The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[salaboB]

wait...what? This makes no sense whatsoever. It's one of two scenarios:

1. MK is released off stage. MK dies, Yoshi lives.

2. MK is just out of release kill range. Yoshi f-throws. MK dies, Yoshi lives.

3. There is no 3. MK dies, Yoshi lives.

I wasn't saying if Yoshi got the grab.

I was saying can Yoshi *get* the grabs more than MK can pressure him back to the edges and knock him off in return? Basically, I'm not entirely convinced it's a hard counter just because Yoshi can walk off cg MK on it, because Yoshi still must land that grab and MK has options to push Yoshi dangerously close to those edges.

If it were incredibly easy for Yoshi to grab him, it wouldn't be 50:50 normally.

 

[Mmac]

First, it's not been proven that the matchups actually play out that way -- that Yoshi can successfully get those walkoff cg's without getting pushed off the edge himself, enough to make those stages into hard counters.

Why would he kill himself Chaingrabbing? Can't he just.... Throw Them when he enters the bubble?

Second, even having one counter doesn't really stop MK from being such an excellent CP choice, it just means he goes from completely breaking the CP system to breaking it badly. This would be more damaging to him if it were a higher tier character that wouldn't face so many problems from other characters, but Yoshi has troubles with other high tiers and that makes his usefulness for breaking MK's chokehold slimmer -- an MK main is unlikely to decide they need to switch their mains because of Yoshi going neutral with them.

I was never trying to contest that MetaKnight wasn't a great Counterpick character though. I could make a post about Yoshi's Tier Position, but I will save it for later. His Matchups against Higher Tiered characters are actually not bad. He does good against Snake (0% Kills), Goes even with Dedede (But even I question it...), and has 0-Death combos on Falco. G&W, Marth, and Lucario are his

only Majorly bad Matchups, but besides that, he only has about 3-4 Soft Countered Matchups, then everything else is Neutral/Advantages. Mostly Neutrals though.

And it really is mostly a neutral when everything is worked out, if a tiny bit in Yoshi's favor due to having better than 60:40 on the walkoff stages (Again, unproven that it's better than that) so choosing MK is still not a *bad* idea. Demonstrate Yoshi goes 70:30 on the CPs and really manages 50:50 on the neutrals (Or find someone who is able to) and Yoshi can move into a soft counter for MK and might get some attention that will break his dominance. Until someone can actually pull it off in practice though, the thought of having a neutral from extremely skilled Yoshi's (Which for the majority of MKs means better than them and could win with many other characters anyway) is unlikely to do much to those who play MK and ignore the counterpicking system that everyone else must deal with.

What's all this talk about it being unproven and never put into practise? You act like it's some godsend nearly impossible to pull off death combo that is completely impractical. All you need to do is just Grab Him, then Release, Dash Grab, Release, Dash Grab to the Hill, Fthrow Chain 3 Times, Boom! He's Dead. Do you really need videos, results, and statistics just to prove that?

Infact... If you are only going to use him in Yoshi's Island Melee or Green Hill Zone, Anyone could use him as an counterpick! All you need to do is learn how to Pivot Grab, Learn how to Chaingrab up hills, and just learn basic gameplay. There you go, you have a MetaKnight Counter. You don't even have to put in effort learning how to recover because you usually don't have to. Anyone could do this, it's not like you have to put in months of effort.

The reason Yoshi's tier placement matters is it indicates there are other high tier characters that can steamroll Yoshi, so it doesn't require that much practice with said second to be able to handle this.

Already explained....

A relatively difficult to master, unpopular, mid-tier (Is that where he landed? Yoshi should be somewhere decent...) character is not going to create that much worry among those playing MK..

