The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[The Real Inferno]

Because we're not sure if this is real or a fluke.

lol

I'll have the Grand Finals up on Youtube tonight or tomorrow; hope that helps prove the results are real.

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EDIT: This is Affinity; forgot to log out of Inferno's account.
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[Master Raven]

Those results look nice, however I'd like to see more of them first just to make sure it's this diversive.

 

[kodiak Vandal]

its pretty much gone beyond that point. snake's legitimacy as a good counterpick to MK goes totally out the window when playing against somebody at the top of the metagame. for the time being it seems the only way to maintain diversity in tournaments is to ban him. we'd see a big change in the tier lists too... since alot of characters were put in low positions partly b/c of their complete inability to challenge MK

 

[aeghrur]

lol

I'll have the Grand Finals up on Youtube tonight or tomorrow; hope that helps prove the results are real.

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EDIT: This is Affinity; forgot to log out of Inferno's account.
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Um, what I mean is, this tourny doesn't stand for all tournies. :O
We might have to wait a while and see if another character might take over as people in this thread theorize marth/snake will. >_>
Of course, I doubt we'd want to temp-ban metaknight that long, so yeah, hoping for diverse tournies in the upcoming banned-metaknight tournies. :D

 

[kodiak Vandal]

my last post was in response to iceman

 

[Tyser]

Penis Penis Penis Penis Penis

 

[DRaGZ]

If Meta Knight slowly became soft-banned through this social movement, I'll be a totally happy camper.

Honestly man, it'd be a blast.

 

[ftl]

Won't happen. At least some of the top players (M2K, probably others) are against it, and so would not voluntarily give up MK.

 

[Turbo Ether]

With MK banned, there's no way Snake becomes the best, with him supposedly being countered by multiple top/high tier characters.

 

[-Mars-]

G&W becomes the best and Marth moves to second, that's how I see it. With MK gone, the little 2D S***'s turtle becomes the best move in the game and Marth will have the best range in the game.

Seriously he just flat out needs to be banned, on allisbrawl ladder matches today the only characters I played all day were MK's, Snakes, and G&W's. If I took out the Snake or G&W player in the first match, they would switch to MK. Didn't matter that I was clearly better than the MK, they only needed three moves to beat me.

 

[magikguy]

marth wont move to second ;\

 

[fkacyan]

If its as diverse as this... Then why not ban him? This would push the meta game to its limits easy, and would make people happy, maybe even improve the overall aura of brawl itself?

Did the order of placements of people change?

I'm going to guess that for a decent proportion of people banning MK is merely a placebo effect - It'll just make you more happy to give your money to the same people every tourney.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Ike has more range than Marth maybe hell be 3rd :bigthumbu

Spoiler

jking

 

[Affinity]

Grand Finals Vids from the MK-Banned tournament:

10/18/08 MK-Banned Grand Finals Playlist

 

[Praxis]

We (Eastern WA) had a MK banned house tournament.

It went mostly well. One ROB player sadly ended up fighting one Link (Deva) and five Game & Watches, losing to the same Game & Watch (Valdens) twice. But there was only one G&W main- everyone just deliberately picked G&W against him because he always whines about how he can't fight G&W.

Other than that (I didn't fight a single G&W), it was great. The two MK mains there played G&W/Peach and Pikachu. Finals were G&W vs Toon Link, with the G&W picking Wolf for no reason for two of the three matches because the Toon Link (Chip) always beats his main. Chip's Toon Link won in a 3-0 victory.


The poor ROB that fought five G&W's would tell you otherwise (he seemed upset by it, he hates the matchup completely), but it was very diverse. My first time ever fighting a Pikachu in a tournament environment in fact. I'll post results, but I believe it was 1. Toon Link, 2. Game & Watch, 3. ROB.

 

[Sean²]

If you can't handle being beaten by a Mk without complaining or trying to issue a ban then maybe you should just not play the game and get real lives. If you do plan on still playing then quit complaining and get better.

