The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Inui]

Here is a MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH WHEN IT COMES TO BEATING META KNIGHT:

Pick Snake.

I'd say I will still be pro-ban if after people's best effort with the pressure counters are found (ie, Dojo's thread at this point seems to be the best shot at it) the worst MK has to face is one or two 55:45 disadvantages regardless of stage.

That's what Fox had in Melee. He wasn't banned.

 

[salaboB]

That's what Fox had in Melee. He wasn't banned.

Been over this before: Fox only had that when played at a level of skill about 3 people in the country could attain.

That's not a realistic matchup situation.

 

[Mew2King]

if you guys spent half as much time playing the game as you did posting on smashboards with johns, you would all be a lot better

 

[Mmac]

Again though, I can't really comment until I see how he plays against you... I have seen other people have larger success against MetaKnight with Yoshi, so my opinion doesn't really change...

 

[salaboB]

if you guys spent half as much time playing the game as you did posting on smashboards with johns, you would all be a lot better

You volunteering to be my opponent every time I want to play?

Yeah...playing against level 3 cpus just isn't that helpful.

 

[Mortimer]

if you guys spent half as much time playing the game as you did posting on smashboards with johns, you would all be a lot better

Just imagine where you could be if you played instead of making 3,000 posts :o

 

[ProBrawler]

if you guys spent half as much time playing the game as you did posting on smashboards with johns, you would all be a lot better

I gotta say, there's truth here. Even if I'm against MK I agree with this strongly.

Edit: Lol, I'm tired and there are so many MK threads that I thought this was the poll thread. =p Oh well, same idea.

 

[Inui]

Been over this before: Fox only had that when played at a level of skill about 3 people in the country could attain.

That's not a realistic matchup situation.

Are you kidding me? A lot of players had the technical skill to do all of Fox's crazy stuff. In fact, most tournament Fox's had crazy technical skill.

It just takes more skill to be at that level with Fox than it takes to be at that level with MK because Melee takes more skill. In turn, other characters can beat MK with things almost equally easy to learn and perform, like simple grenade camping with Snake and banana control with Diddy.

 

[salaboB]

Are you kidding me? A lot of players had the technical skill to do all of Fox's crazy stuff. In fact, most tournament Fox's had crazy technical skill.

And Marth dominated tournaments. Something in the reality of Melee isn't lining up to what you're saying.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This thread just got increased by two pages in 3 seconds. W... T.... F?

 

[Inui]

And Marth dominated tournaments. Something in the reality of Melee isn't lining up to what you're saying.

The Marth players were also on another level. Ken, Azen, and Mew2King were clearly the best and most consistent players by a large amount.

Marth also was one of two characters that beat Fox, imo. Fox's other counter was probably DK, and MAYBE Falco. Marth is to Fox what Snake is to MK.

 

[salaboB]

The Marth players were also on another level. Ken, Azen, and Mew2King were clearly the best and most consistent players by a large amount.

Marth also was one of two characters that beat Fox, imo. Fox's other counter was probably DK, and MAYBE Falco. Marth is to Fox what Snake is to MK.

Snake to MK has yet to be really demonstrated. Surely the best Snakes aren't all getting taken out by M2K.

And it's pretty bad to say Fox had no bad matchups and then say "But all the Marths winning were better" -- three massively skilled Marths were not enough to account for the number of tournaments Marth won. Others had to be doing better as Marth vs. Fox than Snake is doing vs. MetaKnight.

 

[Praxis]

Marth also was one of two characters that beat Fox, imo. Fox's other counter was probably DK, and MAYBE Falco. Marth is to Fox what Snake is to MK.

Then...why aren't the Snake players dominating the tournament scene like Marth did?

Sigh. The comparison just doesn't work.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201658

Every time someone compares Meta Knight to a character in Melee, God kills a kitten.

 

[DRaGZ]

Snake does not counter MK. All the distances Snake does well at, MK can either avoid or do better in. MK goes even with Snake on the ground. MK ***** Snake in the air. MK ***** Snake off-stage. MK can kill at a slightly lower capacity than Snake, but close enough. MK can easily gimp Snake.