Having one character as the only counter to a character rarely works out. Especially if that one character is a low tier. All a meta main has to do is learn one of that low tier's terrible matchups and pick it up as a secondary. It does little to alleviate the overall dominance of the main problem character in the long run. You generally need a counter that has very few bad matchups as well if you expect people to actually pick up the play of that counter. (For example what would be the point of learning Yoshi, a terribly hard character to master, when I can simply master Metaknight in a comparitively short period of time? I can take into account most tourney goers will take my same attitude and my percentage chance of even running into my one bad matchup is slim. However if my one bad matchup was someone like, Marth, it would be way better for the metagame as Marth's lack of very bad matchups and tier placement, ensuring he will have plenty of representation, thus keeping any one character from being too dominant.)

And this is where I am going to get into his Tier Placement. He isn't terrible, nor he isn't bad. He's actually good. Very good! He could actually make it to High Tier. The main problem is that nobody cares about him, and there's really only one person using Yoshi in Major Completive tournaments. It also doesn't help how much negativity he had when Brawl was first released (Anyone remember the "Who is worse, Yoshi or Falcon?" Debates), and the negativity is still going on even today!

So Yoshi isn't Marth, who Cares? What is stopping anyone from secondaring him for the sole purpose of Counterpicking? He can still impact the Metagame and MetaKnight's dominance if people would actually care.

 

[Sharky]

With Yoshi having such a good grab as he does, it really shouldn't be hard at all to get in one grab per stock.

edit: lol, yoshi's double teaming this thread XD

 

[Mmac]

I wasn't saying if Yoshi got the grab.

I was saying can Yoshi *get* the grabs more than MK can pressure him back to the edges and knock him off in return? Basically, I'm not entirely convinced it's a hard counter just because Yoshi can walk off cg MK on it, because Yoshi still must land that grab and MK has options to push Yoshi dangerously close to those edges.

If it were incredibly easy for Yoshi to grab him, it wouldn't be 50:50 normally.

You probably never seen Yoshi's Pivot grab in your life... nor have you ever seen how easy it is to Chaingrab MetaKnight.

 

[DRaGZ]

Honestly guys...win a tournament with a Yoshi or at least place very high, and then we'll start talking again.

As of now, whether it can be done or not, the fact that it hasn't yet at a tourny makes it all theoretical rubbish.

 

[Sharky]

Take me to a tourney, then? Lift me out of my financial sinkhole so I can travel? Yoshi's tourney results are hampered by two major things: location, and quantity. As Mmac (who is literally stuck out in the middle of nowhere) said, most people still think he's as bad as falcon and, therefore, are unwilling to try him. The pros are already firmly grounded in their own characters, and aren't willing to try out Yoshi. The cycle continues... =$

edit: Besides, we're talking about one match-up, not his standings as a whole. Completely different subject there, bud.

 

[DRaGZ]

Not our fault.

 

[Mmac]

You really need tournament results for us to prove Yoshi can Chaingrab MetaKnight?

Seriously?

Not our fault.

If by "Our" as the general community, then yes, it is your fault that Yoshi has such a negative reputation....

 

[Sharky]

Yes it is, because nobody else dares to use him! >.>

 

[The Real Inferno]

We have a Yoshi main in our competitive scene. He chaingrabs Meta's just fine, back and forth all over the field....they still beat him most of the time. That isn't a be all, end all example, but the point is to get realistic about your character. I main ****ING RANDOM in competitive play and place quite well. However I'm not going to go around telling everyone Random is top tier and worth playing and people should pay more attention to it (somebody call the WAAAAAAAHmbulance). Gimpyfish once said that one of the greatest steps for him as playing Bowser in Melee was accepting that Bowser sucks. Unless you can verifiably prove Yoshi to be anything beyond bottom/low tier, even beginning to argue otherwise is beyond pointless. Bwett at least drags himself out there and puts up and even he'll tell you Yoshi/Meta is not a Yoshi favorable matchup.

As for Location of Yoshi players: No Johns.

It's also time to face the fact that unless Yoshi were able to absolutely slaughter Meta Knight, nobody is going to pick him up as a counterpick just for a very slight advantage. We're talking something like a 70/30 advantage or more. This goes back to the point that he's difficult to play and doesn't have many other uses beyond infiniting Wario. You can't change public opinion with a lot of talk about the matchup and no empiracle evidence to back it up.