Huh

The current way to get better is to play as Metaknight

where have you been

 

[da K.I.D.]

so lets get this straight, im going to guess that the last tourney from this area had something like 3-4 MKs in the top 8

but now you have
2 Foxs
a pokemon trainer
and a Lucas in the top 8 WTF
i forgot PT was even a character in this game he gets played so little

this looked like an incredibly fun adn diverse tourney.
i hope to see many more like it

@menardi
hes been living under his block of leet ic3
you know, because putting a 3 where an "e" should be automatically makes you super cool...

 

[Praxis]

G&W becomes the best and Marth moves to second, that's how I see it. With MK gone, the little 2D S***'s turtle becomes the best move in the game and Marth will have the best range in the game.

G&W is so freaking stupid, LOL.

But yeah, G&W becomes #1 for having the most advantageous matches in the game (3 bad matchups, 3 even matchups, everything else advantaged), and Marth ARGUABLY #2 for having the least amount of bad matchups (but lots of neutral). Dedede and Snake would also be arguable for #2.

 

[Lord Exor]

Meta Knight being banned would be the lulz event of the year. The notion of MK's stigma being exponentially increased by such an action makes me giddy with anticipation.

 

[AlphaZealot]

AlphaZealot (Diddy Kong) versus Inui (Meta Knight) - Winners Finals Seasons Beating II games 1-2
AlphaZealot (Diddy Kong) versus Inui (MetaKnight) - Winners Finals Seasons Beatings III games 3-5

Now Consider:
Inui
- Experienced Brawl Tournament Player (multiple top placements, multiple states traveled too)
- Playing the best character in the game
- Playing the characer with no bad levels or matchups not in his favor
AlphaZealot
- First tournament in 6 months
- Playing a character ranked around 10th on the tier list

Before viewing, based on tournament experience alone, regardless of character, Inui should have won 3-0.
Based strickly on a "MK has the advantage in every match up on every stage", Inui should have won 3-0.
Based on MK being a broken character, Inui should have won 3-0.

 

[lordXblade]

AZ just won this thread. If the Brawl community ever hopes to become half as strong as the Melee community, banning MK is the last thing you want to do.

Dedicate yourselves to finding effective ways to fight him. They exist, you just need to put the time and the effort into doing so.

 

[-Mars-]

This means that your a really good player.......nothing else.

 

[Napilopez]

This means that your a really good player.......nothing else.

No, it means that MK is beatable, even at high levels of competitive play.

 

[Steeler]

**** yeah yall, pokemon trainer can place top 8 in a real tournament.

...without meta knight. >_>

 

[DRaGZ]

What I'd really like to see is how AZ vs. Inui turns out if AZ continually goes to tournaments and is on the same "tournament warmed-up status" as Inui.

My guess is the results would be almost exactly the same.

Also, AZ not going to tournaments does not mean he's not been gaining experience against Meta Knights. Hell, he's put up a challenge on All is Brawl in which he accepts challenges from Meta Knights online to test how tough they really are (which he has been winning in, btw).

 

[The Real Inferno]

Now that I have some free time (I was posting about the Wichita Bi-weekly Banned Meta tourney from earlier while things were still going here), I can give a more thorough overview of the event.

It's important to keep in mind our commuity does not solely support the ban or the not ban of Metaknight. The suggestion to ban Metaknight for one week came from the Metaknight mains who had won every Bi-weekly so far. They were willing to put themselves at a possible disadvantage for the sake of the argument and as the TO I had decided we would give it a try. This is not a permanant thing for us and the next bi-weekly will feature just as much Meta as before.

As for how things went. The atmosphere was very good, and people actually came from pretty far just to try this out. The general consensus almost seems to be that everything felt more -fun- without Metaknight there. It's also worth noting that some of the Top 8 consisted of characters that get -wrecked- by Meta. I also saw a great deal of diversity I'm not used ot seeing in tournaments. I actually got to -play- ROB vs Link and Pikachu vs Link. I got to play Toon Link dittos, and Zelda vs Pit. It was a lesson in matchups I was far from familiar with, but I learned things. That's what I found to be most important. I learned tricks and techniques for matchups I've never had before. I think it should be quite interesting to see how other Meta-less tourneys turn out in the future.

