Ken Neth
Smash Champion
M2K's real reasons for not wanting him banned come out lol.
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The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
Bowser King
Have It Your Way
Make lots of money and play a game you hate> make not as much and play a game you like
=/
If you could make the same amount (and the following of melee was just as big as brawl)
I'm sure he would go back.
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Bowser KingDRaGZ
Smash Champion
M2K's real reasons have been out for a very long time.
Ever since the whole "Brawl sucks" thing started, M2K has been one of those people that have said "I don't like Brawl, but I'm going to keep playing it so I can make money." He wants people to not ban Meta Knight so he can keep using him to **** at tournies.
It's not like he couldn't **** otherwise with another character, but he wants to keep Meta Knight just so he can make it even more concrete. He knows the advantages/lack of disadvantages of Meta Knight, he just won't admit that they are detrimental to the game at large.
Then perhaps an alternative form of income should be considered. I don't think playing vidja games at professional levels is too stable when it comes to using it as a source of your money.Make lots of money and play a game you hate > make not as much and play a game you like
=/
If you could make the same amount (and the following of melee was just as big as brawl)
I'm sure he would go back.
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Unless of course, M2K does have a job. Then...I don't know. Get a better job???
I'm saying this all because it seems that M2K is stimulated to play Brawl only for the money...
@Dragz: *applause*
It would also explain why he doesn't like getting recorded.
Get recorded = many MK mainers learn and copy style -> lots of mini-M2Ks running around winning tournaments...
Which would come down to two things:
1. Everyone goes MK because M2K's strategies work best (he is supposedly #1 afterall, right?)
2. MK gets banned, and M2K picks someone less gay as a main. Everyone except for MK mains get happy.
Then we can start arguing about other things because we have so much time on our hands, like Brawl+/Melee2.0, and tripping, and all that jazz.
Oh, and Olimar supposedly.
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
Sorry I haven't felt inclined to read all 502 pages of this thread to see every argument or reason someone has stated >_> Though, I bet I've read more of this mostly worthless, pointless thread than 90% of the people posting here.
I agree with you that he would **** with another character. He's the best for more reasons than the character he uses. But that IMO is why he shouldn't care about keeping MK as much as he does.
@ppl bashing M2K's reasons for playing brawl: Why the hell do YOU all go to tournies if not to make money? Why not just attend smashfests and flush $10 dollars down the toilet insteadm if you don't play to win/make money?
Also, I'm sure that if MK was banned, and M2K went back to DDD, he'd still be the best, and still win everytime. And goes what? All the former MK mains would pick up DDD as well, and then He'd get banned. And then M2K would pick up snake, and all the MK/DDD mains would pick up snake. And then snake would get banned.
Detractors call it tier whoring. I call it a smart move if your point is to win: use the best characters, and then go out and win. Even if Snake is a "bit* easier for someone to beat than MK, if a lot of people start using snake, the same thing will happen--because he's second best as is, and the more people using him/getting good with him, the more tournies will be won with snake, and the more people will start using snake.
Now some people say that this trend, the slippy slope, won't happen, but I don't see why. It's not like MK was unbeatable, even the pro-ban side dropped this argument. So banning him ISN'T going to solve the game, and it will start a slippy slope.
EDIT: @ people saying that he shouldn't hve any problem dropping MK--again you can't have a double standard. You can't be loyal to your character and assume that other people aren't attached to theirs. What if you were forced to drop the character you have fun playing, especially in a game that isn't much fun if you don't use that char? I use G&W (on the couple occasions I play), and if I was one day forced not to play him, I wouldn't find anyone else fun--I'm used Bowser, Wario, Link, Ness, MK, Marth, DDD, IC and got a good feel for the rest of the cast before deciding, and now that I have, it just would be fun to play w/o my main. Why can't M2K feel differently
Also, people saying that melee didn't have this trouble obviously are looking in retrospect, and ignoring the fact that although people at the time thought x char was best, it turned out that they weren't. So even though we know now that it's unclear who the best is, at ech individual time before, people assumed that shiek, marth, fow, falco, were the best, and whenever someone said, no maybe y is better/the same, it started fights...
The problem is that the influx of people for brawl has added new herdable sheep to be lead by people (OS/Lee or M2K) and the massive crush of idiots is overwhelming and exaggerating the issue.