 

[DRaGZ]

You really need tournament results for us to prove Yoshi can Chaingrab MetaKnight?

Seriously?



If by "Our" as the general community, then yes, it is your fault that Yoshi has such a negative reputation....

No, I need tournament results so that I know it actually works in real tournament setting.

Ice Climbers can 0-death anyone. Anyone. All they need is the grab. Theoretically, this at least puts them on par with Yoshi, since Yoshi has the better reach.

Ice Climbers don't win tournaments. There's a reason for that; the chaingrab does not make up for the fact that there are characters than can outdistance them (and don't tell me that they are crap without their chaingrabs, because they are potentially very difficult to even get near even without the chaingrab).

And yes, Yoshi has an unfairly negative reputation, but it doesn't help when Yoshi mains are being antagonistic about the issue to the point that they cannot believe certain faults other people point out. You're not always right, and Yoshi doesn't have an answer for everything. If he did, someone somewhere would've picked him up a long time ago and ***** a tournament with him. You're assuming people just chose the best characters when Brawl came out and neglected everyone else, but there wasn't even a consensus on who was good or not. If Yoshi really is good as he says, someone would've used him in a tournament by now and done at least somewhat successful with him.

I mean, I honestly would like to see you guys prove your point, but you can't really do it without showing tournament results. And maybe, just maybe, Yoshi isn't as good as you think he is.

 

[stingers]

If anything, DRaGZ just got my vote for the Smash Awards 2009's "Biggest Asshole" award.

Bravo.

 

[OverLade]

Marth has 3 release kills on Metaknight, but you don't see Marths ****** top level Metaknights at tournies. Marth obviously does really well against Metaknight, but if guaranteed kill setups were all it took, MK would not be dominant. A top level probably isn't going to get grabbed enough in a position by the edge for that kind of kill to be a factor, and Yoshi has a relatively slow grab. MK can camp on platforms and spam nado to avoid walk off grabs, and play defensively to avoid chaingrabs.

ON PAPER, it works, but is it practical, no.

 

[Scrubs]

Metaknight can avoid marth's release set ups

 

[Ulevo]

Metaknight can avoid marth's release set ups

No, he can't. Once he's grabbed, unless a platform interferes, Meta Knight will be hit by a jump canceled Dolphin Slash, tippered Fair, or Dancing Blade. The best Meta Knight can do is SDI out of a Dancing Blade, or DI the DS/Fair. But he cannot avoid it.

And for the record, DRaGZ is absolutely right. Yoshi, despite having a lower Tier placement than the majority of characters is not a down right terrible character, and has the potential to be of use. However, you can argue that use all day. Until you, the ones who support Yoshi, go out and make those theories a reality, all you're doing is typing word upon word on Smashboards that will never be seriously considered true. If you have something to prove, make it happen, don't just tell people what's what.

'tis the facts of life.

 

[Mew2King]

teh_spamerer is either 2nd or 3rd best in NJ, alongside Atomsk and after myself, and his sheik CONSISTENTLY gets grab release into that super long dashing double hit up smash when he grabs my metaknight, so he gets 29% per grab, and it apparantly kills at like 85 or something. Just because someone isn't good enough to do something doesn't mean it's not practical if you learn how to do it well.

 

[Mew2King]

Until you, the ones who support Yoshi, go out and make those theories a reality, all you're doing is typing word upon word on Smashboards that will never be seriously considered true. If you have something to prove, make it happen, don't just tell people what's what.

'tis the facts of life.

wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG

this is why people think marth is better than sheik, even though sheik is better. Just because a randomly skilled player with a different character comes in and "proves" something doesn't make the original statement false. Too many people do this.

 

[Overswarm]

wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG

this is why people think marth is better than sheik, even though sheik is better. Just because a randomly skilled player with a different character comes in and "proves" something doesn't make the original statement false. Too many people do this.

So you're saying regardless of tournament results, Metaknight is better? =P

 

[Mew2King]

you're ********, all you want is for you and everyone else to believe your own biased fantasies. Believe what you want, it doesn't make it true, and has nothing to do with the fact that guaranteed release grabs are guaranteed.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

M2K, why do you worry so much about MK being banned? Your from Jersey and Inui won't ban him in his tourney anyways.