Snake's got nothin' on MK.

 

[Inui]

There aren't as many good Snakes. More people need to start using him. MK is more popular because he's more fun.

Btw, a huge portion of MK's points in Ankoku's rankings comes from M2K winning major tournaments, so using that as proof that MK is too good is silly, imo.

Snake does not counter MK. All the distances Snake does well at, MK can either avoid or do better in. MK goes even with Snake on the ground. MK ***** Snake in the air. MK ***** Snake off-stage. MK can kill at a slightly lower capacity than Snake, but close enough. MK can easily gimp Snake.

Snake's got nothin' on MK.

LMAO

Yeah, so me going nearly even with M2K's MK, G-reg consistently beating Forte, me beating Shadow consistently with Snake, M2K destroying Chillin's MK in tourny, etc. is all nonsense and MK actually wins.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i thought i killed these rediculous comparisons to melee.

you cant say MK is like fox because fox didnt win everything
you cant say MK is like marth because marth had bad stages
you cant say MK is like shiek for the same reason as fox
these comparisons dont work and people need to stop using faulty logic

the only comparison that would be valid is if you say MK is like fox, marth, and shiek put together. he wins just as much as marth, hes as advantaged as fox, and hes easier to use than shiek...

and for the record, if there was a character, that had those properties of those 3 things at teh same time, guess what?

that character would have been banned

 

[da K.I.D.]

but if snake was still that good, hed be higher in ankokus list right?

stop trying to make the rankings subjective, you are trying to transform what is in those tourney rankings, into something that you can use to bolster your argument

if snake can still beat MK, why does MK still have 3 times the number of tourney points that snake does?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Because M2K goes to WAYYYY too many tournaments. XD

 

[Inui]

i thought i killed these rediculous comparisons to melee.

Obviously not.

you cant say MK is like fox because fox didnt win everything
you cant say MK is like marth because marth had bad stages
you cant say MK is like shiek for the same reason as fox
these comparisons dont work and people need to stop using faulty logic

MK doesn't win everything. In fact, he barely wins over here with the exceptions of two extremely dominant players that could win with other characters anyways.

MK isn't that good at FD and suffers tremendously against characters like Snake, DK, and Olimar on Halberd due to the very low ceiling and the stage hazzards killing MK at low damage. He also has grab-release stuff that destroys him on large stages from Yoshi, Bowser, and especially Sheik.

if snake can still beat MK, why does MK still have 3 times the number of tourney points that snake does?

Mew2King wins massive tournaments that give MK a huge amount of points every time. teh_spamerer is very dominant in NJ.

 

[BentoBox]

Sigh, tier lists do nothing but generate confusion it seems x_x

 

[-Mars-]

Sigh, tier lists do nothing but generate confusion it seems x_x

psssh even without a tier list, i'm pretty sure all of this would still be taking place, it doesn't take a tier list to realize you keep being ***** by players not even close to your skill.

 

[Inui]

What are you talking about?

I have never lost to a bad Meta Knight even when I mained Marth, and that's supposed to be Marth's worst match. In fact, I occassionaly beat superior players that used Meta Knight.

 

[-Mars-]

What are you talking about?

I have never lost to a bad Meta Knight even when I mained Marth, and that's supposed to be Marth's worst match. In fact, I occassionaly beat superior players that used Meta Knight.

What players?

 

[Inui]

What players?

dmbrandon twice in his prime before he quit, and I took matches consistently.

teh_spamerer once, and I took matches consistently.

This was with Marth against two MK players ranked over me in my region.

I beat every other random MK pretty easily.

I never lost to a bad MK regardless of the character I used. I only lost to the top ones from the beginning.

MKs that have beaten me:
-dmbrandon (a long time ago; he'd probably lose consistently now)
-teh_spamerer
-Mew2King
-Plank
-Forte

I never played Omni. I consistently beat Shadow.

So...I lost to pretty much the BEST MKs in the country and that's it, and this is with Marth/Snake/Pit.

I guess that's why I'm not as butt-hurt as a lot of the pro-ban group. I always destroyed the bad MKs and never experienced this "oh my god i lost to some scrub MK who im wayyyy better than" nonsense.