Also, I'm sure that if MK was banned, and M2K went back to DDD, he'd still be the best, and still win everytime. And goes what? All the former MK mains would pick up DDD as well, and then He'd get banned. And then M2K would pick up snake, and all the MK/DDD mains would pick up snake. And then snake would get banned.
Detractors call it tier whoring. I call it a smart move if your point is to win: use the best characters, and then go out and win. Even if Snake is a "bit* easier for someone to beat than MK, if a lot of people start using snake, the same thing will happen--because he's second best as is, and the more people using him/getting good with him, the more tournies will be won with snake, and the more people will start using snake.
Now some people say that this trend, the slippy slope, won't happen, but I don't see why. It's not like MK was unbeatable, even the pro-ban side dropped this argument. So banning him ISN'T going to solve the game, and it will start a slippy slope.
EDIT: @ people saying that he shouldn't hve any problem dropping MK--again you can't have a double standard. You can't be loyal to your character and assume that other people aren't attached to theirs. What if you were forced to drop the character you have fun playing, especially in a game that isn't much fun if you don't use that char? I use G&W (on the couple occasions I play), and if I was one day forced not to play him, I wouldn't find anyone else fun--I'm used Bowser, Wario, Link, Ness, MK, Marth, DDD, IC and got a good feel for the rest of the cast before deciding, and now that I have, it just would be fun to play w/o my main. Why can't M2K feel differently
Also, people saying that melee didn't have this trouble obviously are looking in retrospect, and ignoring the fact that although people at the time thought x char was best, it turned out that they weren't. So even though we know now that it's unclear who the best is, at ech individual time before, people assumed that shiek, marth, fow, falco, were the best, and whenever someone said, no maybe y is better/the same, it started fights...
The problem is that the influx of people for brawl has added new herdable sheep to be lead by people (OS/Lee or M2K) and the massive crush of idiots is overwhelming and exaggerating the issue.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
MK=beatable.St. Viers;5681950 Also said:
Doesn't mean he is not worthy of being banned. Again slippery slope argument does not work at all because ther eis NOTHING to support such an argument at all.
No one from the proban side said MK was unbeatable unless they were a few dimes shy of a dollar.
It is being argued that MK does hit the too good in the way he damages the CP system, dominates the majority of the cast, and his dominance tournament wise.
While another character will take top, the extent to which they dominate won't be as great.
Which you don't have with MK.
He is CLEARLY superior to every other character in every other way.
I agree with the above. The issue is exaggerated but there is weight to the arguments on the pro-ban side.
While it is understandable that the game is young, it is rather odd that MK hasn't at all slowed despite the fact that people have centered their metagames around trying to beat MK.
Now this is understandable in the fact that MK has had more time to develop than Snake did, but even so, there should have been some decrease in the rate of his tournament winnings.
The slippery slope doesn't work because MK is special for 2 reasons: he can't get CPed, and he is relatively easy to use. Once you can get counterpicked, its better to have mains and secondaries again, and if its hard to use, you're going to be way behind everybody else in terms of skill. Finally, like what shadowlink said, MK dominates the metagame far more than any other character can, and that seals it. No other character is insanely hard/impossible to CP, easy to use, and dominates so hard.
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
I was bashing his reasons for not wanting MK banned, not his reasons for playing brawl. "it's ********" and "it's not fair" are not legitimate reasons for keeping a character. Crying like this is pathetic.
This is not going to happen. The reason people are picking up MK is because of his lack of bad match-ups, not because M2K mains him. DDD still has bad matchups and for that reason, not every MK main would go pick him up, nor would banning MK warrant banning DDD.
Why do those people who make the tournament worth winning go and throw away their $10? It's not like at the 150 man tournies 140 of them even have a real hope of it before things get started -- but they go anyway.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Uh... he also doesn't like being recorded mostly because he gets nervous and doesn't play very well under those conditions. I know where he's coming from 'cause I've played like **** sometimes whenever I was being recorded out of nervousness.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
From now on I am carrying a video camera with me.
I'll just place it right in front of my opponent so that he knows its recording the look on his face as he plays.
*giggle giggle*
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Don't look at this.
pastaboy
Smash Champion
if mk gets banned noddy else will get banned, thats a garuntee. you people obviously have no understanding to why he is actually getting the ban hammer
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Orlandu we keep this thread to keep more threads like this from flooding the board.