 

[MASAHIROx]

hey M2K,

you're ********, all you want is for you and everyone else to believe your own biased fantasies. Believe what you want, it doesn't make it true

you just dont want him banned cuz you main him and have spent A LOT of wasted time in him.

selfish if you ask me =P

 

[Mew2King]

I'm a lot smarter than you when it has anything to do w/ smash, and you don't know OS like I do. He posts way too much w/ biased things to get people to get to his side, when they don't know the whole story. He keeps bringing up the same things repeatedly, leaving out details. Much of the back room arguments/drama comes from that stuff. I actually know what I'm talking about when it comes to smash, since I have a lot more experience in it than probably any of you. I did spend a lot of time on him by comparison to the other characters, but that doesn't change the fact people are going way overboard and exaggerating way too much when it comes to him. People don't even bother practicing the other characters because they just give up. Overall, the brawl community sucks compared to the melee community, but sadly it's bigger so it's inevitable to take part in it.

 

[Zankoku]

I actually know what I'm talking about when it comes to smash, since I have a lot more experience in it than probably any of you.

I really wouldn't recommend using this as a valid argument, seeing as how you also said:

Just because a randomly skilled player with a different character comes in and "proves" something doesn't make the original statement false. Too many people do this.

Yes, too many people do do this. Including, apparently, you.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm a lot smarter than you when it has anything to do w/ smash, and you don't know OS like I do. He posts way too much w/ biased things to get people to get to his side, when they don't know the whole story.

1. You can be the smartest smasher in the world for all anyone cares. That doesn't mean that you fully understand everything though.

2. OS does come off as bias, but that doesn't mean that what he says doesn't hold some glaring truth.

M2K, why do you worry so much about MK being banned? Your from Jersey and Inui won't ban him in his tourney anyways.

This.

I honestly don't see why you care. You'll win with Dedede anyways. Have you even played with anyone besides MK at tourneys recently?

And don't say that No MK = No Fun. That's subjectivism at its best. In that case, I could say that MK should be banned because MK = No Fun.

I really wouldn't recommend using this as a valid argument, seeing as how you also said...

Not to mention his silly little "ban ledge camping" thing.

 

[Mew2King]

yeah, I use MK because of Forte. In the early days of brawl, after I wanted to use another character than DDD, I saw that a newcomer named Forte was doing well and using MK. I decided to copy the stuff he does, make stuff of my own up, copy stuff Azen does, and then continue making stuff of my own up. If everyone did what I did that would suck, but it's not like I want to just destroy all the work I put into him for nothing. That's not fair, and that's ********. Also, I don't see how those 2 things relate. I do know a lot about what I'm talking about when it comes to smash, but no matter what release grabs are going to be guaranteed. Just because no one decided to use Jigglypuff really well before Mango doesn't mean Jiggs couldn't always do a simple combo or tech chase from 10% and then kill you. She doesn't change, the only thing that changes is more people realize what she can do.

 

[Mew2King]

1. You can be the smartest smasher in the world for all anyone cares. That doesn't mean that you fully understand anything though.

2. OS does come off as bias, but that doesn't mean that what he says doesn't hold some glaring truth.



This.

I honestly don't see why you care. You'll win with Dedede anyways. Have you even played with anyone besides MK at tourneys recently?

And don't say that No MK = No Fun. That's subjectivism at its best. In that case, I could say that MK should be banned because MK = No Fun.



Not to mention his silly little "ban ledge camping" thing.

I may not understand everything, but I do have much better understanding by comparison

If you knew more about how much bias and repetition OS has you wouldn't think that. It's like negative campaign ads where all you see is bad things about a president without seeing the good things, it is eventually going to make people (at least stupid people who don't do research on the whole subject) unfairly biased.

I use DDD occasionally in friendlies, but he's so much more boring. It's too much grab, bair, and fair. Sure I use every move, but it's just not as fun to me. To me MK is fun, since he can attack you a lot. DDD is less fun by comparison. That is 1 big reason.