 

[DRaGZ]

There aren't as many good Snakes. More people need to start using him. MK is more popular because he's more fun.

Btw, a huge portion of MK's points in Ankoku's rankings comes from M2K winning major tournaments, so using that as proof that MK is too good is silly, imo.



LMAO

Yeah, so me going nearly even with M2K's MK, G-reg consistently beating Forte, me beating Shadow consistently with Snake, M2K destroying Chillin's MK in tourny, etc. is all nonsense and MK actually wins.

Okay first off, you're claiming that a large percentage of MK wins come from M2K wins. You combine this by saying that there aren't even that many MKs where you are, fine.

So the end result is MK, despite not being that proliferated, gets a lot of wins because of M2K. Okay, fine. Let's take these to be truths.

Then you also claim that Snake can consistently beat MK and is thus a counter/soft counter. Whatevs, for the sake of argument, I'll say "soft-counter" and take it to be true.

This means that Snake actually can beat MK relatively consistently + we know that Snake does very well against lots and lots of characters.

Then you say that Snakes don't dominate because there aren't that many good Snakes, although there are plenty of good Snakes, more than enough and definitely in regions where M2K isn't. Whatevs, let's also take this to be true.

Then by your previous assertion that just a small amount of MKs can skew the percentages that much should also mean that a small amount of Snakes (which apparently beat MKs + do extremely well against the majority of the cast) should also be skewing the numbers, at least to a comparable level that MK is doing. The number of good Snakes available shouldn't be relevant because you yourself claim that the entire MK percentage is skewed by M2K alone and there are good Snakes in regions without M2K affecting their placings there.

Something isn't adding up, because this obviously is not the case, and this is based entirely on things you have said. Your argument is taking itself apart.

 

[BentoBox]

psssh even without a tier list, i'm pretty sure all of this would still be taking place, it doesn't take a tier list to realize you keep being ***** by players not even close to your skill.

Are you talking by experience or simply repeating what everyone wants to believe?

Because its getting old.

@Dragz: Metagames evolve and progress. Not everything is set in stone from the moment a few players gain notorious-ity across the country. That's why people are pushing to let it flesh itself out before making radical moves.

 

[-Mars-]

dmbrandon twice in his prime before he quit, and I took matches consistently.

teh_spamerer once, and I took matches consistently.

This was with Marth against two MK players ranked over me in my region.

I beat every other random MK pretty easily.

I never lost to a bad MK regardless of the character I used. I only lost to the top ones from the beginning.

This just means one thing......you play the character and know the ins and outs of the matchup. You playing MK helps you to have a complete understanding of the character and to know how they would react in every situation.

Several well known players picked up MK ONLY because they were sick of getting cp'ed with him(DSF,Omniswell off the top of my head).

It seems that most of the top level players play some form of MK, even if they don't want too.

 

[_voRg__]

i can beat lvl 9 MK computers with captain falcon lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nuff said

 

[Inui]

This just means one thing......you play the character and know the ins and outs of the matchup. You playing MK helps you to have a complete understanding of the character and to know how they would react in every situation.

Several well known players picked up MK ONLY because they were sick of getting cp'ed with him(DSF,Omniswell off the top of my head).

It seems that most of the top level players play some form of MK, even if they don't want too.

I didn't use Meta Knight until very recently. My wins over teh_spamerer and dmbrandon go back to May and June. I NEVER lost to scrub MKs and always wrecked them.

You're right. I knew the match-up and was good enough to win it. How come everyone else can't just...not suck?

I picked up MK because he's more fun than Marth, Snake, Dedede, and Pit. That's actually the real reason. I don't even think MK is firmly the best character. I believe Snake and Olimar easily contest that.

Okay first off, you're claiming that a large percentage of MK wins come from M2K wins. You combine this by saying that there aren't even that many MKs where you are, fine.

There are a lot of MKs where I am. I never said there weren't a lot. They just don't get to take 1st besides our two God Tier MKs because they lose to stuff like G-regulate's Snake, Azen's Lucario, Bum's DK, Atomsk's Dedede, etc. We have players that stop MK.