I'm not saying that ppl only main MK because of M2K. What I'm saying is that w/ MK banned, the other people, like M2K, are going to pick the next best character, and the same thing will happen, because when it comes down to it, this pro-ban argument is from people upset at losing to MK, led by very influential OS, who admitted that did this after losing to two MKs that (god forbid) were better than him. Because of this, people are going to start complaining about the next character they can't seem to beat (falco/olimar/DDD whose biggest top tier counters were MK), and may be spearheaded by another good player that simply lost to that character and is sore.
People haven't spent their time figuring out how to beat MK, they either are complaining and hope MK gets banned or they switch to MK--the exception being a few people, like the Yoshi representation in this thread--that are at least trying to come up with/make aware to the public ways to negate MK. In all their complaining, people like LeeHarris, OS, and the myriads of pro-ban people haven't shown that they are doing anything but hoping MK gets officially banned, or that their local area bans him' agrees to soft ban him--they are saying that no character has an advantage on him, and never will, even though people seem to be having success (Atomsk, Ninja_Link, Cort). If that were the case, Sheik would have been banned. Even though later people realized exactly how to DI out of previously thought to be infinate CGs, and how to punish her, at the beginning, she was dominating the same way. Maybe practice using grab releases, and camping rather than crossing your fingers and hoping for unique ATs that let you combos--this is a different game, and as EL points out, different game mechanics. That means that even though we have a lot of knowledge brought over from melee, NOT ALL OF IT IS USEFUL, nor applicable. The only character where the previous knowledge is applicable is MK, and because it applies to him, people are only trying to find counters though the old methods, where newer ideas, or less effective (in melee) ideas--like camping, or grab releasing, or using jumping or walking to adjust spacing are not looked into as much.
People haven't spent their time figuring out how to beat MK, they either are complaining and hope MK gets banned or they switch to MK--the exception being a few people, like the Yoshi representation in this thread--that are at least trying to come up with/make aware to the public ways to negate MK. In all their complaining, people like LeeHarris, OS, and the myriads of pro-ban people haven't shown that they are doing anything but hoping MK gets officially banned, or that their local area bans him' agrees to soft ban him--they are saying that no character has an advantage on him, and never will, even though people seem to be having success (Atomsk, Ninja_Link, Cort). If that were the case, Sheik would have been banned. Even though later people realized exactly how to DI out of previously thought to be infinate CGs, and how to punish her, at the beginning, she was dominating the same way. Maybe practice using grab releases, and camping rather than crossing your fingers and hoping for unique ATs that let you combos--this is a different game, and as EL points out, different game mechanics. That means that even though we have a lot of knowledge brought over from melee, NOT ALL OF IT IS USEFUL, nor applicable. The only character where the previous knowledge is applicable is MK, and because it applies to him, people are only trying to find counters though the old methods, where newer ideas, or less effective (in melee) ideas--like camping, or grab releasing, or using jumping or walking to adjust spacing are not looked into as much.
Considering OS has been winning easy money with MK...if it were just upset over losing, he'd be keeping quiet and enjoying his $$$.
You realize how many times your entire post has been said and shot down, right? It's not even worth shooting down again.
I sense a fallacy theory coming around. :O AND WOULDN'T YOU KNOW IT, IT'S THE THEORY OF US BANNING MORE AFTER THIS BECAUSE THEY'LL BE TOP TIER!!! >_> Seriously, how many times do people say that the slippery slope fallacy DOES NOT WORK before it gets freaking jammed inside your naive brains. >_>
brinboy789
Smash Champion
*sniff* *sniff* i smell some ad homein...
I would reply to this... if I knew what an ad homein is. Care to enlighten me?
because when it comes down to it, this pro-ban argument is from people upset at losing to MK, led by very influential OS, who admitted that did this after losing to two MKs that (god forbid) were better than him
he admitted that it's why he started this campaign previously this thread<--and one of the good players in his area said as much as well.
Also, is it not true that w/o MK: DDD/Olimar/G&W lose some of their toughest matchups? If that's the case, that you are stuck with a bunch of characters that are neutral/slightly advantages matches, which is the same thing MK is--he goes pretty much even with DDD, Olimar, Snake, Diddy, according to M2K, Inui, and other very good players, all who happen to be against the MK ban, and some of whom don't main MK. Just because people aren't actually looking into the chars that may be neutral w/ MK doesn't mean that they aren't neutral--it means that we're stuck in the sheik dilema of early melee, where people just assumed she was uncounterable and the best char by far.