I actually DON'T think he should be banned, even when I mained DDD. Even if I was never allowed to use MK but had to fight MKs, I wouldn't mind just using Snake or DDD against them, and have done well much in the past. I even beat chililns MK 2-0 in tourney with snake at CH4, despite that being the 2nd tourney match I ever used snake in before, and putting like 3 hours into the character. Snake does well vs MK. I think banning him is stupid, he is a fun character to play by comparison to his competition. Falco and DDD are too heavily reliant on CGs, camping, and bairs/dairs. To me it gets really boring. Motar slides with snake aren't that good on people anymore, and snake's game besides that is just camping. That gets boring. Attacking disadvantages me too much for me to want to often ever do it. Pit would be fun except that attack power deterioration HIGHLY encorages arrow camping, which is extremely boring to do, at least to me. Rob is too camping reliant. Olimar is too camping reliant. Not much is left but Diddy, but since I'm not good with projectile/glide tossing, I can't use him properly/well. You can think MK = no fun, but I have more fun fighting MK than I do vs a Falco or any projectile-camping-character or someone that just tries to be gay to you the whole time.

ledge camping is unfun. Plank won 2 tourney sets over eggm because of ledge camping, sheik vs falco. King and Forward also think ledge camping with jiggs is broken. GW can do it fine in brawl too. It is just unfun. Fighting people is fun, and for the exception of Tornado (which you just have to block), fighting MK is fun. Disagree if you want, but MK is much more fun to fight than Falco/projectilecampers to me, as well as to use.

 

[shanus]

1. You can be the smartest smasher in the world for all anyone cares. That doesn't mean that you fully understand everything though.

2. OS does come off as bias, but that doesn't mean that what he says doesn't hold some glaring truth.



This.

I honestly don't see why you care. You'll win with Dedede anyways. Have you even played with anyone besides MK at tourneys recently?

And don't say that No MK = No Fun. That's subjectivism at its best. In that case, I could say that MK should be banned because MK = No Fun.



Not to mention his silly little "ban ledge camping" thing.

So do you understand Brawl better then?

I hate the brawl the community compared to its former melee counterpart. People are so unwilling to deal with a challenge and develop other characters more before waving the banstick around like crazy. OS is incredibly biased, as is M2K, etcetc. Point in truth being, you can't deny that grab releases can be retardedly good way to rock MK with sheik, yet almost no one plays with her because they don't even know about it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

m2k, you didn't answer my question: Why do you care so much about the ban, if it propably won't even affect you?

 

[Mew2King]

1) i actually don't think it's the right thing to do

2) i have used MK like 95% of the time for the past few months whenever I play brawl, banning him will make that all for nothing

3) there is so much more to do with him than DDD, especially approaching options and fun things to do. To me, he is much more fun. I also like fighting him.

 

[Overswarm]

Because it will, Gheb.

 

[Espy Rose]

So do you understand Brawl better then?

I hate the brawl the community compared to its former melee counterpart. People are so unwilling to deal with a challenge and develop other characters more before waving the banstick around like crazy. OS is incredibly biased, as is M2K, etcetc. Point in truth being, you can't deny that grab releases can be retardedly good way to rock MK with sheik, yet almost no one plays with her because they don't even know about it.

If that's what was implicated, then it was by mistake. I know I don't fully understand Brawl better than M2K. Even if I did, I wouldn't rank, because I main Sonic, and I'm too stubborn to switch to MK.

*looks at M2K* Because playing as MK is NOT FUN. [/serious business]

Problem is, is that Sheik is still overall a poor choice over someone with superior qualities like MK.

Also, just in theory: MK is the reason the Brawl Community is acting out in this way.

Did the Melee community ever have a dispute like this back in the day?

Because it will, Gheb.

I lol'd. I can haz truth?