So the end result is MK, despite not being that proliferated, gets a lot of wins because of M2K. Okay, fine. Let's take these to be truths.

Then you also claim that Snake can consistently beat MK and is thus a counter/soft counter. Whatevs, for the sake of argument, I'll say "soft-counter" and take it to be true.

This means that Snake actually can beat MK relatively consistently + we know that Snake does very well against lots and lots of characters.

Then you say that Snakes don't dominate because there aren't that many good Snakes, although there are plenty of good Snakes, more than enough and definitely in regions where M2K isn't. Whatevs, let's also take this to be true.

Who are these really good Snakes outside of Atlantic North, FL, and CA? AfroThundah wins most of the time in FL with Snake and DSF wins most of the time in CA with Snake...and 2nd/3rd is apparently a Dedede and Wario. They are either not as good as the MK players or don't know the match-up.

Then by your previous assertion that just a small amount of MKs can skew the percentages that much should also mean that a small amount of Snakes (which apparently beat MKs + do extremely well against the majority of the cast) should also be skewing the numbers, at least to a comparable level that MK is doing. The number of good Snakes available shouldn't be relevant because you yourself claim that the entire MK percentage is skewed by M2K alone and there are good Snakes in regions without M2K affecting their placings there.

Something isn't adding up, because this obviously is not the case, and this is based entirely on things you have said. Your argument is taking itself apart.

You're blowing what I said way out of proportion. A lot of MK's points come from Mew2King winning huge tournaments and teh_spamerer dominating NJ, but that's obviously not everything. Other regions apparently struggle to beat MK and don't have Snakes that you would consider top national class (by that I mean DSF/Cort/Afro/G-reg level). My condolences to those regions. Get better with Snake and learn the match-up more with whatever other characters that do relatively well, like Diddy.

 

[Mortimer]

There are a lot of MKs where I am. I never said there weren't a lot. They just don't get to take 1st besides our two God Tier MKs beside they lose to stuff like G-regulate's Snake, Azen's Lucario, Bum's DK, Atomsk's Dedede, etc. We have players that stop MK.

You get rid of the God-Tier MK player ratings, and it diversifies your tourney results with your Top-Tier non-MK player ratings.

 

[Gindler]

Lose to a scrub MK? that should never happen.

Scrub ROBs though, oh the camping gets old.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Uh.... I don't think you know his Counterpick stages.... Plus you cant Release to Uair him in the first place.

Typo, I meant Usmash.

 

[Inui]

You get rid of the God-Tier MK player ratings, and it diversifies your tourney results with your Top-Tier non-MK player ratings.

Mew2King and teh_spamerer would still take 1st with Snake/Dedede anyways. It wouldn't change anything. Lee still won the New Orleans tournament without MK. Mew2King is better than everyone in Atlantic North and teh_spamerer is the second best in NJ after him. They'd win anyways.

Here is a semi-recent tournament.

1. Mew2King (Meta Knight)
2. teh_spamerer (Meta Knight)
3. Atomsk (Dedede/Olimar)
4. RyokoYaksa (Zelda/Sheik)
5. Inui (Marth/Snake)
5. Keitaro (Falco)

That would turn into:

1. Mew2King (Dedede/Snake)
2. teh_spamerer (Snake/Falco)
3. Atomsk (Dedede/Olimar)
4. RyokoYaksa (Zelda/Sheik)
5. Inui (Marth/Snake)
5. Keitaro (Falco)

Wow, what a difference!

Not seeing an MK in top placings gives people that much excitement even if the same people would win anyways?

 

[asob4]

DSF has been winning nearly all cali tourney's with MK, no snake
rarely does he go snake anymore and he agrees MK should be banned

just throwing that out there

 

[ShadowLink84]

In short, the SS theory WORKS if you assume that people are overrating the advantageous matchups for MK--if he does in fact end up having more neutral matchups, and maybe some more disadvantaged ones (as people say Yoshi (low tier!?), Snake, Olimar, Falco), the same exaggerations can be applied to the next best char, the SS theory holds.