Also, I'm dumb, please counter my post point by point, and show how this has been resolved. Saying it's been covered before isn't good enough, because I wan't the one arguing then.
he admitted that it's why he started this campaign previously this thread<--and one of the good players in his area said as much as well.
Also, is it not true that w/o MK: DDD/Olimar/G&W lose some of their toughest matchups? If that's the case, that you are stuck with a bunch of characters that are neutral/slightly advantages matches, which is the same thing MK is--he goes pretty much even with DDD, Olimar, Snake, Diddy, according to M2K, Inui, and other very good players, all who happen to be against the MK ban, and some of whom don't main MK. Just because people aren't actually looking into the chars that may be neutral w/ MK doesn't mean that they aren't neutral--it means that we're stuck in the sheik dilema of early melee, where people just assumed she was uncounterable and the best char by far.
Also, I'm dumb, please counter my post point by point, and show how this has been resolved. Saying it's been covered before isn't good enough, because I wan't the one arguing then.
Where did I state that it was alright? I was actually arguing against the comparison between MK and Marth in the other thread. But that doesn't change the fact that his logic was flawed. That's all I had intended on bringing up.
And I do believe that if M2K&co primarily went snake, regardless of what character is the best, the current situation would be a lot different. But that's all speculation.
What do you mean why hasnt it happened yet? DSF picked up MK because of M2K didn't he? The general population tend to go for MK because he has been proven to be effective by said top players. If M2K went Yoshi and did just as well, would we have this discussion right now? I personally don't believe so. People are just now starting to step up their game facing MK. I think its too early. There aren't a lot of people arguing here that actually spend any of their time studying the matchup and would rather go by statistics, just because the truth is always underlying where the trends point. <sarcasm
edit: well, St.Viers just beat me to it~
edit2:
So we should be hasty about our decision even though every character's metagame hasn't been fleshed out as much as meta's hence rendering most of our current assumptions (no bad matchups, etc) possibly wrong? Don't be a tool.
In short, the SS theory WORKS if you assume that people are overrating the advantageous matchups for MK--if he does in fact end up having more neutral matchups, and maybe some more disadvantaged ones (as people say Yoshi (low tier!?), Snake, Olimar, Falco), the same exaggerations can be applied to the next best char, the SS theory holds.
In other words, ITS TOO EARLY, and while people are caught up in OS's hype, it is most definitely NOT the right time to ban him. To paraphrase Caesar, beware charismatic leaders, because they can convince otherwise sane people to go along with unreasonable ideas.
EDIT: an ad hominem attack is one where you attack the character of the person you are debating with rather than their ideas, in an effort to put the morality, and thus public acceptance of said poster, AND THE VALIDITY OF HIS POSTS into question.
For example, if people had not trashed Inui's image, or M2K's image, what they say would hold more weight, whereas people like LeeHarris, who deals out the trash talk, gets to demean the opposing sides ideas, while keeping OS's more subtle attacks from being consciously noticed. This is very clever use of smear politics, and use of ad hominem attacks--If I didn't think that their behavior was scummy and dishonrable, I'd be impressed ^_^
In other words, ITS TOO EARLY, and while people are caught up in OS's hype, it is most definitely NOT the right time to ban him. To paraphrase Caesar, beware charismatic leaders, because they can convince otherwise sane people to go along with unreasonable ideas.
EDIT: an ad hominem attack is one where you attack the character of the person you are debating with rather than their ideas, in an effort to put the morality, and thus public acceptance of said poster, AND THE VALIDITY OF HIS POSTS into question.
For example, if people had not trashed Inui's image, or M2K's image, what they say would hold more weight, whereas people like LeeHarris, who deals out the trash talk, gets to demean the opposing sides ideas, while keeping OS's more subtle attacks from being consciously noticed. This is very clever use of smear politics, and use of ad hominem attacks--If I didn't think that their behavior was scummy and dishonrable, I'd be impressed ^_^
Not really. I don't know much about DDD, but I'm sure he has his counters. Olimar doesn't do too well against wario apparently. G&W doesn't do too well against marth. Besides, 3 people dominating still allows counterpicking, variance of characters, and it's 3 people with no counterpicks, not 1.