In the meanwhile I recommend you don't slack off in your training against Metaknight as at any legit, large tourney you should expect to see a good number of them just the same.

 

[lordXblade]

We also had DSF beating Plank at Axis with Snake. There is one character in the history of competitive fighting games in the states that has been banned, ST Akuma, who was a character specifically designed to completely outclass the rest of the cast by a large margin. MK is not ST Akuma; MK can be beaten, especially if the person playing against him knows every little nuance of that match-up.

This is how fighting game communities grow and become truly great. When ridiculous **** gets discovered, people hungry to win find ways to fight it. Melee became one of the strongest communities in the world because of all the top players dedicating so much time to their characters and their play-styles. Though I personally prefer Melee over Brawl, I would hate to see Brawl become a ban-happy scrub fest, which, if the Pro-Ban people have their way, it will be.

 

[Browny]

All those videos prove is if MK doesnt use tornado as often as they should, he can be beaten. show us some footage of diddy beating an MK player whos playing to win please.

 

[NeoCrono]

**** yeah yall, pokemon trainer can place top 8 in a real tournament.

...without meta knight. >_>

With MK gone, the whole cast becomes playable.

 

[Steeler]

With MK gone, the whole cast becomes playable.

Ganondorf? Jigglypuff? CAPTAIN FALCON??

 

[NeoCrono]

Ganondorf? Jigglypuff? CAPTAIN FALCON??

Yep, even Chuck Norris!!!!!!!!!!

 

[adumbrodeus]

clearly its fake, otherwise marth would have taken all top 8 positions, if theories in this thread are to be believed

....

uhhh, no.

Best overall result =/= taking every slot.

Nobody even pretended he'd have the level of dominance that MK has.

Give it time.

 

[Napilopez]

All those videos prove is if MK doesnt use tornado as often as they should, he can be beaten. show us some footage of diddy beating an MK player whos playing to win please.

Actually DJ, I really doubt it would be smart for MK to spam tornado in this matchup, because banana peel destroys tornado... so yea. Spamming tornado would put stuff in Diddys favor. He isn't even large enough to be caught in it as easily as say... DK. If MK wanted to play to win, then he would have to stop with the spamminess in this matchup.

 

[tuestresfat]

Why don't we make a tournament out of this

Since there are those who think MK should stay and some say he should go, get the top 10 players on each side of the opinion and have them battle it out. Those who think he should stay has to use a character other than MK and those who think he should go will main MK. Just to prove whether or not MK can be beaten on a high level.


Just a thought

 

[Browny]

Actually DJ, I really doubt it would be smart for MK to spam tornado in this matchup, because banana peel destroys tornado... so yea. Spamming tornado would put stuff in Diddys favor. He isn't even large enough to be caught in it as easily as say... DK. If MK wanted to play to win, then he would have to stop with the spamminess in this matchup.

you know what else destroys tornado? falcos laser/reflector

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=r8xzjv3uzvU

doesnt make a difference when you can never hit him with it.

 

[Throwback]

AlphaZealot (Diddy Kong) versus Inui (Meta Knight) - Winners Finals Seasons Beating II games 1-2
AlphaZealot (Diddy Kong) versus Inui (MetaKnight) - Winners Finals Seasons Beatings III games 3-5

Now Consider:
Inui
- Experienced Brawl Tournament Player (multiple top placements, multiple states traveled too)
- Playing the best character in the game
- Playing the characer with no bad levels or matchups not in his favor
AlphaZealot
- First tournament in 6 months
- Playing a character ranked around 10th on the tier list