*facepalm*
Again it does not. If MK gets banned no one else would because again, MK is CLEARLY the best in amtchups.
Yoshi has no advantage. neutral at best.
Snake has no advantage. Again neutral
Olimar has no advantage, no one supports such an idea except for Inui and M2K and thats purely assuming that the other player facing the Olimar is not as skilled in approaching.
Falco isn't neutral because he gets zoned. its a soft counter.

So no, no one has been exaggerating because all of those were proposed as counters but over time, as the metagame developed, were proven to be either neutral or a soft advantage for MK.

Let alone that again, the SS theory does NOT work because even if MK had those counters, his matchups would still be better than everyone else's overall.

In other words, ITS TOO EARLY, and while people are caught up in OS's hype, it is most definitely NOT the right time to ban him. To paraphrase Caesar, beware charismatic leaders, because they can convince otherwise sane people to go along with unreasonable ideas.

Does not the same go for M2K?
People get caught up in M2K==best player=god despite the fact that his arguments are poor.

While I do agree that it is too early to be arguing for or against a ban, I do believe that we should continue to analyze both arguments and compare them to the facts provided.

 

[M.K]

Mew2King and teh_spamerer would still take 1st with Snake/Dedede anyways. It wouldn't change anything. Lee still won the New Orleans tournament without MK. Mew2King is better than everyone in Atlantic North and teh_spamerer is the second best in NJ after him. They'd win anyways.

Here is a semi-recent tournament.

1. Mew2King (Meta Knight)
2. teh_spamerer (Meta Knight)
3. Atomsk (Dedede/Olimar)
4. RyokoYaksa (Zelda/Sheik)
5. Inui (Marth/Snake)
5. Keitaro (Falco)

That would turn into:

1. Mew2King (Dedede/Snake)
2. teh_spamerer (Snake/Falco)
3. Atomsk (Dedede/Olimar)
4. RyokoYaksa (Zelda/Sheik)
5. Inui (Marth/Snake)
5. Keitaro (Falco)

Wow, what a difference!

Not seeing an MK in top placings gives people that much excitement even if the same people would win anyways?

Baseless assumptions are baseless. You have no clue what the metagame would transform into, so I don't understand where you get these assumptions from. We won't know the change until it happens.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You're right. I knew the match-up and was good enough to win it. How come everyone else can't just...not suck?

Ugh again I hate bad arguments like these.
basically because everyone else is not like m2k it automatically means MK should not be banned?
Again stop bringing up skill level it has no place in the argument.

There are a lot of MKs where I am. I never said there weren't a lot. They just don't get to take 1st besides our two God Tier MKs because they lose to stuff like G-regulate's Snake, Azen's Lucario, Bum's DK, Atomsk's Dedede, etc. We have players that stop MK.

you are in ATlantic North yes?
MK takes wins more than half of the wins there.
Sooo yeah.
AN has the 2nd highest amount of MK win percentage with I think the south west having the highest.

You're blowing what I said way out of proportion. A lot of MK's points come from Mew2King winning huge tournaments and teh_spamerer dominating NJ, but that's obviously not everything. Other regions apparently struggle to beat MK and don't have Snakes that you would consider top national class (by that I mean DSF/Cort/Afro/G-reg level). My condolences to those regions. Get better with Snake and learn the match-up more with whatever other characters that do relatively well, like Diddy.

Agaijn tournament data says otherwise.
it isn't just M2K and teh spamerer dominating NJ.
MK makes up more than half of the tournament wins in An and if you look at the tournament results, m2k and teh_spamerer are the most consistent but they do not make up the majority of wins.

Mew2King and teh_spamerer would still take 1st with Snake/Dedede anyways. It wouldn't change anything. Lee still won the New Orleans tournament without MK. Mew2King is better than everyone in Atlantic North and teh_spamerer is the second best in NJ after him. They'd win anyways.

Bad argument. Again the behavior of the top players does not matter.
The top 3 players in SF2 remained the top 3 even after Akum was banned, this does not change the fact that Akuma is a ban worthy character.

All it meant is that the top 3 players are so good they overcome character boundaries.
That reflects on nothing concerning the character skill.