DDD is pretty much even... but disadvantaged. Olimar is disadvantaged as of the moment despite M2K arguing against it and Olimar has bad match ups. Same applies for Snake and Diddy. Diddy is also 50-50 at best with MK on FD. Snake right now is 55-45 with MK. The problem is not that MK has even or better match ups, it's that he doesn't even HAVE even match ups.
Thing is, Melee was deep, with much more options than brawl. People didn't know how to apply things like Wavedashing and stuff then with a lot to figure out. Brawl doesn't have that benefit. Also, all people have been doing lately is trying to counter MK. The metagame is nearly centered upon MK. How can I beat Tornado? Who counters MK? How can I beat Shuttle loop? Tell that to Overswarm too. I heard he did a tiny tiny TINY bit of research on how to beat MK with rob. >_> No luck. =/ It's kind of hard when the character your trying to counter doesn't have much lag... >_<
Mkay. =/
Right now though... MK has no neutrals... Snake is 55-45, Falco is 55-45 and can't do much if MK just edgehogs. Olimar, as stated before, has bad match ups. Yoshi is 55-45. Also, Olimar is only bad if he has a PERFECT camp, which, as humans, is kind of hard to do. Heard he has a weakspot diagonally too, but not sure about that. =/
Caesar saying that, lol, so ironic. Also, it's too early? Soon it's going to be too late as people keep switching to metaknight and as his metagame advances faster and faster, other characters advance slower and slower.
Oh, thanks. I like ad hominems then. lol. Helpful for Mock Trial.
it's a homing ad of course.
Ad hominem is pretty much making a personal attack, usually in an attempt to discredit their argument.
example:
Person A thinks MK is better than Jigglypuff because MK has faster attacks and longer range.
Person A is a scrub who's never been to tourneys.
Person A's argument is invalid, because he's a scrub who's never been to a tournament.
Or more realistically,
Person B thinks MK shouldn't be banned.
Person B mains Metaknight.
Person B shouldn't be listened to, because he mains MK.
more examples of ad hominem:
"Mew2King shouldn't be listened to in the discussion of banning Metaknight, because he's just trying to defend his main and wouldn't be winning tournaments without it."
Also, appealing to authority is an example of ad hominem as well.
Just because someone may have a certain rank or are part of a certain group doesn't necessarily mean they're auto-right. Their claims should be under as much scrutiny as a scrub.
But MK is also being banned because he's easy to use(not directly), which leads to it being easier to bandwagon on him.
Also, its harder for us to misjudge other characters since their matchups were created when they were not feared or debated to be banned. MK is debated on while his match-ups are still forming, obviously leading to some misjudging. However, its likely that if we move onto another character, the (likely finalized) match-ups would be accurate as they were formed in a non-biased(as in, people didn't have as much to profit from certain matchups) environment.
I can't counter you point by point because all you've got is one big jumble that doesn't make sense.
You make it sound like three people (Snake/DDD/Olimar/G&W/Marth (You forgot two, so five really)) being at the top and all going even with each other is somehow the same amount of bad as only one being at the top (MK). That's not a point of any sort for keeping that one around, it's what Melee actually had. MK does not just "go even" with that many characters, at best for him he's tiny disadvantaged to Snake, even with Yoshi and maybe Olimar, and slightly advantaged vs. everyone else. And they all have stage CP's against them, they can't gain the same benefit against MK.
It's also not solely (Not necessarily even primarily) because of M2K that people are switching. If M2K mained Yoshi, people might try to switch to imitate him...and then get whipped because Yoshi is hard to use well. Then they'd switch to MK anyway because he's far easier and has a higher plateau (atm, but his still has room to grow too) than Yoshi.
It wasn't M2K playing MK that convinced people to switch to him though, it was when they started figuring out that MK could beat Snake. Guess what? M2K mained Dedede, not Snake, but before MK Snake was the most popular character. So your theory that who M2K mains makes everyone go for that character? Gone.
Nobody has "assumed" MK is uncounterable. People have been working for 3 months to bring him down using both stages and characters, and the best we've got is M2K's belief that Snake is 55:45 Snake's favor (Which is *heavily* debated and may still be neutral-slightly MK overall). Yoshi may be worse for MK but that's even more theory than Snake's matchup. And those two are the worst that's been found in months of focused play for ways to beat him. Sheik at least had stages that she didn't do nearly as well on.