Before viewing, based on tournament experience alone, regardless of character, Inui should have won 3-0.
Based strickly on a "MK has the advantage in every match up on every stage", Inui should have won 3-0.
Based on MK being a broken character, Inui should have won 3-0.

it's worth pointing out to those that didn't watch the whole thing - MK(inui) wins 3-2

 

[DanGR]

1 JesiahTEG (Snake/MK)
2 Pika Pika (Pikachu/MK)
3 Asylum (Snake/MK)
4 Silverspawn (MK/ROB/D3)
5 Xiivi (MK/Snake)
5 Ranjiz (DK/Mario)
7 Goggles (Lucario/Sonic/Fox)
7 Owna (MK/Sheik)
http://www.arena51.com/nuke/modules....r=asc&start=45

lulz

 

[Luigi player]

it's worth pointing out to those that didn't watch the whole thing - MK(inui) wins 3-2

Yeah, but it was REALLY close. Alphazealot could've won. At the end it was just "who will get that last hit first".

And in the last match AZ lost one life without doing any damage. That sucked, and he probably did make some stupid mistakes, but he could've still won.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Also, AZ not going to tournaments does not mean he's not been gaining experience against Meta Knights. Hell, he's put up a challenge on All is Brawl in which he accepts challenges from Meta Knights online to test how tough they really are (which he has been winning in, btw).

I'll just answer this with:

Against MK? Didn't we already go over this? Diddy's only advantage over MK is his ability to stop MK's easy approaches. If the MK player knows the matchup, he can just out camp Diddy and punish him. You have never beaten a good MK in person (please don't try to tell me online counts for ANYTHING, bananas **** online), Ninjalink did good in ONE tournament against MK, and yet I can tell you tons of personal experiences where either my MK or someone else's has destroyed a good Diddy.

AZ, you don't even play in tournaments. You say it's out of fear or that we just don't have enough experience against MK, but the tournament players say otherwise. Until you have to deal with the same problems we do, I really don't feel like you will have accurate statements.

According to LeeHarris, I should have been 3-0'd.

Online play is meaningless when it goes against banning MK, but it helps the ban MK case all of a sudden it has meaning. Hypocritical.

1 JesiahTEG (Snake/MK)
2 Pika Pika (Pikachu/MK)
3 Asylum (Snake/MK)
4 Silverspawn (MK/ROB/D3)
5 Xiivi (MK/Snake)
5 Ranjiz (DK/Mario)
7 Goggles (Lucario/Sonic/Fox)
7 Owna (MK/Sheik)
http://www.arena51.com/nuke/modules....r=asc&start=45

lulz

1: Inui ($469.00) - MetaKnight
2: Forward ($134.00) - Snake/Pit
3: AlphaZealot ($67.00) - Diddy Kong
4: Dook - Snake/Lucario
5: Joey Fury - Snake
5: Quivo - Toon Link
7: Coma - Diddy Kong
7: Black Guile - Marth

lulz

All those videos prove is if MK doesnt use tornado as often as they should, he can be beaten. show us some footage of diddy beating an MK player whos playing to win please.

Had Inui nado'd more he probably would have lost. Nado spam does not work against Diddy. Also, he beat Ninjalink 2-0 just two weeks ago, and NL is the best Diddy in the country. I'd take a gander he knows the match up and knows how to win.

 

[Praxis]

Online play is meaningless when it goes against banning MK, but it helps the ban MK case all of a sudden it has meaning. Hypocritical.

AZ, there's a problem with the MK challenge. I've looked through the results, and while you've beaten the MK's, I've never even heard their names before. Every time I run in to a name that I HAVE heard of before, they're listed as a win (for example, Ally). There's even one name in there I recognize as a Pokemon Trainer main that doesn't even play MK that lost to you. And I don't see one well known MK player in there.

I strongly suspect that most of the people challenging you are non-MK mains or really poor players. Ally beat you and doesn't even main MK. I'm not saying this proves anything, but rather the opposite; the sheer number of wins you have DOESN'T prove something because it's mostly bad players.