Also stop making up tournament results please.
Even if it were true this would not meana nything as to MK's bannability.

If the same 5 people are capable of placing in the exact same 5 places regardless of the character they are, then it means they are that much better than everyone else.

What matters most is the characters capabilities. While tournament data does help prove their capability, it does not necessarily mean that a character who wins 100% of all the tournaments is the best character.

Again stop bringing up player skill.

 

[Inui]

Snake has no advantage. Again neutral

Results over here, as well as the personal experiences of our Snake and MK players, strongly disagree with that.

If MK gets banned no one else would because again, MK is CLEARLY the best in amtchups.

Atomsk, teh_spamerer, and I would disagree with that.

teh_spamerer thinks Snake is the best character and has presented amazing arguments trying to prove that. Snake cripples the vast majority of the cast and doesn't really have any bad matches. I've come to realize that even Dedede isn't an issue if you play SUPER GAY. That's what players aren't doing. They need to turn on the CAMP to full power. Drop grenades everywhere, run away, take opportunistic shots with f-tilt and dash attack, etc. Yes! owned my Dedede and Shadow's Dedede recently by doing this. teh_spamerer was right about Snake not really having counter matches, imo.

Atomsk made a thread saying Olimar is the best character. I think he cripples lower tier characters worse than MK does.

I am open to both of their arguments.

Baseless assumptions are baseless. You have no clue what the metagame would transform into, so I don't understand where you get these assumptions from. We won't know the change until it happens.

It's not baseless. Mew2King has won tournaments with Dedede and Marth. teh_spamerer has won sets against top players with Snake.

Ugh again I hate bad arguments like these.
basically because everyone else is not like m2k it automatically means MK should not be banned?
Again stop bringing up skill level it has no place in the argument.

Yes, it has a place.

If you don't suck, you won't lose to scrubby MKs and you people wouldn't be so butt-hurt about this character. Just don't suck and you won't lose to them. It's that simple. I beat SUPERIOR players in the match-up with Marth.

you are in ATlantic North yes?
MK takes wins more than half of the wins there.
Sooo yeah.
AN has the 2nd highest amount of MK win percentage with I think the south west having the highest.

Pardon us for having the best player in the world living here. It's a tad too hard to stop him from winning, regardless of the character he uses. Then other stuff gets won by teh_spamerer.

I actually looked through the results in Ankoku's archive...and MK isn't taking 1st nearly as much as you claim in my region. In fact, MK taking 1st seems to a be rarity without teh_spamerer and Mew2King present. In fact, it's not only rare, but it simply doesn't exist besides Forte winning a single recent tournament (where he lost in winners to a SNAKE, btw).

Agaijn tournament data says otherwise.
it isn't just M2K and teh spamerer dominating NJ.
MK makes up more than half of the tournament wins in An and if you look at the tournament results, m2k and teh_spamerer are the most consistent but they do not make up the majority of wins.

Ankoku's point system is based on entry fee and entrant count, too. Mew2King is taking 1st at tournaments with 100+ entrants and teh_spamere recently won a tournament with 71 players. That's a gigantic chunk of points. If Mew2King used someone else, Meta Knight wouldn't have so many points.

Also stop making up tournament results please.

What? How am I making up results? Do you need to be linked to the threads? I can show you my huge archive again where basically the only MKs winning...are Mew2King and teh_spamerer.

 

[M.K]

Atomsk made a thread saying Olimar is the best character. I think he cripples lower tier characters worse than MK does..

Wow. That is a HORRID argument.
Not only did I use to main Olimar and I'm not some senseless fool, but he is so extraordinarily gimpable that it's insane to think he was the best in the game -_-

 

[ShadowLink84]

Results over here, as well as the personal experiences of our Snake and MK players, strongly disagree with that.

What you mean how MK won 6/13 tournaments?
yeah they really do agree.
and I don't care for personal experience. I want overall data whicha ll asys otherwise.

Atomsk, teh_spamerer, and I would disagree with that.

Thats nice.

teh_spamerer thinks Snake is the best character and has presented amazing arguments trying to prove that.

Where are they?

