does amazingly well is Wario (and he might just be underated). So perhaps there is indeed a difference?



Since when is having better range than Marth a weakness?
in a sense its different but it all comes down to the same thing. they both dont have bad matchups, but MK has mroe neutral matchups, so MK is better?
 

Yuna

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One of the posts a while back, don't recall who made it, talked about how matchups work out differently when you compare Brawl to other fighters (and Melee) because of the lack of punishment. Leaving the bad matchup character with a lot less opportunity to make up for the matchup. So the point would be that a 40-60 matchup in brawl would actually be worse than a 40-60 matchup in let's say melee.
This is a faulty argument. Of course the lack of punishment was taken into account when the match-ups were written.

Of course Brawl is different from other games. So when our match-up ratios are written, they're written according to how Brawl works. If Meta Knight can punish people ten times more than they can punish him, then that match-up will be a good match-up for him, not some kind of 55:45 or 60-40, it'll be at least a 70-30 or 80-20. Because the opponent wouldn't be able to do much against Meta Knight.

It's all taken into account. On the highest possible level, playing at the highest possible human level, taking into account human mistakes, human skill barriers and human reaction time, what would a theoretical match-up look like?

A Marth vs. Meta Knight match, what are the odds of Marth winning vs. Meta Knight winning everything taken into consideration?

The only reason why most characters who get 40:60ed by Meta Knight aren't doing better is human laziness. People aren't bothering to develop their metagame against Meta Knight. The best either quit or switch characters to characters with better match-ups. That or people just whine and try to get him banned.

It wouldn't be a 40:60 if they didn't stand a 40:60 chance at victory.

if you're fooled into thinking yuna looks like a girl, you've already got other things you need to question yourself about.
Keep telling yourself that.
 

da K.I.D.

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You have never once argued my definition of "too good", you've just argued that your arguments support that he's "too good", when I've clearly laid down my definition of "too good".

which is way too stringent of a definition

Also, "my" definition is the definition of every other fighting game community in existence. Yun, X and countless others suffer zero disadvantageous match-ups. They are not banned. Heck, people don't even ***** them in their respective games because their communities are just, I don't know, more mature or something.

thats not necessarily true, keep reading

It's not my definition, it's a historically consistent definition set forth by over a generation of Competitive fighting game players. It's just that the Smash Community consits of mainly people who have never played another game Competitively in their entire life and now that we for the first time are staring down a character with only advantageous match-ups, we're panicking and thinking that that alone makes him good enough to ban.
I WANT SOURCES, YOU ARE QUOTING INVISIBLE PEOPLE, PROVE THIS STATEMENT. ALL OF IT
it is in street fighter 3

yun had advantages over everyone except Ken (arguably).
Not banned though.
ken supposedly went even with him, thus the no ban, nobody goes even with MK and we have the added bonus of 3 of the top 3 and 5 of the top 8 at our biggest tourney playing him. thus the ban. i dont think yun had those kind of numbers behind him, and if he did, I WANT MULTIPLE SOURCES

EDIT: ive continually asked you to tone down the attitude, and until you do, you will continue to get colored in the quote responces from me, in addition to the fact that,
ITS EASIER FOR ME TO DO IT THAT WAY
 

brinboy789

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I WANT SOURCES, YOU ARE QUOTING INVISIBLE PEOPLE, PROVE THIS STATEMENT. ALL OF IT

ken supposedly went even with him, thus the no ban, nobody goes even with MK and we have the added bonus of 3 of the top 3 and 5 of the top 8 at our biggest tourney playing him. thus the ban. i dont think yun had those kind of numbers behind him, and if he did, I WANT MULTIPLE SOURCES

EDIT: ive continually asked you to tone down the attitude, and until you do, you will continue to get colored in the quote responces from me, in addition to the fact that,
ITS EASIER FOR ME TO DO IT THAT WAY
4 people go even with MK, not counting himself...
 