 

[Napilopez]

I may not understand everything, but I do have much better understanding by comparison

If you knew more about how much bias and repetition OS has you wouldn't think that. It's like negative campaign ads where all you see is bad things about a president without seeing the good things, it is eventually going to make people (at least stupid people who don't do research on the whole subject) unfairly biased.

I use DDD occasionally in friendlies, but he's so much more boring. It's too much grab, bair, and fair. Sure I use every move, but it's just not as fun to me. To me MK is fun, since he can attack you a lot. DDD is less fun by comparison. That is 1 big reason.

I actually DON'T think he should be banned, even when I mained DDD. Even if I was never allowed to use MK but had to fight MKs, I wouldn't mind just using Snake or DDD against them, and have done well much in the past. I even beat chililns MK 2-0 in tourney with snake at CH4, despite that being the 2nd tourney match I ever used snake in before, and putting like 3 hours into the character. Snake does well vs MK. I think banning him is stupid, he is a fun character to play by comparison to his competition. Falco and DDD are too heavily reliant on CGs, camping, and bairs/dairs. To me it gets really boring. Motar slides with snake aren't that good on people anymore, and snake's game besides that is just camping. That gets boring. Attacking disadvantages me too much for me to want to often ever do it. Pit would be fun except that attack power deterioration HIGHLY encorages arrow camping, which is extremely boring to do, at least to me. Rob is too camping reliant. Olimar is too camping reliant. Not much is left but Diddy, but since I'm not good with projectile/glide tossing, I can't use him properly/well. You can think MK = no fun, but I have more fun fighting MK than I do vs a Falco or any projectile-camping-character or someone that just tries to be gay to you the whole time.

ledge camping is unfun. Plank won 2 tourney sets over eggm because of ledge camping, sheik vs falco. King and Forward also think ledge camping with jiggs is broken. GW can do it fine in brawl too. It is just unfun. Fighting people is fun, and for the exception of Tornado (which you just have to block), fighting MK is fun. Disagree if you want, but MK is much more fun to fight than Falco/projectilecampers to me, as well as to use.

Have you considered picking up Sonic? He's tons of fun XD. =P

I agree with most of this though, although I don't mind the ledge camping, maybe because I main Sonic, lol.


Also, the ban would affect M2K if he goes out of his region for a tourney...

Anyways, I don't see the argument of MK being in the game having to do with the game being more or less fun. Thats just opinion. Its an important individual factor, but I don't think it should come into the ban argument at all. I do understand the points about time put into a character.

I main Sonic and I've never had much trouble against MKs.... Just saying. Of course I'm just one player, but yea.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You didn't understand me: Even if MK gets banned, Inui will allow him in his tourneys. And you both are from Jersey, right?

 

[CR4SH]

That's not fair, and that's ********.

PLEASE please please, keep this in mind when debating MK. Everyone seems to think things like "fair" and "********" are irrelevant. But they just aren't. They aren't.

Everyone here, even the king of the anti-ban camp, knows it, even if they don't want to admit it.

 

[Inui]

The game is only half a year old. It's way too young to ban anything but blatantly gamebreaking and ******** things, like items and New Pork City. The side arguing for a ban should at least wait a few more months and see if other regions besides Atlantic North finally start getting good Snakes and other top tiers that can beat the Meta Knights. If Meta Knight still never loses outside of Atlantic North, the be my guest and ban him. I won't ever ban him at my events.

 

[Ulevo]

If that's what was implicated, then it was by mistake. I know I don't fully understand Brawl better than M2K. Even if I did, I wouldn't rank, because I main Sonic, and I'm too stubborn to switch to MK.

*looks at M2K* Because playing as MK is NOT FUN. [/serious business]

Problem is, is that Sheik is still overall a poor choice over someone with superior qualities like MK.

Also, just in theory: MK is the reason the Brawl Community is acting out in this way.

Did the Melee community ever have a dispute like this back in the day?



I lol'd. I can haz truth?

Meta Knight is not the reason why everyone is acting like brats.