Sorry that my points are kinda rambly, but like I said I found your post almost impossible to find the exact points in.
For those wondering, this would be ad hominem. This is saying that the people arguing for a ban have no weight to their argument because they suck at fighting Meta Knight, which is attacking their character rather than their argument.
This, on the other hand, is not ad hominem. It's saying that people are naive because they use a bad argument. Ad hominem would be saying that their argument is bad because they're naive.
brinboy789
Smash Champion
isnt ad homein what tenki said, deliberately attacking another person to discredit them?look @ last post on last page
"Ad hominem would be saying that their argument is bad because they're naive."
Insulting someone is not necessarily ad hominem, it's only if you're saying their point fails because of whatever you've said personally against them (ie, "MK isn't a turnip because you're stupid")
...that doesn't make insulting someone any better of a debating style.
He's saying I did not attack the person's reason via attacking their character, rather, attacking their character by first attacking their post. You see, what Tenki meant was an ad hominem is where you attack a persons character so we can discredit their argument. However, I discredited the argument first by saying it was already answered countless times before then I attacked the character because of the argument, thus not an ad hominem.
isn't that what happened in his first example?
big words, big words.
Back to MK.
*ad homingattack*
Except all those characters already have known counters beyond 55:45 against them, and can be stage counterpicked to make those disadvantages worse. The SS theory fails.
DDD's simply has a LOT of even matchups/slight advantages. With his infinate grab gone, DK does well, but the validity of banning his standing gran chain is questionable.
Except that he may have many more even matchups than people think, as evidenced by Ninja_Link, Snakee, Atomsk, and a slew of NA players, a region that has the best MKs.
except that because of out past experience with melee, we may be looking for the wrongs ways of going about brawl, and because MK is most similar to melee, people can easily pick him up, but former melee players can't as easy think of ways to counter him.
The metagame being centered around him is good--because of it, people have found out ways to counter the nado, have experimented with ways of countering him. If you bait a SL, you can punish him from behind. His sword doesn't beat out energy projectiles. A few months ago, people were clueless about countering the nado. Now they aren't. They thought that his f-tilt was safe--now we know that if he doesn't connect with the first hit, it isn't. We know SO MUCH now that we didn't before, and because of it people are doing better against him. Because of use of pivot grabs, which were rarely used in melee, and grab release to combo, which was unused in melee, people are finding ways to punish MK. By camping--a practice unreasonably frowned on by melee players (though used extensively in other fighting game and known as "zoning"), people are doing better. This all leads to the possibility that MK is not as advantageous as people first think.
A good analogy is going from playing go to playing "squares." Both use a board and grid, and use multicolor stones. You can only play one stone per move, alternate moves, and can't move stones in both games. Both games strongly require you to percieve good shapes, and seeing patterns that lead to those shapes helps you win. However, "squares is a MUCH simpler game," in terms of brainpower/thinking ahead.
But even though my brother is around 10Kyuu higher than me in go, probably more...there are some things he automatically discounts as moves in "squares," solely because of the similarity between the two different games[1]
[1] For example, in go, you can not play in a square that is surrounded on all four interesction points, and thus playing in the center of 3 existing stones is comitting suicide, or self atari. In squares, no such rule exists, and in fact sometimes by playing things in such a place will win you the game.
Mkay. =/[/QUOTE]
I haven't followed this thread and using the search function for two words kinda fails.
What's the SS theory?
I was putting it in a different context. But yes, that's exactly what ad hominem is. It's sometimes hard to determine cause and effect, but the personal insult needs to be the reason you dismiss their argument for it to be ad hominem.
Edit:
The Slippery Slope theory would be, if Meta Knight gets banned then other characters will be banned afterwards, because they'll become ban-worthy one at a time after Meta Knight.
Slippery Slope. If you ban MK you'll ban other characters after because they'll suddenly have no bad matchups or stages and everyone will just switch to them.
If everyone who said this could actually agree on which character it would be it might hold even a tiny bit of weight >.>
If you don't post three times as often as anyone else (So you get quoted just because you have so many chances to) or say something blatantly absolute or stupid, people tend to not reply because they can't contradict you.
LatexRhombus
Smash Journeyman
the real reason m2k doesn't want mk banned is he is probably afraid you'll ban him next 
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