Yuna

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I WANT SOURCES, YOU ARE QUOTING INVISIBLE PEOPLE, PROVE THIS STATEMENT. ALL OF IT
You want sources of my definition? How about Yun, X and other characters with no even match-ups, yet they were never banned?!

ken supposedly went even with him, thus the no ban, nobody goes even with MK and we have the added bonus of 3 of the top 3 and 5 of the top 8 at our biggest tourney playing him. thus the ban. i dont think yun had those kind of numbers behind him, and if he did, I WANT MULTIPLE SOURCES
45:55 is neutral/even (Snake)! Also, Ken is arguable. So the game revolved around Ken and Yun, which was much better than just Meta Knight?

Also, stop bringing HOBO11 up. Azen himself walked in here and explained what happened at Hobo11. Azen did better as MK against one single player, Dojo. Against everyone else, his MK did worse. He played many more characters than just MK. Clinging to that one set he played as MK is just a desperate attempt at clamoring for straws.

I've turned down the attitude. I'm being nice. I'm not even remotely coming close to calling you names, I'm just bolding letters for emphasis and enunciation since you cannot hear that on message boards.

It's not insulting, it's emphasis. I do that a lot in real life speech, thus I also do it in writing.
 

Cirno

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
203
Location
Gensokyo
If your arguments are that great and hold that much validity then why aren't more people agreeing with you?
We are, and we have been. If you're looking for posts or threads that do so the search feature should bring you plenty.

These debates has been going on for some time now, and a majority us have tired of it all. I'm thankful SWF has someone like Yuna who can go on, even after participating in so many debates.
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
I WANT SOURCES, YOU ARE QUOTING INVISIBLE PEOPLE, PROVE THIS STATEMENT. ALL OF IT

ken supposedly went even with him, thus the no ban, nobody goes even with MK and we have the added bonus of 3 of the top 3 and 5 of the top 8 at our biggest tourney playing him. thus the ban. i dont think yun had those kind of numbers behind him, and if he did, I WANT MULTIPLE SOURCES

EDIT: ive continually asked you to tone down the attitude, and until you do, you will continue to get colored in the quote responces from me, in addition to the fact that,
ITS EASIER FOR ME TO DO IT THAT WAY
To my knowledge Old Sagat has an advantage over everyone in SF2.

Storm, Cable, Sentinel and Magneto completely destroy everyone below them.

Even if Cable and Sentinal and magneto were gone Storm would not be banned.

its not just because Ken was arguably evenw ith Yun.
its the fact Yun did not have an 80:20 over everyone like Akuma did in SF2.

if its all 60:40 its no issue because there is no overcentralizing.

I believe Testament or Eddie in Guilty Gear do 60:40 against EVERYONE.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
If your arguments are that great and hold that much validity then why aren't more people agreeing with you?
They are and they have. Because of the amount of BS threads like these have, most people stay out of them. They've tired and stopped coming here. This has been around Smashboards for quite some time now.

Most people on "my" side have tired and left, thus so many on "your" side (I replied to this separately because it was edited into your post after I'd already replied to it).
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
You want sources of my definition? How about Yun, X and other characters with no even match-ups, yet they were never banned?!

give me sources of this,
45:55 is neutral/even (Snake)! Also, Ken is arguable. So the game revolved around Ken and Yun, which was much better than just Meta Knight?
yes two characters is better than one
Also, stop bringing HOBO11 up. Azen himself walked in here and explained what happened at Hobo11. Azen did better as MK against one single player, Dojo. Against everyone else, his MK did worse. He played many more characters than just MK. Clinging to that one set he played as MK is just a desperate attempt at clamoring for straws.
all i know is that he played mk in an important match thats why lucario/MK was next to his name in the results thread
I've turned down the attitude. I'm being nice. I'm not even remotely coming close to calling you names, I'm just bolding letters for emphasis and enunciation since you cannot hear that on message boards.
im doing a variation on the same thing
It's not insulting, it's emphasis. I do that a lot in real life speech, thus I also do it in writing.
than you dont mind if i jack your style somewhat. and youre still ignoring parts of posts
 
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