People have acted completely immature in the past over things like the Ice Climbers, Dedede, Snake, Release Grab Infinites... There were times when people could not get over the fact that L Canceling and Hit Stun were removed, or how tripping was included. During the early stages of Brawls lifespan, people whined about how overpowering camping was, and were ready to drop Brawl because they believed that strategies wouldn't develop to combat the playstyle.

We just have an overall very irresponsible and lackluster community. This is a phase like all the previous ones, and once again, rather than dealing with it properly and maturely (OS, LeeHarris, et cetera), we've resorted down to mere bickering and slander. It's rather pathetic.

 

[Overswarm]

Actually, I did deal with it properly. Nothing happened, and the minor things that did happen happened at a snails pace.

Now I'm a propaganda machine and have taken the fight to the public and have gotten things rolling!

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Meta Knight is not the reason why everyone is acting like brats.

People have acted completely immature in the past over things like the Ice Climbers, Dedede, Snake, Release Grab Infinites... There were times when people could not get over the fact that L Canceling and Hit Stun were removed, or how tripping was included. During the early stages of Brawls lifespan, people whined about how overpowering camping was, and were ready to drop Brawl because they believed that strategies wouldn't develop to combat the playstyle.

We just have an overall very irresponsible and lackluster community. This is a phase like all the previous ones, and once again, rather than dealing with it properly and maturely (OS, LeeHarris, et cetera), we've resorted down to mere bickering and slander. It's rather pathetic.

progress is slow, it always has been with Brawl, this is just another one of those things that needs a little more time before we can make a solid, unbiased decision on

 

[Ulevo]

Actually, I did deal with it properly. Nothing happened, and the minor things that did happen happened at a snails pace.

Now I'm a propaganda machine and have taken the fight to the public and have gotten things rolling!

The irony in this statement is overwhelming.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Take me to a tourney, then? Lift me out of my financial sinkhole so I can travel? Yoshi's tourney results are hampered by two major things: location, and quantity. As Mmac (who is literally stuck out in the middle of nowhere) said, most people still think he's as bad as falcon and, therefore, are unwilling to try him. The pros are already firmly grounded in their own characters, and aren't willing to try out Yoshi. The cycle continues... =$

edit: Besides, we're talking about one match-up, not his standings as a whole. Completely different subject there, bud.

dude you live in syracuse, theres a tourney (with a really good yoshi player attending) everyother week right over in rochester. dont give me this bull like you cant get there. man up and stop johning.

1) i actually don't think it's the right thing to do

2) i have used MK like 95% of the time for the past few months whenever I play brawl, banning him will make that all for nothing

3) there is so much more to do with him than DDD, especially approaching options and fun things to do. To me, he is much more fun. I also like fighting him.

1. as of right now, there are more people that think that it IS the right thing to do.
2. thats very selfish of you, you are essentially saying that you want to ensure that you have fun, even at the expence of your fellow tourney goers...
3. no johns, get better and make up fun things to do with him. thats what you do right? you take characters and think about off the wall things for them and make them better than people thought that they could be, right? do it with D3 then.

The game is only half a year old. It's way too young to ban anything but blatantly gamebreaking and ******** things, like items and New Pork City. The side arguing for a ban should at least wait a few more months and see if other regions besides Atlantic North finally start getting good Snakes and other top tiers that can beat the Meta Knights. If Meta Knight still never loses outside of Atlantic North, the be my guest and ban him. I won't ever ban him at my events.

if you go back to page 496, I personally killed that arguement, but since i know you wont ill restate it for you:

in the 8 years that we have had melee we are still argueing because we cant figure out who the best character in that game is...
we realised that MK was the best character in brawl after 4 MONTHS. that alone speaks to the speed at which we as a community are maturing this game. i believe that it was also stated earlier in this thread that essentially every broken, or borderline broken mechanic in every fighting game (including akuma, and VCs in SC3) was either banned, or decided not to be banned LESS THAN A YEAR AFTER ITS RELEASE.

also, why do you continue to make these rediculous claims that EC is so far ahead of everyone else when it comes to beating MK, when its been proven directly to you that not only does MK win OVER HALF of the tourneys in our region, but he wins more tourneys here than every other region of smash, except for one.