Snake cripples the vast majority of the cast and doesn't really have any bad matches.

Pikachu, ROB, Olimar, Wario, DDD ring a bell?
He has a disadvantage against all of those.
He doesn't cripple the majority of the cast because he doesn't go 70/30 against everyone.
most are 60/40 because of his weaknesses.

anecdotal evidence

inui I actually like you but you are seriously annoying me when you keep citing individual experiences.
If the overall data provided disagrees, more often than not you will be incorrect.

Atomsk made a thread saying Olimar is the best character. I think he cripples lower tier characters worse than MK does.

Opinion=/=fact
And I went to the Olimar boards and a number of the Olimars disagree with him.
Big deal he made a thread, most people do not agree with him and provided ell backed reasoning.

I am in agreement to both of their arguments.

there it sounds better.

WHY DID YOU EDIT!?

It's not baseless. Mew2King has won tournaments with Dedede and Marth. teh_spamerer has won sets against top players with Snake.

It is baseless.
Why?
Those two players are clearly better than everyone else in the tournament.
Again stop ignoring my argument.
Akuma in SF2 was banned.
yet the top 3 players remained the top 3 after the ban, it did not effect them because their capabilities made up for the characters.

Hence it is baseless because most of the data disagrees.

Stupidity

Again saying, lol get better you'll win is dumb.
Sonic can beat MK despite it being 80:20. That does not change the fact that sonic has an 80:20 disadvantage against MK.

All you're saying is, if you're that much more skilled then you will win.
Well hey, if you were that much more skilled than the Akuma user, you would win, that didn't change the fact Akuma was banned did it?
Mind you I am not comparing Akuma to MK just the theory.

Pardon us for having the best player in the world living here. It's a tad too hard to stop him from winning, regardless of the character he uses. Then other stuff gets won by teh_spamerer.

Well thats tough. Again overall data disagrees. Having one or two peoplethat steps outside doesn't change anything.

I actually looked through the results in Ankoku's archive...and MK isn't taking 1st nearly as much as you claim in my region.

What dates are you looking at?

In fact, MK taking 1st seems to a be rarity without teh_spamerer and Mew2King present. In fact, it's not only rare, but it simply doesn't exist besides Forte winning a single recent tournament (where he lost in winners to a SNAKE, btw).

So in short, whenever m2k and teh_spamerer weren't around MK won?
Holy crap thats... not a surprise.
it is expected for people to win when those exceedingly good players are not around.
Thats a given.
yay forte lost to a Snake.
What does this mean?
Forte lost to a snake.
That doesn't change the fact that Mk still wins the majority of the tournaments in our area.

Ankoku's point system is based on entry fee and entrant count, too. Mew2King is taking 1st at tournaments with 100+ entrants and teh_spamere recently won a tournament with 71 players. That's a gigantic chunk of points. If Mew2King used someone else, Meta Knight wouldn't have so many points.

That is correct but then, when you look at the smaller tournaments which are much greater in amount, those make up for it and it turns out that m2k and teh_spamerer aren't skewing the result for MK to such a great degree.

Calculate the points yourself using Shaya's program.

What? How am I making up results? Do you need to be linked to the threads? I can show you my huge archive again where basically the only MKs winning...are Mew2King and teh_spamerer.

1. Mew2King (Meta Knight)
2. teh_spamerer (Meta Knight)
3. Atomsk (Dedede/Olimar)
4. RyokoYaksa (Zelda/Sheik)
5. Inui (Marth/Snake)
5. Keitaro (Falco)

That would turn into:

1. Mew2King (Dedede/Snake)
2. teh_spamerer (Snake/Falco)
3. Atomsk (Dedede/Olimar)
4. RyokoYaksa (Zelda/Sheik)
5. Inui (Marth/Snake)
5. Keitaro (Falco)

let me be clear, I meant don'
Let make up results on a metagame devoid of MK.

Now as for your archive. It shows that m2k and teh spamerer are the most consistent MK's. not the only MK's winning.

This is not a surprise because they are not as good and when you look at the results, those MK's that do not take 1st tend to be less skilled than those above them. You're looking at the results at face value.